Slashdot Mirror
Lowell Observatory Pushes To Name an Asteroid "Trayvon"
Flash Modin writes "The observatory where Pluto was discovered is pushing to name an asteroid after a black teenager killed in a controversial confrontation in Florida last year. William Lowell Putnam III says his family has identified with the cause of African American rights, and thus an asteroid named after Trayvon Martin is perfectly appropriate. Putnam is the sole trustee of the observatory, which was founded by Percival Lowell during his search for canals on Mars. Astronomers at the observatory discovered the asteroid in 2000, but it has not been formally named. Putnam has already asked the Minor Planet Center once to designate the asteroid 'Trayvon,' but they told him the designation was 'premature.' Now that there's been a verdict, the observatory is reapplying in hopes the naming body will see things different."
injecting stupid political games into space has got to be a new low in astronomy
What if it then heads towards earth and could destroy our planet... But we intern build ships to fly and land on it and blow it up before it can? is that deja vu?
as long as they also name one Nicole Brown Simpson, I will go for it!
It's being followed by a pale asteroid named Zimmerman.
Table-ized A.I.
They're a bunch of L'il Rascals. Spanky, Alfalfa or Buckwheat would be way better. After all, wasn't Pluto, now no longer a planet, named after a Disney dog?
Yes, that is appropriate.
You've got to be kidding me. Lets name some stuff after Hitler too.
I don't really think naming celestial bodies after victims is a good idea.
Astronomers usually want to inspire hope, and looking up at things named after victims just doesn't seem right.
good job squandering your reputation. How about a peace prize while you are at it.
Makes you wonder what sort of mentality is controlling our science assets.
Blow it up!
The Official Site of 1337 Pwnage
Homer: That Timmy is a real hero!
Lisa: How do you mean, Dad?
Homer: Well, he fell down a well, and... he can't get out.
Lisa: How does that make him a hero?
Homer: Well, that's more than you did!
As long as another is named Zimmerman.
-Styopa
Yes, let's name all of the asteroids after attempted murders who got justice. Nothing political or controversial about that. I'm looking forward to smoking some illegal drugs, putting on bulky clothing and going out an shoplifting some stuff, then attacking the first cracker that gives me a dirty look. All the evidence of my motivation can be suppressed, and I'll get a space rock named after me too.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
have to boil down to your hatred of the black democrat that is fixing your crap with you bigoted losers?
of trying to stand your ground when dealing with bigoted stalkers that don't like it when their blacks get all uppity.
Trayvon Martin referred to his intended victim with the racists epithet, 'Creepy-Ass Cracker' before attacking him. George Zimmerman defended himself from the racist. Trayvon died because he was a racist thug on drugs.
Zimmerman should of laid down and taken his beating - cause that's what "keeping it real" means.
(I donated to zimmerman, because that could of been me)
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Is that the asteroid we're going to have to shoot down?
Putting aside the fact that Martin was a racist thug who got killed by someone in self defense...and that merely bringing his name and media/court situation up he was involved in that is currently still getting people across the country all pissed off at each other if its even discussed...and that this is probably just an attention-whore publicity act...and that I doubt he had much to do in the field of the sciences...what was I talking about? Oh, yeah let's name an asteroid after him. Whatever.
they obviously want to drum up support for shooting these things down.
i mean, planets have RIGHTS you know.
"William Lowell Putnam III says his family has identified with the cause of African American rights, and thus an asteroid named after Trayvon Martin is perfectly appropriate."
So a teenager whom a jury said was shot in self-defense (or there was no convincing evidence otherwise) is perfectly appropriate? Might as well name the asteroid "Al Sharpton".
How about a black scientist, like George Washington Carver? Or Mae Jemison or Guion Bluford, since this is space and asteroids we're talking about? Maybe a Rosa or a Frederick or a W.E.B. might have done a thing or two for civil rights and African Americans?
“As I see it, the social fairness showed to Trayvon Martin was very sadly lacking.”
Oh, I don't know, dominating the cable news cycle for months on end, hundreds of thousands of people taking selfies wearing hoodies and national black leaders/celebrities calling for a Double Jeopardy trial and/or punishment for George Zimmerman seems to show some kind of social backing.
Why don't we start enshrining every person that gets shot in a bar fight next?
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Name Asteroid after Trayvon. A few weeks later it collides with a smaller rock, that nudges it into a path such that it turns Miami into a large smoking hole in the ground.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Like - notherdedniger. that way many more people could identify with it and claim it was theirs
Since the article was simply to troll Slashdot... I'll add my two cents... The evidence shows that Trayvon was HIGH at the time he shoplifted his drug making supplies from the store and laid the beat down on a Hispanic individual. Trayvon was a bad apple and paid for his crime with his life. HE CHOSE THAT LIFE... It is unfortunate that he was a druggy and was on the fast track to jail, as he could have looked up to so many of the success black businessmen all around us... If they are going to name a space object after him, might I suggest the Unibomber instead...
When an unarmed black kid is being stalked by someone like you they are just supposed to say yes sir massa sir or you feel entitled to kill them for not knowing their place. I hope that you tell any women out there that if they are being stalked by someone like you that they should just lay back and enjoy it. Otherwise you'll have to kill them and claim you were just standing your ground.
Gezz... if someone told me that this was in "The Onion", I probably would have believed it.
It did in this case.
Nice Dodge.
Course, we're not discussing cars here right?
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Perhaps these two will get even bigger asteroids!
We can name some ice chunks in Saturn's belt after all of the black kids beating up and killing white people over Treyvon.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Universities, America.
You have completely lost my respect. It was pretty done for now. But I am certain you lack any integrity whatsoever at this point.
His sources were biased but weren't dishonest. You can be slanted while telling the truth, but then it's merely the "truth". Still, not a lie.
So now the Discovery Channel Telescope wants to get into TV race baiting politics and "entertainment"? Time to let them go full commercial or nonprofit, and defund any public monies.
1) Adding more to the national debt than even Monkey Boy Dubya did - Check
2) Failed to end wars in Iraq/Afghanistan despite campaign promise - Check
3) Didn't shut down Gitmo despite campaign promise - Check
4) Signed the extension to the warrantless wiretapping programming despite claiming to be against it before becoming president - Check
5) Enormously expanded the scope NSA surveillance over the general public - Check
6) Starting even more skirmishes in the Middle East that the US has no part in being in - Check
Still scapegoating the black democrat for everything I see. You must be one of those birthers that thinks that he has a time machine if you think you can blame him for stuff that occurred before he was even president. Still, nobody expect any sort of integrity in a bigots arguments. All they see is their own hate.
Everything in that list happened after dubyah left office. The GP chose carefully.
For as smart as most modern Astronomers appear to be, they can sure suggest some dumb ideas. Travyon? REALLY?
Discovered in 2000 at Lowell Observatory. How about naming it LO-2K?!? Was it really that difficult?
Regardless of the details of the case itself, it's pretty clear that Martin was a racist (he used racial insults against Caucasians). He does not deserve to have an asteroid named after him, and if the civil rights movement picks him as a symbol, it will only hurt their cause.
If these fools name some hapless piece of drifting interplanetary space debris "Trayvon" in their misguided attempt to glorify a dead, racist, drug-abusing, violent criminal thug, how long until there's an IGG funding drive for development of a "Zimmerman" missile to destroy it?
Kind of a long way to go (in multiple senses of the phrase) to get people interested in space again, isn't it?
I think these people have had far too much time on their hands for far too long.
"Space Madness" has obviously taken hold of this group. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZCiZpph9jo
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
If it gets named Trayvon, it will probably be the first asteroid ever shot down by NASA
i never get called for jury duty any more. I ALWAYS start right out by telling the judge i am a racist. - But, he says- this is a corporate patent case?
And I say - sure it is and i haven't even eaten yet, d'jou? 'cause like, i can't get rid of this brooklyn accent i got. Do you realize how stupid you have to be to get on a jury?
besides i like my justice from smith and wesson. only lawyers i ever liked.
So your response is substance-less ad homs? Yep, typical Obummer defender.
Care to address my points?
In related news, and in a fitting analogy, the Observatory is recommending that a newly identified black hole be named "Zimmerman."
you can't condemn martin's behavior, it only happened because martin was stalked by an asshole with a gun looking for trouble. zimmerman's behavior made the situation happen
how can you possibly look at martin's behavior and not at all consider zimmerman's behavior? zimmerman's behavior was the behavior that created the whole situation. then, when martin got upset with a creepy weirdo stalking him, as many of us would, the creep killed him
trayvon martin should be in jail for assault
but the reason he is dead is because some mouth breathing moron thinks he has a right to walk around with a gun and play cop on innocent civilians going about their business. that's the problem, that mentality, and that is the reason why an innocent man is dead. that we have laws that somehow support this disgusting behavior represents the downfall of this otherwise great nation
stand your ground laws, carry/ conceal laws: they have to go
and they will go
because one thing is true about wannabe tough guys: they look for trouble. there will be more trayvon martins. and eventually american society will wake up to the vile precedent this case represents. no civil society can tolerate wannabe tough guys walking around with a gun thinking they have a right to profile and stalk innocent people going about their normal business. trayvon martin is dead only because zimmerman had a hard on for confrontation and a gun
losers like zimmerman, empowered, represent nothing but cases of senseless pointless death in general society. no matter how many raging asocial scumbags like you see commenting all over this thread, and in society, who think and act like zimmerman: thinking they have a right to arm themselves and confront innocent civilians going about their business, the logic of what this precedent represents will dawn on the rest of us who can think clearly here
you don't arm cowards and let them police general society according to their prejudicial whims and feeble perceptions
not acceptable
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Do they realize that the asteroid does not care, with even one atom, what the hell humans call it, or whether we classify it as an asteroid or just as a shoe tree?
And if it had sentient life on it, they'd probably have their own name for it and they would not care either what humans wanted to call it. Shoe tree or not.
This is a lesson for the future humans who will be the first human people to land on another inhabited planet: you don't get naming rights if there are already beings there. They get to name it. Not you. And you don't get to own/mine/wreck the place either. Natives or LGMs who got there first get to do that.
BTW: the search for life in Goldilocks is dumb. A sufficiently advanced civilization would have total control over their environment and could choose to change their habitat to make it more suitable, or they could live in space, or they could develop their species one place and move to another place to live (or live in multiple places), or maybe they all live in another dimension. The way humans have settled on this limited idea of where water exists life could exist and nowhere else... just shows we have no imagination at all. The LGMs are laughing at us like we might laugh at a caveman trying to make sense out of a tax form. But he is at least likely to eventually try to eat the tax form or figure out it makes a good fire. We're too busy naming asteroids. Carry on, human race!
Sig for hire.
Your macho, thug tirade just convinced me to donate to zimmerman *again*.
If every thug who ever ambushes a stranger and does the "ground and pound" dance gets shot and killed, the world will be a better place.
The post isn't scapegoating anybody but stating facts.
By 2012, more debt was added during Obama's presidency than both of W's terms.
Obama promised to end both wars and close Guantanamo. None of those happened.
Obama signed the warrantless wiretap extension in 2012 after claiming he would end the practice in 2008.
His presidency has seen programs like PRISM vastly expanded beyond what W started.
Lastly, the saber rattling and threats of military strikes against Syria is clearly happening during his presidency.
Martin was a thief and a thug and was headed for bigger trouble but fortunately he was stopped before that happened.
Then who will (unfortunately) stop you before "it" happens?
^--see topic
Wait, what?
Trayvon Martin was literally beating Zimmerman to death. Any hit of Zimmerman's head to the pavement--witnessed by one of the prosecution's witnesses--could have been his last moment alive, without Trayvon even needing to find the gun to use against him.
The fact that you are too stupid or ignorant to recognize that is obvious in the fact that you missed the_Bionic_lemming's point: if Zimmerman did not act, then he would be dead or badly injured by a thug or "bully", completely regardless of the thug's race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else that you want to associate with the shooting.
After all, who else is going to "ground pound" someone for following them in their neighborhood? Oh, I know: a bully.
Here's to hoping that it's not the_Bionic_lemming that is beaten into some form of social enlightment...
You know something I've noticed about most of the people who complain about closing Gitmo? They forget they're the ones who didn't want Obama to do that.
Ps, the National Debt math is flawed, and the deficit is shrinking.
"When Putnam originally suggested the name to Minor Planet Center, they responded, "That's real retarded, sir."
In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
Trayvon was a bully actually. He was bragging in a facebook post about how he slapped a bus driver for something to the effect of looking at him wrong. When caught red handed painting graffiti, he was found with burglary tools and women's jewelry in his backpack by a school staff. Also, apparently the stuff he bought at the convenience store just before his death were for the purposes of making "Purple Drank".
Yeah, and this is the guy they want to name an asteroid after.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Why can't you admit that it's a great idea:
1. We don't want an asteroid in our neighborhood.
2. It will probably chase Earth down and give us a beating.
...and now we know why.
But George Zimmerman was not a racist.
So exactly what African American rights is it that William Lowell Putnam III says his family has identified with, and why are they any different than the rights any other person living in the US has? Is it the right to beat up someone because you find them creepy?? To pummel someone just because you think they are following you, even though they haven't made any overtly threatening moves? Simple because someone is a racist and thinks that if a light skinned person is following them the 'crackah' must be up to no good??
.. name your asteroid Trayvon. It will still be an insignificant speck of dust in the universe. Kind of fitting really ... an insignificant asteroid named for someone that tried to kill someone else. That if he had lived could very well be in jail by now.
Or is it some other made-up rights that I'm not aware of???
It's only controversial to those that tried their best to turn it into a race thing instead of a self-defense thing. The racists that forced Florida to have a wasted trial with no real evidence for the prosecution just to appease so many racists. Those that want to ignore the evidence presented in court and play 'what if' games that don't use any facts at all but assumptions made my people who weren't even there.
Go ahead
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
No room in that rainbow for the 80 year old War Veteran beat to death by black punks who look like Obama?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/died-soldier-world-war-ii-vet-killed-beating-fend-attackers-cops-article-1.1438024
Howbout Asteroid Belton, a guy who actually did something for his country?
Or are Asteroids only named for juvenile delinquents.?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
name one O.J. while you're at it.
Nonsense. Famous scientist, Galileo, discovered the 4 major moons of Jupiter, and named them after the Medici familiy. Sure, later people refused to honor Galileo's names. Astrologers have worked for the rich and powerful throughout history, working please to their benefactors.
Maybe a Congressman, or a rich celebrity (Spike Lee?), gave some money, or has some pull over the Lowell Observatory, merely following a long, established tradition.
Martin was a thief and a thug and was headed for bigger trouble but fortunately he was stopped before that happened.
Sometimes thieves can be taught to not be thieves. Sometimes thugs see the error in their way and change. A dead person cannot be taught to be alive again.
Zimmerman should of laid down and taken his beating - cause that's what "keeping it real" means.
(I donated to zimmerman, because that could of been me)
That happened. Another couple brave black boys beat an 88 year old WWII vet to death. Laying down and taking it is for the infirm or foolish.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/died-soldier-world-war-ii-vet-killed-beating-fend-attackers-cops-article-1.1438024
Oddly, Obama did't jump on TV and claim these punks looked like him.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
I would think that they'd be astonished that someone who was shot by the man who he was beating to death had an asteroid named after them.
Well, the court ruled that the beating he was taking was apparently brutal enough to warrant killing in self defence. So, what do you know that the court doesn't know?
The way humans have settled on this limited idea of where water exists life could exist and nowhere else... just shows we have no imagination at all.
How many scientists say that life will only be found in the Goldilocks zone? Or are you just confusing the idea of looking for what we understand first, trying to get the low hanging fruit, for saying that is the only place to look?
maybe they all live in another dimension.
And what do you propose we do right now with a typical science project budget to find such aliens? Do you have any actual solutions that are on par as something as easy as looking at spectroscopic data?
Actually, you're out of your mind. What part of the witness testimony about Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head on the concrete multiple times, his cries for help, and his bloodied head / cut-up face did you miss?
Really, it was all there, public records. Did you even remotely make an attempt to research that little tidbit of information or at least watch the news clips replayed countless times of Zimmerman's injuries or are you just going to play ignorant?
Your macho, thug tirade just convinced me to donate to zimmerman *again*.
If every thug who ever ambushes a stranger and does the "ground and pound" dance gets shot and killed, the world will be a better place.
I don't like living in a world where people start fights.
But I like living in a world where fights end with someone getting shot even less.
I stole this Sig
That you're a racist! Racism! Racism! Execute Zimmerman!
he in the outer space now now
17 is not a boy you stupid sack of shit, and even if it was I doubt they sat and had a chat about each others personal lives before Trayvon started beating him and got shot. Some little punk picked the wrong fight and got destroyed. Get over it. There is no race issue at all, other than the ones manufactured by the media who edited the 911 call and Obama. Also, does Obama think "that could have been me" or "that could have been my son?" every time a black soldier dies in those stupid wars he promised to end? Nice job trying to pervert justice, that incompetent idiot.
Clearly the black woman on the jury was being racist. And clearly its whiteys fault even when hes not actually white.
Stand your sky!
Table-ized A.I.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591520-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-neighbor-testifies-trayvon-martin-was-straddling-zimmerman-moments-before-fatal-gunshot/
He saw. I'll take the victim's word when the back of his head is bloodied alongside a swollen face, and an uninvolved party corroborates the story immediately following the incident. Trayvon did not have a mark on him, so it's pretty clear who was on the bottom given the visible, physical damage to Zimmerman.
If you are willfully blind to the evidence, then that's your own fault, but it's time that you stop spreading ignorant information. You may want Trayvon to be innocent, but absolutely nothing points to it, including his own offline and online antics and the prosecution's lead witness admitting that Trayvon used racial slurs immediately before the fight.
It seems everyone wants their bit of drama and news headlines these days. Nothing is sacred anymore - doing things with a modicum of respect and class is too boring.
Having said that, science doesn't have to be completely serious all the time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9007_James_Bond)
"Holy crap! A weapon just floating in space!"
I feel like we're sinking deeper each and every time I find myself saying "We have just reached a new low in stupidity."
You're so childish and self-centered, even the autistic Asperger's dorks of slashdot seem like real men, in comparison, Mr. Internet Tough Guy.
As for Trayvon... good fucking riddance.
Have a nice day, retard.
Trying to name an asteroid after Martin is an overt political act that has no place in the naming of such bodies. It's absurd and wrong.
I don't think the Zimmerman defense even claimed "Stand Your Ground" laws. Why do people keep spouting this nonsense?
13% of the US population kills almost Twice as many as 70% of population(Black vs White only)
White Kills Black
Black Kills White
But this
Black Kills Black
White Kills White
The totals here are not that different, but if Whites killed at the same rate as Blacks, were close to 200,000
Trayvon was a bully actually. He was bragging in a facebook post about how he slapped a bus driver for something to the effect of looking at him wrong. When caught red handed painting graffiti, he was found with burglary tools and women's jewelry in his backpack by a school staff. Also, apparently the stuff he bought at the convenience store just before his death were for the purposes of making "Purple Drank".
Yeah, and this is the guy they want to name an asteroid after.
It's worse than that.
They actually think that a verdict being handed down in this particular case should have an effect on the outcome of getting a name like "Treyvon" approved.
It obviously shouldn't. Perhaps there was an overreaction as an end result to the confrontation, but it sure as hell doesn't eliminate the fact this kid was a punk that doesn't deserve to be immortalized. In fact, nothing around that case should be immortalized. It's not exactly an event in human history we want or need to remember due to the events that led up to someone's death, along with the questionable legal outcome.
I suppose we should expect to see Rodney King and Tupac wanting to be immortalized in the stars soon too...
I did not know that the sky is property of United States.
How about Finland name some object "Aki Sirkesalo"?
I would presume such a world would result in very few fights, and therefore fewer deaths regardless of the tools used.
"Why do people keep spouting this nonsense?"
Because it's easier to repeat a lie than to accept the truth...
Were these black boys left loose once they claimed a "stand your ground" defense? No? Thought so.
Was Zimmerman? Also no.
You're free to presume that, but I think the evidence is inconclusive at best. People around a lot of guns are people who feel threatened, some are more cautious, but some react to threats with aggression. Some will avoid confrontation because of how quickly they escalate, some will escalate more readily because the last one to escalate dies. You can spin whatever narrative you want but you need actual evidence.
I stole this Sig
Zimmerman was patrolling a GATED community in which Martin himself also lived as far as I know. I don't like the idea of gated communities but if you live in one, you basically agree with neighborhood watches.
Zimmerman HAD the right to play cop given to him by everyone who choose to live in that GATED community, including Martin.
And Martin only lived there because he was a thug wannabe and had been kicked out by his parents.
It is clear where you loyalties lie, you believe Martin should be able to do whatever he want, up to and including crime and nobody has a right to say "not in my neighborhood". Zimmerman was patrolling for a reason, crime had gone up. Oddly enough just after Martin moved in, Martin who on his phone had evidence of several crimes.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Named for Danish film director Morten Lindberg would be cool.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Before or after Zimmerman got out of the car to attack Trayvon, against the advice of the dispatcher?
If he wasn't out to attack the black kid, there's no way Trayvon could have even touched Zimmerman. Yes, black guys run fast, and american trucks are slow. But the truck is still fast enough to get away.
I think it's fucking stupid and fuck both trayvon and zimmerman, they're both equally responsible for what happened.
The issue is, does he who discovers get to name or not? Anything else is just mental masturbation. Let him call it cunt wagon delux if he wants.
I feel like we're sinking deeper each and every time I find myself saying "We have just reached a new low in stupidity."
The feeling is correct. It's like reading out the altitude in a free falling elevator,
you could never speak fast enough to keep pace with events...
but the direction is certain and the conclusion will be no surprise...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
No contact details could be found for either the owner, or the observatory, but at least here is their Facebook page: linkie
Trayvon Martin was clearly a violent criminal. Why in the world does anyone feel sorry for that creep. He was attempting to murder Mr. Zimmerman when he was shot. Is that really hard to understand?
"point it out"?? Go do the research yourself. It's been shown constantly, over-and-over again in every media form available. Your ignorance to not pay attention is not our problem.
Zimmerman was being pummeled by Trayvon. Case closed. Get over it.
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/07
naming anything in space is laughable when you consider what you are in relation to it.
Good people go to bed earlier.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/222159581.html
A man who followed an intoxicated man down Hennepin Avenue in Minneapolis was joined by two others before one punched him in the face and stole his cellphone as he lay unconscious and bleeding on the sidewalk, according to charges against one of the suspects.
Assteroid Trayvon?
Except, your "truth" is actually a twisted lie. The stand your ground law was absolutely a factor in this case. The police didn't initially arrest Zipperman based on this law and the jury was instructed to consider the law in their decision. The truth
Posting during a break from your SEAL activities?
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Sure why not immortalize a young man that was nothing more than a thug, punk, thief and drug user attacking a Latino guy. There are many more people deserving of such than him.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
When we name it the Bullwinkle asteroid or the Beavis asteroid, we will have arrived at that destination.
Maybe you like the Hillary asteroid or the Obama hemorrhoid better; name them after political figures, big and dense and on their way off the radar.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Zimmerman should have laid down and taken his beating - cause that's what "keeping it real" means.
(I donated to zimmerman, because that could have been me)
How about just NO.
I hope they find the vigilante, they've been blaming George Zimmerman. I know he didn't murder anyone, he was protecting the gated neighborhood from crackhead niggers under guidance from the police. What do you call a nigger walking through a gated community after dark? THIEF!
What kind of Niggers live in Plano , Tx? Just Plano Niggers.
What's black,has 3 heads and screws white women and makes a living off racism? Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson and Leonard Pitts.
Well , now that wasn't funny, that's sickening and crude,but, isn't the truth always?
Just stay on your side of town and it won't be you. That's what's real, keep it that way.
If it does ever head to Earth, it too will be a shooting star.
I'd prefer a Star named DELBERT BELTON.
A real everyday hero instead of a thug.
Do you know what stand your ground is? It's a law that protects a person from a trial if they claim it, it also protects a person from having to prove they ran away before using deadly force. How exactly is Zimmerman supposed to run away when he is being pummeled on the ground? Zimmerman did not stand his ground he was getting beaten on it, it is a simple self defense case. Remember there is no evidence on how the altercation started, did Trayvon attack Zimmerman from behind, did Zimmerman confront Trayvon, did they both come around a corner and bump into each other. It's simply not known we can only speculate, last I checked you can't speculate beyond a reasonable doubt.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
Not just different. Wildly different. Here almost everyone sides with the self-defense (established) theory. The few exceptions are on the whole suspiciously grammar-impaired.
In the general public it's the opposite, starting from Tricky Baracky who feels a strong sense of identity with the aggressor (did he often use the term "cracker" as a pot-smoking teenager?).
You may have guessed the "different from" sign disappeared from the subject of my post.
A martyr is someone who dies for a noble cause, isn't it?
Support my political activism on Patreon.
They want to name an asteroid for a teenager who was shot while attacking someone, a teenager whose own phone showed him to be a violent punk with history of attacking people including his bus driver and wanted to illegally purchase a hand gun? I can only guess they like criminals.
No. It's someone who is killed for their, usually religious, beliefs. Nobleness of how they died is not a factor.
You realize that even if you do everything that the guy with the gun says, he might shoot you anyway, right? You want to live in a world where only criminals have guns.
That sounds rather different that what the previous AC post described though.
I much prefer a world where you can be beaten to death, but if you fight back and save your life, the guy who was trying to kill you gets asteroids named after him and the president praising him only because of his color.
THL phish sticks
Were these black boys left loose once they claimed a "stand your ground" defense? No? Thought so.
You do know that "stand your ground" wasn't applied on the Zimmerman case, right?
www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
www.fairtax.org
The preponderant majority of evidence, expert testimony, and jury conclusion points to Travon trying to beat George into the pavement.
Maybe no-one teaches kids in the "black community" how to fist fight without trying to kill someone when they are already down. But thank God we live in a country where you don't have to just wait for the cops to come while you are being killed.
THL phish sticks
You know something I've noticed about most of the people who complain about closing Gitmo? They forget they're the ones who didn't want Obama to do that.
That's great. Doesn't apply to me in the least.
Ps, the National Debt math is flawed, and the deficit is shrinking.
How is it flawed? And what relevance does a single year's deficit shrinking have to do with the fact that more debt was added on in 4 years than W's out of control spending for 8?
Ah. I thought a martyr could be someone who stood for a political or social cause as well. Someone who died for something, because they were just trying to do what they thought was right.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
I've found that most people who are defensive of Trayvon Martin tend to live in safe suburban communities or heavily gentrified urban centers. What this means is that they really have no clue what it's really like in lower income areas beyond what they see in movies and hear in the news.
So when people suggest there's a serious problem in these communities it gets dismissed as stereotyping. And what problems are acknowledged are always blamed on the establishment. But no one ever looks at the communities themselves. There are a lot of kids out there who while aren't outright criminals are indeed thuggish assholes like Trayvon. They're the kinds of kids who won't back down because they don't want to look like a punk, and so end up in way over their heads.
I happen to live in an area that straddles the divide between a nicer, more affluent community and a crap area with a lot of low income housing. There's a pervasive lack of respect and manners amongst the kids in those low income neighborhoods. It's not all of them, but it's far too many. Do something as innocuous as jogging, especially as a white guy, and inevitably some asshole will heckle you. There's this persistent tendency to lash out at anything they perceive as different. And mind you, I'm not talking about outright crime here, but that's often the inevitable trajectory.
But ultimately, who's fault is this? It's the parents who don't give a shit about raising their kids properly. Where were Trayvon's parents as he was growing up? They're complicit in their son's death because if they had raised him properly he'd be less likely to seek out confrontation and he probably wouldn't have even been in that situation at all because he'd be doing something more responsible.
The frustrating bit in all this is that instead of identifying the real problems with the culture we're all fixated on nonsense. Inevitably people are going to the scapegoat and trotting out the victimization card. Same old garbage and so the problems never end.
I don't like living in a world where fights end with the victim grievously wounded or dead - I'd much rather have the unprovoked aggressor shot and killed to serve as a deterrent to other aggressors.
But you already clearly understand where the *real* problem is - the aggressor who decides to start a fight with a stranger for no reason. We may differ on the best way to deter aggressors, but understanding what the root cause is always the first step to coming to a real answer.
It's fitting in a way because if that asteroid threatens earth we are going to use our weapons to destroy it in order to defend our lives. Seriously though this makes me sick to my stomach. Trayvon was a punk with a record and he was not some innocent martyr to black people but was instead a hoodlum who assaulted the wrong guy.
Ah yes, but why let facts muddy a perfectly beautiful justification for being a racist twerp.
Oh wait...black people hate the gay.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2008-11-07/politics/36807003_1_marriage-issue-gay-rights-advocates-civil-rights
This would be the ultimate in PC stupidity. I would rather name an asteroid after Neil deGrasse Tyson. Not only is he a more worthy honoree, but an observatory should suggest honorees that are relevant to their own science.
Have you ever found any one dumb enough to buy it. Except for those small, cowardly, little men that feel the need to carry guns in the case that their over inflated sense of adequacy blows up in their face. I'm afraid that, despite your attempts at making them seem significant, most sane adults know better than endangering everyone else around them by carrying a manhood replacement.
in desperate need of a penis extension does not mean anything , and only provides a brief bit of entertainment for the grownups.
I feel like we're sinking deeper each and every time I find myself saying "We have just reached a new low in stupidity."
What some people see as sad commentary others see as a challenge.
What's so odd about that? We already have Abbott (17023) and Costello (17024) rubbing shoulders with Larry (30440), Curly (30441), Moe (30439) and Shemp (30444). There are Tomhanks (12818) and Megryan (8353) and even a James Bond (9007) and Monty Python (13681).
Bullwinkle may not be an asteroid yet, but his creator Alan Anderson (14158) does.
You may want Trayvon to be innocent, but absolutely nothing points to it
Sounds like he was "standing his ground". Isn't that sort of thing encouraged in the USA?
Gun ownership is UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Google it yourself.
Pretty simple. An armed society is a polite society.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Then we can use asteroid Trayvon for target practice as well! :)
Earth is in imminent danger from it and we can blast it to bits
"Citation Needed" is the last refuge of a Troll.
You realize that even if you do everything that the guy with the gun says, he might shoot you anyway, right? You want to live in a world where only criminals have guns.
That is absolutely true. Here in Oklahoma, less than a mile from my house a black guy pulled a gun on a white guy and his girlfriend that were in their car. The thief made the girlfriend strip and stand in the middle of the road, and ordered the guy to give him his wallet. The guy in the car complied with everything the thief asked, and then the black guy shot and killed him.
Several days later, the same black guy killed a woman who was selling him a stereo.
He's now serving about a 20 year sentence, but he'll probably be out in 5 years or so.
Meanwhile, also in Oklahoma, a white guy who killed a black guy who attempted to rob him at gunpoint is serving life in prison.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Before or after Zimmerman got out of the car to attack Trayvon, against the advice of the dispatcher?
If he wasn't out to attack the black kid, there's no way Trayvon could have even touched Zimmerman. Yes, black guys run fast, and american trucks are slow. But the truck is still fast enough to get away.
I get so tired of this absolute bullshit spin on the order of events it's not funny. Trayvon supporters invariably get the facts wrong and utterly fail simple logic.
1) Zimmerman was already outside of his truck when the dispatcher advised him he did not need to follow. The dispatcher testified this was to avoid legal liability on himself in the event Zimmerman was harmed. This was not a command and not legally binding. Just as Trayvon had a right to be out in public, Zimmerman had a right to be where he wanted. It was his home. And no, it wasn't Trayvon's home. He was a guest.
2) Beyond your own fantasy world, there is no evidence that Zimmerman "got out of his car to attack" anyone.
3) You are an idiot.
This case had nothing to do with race and everything to do with defending oneself against an aggressor. Anyone who brought race into it was a racist. The only reason this even went to court is because racists are trying to make it where you can't defend yourself if your aggressor is black.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
So. You will just take it when someone decides to beat you to death. Good to know.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
The story is set and all will fall in line.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
He was let down by his parents for not raising him properly. He was let down by his communities lack morals. He was let down by societies glorification of "the Thug Life".
He never had a chance to become a decent man. Family, Community, Federal Government and the Press all conspired to turn him into a violent and irresponsible person who was taught to blame white males for every problem he saw.
Teaching of personal responsibility would have created a Trayvon that not only would have never died that night, but one that could have been a benefit to his community. We lose good black men and women everyday to the teachings of Jacksons and Sharptons.
It really was a shame that Trayvon had to die that night. A much bigger shame is all the other young black men that will die this year and next.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Even though what the jury found was that George Zimmerman acted in Self Defense. Jury instructions aside. They did not find him innocent due to the stand your ground laws. They found that he acted in self defense, The same verdict would have come in states with out "Stand your ground laws".
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
At least something like this can give Trayvon's murder [... nonsense redacted]
I will correct your ignorance. Trayvon was not murdered. The case went to court as all the bleating liberals wanted. Remember the bitching about "all we want is justice?" The jury had it's say and as everyone knows who actually watched the trial, got the decision correct. Even the prosecutors realized at the end that they didn't prove shit, and asked for manslaughter instead. Now they are facing judicial sanction motions for their behaviors. The state's attorney was even afraid to try to indict before a grand jury, and had to run a Hail Mary to bring the case to court. And the state of Florida is facing a $200,000 reimbursement bill for prosecuting a man with no evidence other than listening to idiots like yourself screaming murder. Despite all the hand wringing, belly aching, protesting, bitching, and complaining, George Zimmerman was cleared of wrongdoing, including manslaughter. Accept it. If you couldn't win this case with all the odds stacked in your favor, it was a slam dunk.
You forgot that there were text messages on his cell phone about Martin wanting to get a handgun.
Ps, the National Debt math is flawed, and the deficit is shrinking.
The national debt continues to grow, and will continue to grow. I'm not sure if the deficit is growing or not - Congress hasn't passed a budget in 5 years or so -- so that math is a little fuzzy. However, the deficit can shrink and the debt will continue to grow.
Let's say you make $50,000 a year. Last year you spent $70,000 and you currently have $100,000 in debt.
If you make $55,000 next year and your spending remains steady at $70,000, your deficit will shrink but your debt will grow to $115,000 (plus interest)
Then why is crime alo down in Canada by a like amount? Also, when did slashdot become home to so many racist idiots!
What about all the other colors of people that this also happens to? It isn't exclusively to black people.
Gawd. We will never know Trayvon Martin's side of the story. You seem pretty keen to convict him without knowing it. What does that say about you?
Neither can the victims that Trayvon would have inevitably left in his wake. Had Zimmerman not been armed, the story wouldn't have merited more than a 10 second blurb on the nightly news, just another hispanic killed by a black. Who knows how many more would have died before he was imprisoned or killed by some OTHER thug?
Bullshit. I wanted to close gitmo when Bush was in office, and I want it closed now. Not everyone changes their opinions when the telescreens tell us to, you know.
The US is at war with al-Qaeda. The US has always been at war with al- Qaeda *bzzt* The US is allied with al-Qaeda. The US has always been allied with al-Qaeda.
Of course, I didn't really need to reply. The fact that you think the national debt is shrinking exposes your absolute lunacy.
The black community has bit hit the hardest by this rhetoric. But as personal responsibility is replaced by "who do I blame?" in general every one will suffer. Not just minorities either. The thug life is glorified with the young of the white middle class not as well. Black communities have already been destroyed by it and it is coming to all communities. We can not do anything about it either. We will just be shouted down as racists as those that destroyed the minority communities push the same agenda upon society as a whole.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Posting on Facebook ABOUT ASSAULTING SOMEONE FOR NO REASON.
Continuous violation of fair play will result in a return to institutional racism. You can thank yourself when you get murdered by an enraged mob of whites in a few years. People can only take so much before they abandon collective guilt for collective rage.
Collectivism is poison, and you are spreading it like a madman.
Let's blame society for making him bash someone's head against a sidewalk.
Congress has passed many budgets in the last 5 years. It's the Senate that has failed to act.
man, you're a little bitch if you think posting on facebook, smoking a joint, and drinking drank makes you a 'bully'
You're 100% correct, except that I see you conveniently left out the part about him slapping a bus driver. That would make him a bully.
The graffiti, burglary, pot smoking and purple drank, which you also conveniently failed to mention, would qualify him as a criminal.
That is not what I did. I believe in personal responsibility. That is not what is being taught by our leaders or our society anymore. What we are teaching is coming back to bite us and it will get worse.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
The United States Congress is consists of two houses: the House of Representatives and the Senate. You are correct that the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has passed several budgets and the Democrat-controlled Senate has failed to approve a budget.
Injecting highly controversial politics into naming celestial objects is an excellent idea.
I wholeheartedly support this. Unless it's against my team. Then I wholeheartedly hate it.
Bad Idea
No, it's not "cracker", it's "cracka".
Sheesh, haven't you been following the story? It's all about the r!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfReCoRRIow
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
Why are you accusing him of racism when you're replying to statements about gun ownership?
The original topic of the discussion was Trayvon Martin and his name being used for an asteroid,but this portion seems to be focused on gun ownership.
Perhaps you use racism as a general negative term for everything you dislike?
If so, you are a poopie head.
Both guys were on their side of town. Trayvon's dad (whom he lived with occassionally) lived there, and George Zimmerman lived there. It was "turf" of both, if you believe people have exclusive rights to some property they don't own.
The problem with the "blame the victim" charge for drunk rape victims is that this has been used against alleged perpetrators when there was no rape.
Drunken rape really has two scenarios, that some advocates unfairly treat as equal:
1) woman goes out, gets drunk, says no, is forced -- actual rape
2) woman goes out, gets drunk, goes home with guy, regrets it in the morning when sober, cries rape -- not actual rape
confusing things worse is case 3
3) woman goes out, gets drunk, hooks up with equally drunk guy, neither remembers exactly what happened, other than there was some sex, woman cries rape -- who know what the hell happened, maybe we should ban alcohol, or stupidity or something, can you people behave???
At some point, the principle of "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" needs to kick in. Case 3 certainly has doubt. Differentiating between 1 and 2 is definitely a problem, but I don't think the solution is "always believe the woman".
Probably best for men and women to avoid getting that inebriated. Your putting your fate in the hands of an RNG.
If you want to call and express your opinion, here is their outreach manager's contact info:
Kevin Schindler phone # : 928-233-3210
email: kevin@lowell.edu
Also, the Zimmerman defense team put a witness on the stand, a forensic expert, who testified that the forensic evidence showed that Martin must have been on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired.
The forensic evidence showed that Martin's shirt was hanging away from his chest. Had Martin been on his back, that would have been impossible. Had Martin been standing upright, that would have been impossible. The forensic evidence proved that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
There was only a tiny bit of evidence presented to suggest that Zimmerman was the aggressor, and that evidence is laughably weak:
Martin's parents testified that the recorded voice calling "Help" sounded like their son. However, they are not impartial and are not audio experts, and Zimmerman's parents also testified that the recorded voice was THEIR son.
APK, is that you?
I haven't read all of the comments - 300+ of people bitching about a court case that's done and buried ruined the rest of the posts for me :p
Wouldn't it just be crazy if the name were approved, then the asteroid ended up on a collision course with Earth requiring us to shoot it? SYG FTW!
Uhh, two things occurring over the same period of time is a possible correlation, but you've jumped all the way to causation. There is also a perfectly reasonable explanation - legalized abortion - with plenty of data to support it.
You have corroborated factual evidence wrong. Your opinion is moot. Try back again after you educate yourself.
Smartphone ownership is UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Cat videos on Youtube are UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Justin Beiber album sales are UP
Violent crime is DOWN.
Google it yourself.
Pretty simple. Looking for a rough correlation in two variables in one country is almost meaningless.
I stole this Sig
You realize that even if you do everything that the guy with the gun says, he might shoot you anyway, right? You want to live in a world where only criminals have guns.
Criminals don't just conjure guns up out of the ether. All those guns are manufactured legally and often enter the marketplace legally as well. You can get the guns away from the criminals but it's going to involve taking them away from the law abiding citizens too.
I stole this Sig
So if the white guy had a gun, why would any of this change? Is he going to be able to get the gun cocked and pointed at the black guy before the black guy can pull his trigger? Would he be stupid enough to try? I'm not against guns, but we're not all Clint Eastwood. If both people have a gun, then it's more likely that someone dies, and it'll almost always be the aggressor gets the first shot.
this won't ever happen, but I'd love to have a legal reason to kick your ass
you're a bully...bullies are shirveled little half/men deep inside...they have to push others down to make themselves feel worthy
So if someone attacks you... you're a bully if you defend yourself. And you fully admit you wish you could bully him for his statements. This is strange reasoning. This entire thread, almost every post, feels like "black = white, up = down."
Thank you for giving us your real name and address, Justin C. Epperly. For your comments here and on your website, we have blacklisted you from any future employment opportunities.
For the millionth time, there's no proof or evidence that GZ's life was in danger. Review the court's findings. It's funny to see all these 'tough guys' support such a pussy. "Praising him only because of his color"?? You don't think there was anything else significant about this case? Take a step back and evaluate your position on this matter. Imagine how the same scenario would play out with a 27 yr old black guy and a 17 yr old white kid.
For the million and oneth time, there's no evidence TM was 'beating GZ to death'. GZ had minor scratches on the back of his head. His nose was broken. Same as a lot of fist fights.
No, the court did not rule that. The jury took into account the stand-your-ground law. GZ didn't use SYG in his self-defence, but it was explained to the jury and was key in their decision. GZ only need to 'believe' his life was in danger. There did not have to be evidence of such. Based on the evidence alone, there was no justification for killing in self-defense. Under stand your ground, if someone punches you in the face, you can literally kill them (but only with a gun). Without stand your ground, killing him would have been considered too excessive.
The reaction from the police had much to do with race. Imagine they show up at the scene and there's a 27 yr old black guy with a gun and a dead 17 yr old white kid. Would they let him go without so much as a breathalizer? Just food for thought.
Thank you. I'm surprised how many pussies there are on slashdot who can't understand that a fist fight doesn't mean you're going to die. Maybe they've got pent-up hostility about all the times they got pummeled in high school. Believe me, I was on the losing end too, but I wouldn't have wanted those people to die as a result.
wtf is purple drank?
What's wrong with getting a hand gun? You're in favor of GZ but against the 2nd amendment?
He didn't, but the judge explained it to the jury, who were ordered to take it under consideration. One of the jurors came forward saying that without the law, it could've gone the other way.
COOPER: Because of the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
JUROR: Right. Because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/15/2306631/zimmerman-juror-says-panel-considered-stand-your-ground-he-had-a-right-to-defend-himself/
Yaaay, anecdotal evidence!
why not osama bin laden? if we gonna start honoring criminals, go big.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
The jury took into account the stand-your-ground law.
The oft-referenced stand-your-ground law actually had little bearing on this case. It was ordinary self-defense, and there's no state in the nation where you cannot use lethal force if an assailant is using lethal force. A stand-your-ground law doesn't need to come into question. Now if Trayvon ran towards him and Zimmerman shot him before he got there, that would be a definite Stand Your Ground case (and a truly ugly one at that...), but those aren't the circumstances of the events as determined by the courts.
Based on the evidence alone, there was no justification for killing in self-defense
If your head is being repeatedly slammed into the pavement, you have every reason to think you're about to die.
Facts are not what they want. Once NBC edited the tapes to make Zimmerman a "White Racist" it was over.
The story is set and all will fall in line.
Zimmerman being a white racist sure would have made a "better story," wouldn't it?
This case had nothing to do with race and everything to do with defending oneself against an aggressor. Anyone who brought race into it was a racist. The only reason this even went to court is because racists are trying to make it where you can't defend yourself if your aggressor is black.
Hold on, hold on. Look, I think Zimmerman's story was the true one, and that the jury got it right, but you can't deny that the circumstances leading up to the incident were racially charged. Trayvon used an incorrect racial slur regarding Zimmerman. Zimmerman followed Trayvon because he profiled him, partly based on race. There were even reasons why racially profiling Trayvon wasn't unreasonable (there was a rash of break-ins in the neighborhood, a month earlier Zimmerman had caught a young black man breaking into a neighbor's home, Trayvon wasn't familiar and Zimmerman thought he looked like he was casing all the houses). And to say that anyone who mentions race with the case is a racist?
He was let down by societies glorification of "the Thug Life".
Oh my God, I wish I had mod points (and hadn't posted a thousand times in this story already).
This alone deserves +5, Informative.
wtf is purple drank?
Recreational drug cocktail
.
Wrong, stand-your-ground was fundamental to the jury's eventual verdict:
COOPER: Because of the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
JUROR: Right. Because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/15/2306631/zimmerman-juror-says-panel-considered-stand-your-ground-he-had-a-right-to-defend-himself/
And the only witness who said his head was being slammed repeatedly into the pavement was the guy on trial for 2nd degree murder. He had lesions on the back of his head but nothing serious. I don't believe Zimmerman, but I acknowledge he might be telling the truth and we'd never know. So should he spend time in jail? I don't know, it's a really complicated case, but i wish people would acknowledge for a second that GZ might be telling a lie to get out of a long prison sentence.
Apparently you never saw someone get head stomped after getting taking down in a fist fight, it all starts out as fun in games but you never know who is going to take getting punched in the face the wrong way. A fight in a boxing ring has rules definitely but the person that thinks a street fight has rules is usually the loser
So what percentage of street fights end with someone dying? 50%? 75%? probably less than .01%. When you're getting your ass kicked, it may *feel* like the other person is trying to kill you, but believe me it'll be okay.
That's because your definition of "US public" is formed by the TV, newspapers and websites you get information from. Which, judging by your picture of it, are mostly left-wing.
Note, I'm not on an "evil librul" drive here. I'm a social democrat myself (albeit one who respects 2A and carries himself). I read both mainstream and fringe media from both left and right, and one thing that was clear in Martin/Zimmerman case was that there was no consensus (informed or otherwise) on it in US - as it was generally misappropriated to rally people to the cause of gun control (and against "stand your ground" laws) and for black civil rights, neither of which have anything to do with the actual case at hand. So people formed along the usual political front lines on all of these issues - liberals ranting about how racist crazies get guns and go shoot up poor black kids, and conservatives ranting about how [black] thugs high on drugs ruin our neighborhoods, rape our women and threaten our children. All the usual drivel.
Meanwhile, those who have actually followed the case and looked into the details quickly found out that 1) stand your ground was not involved at all, 2) there was no racial bias involved, or at least there's no evidence to conclude that way, and 3) regardless of the irresponsible behavior of both actors, legally, Zimmerman was in the clear. Hence the purported "pro-Zimmerman bias" - which is really not a bias in favor of the guy, but rather just a factual assessment of the case. I suspect there is a higher proportion of people verifying data and reaching this conclusion on Slashdot compared to your typical discussion board, just because there are more skeptics here in general.
These black boys weren't, because SYG did not apply. It didn't apply in Zimmerman's case, either, by the way - he was acquitted based solely on regular self-defense laws which permit a person to use deadly force to defend themselves when there's no ability to retreat during an attack; SYG, or lack thereof, only applies when there is an ability to retreat after the attack is imminent.
Anyway, you want a black Zimmerman? You have him. A black guy saw a bunch of white kids vandalizing cars, went out and confronted them, and shot one of them when he tried to attack him (it should be noted that the kid in question didn't even manage to lay a finger on him - he was shot as he was advancing).
And guess what? He was acquitted (by a jury of 11 whites and 1 black, by the way). Because it was self-defense.
A fight does not have to involve a firearm to end up in a fatal injury or maiming.
On the other hand, if aggressors consistently end up being dead or maimed, one could reasonably believe that would be much fewer fights overall. Perhaps even so much fewer that the net balance of lives saved vs lives lost would be positive (though I personally don't consider the value of human life to be equal between the victim and the attacker).
Other people in this thread pointed out that SYG laws indeed WERE considered in this case: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4173251&cid=44779213
So I repeat, were these black boys left loose? Or were they arrested and are awaiting a trial, which will almost certainly find them guilty?
Oh, here's a real reverse Zimmerman case: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/16/the-reverse-travyon-martin-case-and-the-other-george-zimmerman.html - a man in a car shot another man whom he deemed to be threating.
Exactly this. It's just worth remembering that it also works the other way around - and it also works when two or more countries are involved (unless you can somehow account for all the other variables).
So we have one opinion of an apparently confused anonymous juror. On the other hand, the transcripts of the case are available to all, and the jury instructions are clear there. They did mention the lack of duty to retreat because that's what the standing Florida law is; but it was not a factor that played any role in the decision because Zimmerman did not have the ability to retreat at the point when violent confrontation began (and he had no obligation to retreat before that, unless Trayvon somehow indicated his aggressive intentions before initiating the attack).
The black boys were not left loose because they were not defending themselves, but rather trying to rob the guy (in case you aren't aware, SYG only applies in case of legitimate self-defense, and you don't get to claim such when you were committing a violent crime yourself). I don't even know why I have to explain this; it's something that's so obviously common sense that you have to be either an idiot or a troll to even ask that question.
I see that you don't offer any comments at all regard the case that I've linked to. Is it because it does not conform to your mental picture of the world, where hordes of gun-toting whites stalk poor black kids in hoodies to murder them in some kind of undercover RaHoWa?
As for the case that you've linked to. The guy shot and killed a person after being verbally insulted (not even threatened). He claims that there had been an attempt to attack him with "some pipe-like object", but the object was not found, he has no injuries from such an attack, and no witnesses to back his claims, so the obvious conclusion is that it's all bullshit. In contrast, in Martin/Zimmerman case, Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story of having his head banged against the concrete; he had a close witness confirming that he was on the bottom; and nature of Martin's wound and the corresponding damage to his clothes can only be reasonably explained by him being on top.
Zimmerman had ability to retreat before the confrontation. He had no _duty_ to do it (that's SYG law). We might never know what happened, perhaps Zimmerman called Trayvon 'a fucking n...er' or threatened to shoot him on the spot.
Imagine that I walk into a bar and start a brawl with the biggest baddest meanie there, then I pull out my gun and shoot him. It appears to be totally legal under Florida's laws (well, I can be nicked for getting a weapon into a bar - that's a felony, btw). Should I be let go in this case? Now imagine that there is nobody in the bar at that time, so it's my word against corpse's. I'll even have bruises to prove that I was threatened!
That's why SYG laws are dumb and should be repealed. Civilians should certainly be able to use deadly force in self-defense (or in defense of other peoples' lives), or to protect their property ('castle doctrine') but that's it.
Except his bloody head.
Last time I was getting ground-and-pounded, the guy leaned in too close to taunt me and I bit his face.
He screamed and screamed.
When my head get pounded on the ground I really dislike those "lesions".
Shouldn't punch people then, unless you plan on killing them.
Otherwise, you might not be able to get your side of the story out.
Zimmerman had ability to retreat before the confrontation. He had no _duty_ to do it (that's SYG law).
SYG (and self-defense law in general) does not enter into the equation until the confrontation actually begins. So no, he didn't have a duty to retreat even in the absence of SYG, since there was nothing to retreat from when he was following Martin - there was no confrontation (it is not illegal to follow someone, and it does not indicate imminent threat).
Imagine that I walk into a bar and start a brawl with the biggest baddest meanie there, then I pull out my gun and shoot him. It appears to be totally legal under Florida's laws
It's not, because starting a brawl means that you initiate a confrontation - in the circumstances, it would likely be treated as battery, and self-defense and SYG do not apply when you're attacked while in commission of a violent crime.
On the other hand, if you start a brawl but then attempt to escape or otherwise stop the violence by deescalating, and the other guy continues going at you, then at that point only it would become a legitimate self-defense situation for you.
Now imagine that there is nobody in the bar at that time, so it's my word against corpse's. I'll even have bruises to prove that I was threatened!
This can be the case whether SYG is involved or not. All you'd have to do is to claim that you were cornered and had no avenue of escape (well, and be convincing enough that the jury actually believes you).
Having said that, self-defense in general (and hence also SYG) is an affirmative defense. This means that the onus of proof is on you as a defendant (on the charge of manslaughter) to demonstrate that you were acting in self-defense.
To reiterate, the only thing that SYG changes is that, if you successfully argue self-defense, you then don't have to also prove that you had no way to retreat. That is all. And the reason for this law is that there were, indeed, cases where people were clearly defending themselves, but were convicted because they could not demonstrate that they couldn't have safely run away - which is what "duty to retreat" requires. It was considered unjust to the victims to have to prove themselves again in the circumstances, especially after having already demonstrated that the attacker was up to no good (so why would the law concern itself with his well-being?).
or to protect their property ('castle doctrine')
Castle doctrine is not about protection of property. It's also a no-duty-to-retreat concept, except that it applies in the more narrow circumstances where the person claiming self-defense is on their property or in place of abode. It still requires imminent threat of death or bodily harm to exercise, and mere property damage is not sufficient.
The only place that I'm aware of where you can actually protect your property with deadly force with no imminent threat to yourself or any other person is Texas.
I'm on team MLK. This Slashdot story infers Lowell Observatory is not on team MLK, but rather on team Politically Correct.
As pointed out here:
http://youtu.be/Ebu6Yvzs4Ls
The exact same way.
Are you trying to start a race riot?
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Gives me pause to reflect how far away from Powell's perspective and ideals Mr Putman as trustee has evolved ... I visited Powell last year (an amateur astronomer of sorts) and was impressed to learn it was private sector support that got the facility off the ground and private sector support that keeps it running ... not government largess.
Honoring a pot-smoking, violence-prone teenager? Seriously?
Normally I'm against honoring people who died due to their misdeeds. So instead how about we just name the asteroid "Dead Nigger"?
trying to shoot it down
What does Tray mean? Why do we need to rename astriod
Here we go...see, I'm only 34 but I feel 68 because this basic knowledge you stated...it *used* to be common knowledge...
Now, I just can't think of a clearer way to say it...men have gone soft...
That's what makes them 'lash out' and buy expensive assault rifles...nerd rage...
The real number of deadly street fights is easily below .00001%
By the current legal definition of 'assault'...and excluding domestic assault or robberty type stuff, there are thousands of bar scuffles in any given weekend in a college town.
I know, I've been in a few myself. It sucks and is stupid and childish.
Zimmerman and Trayvon had words, to be sure, but absolutely no evidence was presented as to *who hit first*...Zimmerman didn't even take the stand to testify to it!
Where this is going is *more*...more little bitch wannabe cops (like Zimmerman) trying to 'draw the foul' on anyone that intimidates them or presents as a target for their self-aggrandizing.
We'll see it play out slowly, but in 10 years the stats will be clear...we'll see it in a rise of shootings by working and middle class white people that get caught up in court...other states will start having Zimmerman type shootings get publicity...court battles...
That's my opinion anyway...
Thank you Dave Raggett
Why stop with "Trayvon" (as in St. Trayvon, in Lowell's apparent cosmological estimation)? Let's cut to the chase and use the name Trayvon chose for his nickname: "No Limits Nigga". Puts everything in perspective, right? Let's not lose our perspective and "pretty" Trayvon up to assuage crippling white guilt....
also, big lesson here...anyone who has ever been in fights has had their ass kicked...it sucks
i agree that the process of fighting hard and losing control, getting beat up...then waking up the next day and dealing with it...it just seems like that *used* to be a right of passage for all boys...like grade school or middle school
it lets you know what is at stake in a fight...and encourages you to make it the last resort...b/c people. could. get. killed.
Thank you Dave Raggett
Better go and read the guidelines. https://www.iau.org/public/themes/naming/
In particular,
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
The racial hatred expressed in the comments on this site are shocking!
They should evaluate the judgmental capability of the astronomer who suggested the name though. To make maters more ridiculous the UN has demanded all records of the case so they can evaluate our judicial system and tell us what to do..
Fist fights can be deadly, or crippling.
Once upon a time a fight had broken out next to an area where pizza shops are clustered in close proximity to bars in my town. A young man happened to have been in one of those pizza shops getting a slice for him and his girlfriend when it broke out.
His girlfriend was on the periphery of the fight, and he tried to skirt the edges to get back to her so they could get out. One big guy involved in the fight spotted him and grabbed him.
The young man tried to tell him that he wasn't involved and just wanted to get back to his girlfriend. The big guy responded,"Sorry man, wrong place wrong time."
The big guy then threw the young man to the ground, kicked him, then stomped his foot on the young man's head so that it smashed into the curb. Luckily the crowd reacted and beat the shit out of the big guy, but I think it was a very close call with the young man by the time he got to the hospital
Point of this story? Just because someone isn't using a gun or other weapon doesn't mean the results can't be deadly. Head injuries are quite possibly the most dangerous to receive because you can be killed easily by them, or worse end up a vegetable.
Trayvon was a racist punk and a thug that got shot in self defense. If they name an asteroid after him, they're just adding to the further glorification of the thug life.
The jury was stupid and wanted to see him walk. In the jury's mind they bought the character assassination waged on Martin leading up to the trial to where Martin was labeled a "thug" and "dope addict". This was even though it was Zimmerman who had the police record for violence and was using the mood altering drugs Adderall and Temazepam on the night he murdered Martin.
As can be seen right here on Slashdot there are those who even today are prepared to believe the worse about Blacks and are ready to give a pass to those like Zimmerman who say the right words and present a narrative that fulfills certain preconceived notions in their minds.
gosgog:
Trayvon, was a kid who from everything I have read was bad.....walking thru that particular neighborhood, was where he didn't belong. Zimmerman got suspicious and that led to the altercation on Trayvon's part. Now, you get me down and start banging my head on the pavement and I have a pistol...BANG YOU'RE DEAD..DAMN RIGHT!!
In this case a bunch of STUPID BLACKS tried to make it a RACIST CASE....it wasn't, the BLACKS WERE THE RACISTS & now for the most part in some states in the U.S., RACISM is mainly perpetrated by a lot of Blacks.
In this case Lowell are stupid.
A "Trayvon" asteroid? Can we pander any lower?
They should call it "Skittles".
27 year old black guy that is a neighborhood watch patrolman and had called in a suspicious character, and a dead 17 year old white kid dressed like a thug? Yeah, I don't think they would have had a problem with that.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Zimmerman followed Trayvon because he profiled him, partly based on race.
How could he tell he was black? My understanding is that he was wearing a hoodie. He could have been a gangsta wanna-be of any race.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Dershowitz said the second-degree murder case should never have gone to trial considering the flimsy evidence against Zimmerman. He also does not believe it was strong enough to be submitted to a jury for deliberation.
âoeIf the judge had any courage in applying the law, she never would have allowed the case to go to the jury,â Dershowitz told Newsmax. âoeShe should have entered a verdict based on reasonable doubt.â
Dershowitz singled out special prosecutor Angela Corey for âoedisciplinary action.â
He criticized the stateâ(TM)s probable-cause affidavit for not including evidence indicating Zimmerman could have been acting in self-defense, including graphic images of blood streaming from his scalp and nose.
âoeThe prosecutor had in her possession photographs that would definitely show a judge that this was not an appropriate case for second-degree murder,â the Harvard professor told Newsmax. âoeShe deliberately withheld and suppressed those photographs, refused to show them to the judge, got the judge to rule erroneously this was a second-degree murder case.
âoeThat violated a whole range of ethical, professional, and legal obligations that prosecutors have. Moreover, they withheld other evidence in the course of the pretrial and trial proceedings, as has been documented by the defense team,â he said.
Dershowitz described the prosecutionâ(TM)s attempt late in the case to add a third-degree murder charge by asserting the shooting constituted child abuse âoeso professionally irresponsible as to warrant sanctions and investigations.â
Dershowitz said various legal and bar association organizations could investigate how the state handled the prosecution. He added it could warrant a federal investigation as well.
âoeI think peopleâ(TM)s rights have been violated,â the famed attorney told Newsmax, âoebut it was the rights of the defendant and the defense team, by utterly unprofessional, irresponsible, and in my view criminal actions by the prosecutor,â he said.
Thinking that law abiding people carrying guns draws violence is dead wrong. Look at NYC and especially Chicago, thugs do carry guns, I think Chicago gov has restricted them beyond legal use. (Need to further research) criminals thrive there however. There's too much intentional misinfo for political/financial gain these days. Trayvon took foolish risks that led to his death, I am so sorry he had to die and wish a peaceful resolution would have taken place. But Lowell observatory? I always was intrigued by it and now their reputation is eternally tarnished for their ignorance of the black on white racial violence ravaging the nation. Although media outlets fail to report it and its 10x worse than white on black. Worldstar hip hop artists promote the violent mob culture. It's as if a dark force of evil is turning society against each other rampantly. Most are blind and vulnerable to it (mainstream/pop culture mind control?)
Check out, 'white girl bleed a lot' and things like FBI uniform crime stats if you don't believe the madness.
Everyone has a moral obligation to promote a peaceful and civil society. Please try to contribute to positive deeds and not support racially fueled matters, were in the 21st Century, were not savages!
Thanks for leniency in my broken grammar!
Looking at the mass of discussion, I think this will be relevant considering the subject matter of the article and discussion.
Before I start, dumb to name an asteroid after someone who made no contribution to the human race, especially since U believe he was guilty and got what he was asking for.
Now, onto my main point:
The Earth seems pretty big to us, right? Lots of land to squabble over, lots of reasons to hate the differences in people (no matter what skin color/beliefs you might have yourself). The Earth, when compared to the sun is actually quite tiny. The sun, as a star, is actually fairly small...indeed, compared to some stars, it is virtually to those stars as the Earth is to it. If not smaller than that comparison.
Even those super-massive stars are tiny compared to a Galaxy. And Galaxies are tiny when compared to the universe.
To sum this up; our petty hatreds and greed is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Humanity, as a whole, needs to grow up and end the sandbox fight we've been embroiled in since virtually the dawn of our race.
What's done is done. Stop trying to reignite the hatred.
I suppose you will also extend your analysis to the statement Gun ownership is Up, Violent crime is Up. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I suggest that you read John Lott, who goes to great lengths to look for more than just a rough correlation.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Look at NYC and especially Chicago, thugs do carry guns, I think Chicago gov has restricted them beyond legal use. (Need to further research) criminals thrive there however.
Unfortunately there's not much that can be done at the city, or even the state level to keep guns away from criminals since they can just buy them out of state. You need a controlled border that guns can't easily be carried across en mass.
I stole this Sig
And obviously stupidy non-sensical correlations are up. Wow.. talk about ridiculous. Libs want to ban guns because they are so dangerous.. the number of guns going up is actually a direct correlation according to DoJ and dozens of studies showing that the number 1 thing that causes a criminal to NOT commit a crime is the potential presence of a gun. Same reason that Crime is up in all but two small townships in the UK,.. and that the groundswell there is to re-legalize guns.. Number one argument?.. so that people can defend themselves. But that's okay... disregard the facts (as most libs do) and inject your semi-witty banter.
And obviously stupidy non-sensical correlations are up. Wow.. talk about ridiculous. Libs want to ban guns because they are so dangerous.. the number of guns going up is actually a direct correlation according to DoJ and dozens of studies showing that the number 1 thing that causes a criminal to NOT commit a crime is the potential presence of a gun. Same reason that Crime is up in all but two small townships in the UK,.. and that the groundswell there is to re-legalize guns.. Number one argument?.. so that people can defend themselves. But that's okay... disregard the facts (as most libs do) and inject your semi-witty banter.
Ohh the humanity! Look at all that Crime in the UK!
Yes, instead of my witty banter lets rely on your unimpeachable data consisting of a cherry picked example that doesn't even seem to be right, unnamed "studies", and reports by a non-scientific government agency (I'll trust their stats, but not their analysis).
Here's the one quick bit of info I found that suggests that there's isn't much correlation either way. Which isn't surprising, in most cases I'd expect guns to be dwarfed by socio-economic factors when it comes to crime, and it's hard to remove confounders from the data. Still, there's a piece of actual data for the null hypothesis.
I stole this Sig
What a crock of shit.