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Court Declares Google Must Face Wiretap Charges For Wi-Fi Snooping

New submitter Maser_24 writes with news about continued action against Google for snooping on unsecured Wi-Fi networks when collecting data for Street View. From the article: "A federal appeals court this week ruled that Google could be held liable for civil damages for the company's 2011 scandal involving the company's collection of Wi-Fi data from unsecured hotspots using their Street View vehicles. To come to that conclusion, the court followed a rather unique logic path; according to the court, unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' to the general public and therefore Google violated the Wiretap Act." This despite being cleared of wrongdoing by the FCC.

214 comments

  1. Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now charge the NSA for requesting that they do that.

    1. Re:Good. by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah how about trying "We were ordered to do it by the US government and we can't give you details because a) national security and b) gag order". Seems to work for the government, why can't it work for Google?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Good. by slash.jit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also Why not have lawsuits against NSA and force them to pay the civil damages for spying on american people.

    3. Re:Good. by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      How about just charge the NSA in general for illegal spying?

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    4. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Launch a class suit for emotional distress for the 300 million people.

    5. Re:Good. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Yeah how about trying "We were ordered to do it by the US government and we can't give you details because a) national security and b) gag order". Seems to work for the government, why can't it work for Google?

      Because the government will be able to declare in court that they didn't do it, and Google won't have proof that they did?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    6. Re:Good. by Ioldanach · · Score: 1

      Yeah how about trying "We were ordered to do it by the US government and we can't give you details because a) national security and b) gag order". Seems to work for the government, why can't it work for Google?

      Because the government will be able to declare in court that they didn't do it, and Google won't have proof that they did?

      That's covered, because the gag order gags itself, so you can't show it to the court.

    7. Re:Good. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      At this point I don't even care if Google did it on purpose (probably not, seems like a classic "testing code left in production version" mistake), this is like going after a guy who stole a bottle of Thunderbird instead of Bernie Madoff.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    8. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see what happens Larry? You see what happens? This is what happens when PR tries to *#+! the NSA in the ass, Larry!

    9. Re:Good. by CreatureComfort · · Score: 1

      Like who is going to believe the government these days?

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
    10. Re:Good. by Bigby · · Score: 2

      Ironically, the Constitution only disallows the government (including the NSA) from broad wiretapping (illegal search). The private wiretapping laws are just laws...not the supreme law of the land. So being ordered to do it by the US government would make the breaking of the law even more blatant and damaging.

    11. Re:Good. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      Next time could you please wipe the residue off before you post something that you pulled out of your ass. Thanks in advance on the behalf of informed, educated, intelligent people everywhere.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    12. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because gag-orders aren't legal and worked for the government trough a failure of the legal system.
      While I expect the legal system to fail again if the government asks I wouldn't count on it when it comes to private companies.

    13. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is why they are being threatened because they hinted the NSA ask them do things like

    14. Re:Good. by egamma · · Score: 1

      Yeah how about trying "We were ordered to do it by the US government and we can't give you details because a) national security and b) gag order". Seems to work for the government, why can't it work for Google?

      Because they've had 2 years to make that argument, and making it now isn't credible?

    15. Re: Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pot meet kettle

    16. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, the FISA Amendement provides immunity to communications and internet companies acting on behalf on the NSA. I wouldn't be suprised if Obama claimed state secrets and shut down the civil suit.

      Moreover, do gag orders apply when giving testimony or deposition?

    17. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well they couldn't make that argument earlier, could they? Because of the gag order, of course!

    18. Re:Good. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The court. That's all it takes.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    19. Re:Good. by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Yeah how about trying "We were ordered to do it by the US government and we can't give you details because a) national security and b) gag order". Seems to work for the government, why can't it work for Google?

      Because they've had 2 years to make that argument, and making it now isn't credible?

      Not to mention, this is the LAST thing Google would want to do right now -- they're trying to show that they're not in bed with the US government; making this claim would basically be admitting that everything they do is suspect and is likely controlled by the US government. Better to pay the fine and possibly land a nice big government contract for consulting services.

    20. Re:Good. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I have my doubts about that, especially for a federal court.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    21. Re:Good. by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      My Question Why hasn't the Supreme court stepped in? They dont need an invite when they see our constitution being broken its there jobs as well to protect our constitution Any Judge,Police,congressman/woman Has the responsibility to bring charges to any court.They all takes oaths to protect our constitution

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    22. Re:Good. by Bigby · · Score: 1

      Please educate me. What in the US Constitution allows the government to "wiretap" (search). And what in the US Constitution disallows a private company to "wiretap"? The only reason a private company cannot is because of Congressional Law, which is subordinate to the US Constitution.

    23. Re:Good. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Now you have rephrased what you wrote:and changed it on a fundamental level. Your original post said: "Ironically, the Constitution only disallows the government (including the NSA) from broad wiretapping (illegal search)." - Emphasis added.

      The fifth amendment applies equally to broad and directed wiretapping. Now that you have written something that clarifies what you were trying to say I don't disagree with your new characterization of the law, with the exception that there are no laws that are "just" laws. Your statement amounts to a paraphrasing of Orwell, to wit, all laws are created equal, but some are more equal than others. Sadly, I would go so far as to say that the laws you are calling "just" laws actually carry much more weight today than the ones you call "the supreme law of the land."

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    24. Re:Good. by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      Sovereign Immunity. See Wiki article.

      The Federal Government is only susceptible to a civil action against it if the Government creates a specific exception to sovereign immunity. You might bring a civil liberties claim (1983) but that's going to require proof that the agent or agents knew what they were doing was unconstitutional - the law must be well established - generally anything that requires an appeal to decide the state of the law is going to auto-fail there.

    25. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The POTUS/Supreme court is already purchased by another company. They only overturn judgements for that particular company and make all other companies a pain.

    26. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't the Bivens case establish that you do not need specific permission to bring a case in cases of constitutional violations?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivens_v._Six_Unknown_Named_Agents

    27. Re:Good. by penix1 · · Score: 1

      The 4th Amendment allows the government to wiretap as long as a warrant has been sought.

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      With restrictions, the US Government can wiretap. Further, see

      Olmstead v. United States

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmstead_v._United_States

      and Katz v. United States

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katz_v._United_States

      In the Olmstead case, the courts upheld the Federal Government's argument that wiretapping doesn't require a warrant. In Katz, that ruling was overturned.

      The NSA case remains at odds with these two cases since FISA is in play.

      Private companies are governed by both federal and state privacy laws such as the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 U.S.C. 2510 et. seq.) That authority comes from Article 4:

      This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    28. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks, Keith.

    29. Re:Good. by weiserfireman · · Score: 1

      Also Why not have lawsuits against NSA and force them to pay the civil damages for spying on american people.

      What the NSA was doing was approved via a Warrant by the FISA Courts

      This wasn't a case of the NSA going off and doing something unsupervised, they requested and had permission from US Judges for what they were doing.

      As such, they would probably be immune from damages

    30. Re:Good. by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      No. As I said above, you may bring a civil liberties claim under Section 1983, but that's going to have to be a claim against the agents (see Correctional Services Corp. v. Malesk) - not the NSA - and its going to have to show that they knowingly violated your rights. This is dead in the water.

    31. Re:Good. by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      I just noticed that the renderer ate my special ascii character for Section in my post above -- should read "You might bring a civil liberties claim (Section 1983) but that's . . ." my bad.

    32. Re:Good. by sjames · · Score: 2

      Actually, according to the FISA court, not all of the NSA's actions were authorized. The court then went on to state that the NSA was beyond their ability to control it since it was lying to them freely.

    33. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure about the "knowingly" part?

      Let's look at the recent revelations about the NSA: Clapper may very well be a loser here because he was caught lying to Congress about the details of the NSA programs (which would, at least to me, imply he knew they were or likely to be illegal), but wouldn't it be rather difficult to prove the "knowingly" part? How do people prove suits regarding their civil rights if all of the people in charge go up on the stand and claim they thought they were following the text of the Constitution? Yet suits against government or its agents have succeeded on numerous occasions, how do you explain that? Clearly it's not as hard as you would have us believe.

      Furthermore, the case you cited re: Correctional Services Corp v Malesk is merely just a clarification that private corporations employed as contractors to the government are not covered under Bivens; it does not (in my limited non-layer reading) affect actions brought directly against the government or its direct employees.

    34. Re:Good. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1
      The fourth amendment doesn't treat them equally.

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    35. Re:Good. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Which is immaterial, since the fourth amendment carries no weight in 2013. I don't like it any more than you do, but lets not pretend that the US we have and the US we are supposed to have are anything other than two completely different worlds.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    36. Re:Good. by weiserfireman · · Score: 1

      Some legal professors, who know more than I do, think the court was a little insane with their suggestion that the NSA was lying to them

      http://www.volokh.com/2013/09/11/fisa-uncanny-valley-article-iii/

    37. Re:Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This wasn't a case of the NSA going off and doing something unsupervised, they requested and had permission from US Judges for what they were doing.

      You need to keep up with the story. Not only did they admit to that very same court that they'd messed up several times, the court had also given them some specific things to NOT do which they then proceeded to go ahead and do anyhow.

      Basically every time they open their mouths and make a claim, evidence shows up which disproves it. At this point it's got so far out of hand they can't say anything which doesn't either directly contradict something they already claimed, or expose new wrongdoing. And it's not just things they've said to the public, it includes what they've been telling Congress AND the secret courts.

      I need some more popcorn, back in a bit.

    38. Re:Good. by sjames · · Score: 1

      We know for a fact that they lied to congress and to the press, why not to the FISA court? In for a penny...

      As for the link, the writing is thoughtful, but I must respectfully disagree. The very fact that the data was collected at all prior to authorization is a problem. That in itself is not at all standard procedure for anything of this nature. The police don't get to search your house without suspicion, photograph everything and put it in a sealed box promising to only open it if they later suspect you of a crime and get a warrant. It just doesn't work that way anywhere else. They don't get to post someone at your house to text them if someone on the list should show up without first having some articulable reason to believe that such a person will show up and that you are part of their criminal activities. And they certainly don't get to do that and then get a warrant to open the box of pre-collected unspecified evidence.

      So yes, the government's position most certainly does strain credulity.

      Meanwhile, I don't buy that the techies were unaware that statistical analysis of data requires access to that data. I don't buy that experts in data analysis were unaware that re-constructing a dataset by accessing analysis of the original dataset is a form of access to the original dataset.

      I interpreted 'the wall' as a prudent condition to an authorization that was a little far into a gray area for the judge's comfort. Essentially he was authorizing something that he wasn't 100% sure he should be and was imposing the wall to mitigate any damage that the authorization might cause. Further that the alternative was to deny the authorization in order to remain on firm legal ground.

      Meanwhile, we have learned about their 'three hops' rule of thumb and about analysts accessing the dataset for purely personal reasons with nothing like authorization. That along with lies told to congress, to me, lends creedence to the idea that the NSA is out of control.

    39. Re:Good. by shentino · · Score: 1

      So charge the NSA attorneys that got the warrants with perjury.

      "Supported by oath or affirmation" after all.

    40. Re:Good. by sjames · · Score: 1

      What warrants?

    41. Re:Good. by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I see you slept through Civics class.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    42. Re:Good. by GodInHell · · Score: 1
      Yes. Pretty damn sure.

      I don't do research for folks that are not my clients (and no, you are not my client); however, many scholars do. See, for example, The Personal Liability of the Public Sector Administrator Pursuant To 42 U.S.C. Section 1983

      Section 1983 liability, it is essential to emphasize, punishes only purposeful "deprivations" of constitutional rights. If a case involves only the negligent infliction of a legal wrong by a public official, administrator, employee, or agency, the action is governed by the Federal Tort Claims Act or a comparable state statute, which may create an exception (that is, a "waiver") to the traditional doctrine of sovereign immunity.

      There are other remedies under Section 1983 (e.g. injunctions - an order of court directing the government to stop violating your rights), but damages only come from a knowing violation of your rights. And again, as here, where it takes an appeal to decide the law (note that the appeal actually overturned the ruling of the judge below - hence - showing the state of the law was genuinely in doubt) then the individual gov't agents are probably home free.

      Remember, I'm not your lawyer. Your issue (if any) may have specific facts or circumstances that should be reviewed by an attorney retained for that purpose. I'm including this text to make it clear that I'm not giving you legal advice, just stating my view of the law. My state bar association recommends doing so to avoid giving the impressionism that I, as an attorney, have given you specific advice.

    43. Re:Good. by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      I'm 57 we didn't have civic classes and during high school i had a halfday of tech school. So enlighten me please.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    44. Re:Good. by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      Damn i should have did a little research before my comment .

      I found this link
      http://www.icivics.org/subject/judicial-branch

      This is the first words in the judicial branch

      The judicial branch includes the nation’s courts, whose job it is to ensure the government follows the law.

      So what did i misstate?

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    45. Re:Good. by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you've defiantly found the authority on the topic, not.

      The SCOTUS doesn't just step in, ever. Cases are brought to them, and almost always by already having been tried through a lower court and then appealed.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    46. Re:Good. by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      Whats with the asshole reply? why cant anyone here just answer or ask a question without having you treated like a dumb-ass oh i forgot this is slashdot . And just because they dont just step in doesn't mean they shouldn't or cant. Where the written law stating they dont have to? Or a better authority Smartass

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
  2. So let me get this straight... by SBJ95 · · Score: 1

    Federal government wiretaps Google, no problem. Google "wiretaps", federal government throws a hissyfit.

    1. Re:So let me get this straight... by iserlohn · · Score: 1

      The government isn't just one guy you know.

    2. Re:So let me get this straight... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      gubbimt... simultaneously the smartest guys EVAR and the dumbest people in the room.

      Incapable of doing anything correctly and still able to commit the biggest conspiracies ever known.

      People dislike government... that's fine, but try to have some clarity in your thinking. If you think it through maybe you'll see it's not an all or nothing problem. Take the powers away that need to be taken away and give the ones that are needed to keep a decent society.

    3. Re:So let me get this straight... by P-niiice · · Score: 1

      put the 4,857,326 people on trial and give them community service after paying a small fee down at the window over there

    4. Re:So let me get this straight... by P-niiice · · Score: 1

      Government is Americans so your whole post it idiocy unless you feel that way about America as a whole.

    5. Re:So let me get this straight... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Of course not; you need more than one guy for a conspiracy ;-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    6. Re:So let me get this straight... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Government is Americans so your whole post it idiocy unless you feel that way about America as a whole."

      No it isn't. Government is elected officials. We live in a Republic, not a Democracy.

      Very obviously, we've been electing the wrong officials. The people elected have been too much politician, not enough actual leader.

    7. Re:So let me get this straight... by P-niiice · · Score: 1

      Yeahhhh, like the right makes any distinction in their hatred of workers of all types, ESPECIALLY government workers....

    8. Re:So let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government isn't just one guy you know.

      But Zaphod is just this guy, you know?

    9. Re:So let me get this straight... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      No it isn't. Government is elected officials

      BZZZZZZT. False. The vast majority of the government consists of unelected bureaucrats.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    10. Re:So let me get this straight... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "The vast majority of the government consists of unelected bureaucrats."

      True, but it doesn't matter because they WORK FOR the elected bureaucrats.

    11. Re:So let me get this straight... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      "The vast majority of the government consists of unelected bureaucrats."

      True, but it doesn't matter because they WORK FOR the elected bureaucrats.

      Actually, it does matter, because those who are elected hold little power over the career bureaucrats. Non-elected bureaucrats have huge amounts of power here (I live in the DC burbs).

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  3. You Can't Do That! by Petersko · · Score: 1

    You can't do that - that's the govern... no. You know what? I'm better than that. Somebody else can take the low hanging fruit.

    1. Re:You Can't Do That! by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Since this is the 3rd comment on the post and all three comments are basically that, I would say the low-hanging fruit is rapidly being devoured...

    2. Re:You Can't Do That! by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      I'd say the tree fell over and all the fruit is near the ground.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  4. Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the government wiretaps everything and everyone.

  5. The hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When are we taking our government to court for spying on all citizens?

    1. Re:The hypocrisy by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      When are we taking our government to court for spying on all citizens?

      Only when it lets us, meaning, when hell freezes over.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:The hypocrisy by camperdave · · Score: 0

      You are. Google is a false front for the NSA. That's why this case will disappear.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:The hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sovereign immunity doesn't apply when there is a constitutional question though. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_cause_of_action and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivens_v._Six_Unknown_Named_Agents.

  6. SO ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What ??

  7. no no no.... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bad logic that is favorable to your agenda is still bad logic.

    Twisting logic is what I get mad at the "other guy" for. Don't tolerate it.

    1. Re:no no no.... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Bad logic that is favorable to your agenda is still bad logic.

      Twisting logic is what I get mad at the "other guy" for. Don't tolerate it."

      It isn't bad logic if you understand what this is about.

      Privacy laws are generally based on "intent", and "reasonable expectation of privacy". Sometimes those things intersect, sometimes they are at odds.

      The LOCATION of a wifi router is pretty much accepted as public information. Here is a router. It transmits. It sends out its MAC address.

      The CONTENT of the data it sends, however, is a different matter.

      For many years, a large percentage of the population -- possibly even the majority -- did not know or care enough about the details of WiFi communication to secure their routers. Because that was true of so many people, it can be argued that it was "reasonable" for them to expect that their communications were private.

      If their communications were intended to be private (i.e., it wasn't intended to be an open access point with a name like "Come Get Me, I'm Free!", and there was a "reasonable expectation of privacy" (again reasonable being inferred from the simple fact that it was true of so many people), THEN Google was illegally intercepting private communications.

      You and I might think that not bothering to learn enough about it to know you should secure your router is not reasonable. But that's not the way the law works. If an "average" person commonly does it, it's considered reasonable.

    2. Re:no no no.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please read this comment below: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4197311&cid=44819341 basically a previous ruling that police can intercept a wireless phone without a warrant would break your line of thought on intent

    3. Re:no no no.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For many years, a large percentage of the population -- possibly even the majority -- did not know or care enough about the details of WiFi communication to secure their routers. Because that was true of so many people, it can be argued that it was "reasonable" for them to expect that their communications were private. .. If an "average" person commonly does it, it's considered reasonable.

      That's the problem. A majority of people believing something absurd, doesn't cause that to be a conclusion reached through the use of reason; it's "reasonable" only in a legal technical jargon sense of that word. It's totally acceptable for people to "not know or not care about the details" (I can't even begin to enumerate all the things for which that applies to me!) but that ought to exclude their opinions from the set of reasonable opinions.

      If most people think that shouting things in the public town square are private communications, and then they shout things in the town square with the intent to privately tell someone something, that doesn't mean those people have a "reasonable expectation" that it's private, in the laymen's sense of those words. The opinions only become reasonable when people think about how shouting protects their privacy. ("If everyone shouted all the time, we'd all get sick of hearing everyone's shouts and unconsciously start spamfiltering, and eventually the public would become psychologically deaf. Ergo, shouting causes the message to be private." Now that's reasonable! Wrong, but reasonable. ;-)

      What's particularly outrageous about the silly way the law looks at this, is that it makes "reasonable" become more stupid with time. You don't have to go back many years, before you run into the "average person" not even knowing what wifi is, or having any opinion whatsoever about it. If you would ask a random person on the street in 2003 "is unsecured wifi private?" you would most likely get "I don't have a fucking clue, nerd. Are you trying to embarrass me by asking me questions about Star Trek or Lord of the Rings or whatever this Wifi place is? How would you like if I started smugly asking you questions about who was on American Idol?" as your answer. Of the people who don't give the "I don't know" answer, you'd probably get a majority opinion that it's public, not private. So you've got this weird situation where people are somehow expected to stay up-to-date on how stupidly half-informed people are, since the more well-known it is, the less people know about it, and therefore what is "reasonable" (legal jargon usage) can be unpredictable.

      It gets even worse: Google can afford to have someone looking over their shoulders, polling the public (shit, their own robots pretty much already do that) to find out stupid-opinions-du-jour and keeping their engineers out of trouble. Most people don't have that luxury. So now we've got this ostensibly anti-corporate decision, which is really pro-corporate welfare.

      You simply can't have a just system, based on this way of doing things. This kind of decision is bad news for pretty much everyone, except those whose means of income is derived from suing.

      And on top of that, it's not going to fix anyone's wifi, so it does nothing to help actual privacy. It's lose lose lose all around. A pro-privacy agenda (and ok, maybe it's not suitable for courts to have such an agenda) would have ruled in Google's favor, saying those people didn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, just like everyone else who doesn't encrypt doesn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, thereby putting it in everyone's face, that they don't have and can't have privacy, until they start actually giving a fuck and doing something about it.

    4. Re:no no no.... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Please read this comment below: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4197311&cid=44819341 basically a previous ruling that police can intercept a wireless phone without a warrant would break your line of thought on intent"

      I am familiar with the ruling, but it flies in the face of precedent.

      Bad rulings happen. That was one of them.

  8. The system works? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I told you so!

  9. Terrible Ruling by laing · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unencrypted RF communications should be fair game for anyone to receive and record. The fact that it's digital seems to be what swayed the judges in this case. I can't for the life of me understand how this could have happened. I'm not in favor Google's actions, but they were not illegal. Now the law has been twisted and there will be unintended consequences.

    1. Re:Terrible Ruling by Albanach · · Score: 1

      I can't for the life of me understand how this could have happened.

      You could try reading the opinion. The judges do explain their reasoning.

      It goes something like this.

      "Radio communication" is not defined in the Act's definitions section.

      To define it the court uses predetermined rules of construction - the idea being to ensure people reading an act of Congress should be able to anticipate how it will be interpreted.

      In this instance they use the ordinary meaning of the word "radio communication" at the time Congress passed the Act, and look to Congress's other actions for additional guidance.

      The court held that "radio communication" at that time would commonly be intended to refer to stuff like radio shows on FM. he court acknowledges that lots of other things happen with radio, and sees that Congress has not typically assumed "radio" to also encompass things such as television broadcasts.

      Therefore the court believes that, when Congress passed the act, they were only thinking about audio radio broadcasts.

      Of course you can disagree with their reasoning, but as for how they got there, the reasoning itself is pretty well explained.

    2. Re:Terrible Ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unencrypted RF communications should be fair game for anyone to receive and record. The fact that it's digital seems to be what swayed the judges in this case. I can't for the life of me understand how this could have happened.

      "unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' to the general public"
      What part of that don't you understand? Accessing a radio signal requires two things -- a compatible radio, and the knowledge of how to use it. You and I have the technical knowledge to use the 2.4GHz radios we have to access such signals, but the general public, despite having mostly the same 2.4 GHz radios (Yeah, I have a WiSpy and an Ubertooth One and stuff, but those aren't what I'd use for an 802.11b/g/n AP anyhow), don't have the know-how, so they have created an expectation of privacy through their own ignorance!

      (Actually, it's more to do with the judge interpretating "radio communication" to only mean audio signals, but I like the preceding version better.)

    3. Re:Terrible Ruling by chuckinator · · Score: 1

      Seconded. Google isn't the paragon of perfection that many believe them to be, but they are better than a majority of the industry players, but this is a bogus charge. If you want your data secure, then secure it. Insurance companies won't pay for stolen vehicle claims when the driver leaves the keys in the ignition with the doors unlocked, and Google shouldn't be smacked for receiving a signal that is broadcast to everyone in cleartext through the ether. This is really just an excuse for some tort lawyers to rake in a payday, not send a message to people to be morally correct in their business dealings.

      User admin with password admin on SSID linksys in the wild is as incompetent than simply failing to install doorknobs and deadbolts on your house. I understand that everyone can't be an expert at everything, but you should atleast consult with someone that does know the basics to help you install your wi-fi router with the minimum security enabled.

    4. Re:Terrible Ruling by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Which, I presume, means a very poor understanding of radio. Would Morse Code have not been radio communication? Because it's digital (trinary), unencrypted, and not a commercial broadcast.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:Terrible Ruling by Zironic · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with how radio works, they give no fucks, it has everything with what the user of the radio expects. Laws are by and large written to apply to people, not technology.

    6. Re:Terrible Ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't for the life of me understand how this could have happened.

      Read the ruling, it's quite readable and clear.
      Google appealled, claiming that the original verdict was wrong because their case ought to fall under an exemption to the law.
      The judges said no, your case does not fall under that exemption to the law. That exemption is to ensure no one can get prosecuted for accidentally picking up police radio on their radio, not for accidentally picking up a radio signal, recognising it as a digital signal, then converting the analogue signal to digital form and storing the digital data.

      In other words: there exists an exemption for radio signals. The judges ruled that RF signals are not the same thing - e.g. people watch TV, not radio. So that particular exemption does not apply, and thus none of the arguments of Google were found sufficient to overturn the verdict.

      Note that the judges did not say the verdict was correct -- but it is not wrong for the reasons Google claimed it was.

    7. Re:Terrible Ruling by intermodal · · Score: 1

      Well, considering both the FCC and common sense agree, let's hope the appeal fixes this nonsense. Even better if it dismisses the whole case as without merit.

      I'm not a fan of what Google was doing, but it's not Google's responsibility to treat publicly accessible networks as sacred. It's the responsibility of the access point's owner to secure the thing.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    8. Re:Terrible Ruling by lgw · · Score: 1

      Courts don't, will never, and should never care about geeky details about how technology works. That's supremely unimportant. What's important is the intent of the humans involved, and the pre-established rules for resolving cases where intent is unclear.

      The court ruled, quite reasonably IMO, that the congress meant specifically commercial-style public broadcasts, which home wifi isn't.

      More importantly, just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing. An unsecured wifi is not an invitation. The geeky details simply don't matter. You must judge whether the owner intended you to have access. That's usually pretty clear in practice.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Terrible Ruling by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      There is precedent in the special restrictions placed on recording analog cell phone communication which were/are freely audible in the clear with a suitable tuner*. The solution of the powers that be was to classify recordings of cell phone traffic as equivalent to wiretaps. They are extending that analogy to intercepting wifi data, even that which is purposely broadcast for the purpose of network discovery and identification.

      Curiously, the government now doesn't want this concept of "reasonable expectation" of privacy for voice cell phone communication to be applied to e-mail and other electronic communication under the contrary presumption that they are just the equivalent to the exposed cover of a mailed letter. Naturally a corrupt government doesn't want their citizens to have the same power to set up a radio for recording the activities of corrupt government officials that the government enjoys for recording their citizens.

      *Most multi-band radios made until the late-80s could readily tune in analog cell traffic as could older televisions able to select channels 70-83.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    10. Re:Terrible Ruling by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 1

      In my personal opinion, it was wrong, not because it was digital, but because of the scale they executed at. It would have been just as bad if they had driven around with audio microphones and recorded snippets of everbody's voice and put all of that on the Internet.

      In fact, I fail to see why Google should get a pass on this, when we all clearly see the problems with NSA doing the same, but on fiber. Oh, and don't get me started on Street View.

    11. Re:Terrible Ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While the insurance company might not pay, the car thief is still charged.

    12. Re:Terrible Ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An unsecured wifi is not an invitation.

      Except is by definition. It announces itself and invites everyone who is listening.

    13. Re:Terrible Ruling by lgw · · Score: 1

      No, you're obsessing on the unimportant geeky details. Only a human can invite. Sometimes that's the intent of an open WiFi, sometimes not. You should determine the owner's intent before using it (which is usually obvious from circumstance).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    14. Re:Terrible Ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this guy up.

      Cases worth pointing out:
      - when you go to a cafe with free WiFi, you're told that it is there and free to use and how to connect to it
      - if you're in Google WiFi territory, again it has been announced publicly as to what it is

      Now when you see a new WiFi SSID that you don't know what it is and (say) belongs to your neighbour but they haven't told you that you can use it, are you free to use it? No and they could probably sue you for theft or some such if they could prove that you did.

      In almost every case that is worth talking about, password-less WiFi that has its SSID announced and is there for public use is advertised as such somewhere. That the people across the street from you didn't set a password does not amount to them giving you permission to use their WiFi.

    15. Re:Terrible Ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So intent is everything? We can't have that. Lets take a more blatant example:

      I store some loaded guns outside my house - out in the open. It is my intent that nobody touches them though. That is really obvious from circumstances, for I put up a sign saying "don't touch any of my loaded guns."

      Now, some guy took a gun and robbed a bank with it. And a child (old enough to read) picked up another gun, and shot another child. Surely you cannot claim criminal negligence here - for my intent was clear enough . . .

      Someone using an unencrypted wifi is similiar to someone talking loud on his mobile phone in a public space. There is no privacy in either case. My equipment might receive the radio transmissions. My ears might hear the secret plans shouted into that phone. I might act on what I hear, even if he did not intend for me to hear. But he was stupid enough to yell into a phone in a crowded public place . . .

       

    16. Re:Terrible Ruling by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      No, you're obsessing on the unimportant geeky details. Only a human can invite. Sometimes that's the intent of an open WiFi, sometimes not. You should determine the owner's intent before using it (which is usually obvious from circumstance).

      And remember that even if you join an unsecured WiFi network, your computer will _not_ automatically process any information that is intended for others joining the same network. If someone sends an email, for example, there will be network traffic, and your computer is technically capable of receiving it, but it will ignore because it isn't the intended recipient.

    17. Re:Terrible Ruling by tibman · · Score: 1

      I use almost all public wifi i can find. If i see an open SSID in my phone, then it is okay to connect and use it. It's also fine for whoever owns the network to peek at the data i'm sending over it : ) If either party puts up encryption then that is where the privacy line was drawn.

      I don't need a silly sign posted anywhere about free wifi. My phone/tablet/laptop will let me know when it's free.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    18. Re:Terrible Ruling by lgw · · Score: 1

      I expect you're the same way with door handles.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    19. Re:Terrible Ruling by tibman · · Score: 1

      lol, pretty much. I explore public spaces a lot but respect any "do not enter" type of signs. I also routinely use the ladies latrine if the guys is full. The Guy/Girl signs seem more like directions than rules : )

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    20. Re:Terrible Ruling by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, if your local culture is tolerant of such things, that would explain a lot. If not, well, actions have consequences.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    21. Re:Terrible Ruling by tibman · · Score: 1

      Natural Explorers : )

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
  10. Not radio communications? WTF?! by killfixx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's exactly what this is... In no uncertain terms!

    Fuck... Pot, meet Kettle...

    WiFi is explicitly radio... and it's readily accessible without any intervention on the users behalf...

    I regularly connect to unsecured hotspots without even meaning to...

    Blah...

    I can't even express how utterly exasperated I am with our government...and the people that keep them in office...

    God damn...

    Well, there's one thing our government is good at, learning from past mistakes... Those gladiatorial games were great inspiration for our current raft of "populace pacification techniques"... TV, sports, and (to a lesser extent) religion...

    When will we wake up... When will the common man stand his ground and tell those in power to go fuck themselves? When?

    --
    "Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
    1. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you had RTFA you would have realized that the use of the words "radio communications" are not every day vernacular, but specifically mean communications like AM/FM broadcasts and the like. Its more of a legal definition.

      This is honestly a good thing, and corresponds with previous legal rulings. If WIFI was a "radio communication" you would have no expectation of privacy under the 4th amendment and the FBI et al. could intercept it at will.

    2. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      It's less like CB radios or police bands, and more like early cordless phones and baby monitors, which were unencrypted but people also assume, reasonably, to be private.

      The physical matter of how easy it is differs from whether there is an expectation. Unencrypted WiFi and friends falls under that.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > When will the common man stand his ground and tell those in power to go fuck themselves? When?

      Are you really that angry that the "big bad government" is taking issue with Google riding around and sniffing traffic on unencrypted wireless networks? on a MASSIVE scale?

    4. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      What idiot thinks unsecured wifi is private? Same for baby monitors cordless phones etc. It's one thing if it's trivially encrypted.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    5. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Cordless phones are fair game

    6. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are at least two problems with this "new" interpretation:

      1) Making it illegal to listen to radio broadcasts means that the public won't learn the lesson and will leave their broadcast unencrypted - ripe for NSA picking.

      2) Broadcasts, such as police radar, will be illeagal to listen to.

      I'm sure there are plenty of other unintended consequences of this stupid interpretation.

    7. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      When will we wake up... When will the common man stand his ground and tell those in power to go fuck themselves? When?

      Historically, these things don't change with the common man. In 1775, about 17-18% of the American Colonists were secessionists, about 10% were loyalists, and the rest just went along with the status quo.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      You go ahead on thinking just that thats how Google got into trouble. Just because you happened upon an insecure hotspot means you can sit there and collect data. You dont want the government,police doing it why is it ok for you?

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    9. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Control-Z · · Score: 1

      And the best part is, we are paying for this litigation!

    10. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by weiserfireman · · Score: 1

      I don't have any expectation of privacy when using an unencrypted WiFi connection. Specifically because someone could intercept it.

      Because I understand I am broadcasting a radio signal in the clear, and know what that means.

    11. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly what this is... In no uncertain terms!

      Fuck... Pot, meet Kettle...

      WiFi is explicitly radio... and it's readily accessible without any intervention on the users behalf...

      I regularly connect to unsecured hotspots without even meaning to...

      Blah...

      I can't even express how utterly exasperated I am with our government...and the people that keep them in office...

      You can fix this yourself:
      1. Set up unsecure wifi, that logs access. (named linksys perhaps)
      2. Anyone that gets logged has broken the wiretap law - using google as a precedent
      3. Drag people to court for wiretapping
        - your neighbours
        - people who pass by
        - ideally, trap some of the lawmakers this way
      4. Get publicity over this
      5. Laws are changed in a hurry...

    12. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      What idiot thinks unsecured wifi is private?

      The same ones who believe that if their front door is unlocked, it doesn't give you the right to come on in. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying your viewpoint isn't the only one.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    13. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Bad analogy, When there front door starts seeping outside the property and uses a shared resource maybe, till then apples and oranges.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    14. Re:Not radio communications? WTF?! by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Says you (and many others), but until it's settled in the legal system, the other side of the coin is...
      To use their wifi, you're stepping back into their property. You are interacting (not just receiving) with someone else s property.
      If something owned by me leaves my property, it doesn't become fair game, it's still owned by me.
      I'm not saying I want it this way, but that it might just end up like that.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  11. Really now? by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' to the general public

    Every single apartment complex I've lived in/visited would say otherwise.

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
    1. Re:Really now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess I need to make wiser choices in apartment complexes. Around me there is nothing but wpa2 with mac filtering, and some wep encrypted att 1.5mbps dsl.

    2. Re:Really now? by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Every single apartment complex I've lived in/visited would say otherwise.

      Yes, but you may recall that a few days ago Google said it was accelerating its VPN and encryption rollout to frustrate the NSA. The NSA made a phone call to the DOJ. They're one big happy family you know. So now Google will be punished in a roundabout fashion for daring to piss in the NSA's cheerios.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:Really now? by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      "unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' to the general public

      Every single apartment complex I've lived in/visited would say otherwise.

      So do the unsecured WiFi routers/AP's themselves. In fact, they broadcast their invitations to "come use me" to the world. Did someone actually fail to point out this plain fact for the court?

    4. Re:Really now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now Google will be punished in a roundabout fashion for daring to piss in the NSA's cheerios.

      Sweet! That means every data corporation in the USA that wants to retain its customers will start pissing in the NSA's cheerios too. It's an expensive signal, but not sending it is even more expensive.

    5. Re:Really now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

  12. Charge NSA first .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. and then go for Google, in that order.

  13. Re:And they're right by hypergreatthing · · Score: 2

    wifi is radio. I could tune into them using a reciever in the 2.4 ghz range easily. I can even use a dsp to decode it via soft radio, and respond to the messages. anything that uses the radio spectrum is radio. Morse code is the same thing as wifi, just 1000x slower.

  14. Civil Damages? by foxalopex · · Score: 2

    Maybe I'm a little off on my law but civil damages are when people sue each other. So it makes sense if Google used the information in some way that hurt you then you have the right to sue Google for damages. In Canada, for a while when cellphone calls were not encrypted, it was perfectly legal to listen to the calls provided you did not use the information gleamed off that to benefit in any way. Google to the best of our knowledge deleted this information or no longer has it so what exactly would you be suing Google for? How did Google collecting this information harm you or how in the world are you ever going to prove that?

    1. Re:Civil Damages? by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but this is a court of appeals decision. It has very little to do with whether or not Google's actions in this particular case could have harmed someone or that someone could prove that damages were done. The decision is about forging case law that will show that anybody that does this sort of thing can be held liable for damages. That doesn't mean the plaintiff doesn't have to prove his or her case, merely that it's completely valid to bring such a case before the court.

