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UK Gov't Outlines Plans To Privatize Royal Mail

Ellie K writes "After 500 years, Britain announced plans to fully privatize Royal Mail today. Shares of stock (common equity) will be offered to the public 'in coming weeks', according to Reuters. 10% of shares will be given to current Royal Mail employees, Deal size is estimated at $US 3 to 4.7 billion. Goldman Sachs and UBS were chosen as lead advisers." That doesn't mean you'll be able to buy a piece tomorrow, though; as the BBC's report notes, "The plans have provoked strong opposition from unions. The Communication Workers Union (CWU) is currently balloting members on strike action. Ballot papers are due to go out on 20 September to 125,000 Royal Mail workers. The earliest possible strike date would be 10 October. Plans to privatise the 250-year-old postal service have been on successive governments' agendas since the early 1990s."

46 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. fattening the cow by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 4, Informative

    The RM has already been broken up and sold off in stages, each made worse:

    - PO Telephones became British Telecom became British Telecom Plc. in the '80s.

    - Post Offices are barely even owned by one company any more, with each outlet acting as an independent contractor.

    - Much of the post is processed by private firms which get the profitable work, while RM is stuck with the last mile, and all the unprofitable routes.

    - All the above has meant typical public-private partnership inefficiency, such that the price of sending letters has gone up recently way above the rate of inflation - with special increases in the last two years to reflect fattening of the cow for sale.

    Just another ideological move by a country slipping down into oblivion. Will make a few people rich, though. I expect China will be interested in a piece of the pie - it's been buying up a few British infrastructure companies recently. They know how to manipulate "capitalism" all the way to the bank.

    1. Re:fattening the cow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      - PO Telephones became British Telecom became British Telecom Plc. in the '80s.

      And we now have a thriving competitive market for phone packages and internet packages at very affordable prices compared to American, Australia and numerous other countries. There aren't 'routes' when it comes to post, and if we want someone to be able to receive post when they live in the middle of nowhere then we either need to allow companies to charge them a fortune or we need to subsidise it in some way.

      All the above has meant typical public-private partnership inefficiency, such that the price of sending letters has gone up recently way above the rate of inflation - with special increases in the last two years to reflect fattening of the cow for sale.

      The cost to use the service has increased above inflation, which is why Royal Mail is finally profitable. That doesn't mean that the cost to tax payers overall has increased because the government funding of the post office has decreased considerably.

      If you want to know what's idealogical it is the opposition to any privatisation on the grounds that private industry will automatically make things worse.

    2. Re:fattening the cow by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Informative

      Compare your thriving market to you much closer neighbors. Way to cherry pick the worst possible folks to compare against.

    3. Re:fattening the cow by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh fuck I don't even know where to begin with the kind of egocentricity which comes down to "one time one service didn't deliver for me therefore DESTROY IT ALL because the alternatives will surely be better".

      Followed by a link to a Daily Mail article, which is as a reliable as a link to a BNP article.

      Have you actually tried to contract with a truly privatised, subdivided, "free market" style delivery service, like Yodel? They are so fucking awful it's an insult that they're even permitted to operate.

    4. Re:fattening the cow by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      They lied about posting stuff which didn't turn up; cards appeared at my door saying `you were out` when I was not out etc.

      FEDEX does that too.

      You know their promise about how if it's one second late they refund the money? What really happens is that a message appears on their computer that "they called but you were out" then they give you the runaround on the phone until you get tired of calling them.

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:fattening the cow by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We have a thriving competitive market in telecoms? Oh, Sir, you crack me up. We have VIrgin Media, Sky and BT, and almost all your "competitors" are actually using re-sold BT services which only exist thanks to a stringent framework of regulation which nevertheless still operates in BT's favour ("regulatory capture"). Fuck, BT are even required to artificially separate the operations of their divisions - BT Openreach, BT Wholesale, and BT retail, so it isn't so obvious how they take advantage of their position as a natural monopoly.

      The US is certainly worse - because it's an order of magnitude more spread out than the UK, and its privatisation was even less regulated (so, for example, BT are required to provide a certain level of service, which in a lot of cases e.g. remote Scotland is provided through government sponsorship).

      RM had already been broken up into such inefficiency (as above) that it was necessary to drive up prices to make it profitable again. Even the NHS suffers this problem: all your greatly indebted Trusts were involved in New Labour's horrible public-private partnerships. The problem isn't the lack of private sector involvement: it's the existence of subcontracting to the private sector, where none before existed.

      The belief that profit produces a better service per se is ideological. It sometimes does - e.g. when there is a free market - but not for essential services, especially not when they form natural monopolies.

    6. Re:fattening the cow by robthebloke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Using a daily mail article to back up your argument, is no better than using the bible to prove the age of the universe.

      FWIW, Have you tried city-link recently? They don't even leave cards when they fail to arrive for 3 days running, and then they expect you to drive 15miles to their nearest office. Great for those who have a car, but for me, walking a few hundred meters to the local post office is far more convenient than a £50 taxi trip.

    7. Re:fattening the cow by RogueyWon · · Score: 2

      Getting a telephone connected in the UK in the days of nationalisation took weeks. At best. When I moved into my new place last year, Virgin Media had somebody around to switch on the phone and broadband the day after I moved in. They could have been there on the day itself, but I pushed them back a day because I knew I'd be too busy with boxes and furniture.

      Privatisation and the introduction of competition was the best thing to happen to telecommunications in the UK. BT - as in the privatised successor company to the old nationalised monopoly - took quite a long time to improve, mainly because it was stuck with most of the old staff and management from the nationalisation days. But even BT is much improved these days.

      The postal service has a simple problem. An ideological (to use your word) commitment to a universal service with universal fees. Which means that to send a first-class letter to an urban address 2 minutes walk from the sorting center costs as much as sending that same letter to a remote hamlet an hour's drive from civilisation. That means that most users of the service end up paying way above what they otherwise would to subsidise a small minority who choose to live in the middle of nowhere. If privatisation ends that, then fantastic.

      Oh, and they could also do with sorting out the "don't give a shit" attitude of most of the staff (with a few exceptions). That's another consistent feature of UK nationalised industries and if experiences elsewhere are anything to go by, it will be a good few years after privatisation that it finally dies out.

    8. Re:fattening the cow by Xest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it depends where you live. Personally I prefer Yodel over Royal Mail and it wasn't so long ago I was a big fan of Royal Mail.

      Only 2 years ago Royal Mail used to deliver me 1st class mail next day all the time, courier deliveries similarly were always next day and if I missed an RM courier delivery it'd be at my local post office just 2 minutes round the corner. All was good in the world.

      Then shit started going downhill. Over the last 18 months I've had "guaranteed" next day deliveries take 5 days only to turn up when I was at work and be taken not to my local post office 2 minutes away but all the way to a depot a 30minute drive away that only opens past lunchtime (when I'm at work) once a week for me to pick up. I could wait another few days and have it brought to my local post office if I pay more even though it was their failure to achieve their "guaranteed" delivery. 1st class mail now consistently takes 2 - 3 days and I've had some mail delayed for 3 weeks because they decided it was oversized and I have to pay them £1 more even though none of it was actually oversized and formal complaints about this went completely unacknowledged and ignored. They never attempt next day re-delivery anymore and mail always without fail every single day now comes through the door folded, sometimes almost completely destroyed.

      This isn't a one off incident like you're talking about with the GP, this is sustained consistent decline in service over the last 18 months - 2 years and it's simply an unacceptably low quality of service. In the meantime what do I see the CWU folks doing? Campaigning about laws regarding dogs and so forth - perhaps if they really gave a shit about their future they'd focus on making sure their staff could do their jobs properly whether that's because they've been under-resourced in the last 18 months or because company policy changes have caused the decline in service. They can't now bitch and moan expecting public support when they've spent the last months giving that very public an abysmal level of service. It's a two way street.

      Compare and contrast to Yodel and well, Yodel always deliver when they say they will, if I'm out they leave my parcel in a safe place or with the neighbour so I don't have to spend my own time and money collecting it (i.e. defying the point of a fucking delivery service) and I'll simply not ever forget the time where they delivered to me on foot in the middle of a -16c snowstorm because their van got stuck a mile out when Royal Mail hadn't even been seen for over a week.

      As I say, I suspect these sorts of things are very regional but for me, I'm actually pleased to see something is going to be delivered by Yodel because I know it's actually going to end up at my house when I expect it to end up at my house, whereas if I see RM well, it could end up at some arbitrary location within a radius of about 30 miles for me to collect at some arbitrary point in the future but that's about all I can now expect.

      I wont pretend that I think privatisation is magically going to fix anything but you'll have to excuse me if right now I have very little sympathy for the workers, nor do I suspect things can get any worse given that they're already much worse than the service private delivery firms currently give me despite having had more money than a lot of them and a last mile monopoly.

      I'm not even some kind of right wing idealist, I'd love nothing more to have Royal Mail back giving me the quality of service it did 5, even 3 years ago but I don't have faith in that happening because the CWU are as much part of the problem as the right wing zealots who want to privatise are. Maybe if they'd spent more time making sure they had the public on side by doing a good job and less time lobbying heavily against dog owners or whatever they wouldn't find themselves in this situation to start with.

      I agree Tory privatisation doesn't exactly have a very good track record, but as I say, at this point I could really care less, as the service really can't get much worse where I live so it really makes no odds to people like me.

    9. Re:fattening the cow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. The theory runs like this:
      Sell off the services and the private sector will run them more efficiently, so the taxpayers pay less - win, win!

      The reality:
      Sell off services
      Private sector creates 'efficiency' by binning workers & reducing conditions thus increasing the welfare bill (externalities and all that)
      Private company makes a ton of money
      CEO makes millions
      The top management make millions
      Company requires lots of cash so now they can expand in foreign markets or bribe officials for other contracts
      The shareholders need to be paid loads of cash, too

      Result: worse services and once the top management/shareholders have been paid no saving to the taxpayer. But what happens is by then the company is so embedded that it'll cost a fortune to cancel their contracts so councils just keep paying and put the council tax up instead.

      Also note BT have just spent around a billion quid to set up a football channel. Think about that - no money for customer service, a billion for tossers kicking a ball around and the assorted presenters & hangers on.

    10. Re:fattening the cow by jeremyp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >the RM has already been broken up and sold off in stages, each made worse:
      > PO Telephones became British Telecom became British Telecom Plc. in the '80s.

      No. BT were a joke. I'm using a competitor. Cheaper and better.

      Royal Mail are useless. I emailed Amazon begging them to use other people to deliver, not Royal Mail. This happened:

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6768983.stm

      You're not claiming they did that because of you are you?

      They lied about posting stuff which didn't turn up; cards appeared at my door saying `you were out` when I was not out etc.

      The Royal Mail aren't unique in that respect. Pretty much every delivery firm - or more correctly, their employees - does that sometimes.

      Get rid of them, and introduce competition.

      If you want competition, surely it would be better not to get rid of them. However, when it comes to delivering a letter, I doubt you can do better than next day (probably) delivery anywhere in the UK for 60p, which is the price of a first class stamp.

      I don't need the mail much, but when I do, I want it to turn up on time, not end up lost (stolen, let's be honest)

      Do you have evidence for that? Why would anybody want to steal your mail?

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-188892/Quarter-million-letters-lost-week.html

      The Daily Mail is the worst newspaper in the UK. The article is a blatantly dishonest spin on the situation. The headline says 280,000 a week lost. The small print says "lost or significantly delayed". The small print says that's 0.07% lost or significantly delayed or one letter in every 1,500. That doesn't seem quite so bad considering that 8 million letters a day are posted without a post code or with the wrong post code.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    11. Re:fattening the cow by daem0n1x · · Score: 4, Informative

      That pretty much describes it. Every public service that was privatised here in Portugal followed the same route. They used to be public services, now they're huge private monopolies that make gigantic profits, bully customers like they're shit and crush any shred of competition that may arise.

      We have the most fanatic neoliberal government of all times. They should hang pictures of Rand, Hayek and Friedman over their desks and salute them when they enter the office every morning, in the (not so unfamiliar) Fascist style.

      The supreme irony: They recently privatised what was left of our state electricity company. Guess who bought it? A state-owned Chinese company! So, according to the Supreme Dogma of the Holy Free Market, our state can't have a presence in our economy, but the Chinese state can!

    12. Re:fattening the cow by fuzzywig · · Score: 2
      If you're a business, you can get ADSL from BT Enterprise, who, it turns out, are just re-selling Plusnet services.

      Oh, and if you think that being called 'BT' means that they might have some extra pull when you have a problem with your line then you must be smoking something.

      The privatization of BT/GPO has lead to a situation so tangled and messed up you couldn't really make it up.

      Oh, and it also made a small number of people very rich, so mission accomplished there then.

    13. Re:fattening the cow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      There's also a method in getting privatisations past the public.

      Run propaganda campaign against public service (in the UK is currently the NHS and BBC with papers such as the Daily Mail running hate stories every day)
      Put in management with the promise of huge rewards after it is sold off
      Management then 'independently' tell the media that their company would be better & more efficient if it is sold
      Government fiddles accounts to make sure company shows a huge loss
      Government says it can't afford these huge losses
      Privatise... but first use taxpayers money to write off debts, remove pension fund obligations and give subsidies to new private entity
      Sell shares that are deliberately undervalued
      Share price rockets
      Private company releases results 'We've turned around & aren't making losses any more. Hurrah!!'
      Company increases prices. Then argues the price increases 'aren't that much in real terms' or 'we need to increase prices due to following bureaucratic laws on the environment etc.'
      Company then asks goverment for more subsidies for 'unprofitable' operations (rural broadband & train services for example). Government hands over cash.
      Management buy new Bentleys and laughs at suffering taxpayers

      Thing is, if we look at large private companies in trouble it takes years to turn them around. Steve Jobs is hailed as business genius but it took him over half a decade to make Apple into a player again. So when the government tells you a privatised service has miraculously stemmed its losses & improved services in under a year... then its bullshit.

    14. Re:fattening the cow by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Privatisation and the introduction of competition was the best thing to happen to telecommunications in the UK. BT - as in the privatised successor company to the old nationalised monopoly - took quite a long time to improve, mainly because it was stuck with most of the old staff and management from the nationalisation days. But even BT is much improved these days.

      Yeah privatisation: it's private in that the profits are kept private. The reason that it no longer takes infinite time to get a phone is not because th magical faries of free-market woo dictate that it must be so, it's because the privately profitable BT is policed by a massive heap of publicly funded regulation in order to keep them inline.

      Since it is the government that makes BT behave, not BT itself, they could easily have done that when they owned it too.

      Oh, and they could also do with sorting out the "don't give a shit" attitude of most of the staff (with a few exceptions). That's another consistent feature of UK nationalised industries and if experiences elsewhere are anything to go by, it will be a good few years after privatisation that it finally dies out.

      Do you actually live in the UK? Like at all?

      Pre privatisation: go into any station buy any ticket to anywhere. Problem? get it fixed at any station. Also, the staff generally knew their stuff.

      Now: go into a station. Try to buy a ticket. This may be because you can no longer buy all networks from all other networks. And besides the staff don't care especially for off network stuff and will screw up. when you finally find that you have the wrong ticket for subtle reasons, you're too far away from the home network and the staff won't lift a finger to help.

      IOW: It's way worse.

      BT is better, but not because of privatisation. It's better becuase the regulations say they have to be.

      And Royal Mail? The postal service is an important piece of infrastructure. Well worth paying for. You know if people like you weren't happy for the private mail collectors to skim off all the profits then Royal Mail would easily be profitable. But yay free market!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    15. Re:fattening the cow by daem0n1x · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, do you live in Portugal? That's exactly what they've been doing over here.

      As a screaming example, our few transportation companies that are still public: Every time there's strike, there's hate stories in every media about how they should be privatised and all those workers fired, because they are leeches, they make too much money, don't want to work, etc. etc. etc. All those companies are technically bankrupt and the workers are blamed for running the company into the ground with too many benefits, bla, bla, bla.

      However the story is pretty different. Our governments in the latest decades, being right-wing or Socialists (which is right transvestite as left), have been holding the transfers of money from ticketing, forcing the companies to make bank loans to keep operations running. After all these years, the companies are spending a lot more in loan interests than wages.

      The solution to this? Easy. The government will take over all those companies' debt and privatise them really cheap (because nobody wants an "unprofitable" company full of "lazy" employees). The private groups that buy them will fire half of the staff, treat the remaining staff like cattle, increase tariffs to sky high levels, reduce the service to ridiculous minimums and then demand huge subsidies from the government because they are running such a "ingrate and unprofitable" public service.

      Supreme irony, the privatised companies receive money from the state for every passenger they carry and also for the others they've lost due to their shitty service and excruciating tariffs.

    16. Re:fattening the cow by Pope · · Score: 2

      The cost to use the service has increased above inflation, which is why Royal Mail is finally profitable.

      Since when are public services supposed to be profitable? They're for universal service.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  2. That's wonderful! by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wonder how much of that money generated by the government, which it doesn't need, as it's obviously not spending more than it gets from taxes, will be distributed to each citizen.

    I'm sure a simple division of the three billion dollars among the population would work, but maybe they come up with a distribution strategy that gives more to those who have less.

    1. Re:That's wonderful! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The government is spending more than it gets from taxes, has been for years.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. About as well as any other UK privitisation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Things will likely go the same as with every other UK public service that has been privitized: The service will get worse, costs for consumers and end-users will go up, fewer workers will be paid less, but some 'top executives' will be brought in to 'clean things up' and make a mint.

    1. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bingo. Every single UK privatisation since 1979 has been ideological (where the ideology is "I take your stuff and get rich from it"), and not one has improved as a result.

      You would think that the private sector could manage to do at least one thing better than the British government, wouldn't you?

    2. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by captbob2002 · · Score: 2

      You'd think the British people would have noticed by now.

    3. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Rolls Royce, BP, British Sugar, London Luton and East Midlands airports, ADAS"
      All localised companies and not nationwide (monopolistic) services that everyone has to use, why they should ever be state controlled eludes me.

      "British Railways"
      A nation-wide (monopolistic) service -- railways aren't (and can't really) be run according to market principles, why should anyone be allowed to profit from this?
      No idea what it used to be like, but the current railways are beyond a joke. Just go anywhere into central europe and you'll notice a world of difference.

      Similarly the Royal Mail will always have a monopoly over nationwide mail delivery, although that is something that is likely to decrease as more and more of the population switch to having all documents/bills etc. via electronic means (in the timescale of 50-100 years maybe).

    4. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by robthebloke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well how about that great value train service we now have? For the cheap price of £182, you can have a return fare between bournemouth and birmingham (which I was recently forced to pay) The flights to Belfast and back only cost £35 FFS!

    5. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by BemoanAndMoan · · Score: 2

      You'd think the British people would have noticed by now.

      Been living here two years and trust me, they have.

      Everybody here want's everything re-privatized. Power, gas, the trains, etc. The lies that the politicians told during the money grab (better cheaper service through competition) have of course not panned out. Competition is a farce, there is monopoly and scarcity of choice everywhere, unabashed price fixing and price increases that far outpace infrastructure costs and inflation (i.e. solely to increase profit), all in the absence of regulation and built on the backs of trillions of dollars of a tax-derived infrastructure.

      All I see and hear is whining and whinging, though. No reason for the greed to stop, in absence of any real will to stop them.

    6. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let me start off my reply by restraining my natural urge to tell you to stick your privatization trumpet up your ass sideways.

      Then explain to me how Train prices continue to rise, while we are "still pouring huge amounts of money into them as taxpayers" ?

      If privatization meant an end to subsidies, and an end to monopolies, and an end to price gouging and fixing.. sure.

      None of it has. We just give the profits to private entities.

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    7. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You would think that the private sector could manage to do at least one thing better than the British government, wouldn't you?

      The private sector only does better under the pressures of fair competition. Otherwise they're more of a leech than the public sector is.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    8. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Yeah but anyone with £750 to spare can buy shares and make some short term profit, which overrides all other considerations.

      The real fun will begin when they stop universal service.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Thatcher said she would never privatise the post office.

      And Reagan would be derisively referred to as a 'RHINO' if he were to attempt to gain office as a republican today... The acolytes tend to...get out of hand... in their veneration after the venerated has been dead or nonfuctional for a while.

    10. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      I couldn't disagree more. The Housing Act 1988, buy-to-let mortgages, and council house sell-offs have made property inaccessible and shot up the welfare budget as Local Housing Allowance essentially becomes a subsidy for landlords determined by *private market* rates. What's more, these changes, which didn't really produce a significant effect on the market until recovery from recession in the mid-'90s, both produced the housing boom of the early 2000s and contributed hugely toward the collapse of 2007, bailouts, &c.

      What is true is that some councils did a fucking awful job of maintaining property. Their private counterparts are the slumlords who can take advantage of a reduced set of tenant rights. In terms of quality of new builds, there are much stricter standards which apply to both sectors (I'm from a family of quantity surveyors!), but the majority of lower income tenants don't live in recent developments because (with the exception of Labour doing the "priority for essential workers" thing a few years ago) priority remains based on ability to afford, and - of course - everyone wants the new stuff.

    11. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      Most of the big industry losses of the late '70s were due to worldwide recession and inflation following the oil crisis, and had nothing to do with government ownership. Private firms across the West were suffering similarly. We don't blame all the losses by big private firms since the 2007 collapse on vaguely handwaved "capitalism" either, do we? Instead, we look for the specific causes.

      BA is the archetypal illustration of policy driven by ideology: it was made profitable *before* sell-off... then sold off anyway.

      BT has been so heavily regulated that it's almost a waste of time to regard it as anything but a government-protected leech. Since we're not about to let a hundred firms dig up roads just for the sake of a forced free market experiment, of course we don't let everyone offer a cable service - not that it would be very practical anyway, as the barrier to entry is so high that your smaller companies tend to either remain geographically very limited or get bought up by the big boys within a few years as funding runs out (anyone from Nynex to Be).

    12. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      The mail is one of those services that's too big to fail. So it's a matter of a sufficiently big private sector group offering a sufficiently large bribe that it will be guaranteed to keep all the profits but be able to socialise all the losses.

    13. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We just give the profits to private entities.

      Nope!

      One of our train operators is a subsidiary owned by SNCF, another by DeutcheBahn.

      Both of those are public entities, proving very nicely that public entities can run the railways well. We're actually subsidising the French and German public rail networks.

      You know because the free market works and private woo woo etc etc.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    14. Re:About as well as any other UK privitisation by gsnedders · · Score: 2

      A nation-wide (monopolistic) service -- railways aren't (and can't really) be run according to market principles, why should anyone be allowed to profit from this?
      No idea what it used to be like, but the current railways are beyond a joke. Just go anywhere into central europe and you'll notice a world of difference.

      Most of Central Europe has more competition in the railway market than in the UK, not less! Re-instating a nationalized monopoly will just go back to the money-sink BR used to be (where, for example, kitchen cars remained fairly widespread on trains long beyond them getting much custom, because the unions wouldn't let them be dropped).

      The problem with the current setup is that of the difference between freight and passenger train services --- move to running passenger train operating companies (TOCs) as freight ones are run, and suddenly we'll have a system close to most of Central Europe. When it comes to freight trains any competent person can get a license to be a TOC (this is not dissimilar to running public buses!) and then it's just a matter of drumming up custom and purchasing track access rights from Network Rail. The problem is the temporary (but long enough to be harmful!) monopolies private companies are granted as a result of the passenger franchise bidding competitions, nothing else.

      What several other countries did was split up the incumbent as per EU regulation (there's nothing that diabolical about this), but keep the state incumbent passenger service (often with a division between local and intercity trains) while opening up track usage rights to competition. If a private company wants to come in and compete with the state incumbent --- go right ahead! We shouldn't forbid that, as the competition (at least in Central Europe) has forced the monopolistic incumbent to stay on its feet, and keep improving its service.

      And you say they can't be run to market-principles --- for a lot of people, they can choose a half hour later train if it means they get a cheaper (and possibly better) service. If you look up trains between London and Gatwick Airport, for example, you'll see multiple companies running with a fair price difference between them. How is that competition not helping the consumer?

  4. A natural monopoly is better than private company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This plan is corruption at its most horrible. Activate the usual propaganda merchants to persuade everybody the government has a good plan for how to improve a public monopoly service, sell off the public asset to private entities, let politicians earn massive fees (bribes!!), increase prices charged to the public, cut costs thus boosting profits but decreasing the quality of service to the public, publish tons of fake statistics proving how much better it all is now, etc. We've seen all this nonsense before. The train services in Britain are outrageously expensive (compared to cars, planes, and buses), often late, usually dirty, with an aggressive security force with police powers of arrest. Thirty years ago, the public monopoly train service in Britain, called British Rail, offered a much cheaper, and more reliable train service to the public. Prices of many ordinary train tickets bought at the counter or automated ticket machines for journeys at peak times were less than 20% in real terms of the current equivalent ticket prices charged by the private companies who now greedily charge whatever they like. There is no free market. For most journeys, you simply cannot choose which train company to use. Similarly at whatever level of granularity they choose to convert it into private companies, the home-delivery portion of a postal service is a natural monopoly, especially in the more isolated, rural locations. During the last five or so years the public postal service in Britain has been the victim of a disgraceful government push to deliberately degrade the quality of the service, e.g. by encouraging a 50% increase in postal loss rates, so that when private companies take over, they can easily demonstrate an improvement. Etc etc

  5. The Unseen University calls dibs. by MRe_nl · · Score: 3, Funny
    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  6. Darwin Award analogy? by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

    I can't decide if this is a stupid troll or some clever analogy to selling Royal mail. You know, something along the lines of "asking a bank to help hurting yourself by doing something really stupid"

    --
    bickerdyke
  7. The beaten spouse says, "It's different this time" by ReallyEvilCanine · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Because privatisation has worked so well in other countries, as it has in other sectors in Britain.

    Follow the money: from whence comes cash the proponents of this collect? If only I'd been in on a stake in "Railtrack", the company which got to own the tracks the broken-up British Rail trains would run on with no requirement to actually maintain them.

  8. USPS setup for failure by Frankie70 · · Score: 5, Informative

    In 2006, the US Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act", which mandated $5.5 billion per year to be paid into an account to pre-fund retiree health-care, 75 years into the future.

    Since none of USPS's competitors (Fedex, UPS etc) are required to do this, USPS has essentially been setup to fail & then be privatized.

    1. Re:USPS setup for failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since the USPS never had to request money from the government except during election time to pay for the overseas ballots from our military since 1981, I would say fat chance on that.

      The US Post office was a shining example of government running something right. The service was more than acceptable, cheap and the employees were paid great and not only that, this "Not-For-Profit" company was actually MAKING more than it was spending until that bastardized law was passed. The business companies couldn't allow that so they paid to have it fixed, in the veterinary since of the word.

      They privatize it, I will NEVER use it again. But you can and I hope you enjoy it in 10 years when your $50 bill costs you $10 to mail while your postal workers pay has dropped from $18-35 down to about $1 over minimum wage with all his benefits dropping as fast as you can name them but some CEO and shareholders making money hand over fist. After adjusting these numbers for inflation of course.

      Lets put it this way, you could take Walmart, force these same regulations on them today, by next week they would be filling for bankruptcy and running from the US or ANY nation as fast as they could.

  9. Re:Only good if they ACTUALlY privatize it. by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

    tl;dr the mail is an essential service and natural monopoly which shouldn't ever be privatised.

  10. Private company delivering a Public good by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of the things I've never understood about these privatization deals is that people think it will save taxpayers tons of money. The simple truth is that some public goods should be provided by non-profit or state-owned companies simply to maintain the level of service.

    An example from the US is the Postal Service vs. FedEx, UPS, etc. The private delivery services have squeezed every single nickel out of the process of delivering packages, and one of the ways they do this is cherry-picking the easy services to perform. They also charge a lot of money for this service unless you're a big company with a better contracted rate. Anyone can get a package from New York to Atlanta overnight . It's very different when an organization has a mandate to provide affordable delivery of letters from anywhere to anywhere in the US for the cost of a stamp. I can mail a letter from Key West, Florida to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska for 46 cents - that doesn't even cover the fuel required. FedEx and UPS don't directly deliver to areas of the country where it's not cost-effective to do so. The Postal Service has a Constitutional mandate to do this, so it has to be inefficient by nature. Since I'm not a business, I usually use the USPS to ship stuff just because the walk-up rates are way cheaper than FedEx, and now they even offer cheaper rates if you pre-pay the postage online. The USPS is under pressure to keep these rates low, has a huge workforce to pay, and has a congressional mandate to prepay their retiree medical and pension costs

    There's plenty of other examples. Electric and gas utilities have to provide service at a cheap enough rate so almost anyone can afford it. Amtrak in the US has to run very unprofitable long-distance rail service and subsidize it by using the money it makes from its Northeast and California rail services.

    The other thing to consider is employment. Especially now, given the fact that suitable jobs for the majority of the population are going away with no replacement work on the horizon, we need to find something for people to do. A privatized postal service will lay off everyone but the bare minimum number of people to keep the lights on, and outsource all the business processes to cheaper countries in the name of cost savings. This is where my "lefty socialist" tendencies kick in - Do we really want a world where 5% of the population are fabulously wealthy, 15% are working in jobs like IT, engineering, and others, and 80% have nothing to do and no prospects? Remember, the seismic shifts in employment last time generated better jobs. Subsistence farming went to organized agriculture, then mechanization of that caused a shift to factory work, then outsourcing of that caused a shift to service and paper-pushing jobs, now outsourcing and obsolescence of that leads to.....hmm....there's nothing for Joe Average to do anymore and a well-protected aristocracy with no incentive to help. That's a recipe for French Revolution 2.0.

    I know economic theory isn't on my side, but I think monopolies are more efficient at delivering some types of services than others -- not from a dollar perspective but from a service delivery perspective. It may be more expensive, but think back to how reliable AT&T phone service was back before they were broken up. It was expensive, but it almost never went down. Obviously this doesn't apply to all goods and services, but those that have to be universal and cheap are not good candidates for privatization IMO.

    1. Re:Private company delivering a Public good by LMariachi · · Score: 2

      Not everything should be part of the “free market.” Natural monopolies and essential services for example. What if someone complained that the fire department is “losing money?” He’d be rightly ridiculed. Duh, it’s not supposed to be a profit center, it’s something society has agreed to collectively spend money on. Yet people freely bitch about the Post Office and public schools* “losing money.”

      *Public schools in the U.S. sense of the term, it’s backwards in the U.K.

    2. Re:Private company delivering a Public good by unitron · · Score: 2

      The USPS is not losing billions of dollars.

      They're being forced to convert it into government bonds.

      (Which helps disguise the budget problems of the government and let Congress spend more)

      If not for the extreme burden imposed by the 2006 law (FedEx and UPS aren't putting billions away now to fund the pensions of employees that haven't been born yet), they'd be turning a healthy profit.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  11. UK Government? by 0123456 · · Score: 2

    As i understand it, the EU issued an edict that all postal services must be privatized, and this is just Parliament doing what the EU told it.

  12. Re:The beaten spouse says, "It's different this ti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    So aside from the long list of epic failures, privatisation works very well in the one or two companies that aren't a disaster.

    By that reckoning the Soviet Union worked very well because they were awesome at rocketry and chess.