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Fixing Fukushima's Water Problem
Lasrick writes "This is an excellent analysis of exactly what the problems are at Fukushima, and what risks are posed to the public. From the article: 'The operator of Fukushima Daiichi, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), has worked hard and has indeed contained most of the significant contamination carried by water used to cool the plant’s damaged reactor cores. Still, a series of events—including significant leakage from tanks built to hold radioactive water—has eroded public confidence. To address the water challenges, an improved water management plan should be created to deal with all levels of contamination, from slightly contaminated groundwater to highly radioactive cooling water flowing out of the damaged cores. This plan needs to build on the many good Tepco efforts of the past two years, but it should also incorporate new technologies that improve water cleanup performance and increase processing capacities. Importantly, this plan needs to include a new level of transparency for and outreach to the Japanese public, so citizens can understand and have confidence in the ultimate solution to the Fukushima water problem, which will almost certainly require the release of water—treated so it conforms to Japanese and international radioactivity standards—into the sea.'"
This summary is hot garbage or a Tepco advertisement/PR damage control measure. They are beyond incompetent.
I believe they mean water with radioactive material dissolved in it. So you could remove the radioactive material by precipitating it out or RO membranes or something.
Well, going with theoretical solutions (for 200 Alex), I'd whip up a pneumatic robot (all fluidic pressure, no electronics), and strap on a chemical laser + fiber optic lines + lens system. That should ensure that stray radiation will not damage any electronics, as it won't have any, though it will be a one way trip for the bot (still going to be highly radioactive), and watching the cables will be an issue (better pay the extra money to make sure they're braided). Then I'd send it into the reactor core, to cut up / out the still active reactor rods, and bring them to a designated midway point piece by piece.
No human is going to survive in that core, even if they'd volunteer for the mission...nor would any electronic-based machine. The first will be cooked from the inside out, the second will get so many errors as it gets closer to the core from radiation hitting its processors that it will do more damage than good.
I am John Hurt.
That's nice. It's also irrelevant. The Fukushima reactor did not use heavy water. The problem here is coolant/moderator ordinary light water that is heavily contaminated with dissolved radioactive materials.
If the water molecules themselves were radioactive then you would be right, however AIUI the majority of radioactivity in the wastewater from a contaminanted nuclear site like chernobyl or fukushima or even sellafield comes from disolved contaminents not from the water itself and those contaminants can be seperated from water.
you still have to store the crap you take out of the water and probablly come contaminated membranes but that is likely much easier than storing massive ammounts of water.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Duh. Ya think, TEPCO shitheads?
It isn't precisely the phrasing I would use. Every shred of public confidence was lost on 2011-3-11 and the few days following, and nothing done since has restored a single iota of it.
Cement might not be the best option, but I agree that's something along the right lines.
I was actually thinking gelatin, or some other coagulant, which would entrap the contaminants preventing further leakage without preventing future recovery and processing (you can re-melt gelatin). If the goal is to halt the leaking, something along those lines seems like a potential solution.
=Smidge=
So they are protecting us from over 60% of the contaminated water. Well good job then, 60% is a passing grade, so I guess this means they are doing a good job.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Jell-O brand would like to warn the gelatin loving populace out there that "Gell-O" is not part of the Jell-O brand family, and especially not to trust the "Happy Midday Glow Lime" flavor, as it is actually highly radioactive.
No, zeolite is essentially filtering medium, similar to activated charcoal.
I'm talking about actually coagulating the contaminated water to prevent it from leaking out. Then you could scoop it out and re-liquefy it for processing.
=Smidge=
As I recall, the traditional way involved wearing a white robe and holding a knife in your hand while your trusted second stood behind you with his sword drawn, ready to finish the job.
The modern way seems to involve holding a press conference in which you say "Gosh, we don't know how that went wrong. It certainly wasn't our fault. I hope it doesn't happen again. Again." while your trusted second brings you a coffee.
I'm sure that one of those approaches will suffice to restore TEPCO's spotless public image.
In fact they don't know where the core is!
It could be in the lower parts of the building, but most likely much of it has melted down far into the ground. How far, nobody knows. It may be in the water table. There is sporadic evidence of ongoing fission at the sites.
They neither have it under control, nor contained.
...and Fukushima is a perfect example.
In the months following the incident, the press was hyping the accident to ethereal levels.
In the years following the incident, the US nuclear industry groups busily developed counter propaganda, using official measurements and downplaying risks ("1% greater chance of dying from cancer for 77 people") and the like. Carefully written op-ed and science pieces appeared all over the press from the Smart Serious People in the room, to soothe a worried public, that their superior assessment of the situation proved the concerns of pollution would become cautionary tales of hysteria.
The Japanese government deliberately withheld information until after the election, and now the pollution levels emanating form the plant render many the carefully written, I-told-you-it-was-hysteria explanations, riddled in Smug by the Serious Persons seem pretty silly, if not entertaining, to read.
If anything can be drawn from all this, it is, "It ain't over till it's over..."
The water itself is not radioactive, it's the stuff dissolved in the water that's the problem. Remove the solute and you have harmless non-radioactive water.
The water will be safe LONG before that. The worst of the stuff in the water has a 30 year half life.
However, simple distillation (noting that simple is a relative term when dealing with radiation at that level) would be a better choice since that would greatly reduce the volume of waste to store.
The water will be safe LONG before that. The worst of the stuff in the water has a 30 year half life.
However, simple distillation (noting that simple is a relative term when dealing with radiation at that level) would be a better choice since that would greatly reduce the volume of waste to store.
So, now you want to cook water with radioactive materials in it? Considering TEPCO's safety record with radioactive steam, I know exactly what would happen here. Perhaps there are non-heating ways to distill the water, though.
However some of that radioactive material is tritium, which is nearly impossible to separate from regular water. (Yes, gas vapor centrifuges can probably do it, but not for the amount of water they have to deal with.) Tritium has a half-life of 12ish years, so letting it sit around for a while is still the best way to go.
The real issue is that TEPCO cannot even sit on radioactive material without messing it up, much less run a reactor or cleaning system with moving parts.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Still here. Note that in spite of nearly incredible incompetence from all concerned, still nobody dead.
Yet. It will be some time before the increased mortality from this incident is known.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
They are already using zeolite cartridges to filter radioactive cesium out of contaminated water at Fukushima. One system is called "SARRY", there are others from various manufacturers including Areva. Handling the used cartridges is done by a remote crane system, not very complex engineering. The zeolite is jacketed in a steel container which blocks nearly all of the radiation from the cesium they collect, a few grammes at most per cylinder.
Japan has a better solution to dealing with nuclear waste than Yucca Mountain or indeed the defence-waste WIPP in New Mexico. It has built and is operating a spent fuel recycling plant at Rokkaisho capable of dealing with about 800 tonnes of spent fuel a year and reducing the amount of waste to 1% or so of the original material.
Fuel rods are only kept in pools (not moon pools, they are something different) for a few years until the heat produced by radioactive decay of fission isotopes has fallen to the point where the fuel rods can be either recycled as France, Japan, Russia and the UK do, stored in dry casks (the current US solution to cope with the lack of a burial store option) or prepared for deep geological disposal as in other countries like Finland.