      That is to say, this ruling affirms civil court jurisdiction, and affirms operators of unencrypted Wi-Fi can show standing for damages in such a court.

      Fundamentally: it no longer matters if someone intercepts another's Wi-Fi communication with an intent to profit from it or to damage another. Provided the plaintiff can show standing, the defendant is liable for the damages. The defendant's intent is not relevant.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    2. Re:Civil Damages? by djyrn3715 · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't it be, "Provided the plaintiff can show standing, the trial can go forward"? IANAL either, but it seems to me that Google will now have to go to trial, and the plaintiffs will have to make their claims stick. I'm not entirely up on the case, but wasn't this all about standing? ... not a response - to lazy to do another post.... The courts position strikes demonstrates a major issue I have with originalism. Arguing that Congress only had a very narrow idea of what radio was just demands a constant rewriting of law or force new technologies into the wild west of civil action. No judgement involved for anyone including judges.

    3. Re:Civil Damages? by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      So what the NSA is doing is ok by you? its not really harming us in any way. Google just didn't delete it they collected it willingly saved it on purpose looked for it on purpose as it was a program the guys/gals just drove the cars the computers did all the rest. Programmed by Google what to do. If you support Google in this then you support what the NSA is doing because they are not trying to as you say harm us.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
  15. The bigger you are... by houbou · · Score: 1

    the more of a target you become..

    1. Re:The bigger you are... by only_human · · Score: 1

      the more of a target you become..

      unless you are a banker or Wall Street insider.

  16. conspicuous by 7311587 · · Score: 2

    I like how there is a story on slashdot about Google making high level encryption that the NSA cannot penetrate. Then a few stories later is the government taking Google to court for something serious. Don't mess with the government.

  17. What the fuck? by wolrahnaes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How in the hell are WiFi networks not "radio communications" which are "readily accessible"? What fucked up, distorted logic led to this?

    I hope I don't have to explain how they are radio communications, if that's not obvious to anyone please go play with crayons in the corner.

    As for readily accessible, when the vast majority of WiFi-equipped PCs and most mobile devices need nothing more than software which simply asks the wireless card to pass through what it sees, uh yes, it is readily accessible.

    It's like arguing that since FRS radios typically default to channels 1 or 14 when turned on, channel 6 is not readily accessible. Sure you don't get it without asking, but its about as easy as it could possibly be.

    --
    I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    1. Re:What the fuck? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      How in the hell are WiFi networks not "radio communications" which are "readily accessible"? What fucked up, distorted logic led to this?

      Common sense logic as used by non-geeks who are not fixated on literal interpretations. For example, you believe that PCs and mobile devices talking to each other constitutes "communications", while the non-geek would say that "communications" requires two living entities talking to each other. You say yourself that you need a WiFi equipped PC and some software - that's not "readily available".

    2. Re:What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My phone is constantly telling me: Click here to join WIRE243 hotspot! Click here to join Linksys! How is that not readily available?

    3. Re:What the fuck? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      The courts don't apply logic. They apply the law. The two are vastly different animals.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    4. Re: What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your phone isn't automatically connecting and streaming received content on the display. In fact, even if it was automatically connecting, it is not intercepting traffic in a promiscuous mode and recording it.

      It's hard to believe all the comments in this thread like the above aren't just disingenuous spam. This is slashdot. We're not supposed to be so ignorant.

    5. Re:What the fuck? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      It looks like the courts said "Radio means that it plays sound. Since data doesn't play sound, it isn't radio. Therefore the WiFi networks (traveling via radio communications) aren't actually radio at all." Nothing like a verdict that completely ignores the basic facts of the matter in exchange for a judge's twisted understanding.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    6. Re:What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And THERE'S the problem.

    7. Re:What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How in the hell are WiFi networks not "radio communications" which are "readily accessible"? What fucked up, distorted logic led to this?

      Allow me to explain by analogy:
      Consider a postal law that explicitly states that the mailman is not wrong if he accidentally reads your postcards. Seems to make sense at the time. "accidentally" is an awkward legal concept, so that kind of is left out of the law.
      Time marches on, and suddenly you have people mailing CDs to each other.
      Google comes along, sees the CD, pops it into a player and listens to it.
      They are sued, and appeal: the postal exception should apply!
      The judges on appeal say: no, it doesn't.

      Alternatively, you could try reading the actual verdict. It's quite legible... and sensible.
      (The judges don't say Google was right or wrong, they say that the exemption does not apply)

    8. Re:What the fuck? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      But they didn't apply the law. Probably becasue they aren't versed with unlicensed radio spectrum laws.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:What the fuck? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you read the opinion they did something they always do, which they claim does follow the law exactly. Their position is that the law makers meant one thing and wrote another due to lack of a clue. In other words, in this case, they are saying that "radio communication" is not "communication via radio signals", but rather radio station broadcasts. Their basic argument is what it always has been, to wit: "sure that is what they said if you take it literally, but they clearly meant it to mean what we have decided we want it to mean".

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    10. Re:What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heir position is that the law makers meant one thing and wrote another due to lack of a clue.

      In a sane world this would mean that the unclear law would be thrown out, not that they get to make up their own interpretation based on their whims and ignorance of technology.

    11. Re:What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, pretty much nobody has a Windows laptop.

    12. Re:What the fuck? by weiserfireman · · Score: 1

      Problem with the Court's argument, radar detectors in cars

      The legality of radar detectors rests on the radio broadcast exception "if you broadcast it, someone else can listen to it".

      If police agencies can argue that radar detectors are "illegal wiretapping" devices because they didn't intend for someone to receive their broadcasts, a lot of people are going to be charged with wiretapping.

    13. Re:What the fuck? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Radar detectors detect the presence of a signal. They don't decode and record it.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    14. Re:What the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they 'decode' it. A speed radar is a 1-bit signal - it is there or it is not. And the law says nothing about recording. You are not allowed to wiretap even if "you only listen in, you don't record anything..."

    15. Re:What the fuck? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I guess expecting someone who can't figure out how to create a Slashdot account to understand what the word decode means is a bit over the top.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  18. Time to unlock my wifi by arekin · · Score: 1

    And rake in the profits citing this case!

    --
    Disagreeing with you does not make me a troll.
    1. Re:Time to unlock my wifi by tech.kyle · · Score: 1
      That's what I was thinking. Walk in to courthouse, turn on AP with no password (a phone's hotspot should do the trick). Show the court, in realitme, how many people "violate" this law when their phones auto-connect.

      Should they be sued for that?

      I will grant them that just because a car is unlocked doesn't mean it's legal to help yourself to whatever is in it, but with the popularity of free hotspots, guest networks and the such, WiFi doesn't hold the same standards and the line between what's private and what's public becomes much more blurred.

      --
      If we colonize Mars, it won't be the World Wide Web anymore. UWW?
    2. Re:Time to unlock my wifi by mjtaylor24601 · · Score: 1

      If I recall my intro-to-business-law-101 class from many years ago, the general goal of civil law is not to reward the victim or to punish the wrong-doer but to redress the damages done to the former by the latter. That is, you broke the law and harmed me in some way, so at the end of the law suit I should be back in the same position I would have been in had the law-breaking never occurred.

      This means that, generally speaking you, have to demonstrate (based on a preponderance of the evidence) that not only did someone break the law, but also that you were harmed by it in some way. It's this second criteria that I you would have trouble proving.

      I would expect that in your hypothetical case the court would reason as follows: Yes X number of people had "intercepted" your WIFI signals. Amount of damage you suffered as a consequences: None. Award in favour of the plaintiff in the amount of $0. Congratulations you just wasted a bunch of money in legal fees.

      Now perhaps there are statutory damages involved (damages specifically laid out in the law that apply regardless of actual harm suffered by the victim, although I'm not aware of any that apply in this case). You might also make an argument for punitive damages (damages explicitly intended to push the law breaker rather to redress actual harm done to the victim, and what I assume is being sought in the case against Google, although I haven't been following it closely), however I think it would be hard to argue that such would apply to the people in your hypothetical court room as they hadn't knowingly connected to your WIFI, or at least certainly hadn't done so with malice intent.

      --
      I wish I were as sure of anything as some people are of everything
    3. Re:Time to unlock my wifi by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " that not only did someone break the law, but also that you were harmed by it in some way."
      nope. The don't have to break the law.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  19. Courts frequently interpret the intent of a law... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...according to the court, unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' ...

    What the court seems to be thinking is that:

    - We will examine the INTENT of the law rather than restrict ourselves to the technical words
    - We believe that the intent was that someone who made an open radio transmission would know that it could be intercepted, so cannot expect privacy, since any radio set can pick it up. It's akin to shouting across the street.
    - However, someone who is using a wi-fi connection would not necessarily be aware that they were exposing information.
    - Therefore, persons who intercept that information using specialist equipment are not 'just overhearing information'. They are acting in a bad faith manner, and are doing something nearer to wiretapping than innocently listening. ...Apparently....

  20. Judges untrained in comms technology, that's how.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unencrypted RF comms *are* fair game for anyone to receive, though recording them is often illegal (notably, recording cell phone calls off the air is, quite reasonably, prohibited). This ruling results from judges being experts in the law but ignorant of the facts of modern radio technology. I rather expect this to be appealed to the Nine In Black, who may or may not have a clue, but who are at least much better briefed than some appeals judges. Perverse and head-banging court rulings are unavoidable in even the best judicial systems, alas.

    That said, I do expect this ruling to be overturned, as it is plainly dumber than chocolate pants. WiFi IS radio communications, and an open WiFi hotspot can be trivially snooped with standard commercial gear, so it IS readily accessible. If you wanted a reasonable expectation of privacy, you'd turn on encryption, also available as standard equipment, or at least use a secured connection protocol. Using an open hotspot with unencrypted HTTP is no more private than conversing over an FRS walkie-talkie.

    Absent gods, but I miss Groklaw just about now...

  21. Re:Courts frequently interpret the intent of a law by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Countries legal systems had to find their way around the computer intrusion cases back in the 1980's.
    The full force of legal protection was directed at privacy vs some 'damage' case that could be reduced if the network was just 'looked' at.
    If only it was just one 'test' in 'one' country ...

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  22. Good citizens secure their communications. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know right, this is the point of wi-fi and there is encryption if you don't want to share it. The only reason I can think for establishing some legal precedent against this openness is so they can associate access points (and any piracy or questionable activities) with someone who can be held accountable.

  23. may you live in interesting times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    isn't fascism fun?!!!

    And how is working hand-in-glove with the NSA fit with google's vision statement of "do no evil"?

    1. Re: may you live in interesting times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vision statements are marketing fluff. Seriously, does anybody at your workplace view them as anything else?

  24. Lesson - Don't be honest and report your mistakes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Any companies watching this episode will be highly discouraged from ever being honest in reporting their own errors. No harm had been done. Google engineers re-used some code that had some extra functionality they didn't know about, and it collected sporadic data they didn't care about or intend to gather. When they realized it was happening, instead of just deleting the data, they informed the authorities and asked for permission to delete it. The result? The authorities read the data and put the company through a never ending legal battle that's cost millions.

    Who on earth is going to do the right thing after seeing this?

  25. Didn't Share with the NSA? by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 1

    Is Google getting hit with this because they asked for an open, public hearing with another court so that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court could be publicly debated? Seems like the deck is stacked against them.

    How an unencrypted, largely unregulated band transmissions cannot be considered 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' simply makes no sense. If I have a wireless network that is blasting out huge wattage, the FCC would get involved. So it is radio communications, which can be accessed with a $20 wireless card and a generic PC. Not only are our politicians out of touch with technology, but so are the judges they appoint.

  26. USA! USA! by organgtool · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the NSA is performing actual wiretaps and widescale data collection which violates the Constitution and they are facing absolutely no penalties or even pressure from any other branch of government to stop this behavior yet Google is being punished for "wiretapping" by collecting information that was voluntarily broadcasted on public airwaves. At first this didn't make any sense until I remembered Google's recent efforts to encrypt users' data to make it tougher to be collected by government agencies. I guess that's the price they're going to pay for trying to force the government to obey its own Constitution.

    1. Re:USA! USA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. The USA is a farce. Was just about to make basically the same post.

  27. They should just claim... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    "We were acting on orders from the NSA. But we can't share that information with you."

  28. So now can we charge the police, DHS, NSA ... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, if listening to a broadcast signal without a warrant is illegal, are we going to charge anyone who listens to a radio?

    If it's just wi-fi snooping, then maybe we only have to charge DHS, the NSA, and other large men-in-black type outfits?

  29. What civil damages? by hawguy · · Score: 1

    What damages did someone transmitting their information in plaintext suffer when Google picked up what they were transmitting?

    If they want to sue someone, sue the Wifi equipment manufacturers that used to make open networks the default setting.

  30. A wealth of encouraging things here by erroneus · · Score: 0

    Firstly we have the courts taking a position about the nature of open wireless networks -- specifically that sniffing them does represent an invasion. I think that's pretty big and pretty useful. (It can also get you or your neighbor charged as a felon under the laws about unauthorized computer access...) As many other have pointed out, it opens the door to seeking relief from government invasion by legally identifying what has been done as what it is. Not that I expect serious traction in any sort of rectification of the damage the NSA and others have caused.

    1. Re:A wealth of encouraging things here by SecurityGuy · · Score: 1

      I don't like that this line of reasoning encourages people to demonstrably unsafe things on the theory that they can sue or prosecute people later, and that that might deter people from sniffing their traffic. Much better to just tell everyone to secure their communications. The alternative is much like saying the neighbors can go shout their secrets in the street and you are obligated not to listen. Yes, listening in on someone else's unsecured WiFi is harder than listening to a neighbor shout in the streets...but not by much.

  31. Unsecured wifi isn't readily accesable radio comm by Cyfun · · Score: 1

    A wifi hotspot isn't "radio communications"?

    Per Wikipedia (which is NEVER wrong):
    Wi-Fi, also spelled Wifi or WiFi, is a popular technology that allows an electronic device to exchange data or connect to the internet wirelessly using radio waves.

    “Wi-Fi transmissions are not 'readily accessible' to the 'general public' because most of the general public lacks the expertise to intercept and decode payload data transmitted over a Wi-Fi network"?

    Any idiot with a laptop or wifi-capable cellphone can easily connect to an unsecured WAP by clicking on it, or even automatically as many wireless adapters have been configured to do so. Plus, there's the fact that 802.11 wifi operates on the ISM radio band for unlicensed use. Not to mention if I'm sitting in my home and the radio waves from my neighbor's wifi are entering my home, and I choose to see what they say, this is no different than the neighbor blasting his shitty hiphop music so loud that I can hear the lyrics.

    I should also mention that the ISM frequency range is also home to cordless telephones and microwave ovens. So if cooking leftover pizza using an unlicensed radio frequency isn't considered "readily accessible," I don't know what is!

    --
    In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
  32. Re:And they're right by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Until wireless cards are "readily accessible" open WiFi still requires some effort, and intention, to access.

    Practically every cell phone and laptop are WiFi capable, as are quite a number of tablets, cameras, printers, and televisions. Heck, there's even exercise equipment with WiFi. Accessing open WiFi takes no more effort than tuning in a shortwave broadcast does.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  33. My phone is a wiretap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, when my phone scans WiFi and presents me with a list of access points, I have just committed a wiretap.

    Every WiFi device (and its user) is now guilty.

    1. Re: My phone is a wiretap by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Yes, if you are running special software that doesn't just connect, but does so in a promiscuous mode where it intercepts traffic not addressed to it and records it. Thanks for the opportunity to clear things up.

  34. Re:Judges untrained in comms technology, that's ho by laing · · Score: 5, Informative

    Analog cellular phone calls are covered by a separate law (The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986). It not only makes it illegal to record them, it makes it illegal to sell a radio that can receive them (or be easily modified to receive them). Thankfully all mobile phones are digital now. Unfortunately that law is still on the books.
    Another court case conflicts with the Google ruling. Back when they were in popular use, the police sometimes recorded wireless phone calls from 46/49 MHz cordless phones (without a warrant). The police used these recordings in court to convict a drug dealer and the drug dealer argued that the communications were private. The courts ruled that they were not. Here is the court ruling from this case:

  35. Simple Retribution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google fights the government on National Security Letters, and they need to be slapped down and shown their rightful place. Happened to before (Microsoft), and will probably happen again.

    Just out of curiosity, how exactly do people square this with "corporate cronyism" theories? Looks to me like the power flows the other way around.

  36. Re:Courts frequently interpret the intent of a law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...according to the court, unsecured Wi-Fi hotspots are not 'radio communications' that are 'readily accessible' ...

    What the court seems to be thinking is that:

    - We will examine the INTENT of the law rather than restrict ourselves to the technical words
    - We believe that the intent was that someone who made an open radio transmission would know that it could be intercepted, so cannot expect privacy, since any radio set can pick it up. It's akin to shouting across the street.
    - However, someone who is using a wi-fi connection would not necessarily be aware that they were exposing information.
    - Therefore, persons who intercept that information using specialist equipment are not 'just overhearing information'. They are acting in a bad faith manner, and are doing something nearer to wiretapping than innocently listening. ...Apparently....

    So they get to sue Google because they chose not to inform themselves? I suppose there's some "reasonable person" standard involved, where a "reasonable person" in the '80s might be expected to know others could listen in on their CB (after all, it lets multiple people communicate in ad-hoc groups with no prior exchange of information), but a "reasonable person" in the '10s can't be expected to bother learning how Wi-Fi works, because they're too busy facebooking. (*mumble-mumble-idiocracy-mumble*)

    I don't dispute the reasoning in a general sense -- e.g. if Google was using some little-known exploit to record data commonly and reasonably supposed to be encrypted, yeah, go get 'em. But there's an inherent value judgement there, about how much of the responsible for informing yourself rests with you, and I think in this case the judge is way off base.

  37. But NSA wiretaps fine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gosh.

  38. Twisted logic by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Common sense logic as used by non-geeks who are not fixated on literal interpretations.

    Kind of hard to have a just law where you don't apply a reasonably literal interpretation.

    while the non-geek would say that "communications" requires two living entities talking to each other

    So by that logic if two people do anything other than talk to each other face to face then they are not communicating?

    You say yourself that you need a WiFi equipped PC and some software - that's not "readily available".

    What color is the sky on your planet where wifi equipped PCs and related software are not readily available? I have at least 100 wifi equipped devices (including PCs) within 50 meters of me as I type this. Heck I carry such a device with me pretty much everywhere I go.

    1. Re:Twisted logic by Intropy · · Score: 1

      Your honor, I didn't say anything. I was merely vibrating the air as is my custom.

    2. Re:Twisted logic by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      So by that logic if two people do anything other than talk to each other face to face then they are not communicating?

      That's again the geek talking, sounding like a bit of asperger, demanding that everything is either black or white. "Communication" is the imparting or exchanging of information by speaking, writing or using another medium - important is, it is communication between people. No word about it having to be talk, and face-to-face.

      And now the bummer: If my neighbours have an unsecured WiFi network, I can easily use my Mac to connect to their network and leech off their broadband connection. I can _not_ easily listen to or record what other people are doing on that network. Sure, I can probably find software that does it, but my neighbour's communication using their insecure network is _not_ readily available to me.

  39. Re:Courts frequently interpret the intent of a law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if 'ignorance of the law is no excuse', then sholdn't 'ignorance of the technology' be similar ?

  40. I am surprised .... by maroberts · · Score: 1

    ...this is not addressed through the basics of contract law.

    When a wireless router broadcasts a SSID on an unencrypted wireless network, it is effectively an invitation to use that network.
    So your computer asks that router for an IP address, and lo and behold the router gives you an IP address. By making a request for an IP Address and the router giving you one, it has effectively given you permission to join the network.

    All this is different on a secure network, since you either have to have the key or pick the lock (even a simple lock like WEP). Picking the lock to use a service without authorisation can easily be seen as an offence.

    So what has Google done that is radically different from walking around looking for an open connection so you can send an email? (Apart from scale that is).

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:I am surprised .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When a wireless router broadcasts a SSID on an unencrypted wireless network, it is effectively an invitation to use that network.
      So your computer asks that router for an IP address, and lo and behold the router gives you an IP address. By making a request for an IP Address and the router giving you one, it has effectively given you permission to join the network.

      This is all true, but you (and most of the posters on this thread) *keep missing the point*. Goggle did not just *use* an open network, in the sense of connecting to it and utilising it for internet access, as anyone might do with an open WiFi network. They also recorded traffic from/to the network which while not encrypted, was *not addressed to them* (MAC wise), i.e. data that they could clearly tell** was not intended for their device (unlike the SSID broadcast etc. which was effectively addressed 'to anyone passing by').

      Summary: This is *not* like connecting to random open WiFi to send an email.

      **When I say that they could clearly tell, I mean if they'd done this on purpose; as it seems it was an accident.

  41. Summon Tuppe666 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roar roar Google, Do no Evil! Made in USA! Google Google! Chromebook GooOGOGlE GOOGLE! GOOGLE!!! Who needs privacy, Apple loving sheeple!

    http://reddit.com/u/Tuppe666

  42. False distinctions by sjbe · · Score: 1

    - We believe that the intent was that someone who made an open radio transmission would know that it could be intercepted, so cannot expect privacy, since any radio set can pick it up. It's akin to shouting across the street. However, someone who is using a wi-fi connection would not necessarily be aware that they were exposing information.

    And where the court erred is in thinking there is a difference between these two situations. An unsecured wifi base station IS making open radio transmissions. It is hardly a secret that wifi needs to be secured intentionally. EVERY wifi base station includes instructions on how to secure the base station transmissions. If the owner of the base station cannot be bothered to read those instructions then I cannot fathom how that is anyone else's fault. If you are making a radio transmission of any kind then common logic dictates that it may be intercepted by anyone with the right equipment and it is up to the person transmitting to make reasonable efforts to secure that transmission.

    Now if Google was actively cracking secured wifi networks in some manner or using those open wifi connections to transmit their own data then we have a different discussion.

    1. Re:False distinctions by Zironic · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with how radio works, they give no fucks, it has everything with what the user of the radio expects. Laws are by and large written to apply to people, not technology.

      If most people expect a situation to be private and you listen in, then you're an asshat and the law will usually punish you for it regardless of how easy it was for you to listen. This has nothing to do with the technical details of the situation.

    2. Re:False distinctions by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, it has everything to do with it.
      The technology is designed to be open and shared. If someone who buys the tool can't be bothered to learn it then it is their own damn fault.

      You don't blame the pedestrian becasue the drive couldn't be bothered to learn how to break.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:False distinctions by sjbe · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with how radio works, they give no fucks, it has everything with what the user of the radio expects.

      So if my buddies and I expect something stupid and irrational then the law should work in my favor? Strange notion you have there.

      Laws are by and large written to apply to people, not technology.

      We've been talking this entire time about how people are using this technology. That is a distinction without a difference. The court appears to have misunderstood how this technology works and are (potentially) punishing people based on an ignorant application of the law.

      This has nothing to do with the technical details of the situation.

      See there you are wrong. The court appears to have misunderstood how the technology works and misunderstood how it should apply under the law. The technical details are not separable from how it is used. Technology is meaningless unless it is used by a person.

    4. Re:False distinctions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zironic is right.

      The technology is NOT the issue here. The issue is the intent of the person making the transmission.

      The law on radio transmissions was not written with the idea that certain parts of the electromagnetic spectrum could be freely listened to. It was written to mean that if you picked up a microphone and keyed 'broadcast' then you knew you were letting everyone hear what you were saying. But if you plugged in a wi-fi router and left it on a default of 'no security' then you did not necessarily know this.

      That is the distinction in law. It's not a technological distinction.

    5. Re:False distinctions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if my buddies and I expect something stupid and irrational then the law should work in my favor? Strange notion you have there.

      No, the law goes by what the Average American would find to be true, not any specific group.

    6. Re:False distinctions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your both correct stupid and irrational - the average American.

  43. Mixed feelings by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1

    I know Google has a lot of computational prowess when it comes to user data, so I say with some hesitation that this ruling makes no sense.

    Isn't readily accessible? In five minutes, any member of the "public" can get a laptop, find an open hotspot and run Wireshark in promiscuous mode. Sounds "readily" to me.

    1. Re:Mixed feelings by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Traditionally, if access require special tools it isn't considered readily available.

      In this case it would mean not needing a password to access.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  44. Re:And they're right by rotaryexpress · · Score: 1

    Morse code is the same thing as wifi, just 1000x slower.

    Your analogy is wrong. Morse code is the communication protocol, WiFi (802.11a/b/g/n) is a specification.

    802.11 is roughly equivalent to FCC Part 97
    Morse code is roughly equivalent to TCP/IP

    Wifi uses radio, just like CB, Amatuer Radio, FRS

  45. Re: Courts frequently interpret the intent of a la by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The wifi protocols don't default to a mode where random devices connect in a promiscuous mode and record all traffic seen.

    I thought Slashdot was smarter than this.

  46. Readily Accessible by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    You mean "readily accessible" as in "I can understand it by hearing an audio facsimile" (as the Judge implied) or "readily accessible" as in anyone with a smart phone can access without even pressing a single button - you walk near the transmitter and magical pages of information come up on my phone at my whim. Would Morse Code be not "readily accessible" since few people today use Morse Code, because it's an unencrypted digital (trinary) transmission, but would have certainly been considered fair game back when the law was written?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Readily Accessible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I meant was mostly: it doesn't make any fucking sense. ;)

  47. Re:Unsecured wifi isn't readily accesable radio co by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    I wonder if the Judge would have considered Morse Code a readily accessible transmission at the time of the law's writing. Because Morse is just a digital code (trinary, but digital) transmitted over radio waves. I wonder if Chinese radio transmissions in the US fall outside of "readily accessible," since most Americans don't have the expertise to decode Chinese?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  48. Worse .... by kawabago · · Score: 1

    It gets worse, if your computing device remembers access points it has encountered before, under this interpretation, you're committing a crime.

  49. that's called an anecdote dog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it don't mean a damn thing, since every single apartment complex I've lived in/visited confirms that they are "secured" from ready accesibility by the general public

  50. Re:Lesson - Don't be honest and report your mistak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People with morals? ya, ya I know morals just get in the way of things, which might be the one reason our society is going down the drain.

  51. Re:Judges untrained in comms technology, that's ho by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The police used these recordings in court to convict a drug dealer and the drug dealer argued that the communications were private. The courts ruled that they were not. Here is the court ruling from this case:

    It's always amazing how different the courts rule on drug cases vs non-drug cases. It's like they don't understand what the blind lady justice statue with the scales represents. I watched case after case of RICO craziness, but as soon as RICO was used against a non-drug case, they flipped sides.

  52. 802.11 Ethernet is a broadcast media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In 802.11, each station gets to hear all the other stations and choose which packets to keep.
          Usually, they choose only those for themselves, but it's really receiver's choice with generally available equipment.
          This was modeled after the original fat coax based Ethernet where each station could hear all the other stations.
          The stations are radios communicating over the air instead of transceivers communicating over the coax.
          If that's not a radio broadcast media, I don't know what one is.

    There are open WiFi networks.
        A customary way to declare that they are open is to make them unsecured.
          Such a network is available to most folks in range with a smart phone which can switch between cell the WiFi.
          If the wiretap act dates from the early days of radio when few folks had radios, then
                it's likely that a higher percentage of the public has suitable equipment now than had radios then.

    Seems like a transmission over public airways on an unsecured 802.11 network ought to qualify as a general public radio broadcast media transmission.
          I wonder what argument Google used to support their position?

  53. legal definition of "readily available" not radio by schneidafunk · · Score: 1

    I believe the difference they are pointing out is that FM / AM, police, fire, etc. are broadcasting out and are 'readily available', whereas with WiFi is broadcasting but is not readily available to the general public, most of the time it is encrypted and meant just for yourself. This ruling is saying people who want to sue Google, are allowed to, because they were not broadcasting for the same purpose as the other technologies mentioned above.

    From the actual summary of the court ruling:
    Wiretap Act
    The panel affirmed the district court's order denying a
    motion to dismiss claims that Google, Inc., violated the
    Wiretap Act when, in the course of capturing its Street View
    photographs, it collected data from unencrypted Wi-Fi
    networks.
    The panel held that Google's data collection did not fall
    within a Wiretap exemption set forth in 18 U.S.C.
    ? 2511(2)(g)(i) because data transmitted over a Wi-Fi
    network is not an "electronic communication" that is "readily
    accessible to the general public." Under 18 U.S.C.
    ? 2510(16)(A), a "radio communication" is by definition
    "readily accessible to the general public" so long as it is not
    scrambled or encrypted. The panel held that the Wi-Fi
    network data collected by Google was not a radio
    communication, and thus was not by definition readily

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
  54. Re:Lesson - Don't be honest and report your mistak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No harm had been done.

    I believe that no harm has been done. Normally, the people suing Google for money would have to show some harm or the case will be dismissed. No harm, no damages, no payout. Like the women who wanted to have sex with Clinton, then sued him. Hopefully Google will try that. Not sex with Clinton, but asking them to prove some damages. These are just some greedy people looking for a free handout and they should be SLAPPed.

  55. Court doesn't understand technology by geekoid · · Score: 1

    news at 11

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  56. The Public are techno idiots ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They continue to use windows.
    pay hundreds of dollars for fragile cell phones without handles/straps, that are easily dropped.
    use their real name on social media sites.
    watch kittens on youtube more than they read anything.
    believe media news stories without facts.
    vote for politicians words, not their actions.

    Question Authority

  57. Re:legal definition of "readily available" not rad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe the difference they are pointing out is that FM / AM, police, fire, etc. are broadcasting out and are 'readily available', whereas with WiFi is broadcasting but is not readily available to the general public, most of the time it is encrypted and meant just for yourself. This ruling is saying people who want to sue Google, are allowed to, because they were not broadcasting for the same purpose as the other technologies mentioned above.

    From the actual summary of the court ruling:
    Wiretap Act
    The panel affirmed the district court's order denying a
    motion to dismiss claims that Google, Inc., violated the
    Wiretap Act when, in the course of capturing its Street View
    photographs, it collected data from unencrypted Wi-Fi
    networks.
    The panel held that Google's data collection did not fall
    within a Wiretap exemption set forth in 18 U.S.C.
    ? 2511(2)(g)(i) because data transmitted over a Wi-Fi
    network is not an "electronic communication" that is "readily
    accessible to the general public." Under 18 U.S.C.
    ? 2510(16)(A), a "radio communication" is by definition
    "readily accessible to the general public" so long as it is not
    scrambled or encrypted. The panel held that the Wi-Fi
    network data collected by Google was not a radio
    communication, and thus was not by definition readily

    Un-encrypted WiFi is '"readily accessible to the general public" so long as it is not scrambled or encrypted.' Most people carry around a device that is capable of listening in to these radio communications. There are probably even wifi sniffers available in the Google Play store (probably not in the apple store though) that will let you record these kinds of transmissions automatically.
        Civil actions against Google "listening in" on these conversations is akin to suing the police department for breaching your privacy when they knocked on your car window whilst you were having sex in a secluded location.

  58. Court defines TV, wifi as "not radio" by davecb · · Score: 1

    A brilliant bit of pilpul: the statute is supposed to be read using the "ordinary meaning" of terms like radio. As radio can be distinguished from television in ordinary usage, radio waves therefor do not include television waves, do not include wifi waves, etc. Therefor wifi is not radio, and doesn't have the radio exception, even though it uses radio frequency electromagnetic waves.

    The counter-argument is that in common usage and in the language used in the statute, the term "radio" includes "radio waves". The waves cannot be distinguished from one another in the same way, and the argument that "radio communication" does not include "television communication", etc fails. All electromagnetic communication in the radio wavelengths is radio communication.

    Poor legal draftsmanship, plus a real desire to draw exceedingly fine distinctions about extremely broad language yields a decision that makes the judges feel proud, but dumps all over what is, IMHO, rather obvious legislative intent.

    --dave

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  59. Totally clueless by darth_borehd · · Score: 1

    If you leave your wi-fi open, its public. It's commonly accepted practice. I expect Google to win this easily.

  60. The RF Spectrum defines it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The part of the spectrum that WiFi operates in is not part of the spectrum that just anyone can build a device and work with.

    This is unlike CB radio and amateur short wave radio where it is accepted that hobbyists can and will build their own equipment to communicate over. I've built a kit UHF transceiver that communicated in the 28MHz (forget if that's right now) range with others using specific towers that are available on specific frequencies for relays. This construction included adding in parts that tune in to specific frequencies.

    You can't go to Dick Smith or Frys or Best Buy and buy your own WiFi kit and build a device that talks on the spectrum that WiFi uses.

    I'm pretty sure that you'll find there are rules and regulations for specific sets of frequencies as to whether or not you can just "sniif the air waves". Using the above example, there are no restrictions on building receivers for amateur radio bands and thus there would be no law breaking if you recorded everything for a specific frequency in one of those specific bands.

    To pick a counter example, it is a crime in many places to build something that just detects specific X/K band radio waves that are used by police in various parts of the world to determine the speed of cars on the road.

    So just because something is transmitted in the air does not mean that you have permission to "listen in."

    Crazy, I know, but that's the world we live in.

  61. it's a TRAP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this makes me sad. now everybody joining my OPEN-NON-ENCRYPTED-NO.PASSwORD
    wifi AP called "multicast240.0.0.1" broadcasting game of throwesses and happening
    to have vlc open is a criminal : (
    oh wait ...

  62. Pringels Can by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    Obviously the judge lacks a Pringels can. I can't imagine a signal that is not more accessible by the public.

  63. How does one become a judge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does one become a judge? I'm tired of techno-ignorant judges making stupid rulings when they clearly have no understanding of basic science or technology. Where do I sign up to replace them?

  64. Re:Judges untrained in comms technology, that's ho by weiserfireman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Judge made the mistake of trying to interpret the motive of the person setting up the unencrypted hotspot instead of the intent of the people who designed the WiFi standard. He also doesn't understand how WiFi and networking work.

    He decided that in general, someone setting up a hotspot doesn't intend for the traffic to be snooped, therefore it "isn't publically broadcast". The law should be based on the design of the technology, not the intent and misunderstanding, of the person who turns it on.

    WiFi doesn't work if every computer listening in on the hotspot doesn't examine every packet, at least as far enough to see if it was intended for it or not. It doesn't take a special $600 adapter for someone to snoop, or packet capture, the network traffic. That may be the easiest way for an untrained person to do it, but it isn't the only way.

    We need special judges, who are trained technologists, to rule on technology cases.

  65. Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously the judge lacks a Pringels can. I can't imagine a signal that is not more accessible by the public.

    ...you are obviously lacking a spell checker.

  66. DMCA notice to the NSA by Larry_Dillon · · Score: 1

    How about for copyright infringement? Even non-commercial copyright infringement is illegal.

    --
    Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
  67. Lesson learned by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Don't become a huge company, and piss off the feds.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  68. Re:Unsecured wifi isn't readily accesable radio co by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    Any idiot with a laptop or wifi-capable cellphone can easily connect to an unsecured WAP by clicking on it, or even automatically as many wireless adapters have been configured to do so.

    True. But my laptop will not display or record any network traffic that isn't intended for it. Without any special software, I can make use of the network for my own purposes, but I cannot see what anyone else is doing on that unsecured network.

  69. Re:Judges untrained in comms technology, that's ho by dcw3 · · Score: 1

    Unencrypted RF comms *are* fair game for anyone to receive, though recording them is often illegal (notably, recording cell phone calls off the air is, quite reasonably, prohibited). This ruling results from judges being experts in the law but ignorant of the facts of modern radio technology. I rather expect this to be appealed to the Nine In Black, who may or may not have a clue, but who are at least much better briefed than some appeals judges. Perverse and head-banging court rulings are unavoidable in even the best judicial systems, alas.

    So, let's draw an analogy. And, disclaimer: I'm not advocating one side or the other.

    I own a field that doesn't have a fence around it. Does that make it legal for people to come and play in that field? Do I have to fence it off and post no trespassing signs to make it illegal? IANAL, but I think the answer is no. How about if my front door has a welcome mat and is wide open. Can you come in and use my bathroom?

    The FCC long held that you could legally receive RF comms, but WI-FI connections are not simply a reception...you handshake, and establish a connection. So, using an open one isn't the same thing (yes, this isn't what Google did).

    I don't think the laws and courts have kept up with the technologies, and this all needs clarification. I've personally always assumed that an open wifi was fair game for use.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise