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Cruise Ship "Costa Concordia" Salvage Attempt To Go Ahead
dryriver writes "A daring attempt to pull the shipwrecked Costa Concordia upright will go ahead on Monday, Italian officials have confirmed. The Civil Protection agency said the sea and weather conditions were right for the salvage attempt. Engineers have never tried to move such a huge ship so close to land. Thirty-two people died when the cruise ship hit rocks off the Tuscan island of Giglio in January 2012. It has been lying on its side ever since. Five people have already been convicted of manslaughter over the disaster, and the ship's captain, Francesco Schettino, is currently on trial accused of manslaughter and abandoning ship. The salvage operation is due to begin at 06:00 (04:00 GMT) on Monday, and it is being described as one of the largest and most daunting ever attempted. The head of the operation, Nick Sloane, told AFP news agency that it was now or never for the Costa Concordia, because the hull was gradually weakening and might not survive another winter. Engineers will try to roll the ship up using cables and the weight of water contained in huge metal boxes welded to the ship's sides — a process called parbuckling. This procedure must be done very slowly to prevent further damage to the hull, which has spent more than 18 months partially submerged in 50ft of water and fully exposed to the elements. The salvage project has so far cost more than 600m euros ($800m; £500m) and could cost a lot more by the time the operation is complete."
You can watch the salvage attempt live here: http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/videozone/livestream/MV_LIVESTREAM_CostaConcordiaRechtop
Neither of those were loading for me and/or seemed to be broken. This one works for me...just in case anyone needed more options: http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/livestream-costa-concordia-salvage-4751321.html
For half that you could have had 100 sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads, they would have been quicker, not to mention more enjoyable to watch.
In many cases broadcasting companies are only allowed to let domestic IPs access the stream even though practically every broadcasting company acquires access to the same stream. Here's one for Finland:
http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2032049
and for Sweden:
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/varlden/bargningen-av-costa-concordia-inleds-pa-morgonen
Either way, I personally think the only decent thing to do here is to leave her be, apart from draining off any remaining fuel oil, as a marine grave marker, and let the seas reclaim her. What's happening right now is a desecration.
You don't think she's fucking ugly like that? And an environmental disaster even after the fuel has been drained?
Besides, all the work required to chop her up would be an order of magnitude more dangerous than the ship graveyards in India where the West happily sends junk ships to be chopped up because doing it here would either be too dangerous or cost too much. Daily fatalities on each ship there are something we turn a blind eye to and the poverty there ensures that there despite the dangers is no shortage of cheap labor. Ships are pretty fucking hard to scrap in any "good" way. Unlike buildings, they cannot be demolished so if they're not chopped up at great human cost in India, they're usually towed out to sea and sunk because there's no other option.
Why all this effort to refloat her? As has been pointed out, she's been partially and asymmetrically submerged for the better part of two years, surely it'd be easier to just send in the divers with cutting torches or shaped charges, split the hull, and float her off in sections on barges (as they ended up doing with MSC Napoli)?
Doing that in a marine sanctuary would have a significant environmental impact.
It is suspected that the bodies of 2 more people who are still "missing" may be found somewhere inside the ship when it is refloated. RIP to those who died in this disaster. Nobody goes on a modern cruiseship these days expecting to be "shipwrecked" or "Titanic'd" within the first hours of the cruise..
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
Is this a dress rehearsal for RMS Titanic?
I'm curious as to what makes you think it might be.
Is there something aboard Costa Concordia that we shouldn't know about? (yes, I'm thinking of a certain book)
Uh... the Necronomicon?
What's happening right now is a desecration.
Why? We don't leave mangled wrecks of cars by the side of the road. Wouldn't it be a massive hazard to shipping to leave it where it is and let it get slowly chipped to bits by the sea?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
http://imgur.com/wbgWn
RTFA!
They want to keep the tons of rotting food, fuel, and who knows what else in the ship for environmental reasons. It's also a lot easier and safer to cut up something of that size in drydock.
Why are you speaking up now?
I'm sure the bumbling amateurs who are making it up as they go along could have benefited from your vast knowledge and experience if only you'd bothered to share them earlier.
You're a hoarder, that's what you are.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
this is it exactly.
the only reason why she is getting floated out is because cutting her up as she sits would trash the local environment completely. just sitting as she is is doing enough damage.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
But do it from orbit, just to be sure!
oh, yes, I'm sure they had the same concerns regarding the disposal of the MSC Napoli and its proximity to Lyme Bay. ::rolleyes::.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
are merely an extension of the McDuck, et al. sunken vessel refloatation innovation?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
It's also a lot easier and safer to cut up something of that size in drydock.
Ships of this size are rarely dismantled in a drydock. Usually they're run up on the beach at Alang or Chittagong and cut apart, mostly by hand. You can actually see these operations in google maps. Check the satellite view of Alang, Gujarat, India, and you'll see dozens of ships in all stages of disassembly.
I see your MSC Napoli and raise you an SS Richard Montgomery. :)
Ezekiel 23:20
Wow, way to be a condescending douche. "The autonomous and self-defined individual"? As if there is only one kind of person in the world, "the good kind". Anyone who wants to kick back and relax on vacation...well passive adventures are for pussies, amirite? Jeez modded up to +5, too. How shameful.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
It can't cost that much to bring in another ship full of people from the third world desperate for work. Build a little temporary walled-off town to supply any needed services, and it's simple enough to continue to turn a blind eye to the conditions.
Shiver me surprised! well, not that surprised as there's always a market for the cheapest way to solve a problem, even though I would have thought the scrap value of the metal would be worth something.
You weren't wrong when you said dozens
Did you miss all the sex meetup rooms where they sell ethanol-based stress-reducing libations?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
The only problem in this case is that it will be impossible to tow the refloated ship to India or some other country where they have a liberal view on labour safety. As far as I know, it will be towed to one of the nearby big harbours (Genua, Livorno or Civitavecchia?). I don't know how they will do the actual dismantling there.
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
How do you expect the unexpected? By the very definition of these words it would be an oxymoron.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
how do they get the really large ship i.e. tankers etc that far up the beach. Do they just sail flat out towards the coast and then let the ship plough on until it comes to rest?
You really should open your mind. Cruises aren't for me in general, and for most of the reasons you describe. I get bored and I'm not the type to enjoy a tour bus when you could instead be more hands on. That said, people entertain themselves in different ways.
I know one guy who is very hard working, well educated, and owns his own construction business. He is definitely "contributing something of import" to society. But for reasons that escape me, he loves cruises. He loves the 10 days of doing nothing, not worrying about bids or schedules, turning his brain off with alcohol and too much food, and floating in a pool. He loves the stupid air-conditioned bus rides through places he's never been and would otherwise never go. He loves complaining about the service and the price of booze and the rigged casinos. He goes on these stupid things over and over again.
Even I've had fun on one. We had something of a family reunion on one, and it was a blast. But in all fairness, it was my cousins that made it a blast, and we probably would have had fun in Gitmo. And my dad bought us a cruise for our honeymoon, and it was fun too - but mostly because it wasn't really a standard cruise... the boat simply sailed overnight to Bermuda and then stayed docked for 4 days. It was more of a floating hotel - we hardly were on the boat except to sleep.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
How do you expect the unexpected? By the very definition of these words it would be an oxymoron.
No one expects their ship to wreck, but the ship carries lifeboats anyway. No one expects the captain of their ship to abandon without seeing to the safety of the passengers, but that's what happened, and some of the people who weren't prepared for that eventuality died. You expect the unexpected by expecting something unexpected to happen, and then being prepared to deal with it when it happens. Yeah, nobody wants the job of protecting their own life while on vacation, we go on vacation to get away from considerations like those, but when they turn up you can't just ignore them. That's what the captain of the ship did so long until he panicked and ran away like a rat deserting a sinking ship, which is precisely what he was. But it's also what some of the passengers on the ship did so long that they died.
By definition, we must expect the unexpected. We must expect that we shall have to deal with emerging situations as they develop. Otherwise, when a surprising situation appears, we stand around holding ourselves up.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Even I've had fun on one. We had something of a family reunion on one, and it was a blast. But in all fairness, it was my cousins that made it a blast, and we probably would have had fun in Gitmo. And my dad bought us a cruise for our honeymoon, and it was fun too - but mostly because it wasn't really a standard cruise... the boat simply sailed overnight to Bermuda and then stayed docked for 4 days. It was more of a floating hotel - we hardly were on the boat except to sleep.
This is in essence my basic problem with cruises when coupled with the way that the employees are treated, just one step up from galley slaves. It's irrelevant that you're on a boat because the boat is so big, indeed, dangerously big. It would be smarter in every way to just pick one nice place to have your vacation, and have it there.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
How on earth did you reach this world view? Some of the most brilliant people I know are less than fully functioning human beings... I'm reminded of the famous mathematician Paul Erdos, a person whose achievements are truly remarkable but he famously had to ask one of his hosts once to close a window for him... apparently in the middle of one rainy night, he couldn't figure it out how to close it for himself. If he's a chair-warming waste of space, who isn't?
In fairness, he did say "easier and safer", not "cheaper".
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
scrapped
I don't know why you used a shortened link, but I hit it despite the possibility it might be goatse. Here's where that link takes you: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Alang,+Gujarat,+India&hl=en&ll=21.401534,72.199316&spn=0.023614,0.027723&geocode=+&hnear=Alang,+Bhavnagar,+Gujarat,+India&t=h&z=15
Free Martian Whores!
just one step up from galley slaves.
Most of them seemed to be very young 20-somethings having a bit of life adventure, but they definitely are not paid very well. If you think their pay sucks, you should see the pay of workers at the factory where they made the parts for the computer you are writing on.
It would be smarter in every way to just pick one nice place to have your vacation, and have it there.
Me? Sure. Like I said, I agree. But I know people who have done both and prefer cruises. Some of these people definitely do not match the waste-of-life stereotype that you paint.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
um... you should see what they had to build underwater. What they are doing is having signifigant environmental impact already. There are enormous steel girders underneath her supporting her weight as they roll her out onto them. They aren't cutting her in half because she contains huge amounts of diesel fuel and oil.
Expecting the unexpected could mean that you expect something to happen that you couldn't expect... not necessarily that you expect the specific unexpected event itself... just that you expect some specific unexpected event to occur.
Which, of course, still makes it a completely useless piece of advice beyond "Don't let your guard down. Ever."
Swiss army knife.
What I got is that there's only two kinds of people in a shipwreck, those who can make decisions for themselves, and those who are at substantial risk of dying while they wait for someone else to make decisions for them. I watched a documentary on the incident and many people were just sitting around waiting for someone to save them.
Actually four kinds of people: those too dumb to leave when they're in actual danger, those smart enough to get out of danger, those smart enough to know they're not in danger and wait for rescue, and those stupid enough to have the mindset "do something, anything, even if it's wrong." HHGTG is right: Don't panic. Nothing is more dangerous than panic.
Whether to wait or act depends on the situation.
Free Martian Whores!
I'm fairly sure the cost of a new ship and the cost of salvage have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's like saying "Why both removing the tree that fell on my roof? It's cheapest just to plant a new tree!" That's what the Costa Concordia is right now... a tree that fell on the roof. It needs to be chopped up and hauled away for scrap and they're trying to do it without causing more damage to the roof (which is largely the marine environment and tourism in this bad analogy).
The fuel and oil were pumped out ages ago. The reason why they're not cutting it up is the Italian government said no.
I read the internet for the articles.
The area the Costa Concordia is in is a protected area, with fragile species living there. Dismantling it in place would cause damage to the marine life there, not to mention the possibility of pollution. It's far better scrapped in a controlled environment.
Site & blog: http://www.mayaposch.com
how do they get the really large ship i.e. tankers etc that far up the beach. Do they just sail flat out towards the coast and then let the ship plough on until it comes to rest?
Yes: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ship+breaking+beaching
Collisions are an obvious hazard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTDV2BqfOVg
What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?
I mean, seriously.... do they expect a captain to just go down with the ship and simply die if something entirely unexpected happens to the ship?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The autonomous and self-defined individual goes through life expecting the unexpected, but then I suppose this type of person is less attractive to lying about in floating cocoons of immaculate white paint.
Hold on a sec. Is it appropriate to evoke some Kantian ideal of living one's own life while simultaneously deriding those who choose something else for themselves? If a person is free to choose, mustn't others be free to choose even what you don't approve of?
I am not a crackpot.
Do you have evidence of passengers just waiting around until they died? as opposed to being immediately trapped and unable to help themselves short of diving equipment and possibly cutting gear for getting through closed doors/debris?
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
I'm interested in seeing this floating unfold.
But, what I'd really like to know/see here on Slashdot is how exactly they are streaming this event on the web. From the cameras in use to the uplinks, to the media server software, to the CDN, everything. Basically a how-to for efficiently and cost effectively broadcasting a HD stream from a remote location to millions of live viewers.
News for nerds. Stuff that matters.
Well, some blogs and such don't play nice with long links.
Also people sometimes needs to copy and paste them.
As such, google offers a link shortening service right in google maps (click the chain link icon).
Note the url has /maps/ in it - he couldn't send you to something evil unless it was on google maps, which I suppose there might be stuff here and there.
He could also have trimmed some of the junk in the URL tho...
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=21.401534,72.199316&t=h&z=15
-- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"'
Seriously? Have you not been reading the new stories on this over the last 2 years?
The issue is the environmental impact of both the fuel (largely removed) and other things like engine oil, coolant and sewage which may still be aboard. The ship came to rest in what is said to be a sensitive environmental area. I suspect that the insurance company would be on the hook for any damage caused by leaking oil, sewage or anything else that might still be in the ship. Also, the ship sits in about 40 feet of water on the very edge of a 200 Foot trench. If slips off, it will be MUCH harder to clean up the mess. Diving in 20-40 feet is much less difficult and time consuming than when you go over 100 feet and have to start thinking about using helium breathing mixes and such.
They are doing the least risky thing they can come up with. Right the ship, partially re-float it and haul it off to be scrapped some place else where it will be easier, safer and/or less likely to be a problem for the environment.
Your suggestion to just chop it up and haul it off in bite sized chunks might indeed be cheaper, but there are a number of issues with that approach.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?
He's supposed to be the one organizing the evacuation efforts. He's the one people are reporting the condition of the ship to. He's in charge of the stupid ship. If he leaves, you have a major organizational change on the ship at the worst possible time. He should not go down with the ship, but he should be one of the last ones off.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Do you have evidence of passengers just waiting around until they died?
If you haven't seen any of the documentaries on the subject, that might seem like a completely reasonable question. Hint: it isn't. You could also find this out from other sources. Do your basic research before asking questions.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Indeed some of the fatalities were people trying to help others to safely evacuate. Francis Servel died after giving his life vest to his wife, who could not swim. Russel Terence Rebello was a Filipino waiter who stayed onboard to help with the evacuation, but then fell to his death when the list became too severe. Many died inside the ship because they followed the crews' orders to cross the ship as it was capsizing.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?
International maritime law prohibits the captain abandoning the ship before evacuating the passengers. Their lives are his responsibility. It's equivalent to a bus driver leaving a bus full of passengers teetering on the edge of a precipice and then just running away without trying to get them out.
In addition, in this case the captain sat around holding his dick and pretending that the ship wasn't sinking for quite some time before he even ran away.
I mean, seriously.... do they expect a captain to just go down with the ship and simply die if something entirely unexpected happens to the ship?
Nothing unexpected happened to the ship. What happened is precisely what you would expect to happen if you drive a ship into an area clearly marked as too shallow and hazardous.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Im not sure how you can miss "condescending" in a statement like
I suppose this type of person is less attractive to lying about in floating cocoons of immaculate white paint. We might choose a less passive adventure.
Is there really anything wrong with the community agreeing that cruises are for the weak and stupid?
Yes. Its the same mindframe that leads to racism: Anyone who doesnt look like / act like / enjoy the same things as me, is inferior to me. Its self-centered pride to the extreme, and its astonishing youd have the nerve to try to defend it.
For less money you could patronize a beachfront resort, which if you look around can belong to the same family that's cooking your food.
Gosh, heres a shocker, maybe someone has done beach vacations for years and wants to be on a boat! Maybe theyre older, retired, and not as able to move as when they were younger, and want a quieter vacation! They must be weak, lazy, and stupid, I guess.
Cruise ships are just another example of conspicuous consumption, and if you want a medal for doing nothing
By your logic, so is going to a beachfront resort. Shopping, lazing about, how wasteful. Im sure youre a blast at parties.
Two things say it's better to right the ship, partially re-float it and haul it off.
First, there are likely many gallons of oils, fuels and hazardous materials aboard this ship that would be released when you chop up a ship like this. Yes, they have removed as much of this stuff as they can, but there is no way to get it all with the ship underwater.
Second, the ship sits on the very edge of a trench that is a few hundred feet deep. If you start chopping up the ship and things start down into that channel, it would be a *really* expensive problem to deal with. Diving in water less than 100' deep is dangerous, but when you go above 100' things get much more expensive and technically challenging. Best just move the whole thing to someplace where it's a less dangerous.
Where I think they are likely being way too cautious with this effort and should likely have been done last year, I cannot fault them for the plan of partially re-floating the ship and towing it off. The environmental concerns may be a bit over stated, but I'm sure the risk of not doing this right is a serious concern both legally and financially.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Well, actually it is reasonable to expect that a ship might wreck so carrying lifeboats is a good idea. Expecting the unexpected would be carrying space suits just in case the ship would fly.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?
He's allowed to leave; he doesn't have to go down with the ship in the event of every accident. But he's also supposed to be the most capable and informed person on the boat and the most qualified to organize evacuation efforts. It's his responsibility and obligation to do everything he can to ensure the safety of people who have entrusted their lives to his judgement.
A captain abandoning his still-occupied ship is like a homeowner sneaking out the back without telling his guests that the kitchen is on fire.
Swiss army knife.
These days, they might take that away at the metal detectors. I think duct tape is still ok.
I am not a crackpot.
Are you sure it isn't because she might be repaired and put back in service? For less than the cost of building a new ship considering that the costs of removing her have to be borne anyway.
Some ships that have had everything except the iron hull destroyed in a fire have been put back in service. The most (in)famous example is the Scandinavian Star since ~150 passengers died in the fire which was either lit by a pyromaniac who died in the fire but got the blame for it posthumously - or if you believe investigative reporters more than incompetent cops - lit by crew that got paid to do it as part of an insurance scam. Personally, I would not have been able to go on a vacation on that ship knowing that the cabins and aisles had been packed with bodies that had died from smoke inhalation. The number of fatalities on the Costa Concordia was so small - especially considering her much bigger size - that there would be less of a stigma if she was put back in service (compare with 150 passengers of a total of ~400 on the Scandinavian Star).
Put some fuel back in do you think it would start?
But, but, but... I did cut and paste from the shortened link! It should have been goog.gl/... but I guess either I cocked it up, or google preferred to expand the link trying to be helpful and show us some adverts and link tracking, for our convenience, of course.
I agree with your post except that for this last sentence, and I think we should be honest: the goal is to scrap it in a place where no one cares about the environment or the health of the workers. That's why Alang gets so much business -- no one cares where the waste goes or if there are injuries. In the first world, that sort of work would cost many times as much.
Finland does not have it all. Finland does not have any native armadillos. You lie. Troll.
They aren't treated as galley slaves. I've known many people who work in the cruising industry; they work hard, for certain, but many of them are from third world countries, and the amount they make is huge compared to what they would make back home. They have long hours, to be sure, but they also get free food and many of them are able to enjoy the ports of call like all the other passengers. Remember, they signed up for it, and many do it over and over again willingly. That isn't slavery.
Because, you buffoon, cruise ships are not just about cruising, but about the PORTS OF CALL. You get to get off the boat in Puerto Rico/Jamaica/St Kitts/Aruba/Bahamas/St Thomas/Curaco/Turks and Caicos and see some of the most amazing beaches the world has to offer. yes, some schmucks decide do do nothing but shop, but other people take in as much culture as they can in the short time they have there. Try scuba diving in the Turks and Caicos islands trench in a mall. How does that work out for you?
You do have a valid point... Although I think Alang is likely not as sensitive environmental area than where the Costa Concordia currently sits.
Even if you argue there is no difference to the environment no mater where it gets scrapped, there IS a large difference in the financial liability for the environmental damage, which is why they are spending millions more than the ship is worth to haul it off in one piece. I would argue though that the environment at Alang is much better suited to scraping operations and less sensitive to the dumping of toxic substances into the environment. But, like in every other thing, follow the money....
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I was on a large cruise ship that was hit by hurricane force winds outside of Ft. Lauderdale 2 years ago. The ship listed at 12 degrees; they tip at 40. Everyone was sent back to their room and told to put their life jackets on.
Now, Granny Mae and grandpa Earl, who may or may not be rubes, did not get on this giant boat thinking that this would happen. They aren't "prepared to escape" in the middle of the fucking Atlantic, other than by getting into the lifeboats that are there for them. They are there for vacation, because Grandpa Earl works on his ranch/farm year round and wants a little time away from things in the Caribbean. So for you to say something like " if someone puts themselves in a dangerous situation from which they are not prepared to escape should it go all pear-shaped, they deserve to die" shows how much of a rube you in fact are.
Provide your basic research when making a point.
Erm, I'm not tooootally sure what you mean, but, here's the chain. /maps fact, and also strip down the link he provided to make it a bit shorter
1) You provide a link to goo.gl/maps/something
2) Reply worries that this could be a redirect to some evil website, even though goo.gl/maps only ever redirects to maps.google.com
3) I point out this
The extra stuff in the link doesn't have any tracking info in it. Google just adds it to try to make a version of the page that matches what you've been doing (zooming, panning, your search parameters and such).
-- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"'
If im getting this right, your logic is that "locals" are better than a cruise company.
Except that that resort is probably owned by Sheraton or Hilton, and the money goes to corporate, where it pays down the chain.
At the end of the day, businesses get your money, and at the end of the day your patronage pays an employee who probably lives "locally" (at one of the ports the cruise stops at). You can set all of the arbitrary morality laws you want, it doesnt really excuse the superiority complex that you and epine displayed.
The attitude "Im better than you" might be one of the vilest tendencies of humanity, and you and epine are both celebrating it. Congratulations.
If im getting this right, your logic is that "locals" are better than a cruise company.
Except that that resort is probably owned by Sheraton or Hilton, and the money goes to corporate, where it pays down the chain.
You're not getting this right. If you could read, you'd see that I repeatedly mention that you'd have to shop around on this basis. When I went to Panama and Costa Rica, I didn't stay in anything that wasn't owned by someone who lived where I stayed.
The attitude "Im better than you" might be one of the vilest tendencies of humanity, and you and epine are both celebrating it. Congratulations.
How about the attitude "It's okay to be a materialistic shithead no matter what the consequences to others", how wonderful is your celebration of that tired bullshit?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
One of the things about this story that has been driving me crazy is the continual reporting that the ship "weighs" 114,000 tons. It's a big ship, but it isn't THAT big. The 114k number comes from the ship's gross tonnage, which, despite its name, refers to volume, not weight. The Costa Concordia's displacement, which is essentially its weight, is probably around 55,000 tons.
Proverbs 21:19
Letting nature take its course can be an ugly business.
Here's one, a sad story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/ss-america-cruise-adrift_n_2663875.html
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/8_-_AmStar_7.JPG
And the Murmansk (lost during tow to a wrecking yard), now being salvaged:
http://www.afgruppen.com/Removal-of-the-wreck-Murmansk/
.Expecting the unexpected would be carrying space suits just in case the ship would fly.
Not if you're in a hospital.
Doing that in a marine sanctuary would have a significant environmental impact.
That's part of it. The other part is that the ship is on the edge of a slope into deeper water. There was real worry that she'd slide down the slope while passengers were still being evacuated. After that, the big worry was that she'd slide down the slope, break up, and leak bunker oil for years, producing a long-term oil spill. The first phase of salvage (by Smit, the Dutch salvage firm) was to drain the fuel tanks and stabilize the hulk. They did that with few problems.
Then it got political. If Smit had been given the contract to finish the job and get rid of the hulk, it would have been cut up and out of there by now. That was their proposal. But there would have been some medium-term damage to the environment in the area.
Hence the rather elaborate plan currently underway. The ship isn't just being pulled upright. That's not enough; it's full of water and wouldn't float. An underwater platform was built to support it, and it's being pulled onto that. Then it gets re-floated and towed away.
This is probably the most elaborate (in the overkill sense) marine salvage operation since the Army Corps of Engineers removed the wreck of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1911. They built an enormous temporary dam around the entire area. Then they pumped out the entire area around the ship. Then they cut up the wreckage and hauled it out. Then they let the water back in and dismantled the dam.
There are different types of cruise trips - in a sense they are not much different from any other holidays it is just this 'you cannot get away any time you like' thing that puts me off every time I get tempted. So there is this booze and rock'n'roll one and this light science sort of trip - I guess there are others too.
The other thing I forgot to mention is senior citizens... I know my grandfather is not very mobile anymore. I mean, he does pretty well for 89, but he's not good for more than 9 holes of golf :)
He likes cruises. He can alternately nap and eat at sea instead of at home. He gets to meet people who don't live in his little senior living development. He gets to see things like calving glaciers and cities that he has no other realistic means to see. He and my grandmother liked to dress up every night for dinner, just like the old days. One was a smaller ship that would pop up the East Coast. That was fun because we could go meet him for the day when he stopped near us. He doesn't really do them anymore, but for a few years there he was really into them.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
"my logical framework states that if someone puts themselves in a dangerous situation from which they are not prepared to escape should it go all pear-shaped, they deserve to die."
You don't take an elevator, go into a car or go near a car, do you?
Or, well, you already know you deserve to die.
The ship is now upright. It's not floating; it's sitting on the underwater platform built for it, sunk several decks deep, and still full of water. Next step is to patch the hole in the hull, get pontoons on both sides, and start pumping. Big job, but now a routine one for a salvage company.
At least it's a job in a nice climate, near shore, in a friendly country. Most salvage jobs are in worse places.
too rich for my blood. Damn.
Is she still packing? Last I heard, she was still packed with explosives and back in February I think it was, a veteran ordnance disposal guy said it'd cost over £30 million to make it safe... which the Government wanted happening anyway because it's in the way of the new London Airport they've got planned though nobody's asked for (there's already four, how many more do they think they need??).
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
ah, I thought the little link had been mangled somehow between pasting it in (for example, you can't click a link on the search results page and select 'copy link' anymore as its not the link to the site, but a link to google that then redirects you to the site).
I thought maps had done something else given that he'd described a long long url.
And don't forget to check that your intended destination meets his ethical standards, or you'll never hear the last of it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It's off the coast of Italy, you buffoon. The locals siphoned it all off within days.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Yes. The hull has been lying on its side full of water for two years. This has damaged it beyond repair, which is understandable as the normal operating conditions for a boat are not lying on anything (i.e. floating) in an upright orientation with the water on the outside.
It's simply much more practical to dismantle a ship grounded in a proper dry dock than when it's partly submerged.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
There's likely thousands of people on a cruise ship, and the only way to save them all is for everybody to get in the lifeboats in a more-or-less orderly fashion. This requires people to stand or sit around and wait for somebody to rescue them. When this breaks down, people are going to die. Their best bet is to wear lifejackets and try to get into the sea somewhere where the sinking won't pull them under. That isn't a real good bet for most people. Given any situation that won't save people through crew-directed action, people are at a substantial risk of dying no matter what.
Consequently, sitting around and waiting to be rescued has much to be said for it. The crew is presumably not all incompetent cowards (although the captain does set the tone), and that means that it's reasonable to expect somebody to come along who has a better grasp of the situation and its possibilities than you do. As time goes on, the chance of that gets smaller, but so does the chance you can save yourself by with individual action.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes