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Boy Scouts Bully Hacker Scouts Into Submission
b1tbkt writes "Youth-focused Maker organization 'Hacker Scouts' has announced their decision to surrender their name due to bullying by the Boy Scouts of America. It appears that BSA has interpreted their federal charter to include a claim on any and all use of the term 'Scout' in an organization's name. The litmus test for such a claim, so far as I'm aware, is the likelihood of causing confusion. The term 'Scout' is sufficiently generic, though, and by this reasoning most every airline in the world would need to eliminate 'Airlines' from their name."
Letter from Camp
Dear Mom,
Our scout master told us all write to our parents in case you saw the flood on TV and worried. We are OK. Only 1 of our tents and 2 sleeping bags got washed away. Luckily, none of us got drowned because we were all up on the mountain looking for Chad when it happened. Oh yes, please call Chad's mother and tell her he is OK. He can't write because of the cast.
I got to ride in one of the search & rescue jeeps. It was neat. We never would have found him in the dark if it hadn't been for the lightning.
Scoutmaster Webb got mad at Chad for going on a hike alone without telling anyone. Chad said he did tell him, but it was during the fire so he probably didn't hear him. Did you know that if you put gas on a fire, the gas can will blow up? The wet wood still didn't burn, but one of our tents did. Also some of our clothes. John is going to look weird until his hair grows back.
We will be home on Saturday if Scoutmaster Webb gets the car fixed. It wasn't his fault about the wreck. The brakes worked OK when we left. Scoutmaster Webb said with a car that old you have to expect something to break down; that's probably why he can't get insurance on it. We think it's a neat car. He doesn't care if we get it dirty, and if it's hot, sometimes he lets us ride on the tailgate. IT gets pretty hot with 10 people in a car. He let us take turns riding in the trailer until the highway patrolman stopped and talked to us.
Scoutmaster Webb is a neat guy. Don't worry, he is a good driver. In fact, he is teaching Terry how to drive. But he only lets him drive on the mountain roads where there isn't any traffic. All we ever see up there are logging trucks.
This morning all of the guys were diving off the rocks and swimming out in the lake. Scoutmaster Webb wouldn't let me because I can't swim and Chad was afraid he would sink because of his cast, so he let us take the canoe
across the lake. It was great. You can still see some of the trees under the water from the flood. Scoutmaster Webb isn't crabby like some scoutmasters. He didn't even get mad about the life jackets. He has to spend a lot of time working on the car so we are trying not to cause him any trouble.
Guess what? We have all passed our first aid merit badges. When Dave dove in the lake and cut his arm, we got to see how a tourniquet works.
Also Wade and I threw up. Scoutmaster Webb said it probably was just food poisoning from the leftover chicken, he said they got sick that way with the food they ate in prison. I'm so glad he got out and became our scoutmaster.
He said he sure figured out how to get things done better while he was doing time.
I have to go now. We are going into town to mail our letters and buy bullets. Don't worry about anything. We are fine.
Love your son,
Cole
P.S. How long has it been since I had a tetanus shot?
Aha, worked for my pr0n folder too
Could they change their name to Boy Hackers Of America?
No, learn how copyright law works. The BAS is forced to do so by interpretations from the last few decades. Further, it's a deliberate re-use of their brand name; not just "scout" as in the dictionary definition, but in the specific context of non-profit national youth organization.
Wow, bullying, in the boy scouts? I'm utterly shocked. Who would have though an organization full of teenage asshole testosterone pumps would be susceptible to bullying?
Just because the national management is regrettably old-fashioned and very very conservative does not mean the youth themselves are assholes. At that age they more often actually live up to the public Ideals.
Common Sense isn't as Common as people think...
http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Licensing/Protecting%20the%20Brand/Boy%20Scouts%20of%20America%20Trademark%20Listing.aspx
They have to defend their trademark, or they will lose it. IMHO, "Hacker Scouts" is confusing and when I first heard it I thought it was a Scout-related computer group.
In this particular case I think there is some merit. The goals of the organizations, how they operate, and the "user base" are similar. "Scouts" is nowhere near as generic as "airlines". Obviously the Hacker Scouts is specifically named after the Boy/Girl Scouts.
It's more like me marketing a cereal called "Apple Loops" or something. Generic words but I wouldn't last 2 seconds in court against Kellogg's because I'm targeting the same audience just like Hacker Scouts is targeting the same people as the other "Scouts".
Yes, because no one would use "Scouts" for girls, would they?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Yes, this was done by a bunch of 13 year olds from troop 26 in Spokane, WA - not the adults that run the national organization. There's no way THOSE guys could be a bag of dicks.
Techies don't understand legal reasoning or the law.
No one with a brain does.
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
"I don't think that word means what you think it means".
Since when is protecting your trademarked name bullying? It's simply business. The law forces organizations to do this or they lose their right to their own name. Like the Boy Scouts or not, the problem here is the law.
The Girl Scouts of America were founded as a sister organization to Boy Scouts of America. That is, at one time they were two separate arms of the same organization (at least in a de facto sense if not a de jure one).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The hacking group claims they are creative. They should prove it --- the next creative work should be a creative new name.
Any businessperson knows you must have your own creative and unique names and marks. You cannot ride the coattails of another organization's name without the risk of a lawsuit. A quick search of TESS shows the word "Scout" by itself has multiple trademarks on it. Since this is the name of a youth group and the BSA and GSA have trademarks on "Scout" in youth groups, there is a clear trademark case to be made, and fought about in the courts.
But it gets more complicated than that.
Both the Boy Scouts of America and Girl Scouts of America have a charter from the United States congress. Their charters give them additional power beyond traditional copyright law. Specifically, they include "exclusive right to use emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words or phrases" for their organizations which extends beyond traditional
So first off, all organizations MUST sue when they discover other people using their marks. It is not an option. Trademark holders are required either to defend the mark in the courts or risk losing the mark. So the BSA really doesn't have much of a choice in the matter. The marks they use are also boosted by the congressional charter, so any fight brought by the "Hacker Scouts" will face both the traditional trademark battle (which is difficult) and a congressional charter (which is also difficult).
The group did something any business lawyer would have warned them about --- avoid using any names that are already trademarked. They chose to pick a word that is already trademarked, and are now facing the inevitable consequences of it.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
Wow, that's quite the bullying there.
Once the BSA found out about the name, they sent some of their older members over to intimidate, physically threaten, and wedgie the heck out of the HS kids until they agreed to the name change.
Wait...no, they didn't.
Ahh, they verbally abused the HS group, calling them a bunch of whiny geeks with no right to the name.
No, they didn't do that either.
Oh....they sent a letter, asking that the HS change their name as they felt it may be confusing with their organization. If they failed to comply, they were willing to allow the courts (you know, that group your tax dollars go to partially in order to settle this kind of dispute?) decide on the matter.
Yep, that's quite the "bullying" there.
I've gotta start keeping score on Slashdot. 1 point for every misleading, sensationalist, or simply factually incorrect headline I see. At 10 points a month my reward is to quit reading this stupid site.
Maybe having those charters should subject them to being subject to certain civil rights laws as a public organization rather than allowed to be discriminatory like a private group has the perogative to be.
I know I'm replying to a troll, but the BSA has done tons to curb abuse and bullying. Youth Protection Training is the only instructional course leaders are required to complete prior to contact with any boys. It's freely available for anyone to take at myscouting.org, and must be renewed every 24 months. There have been coverups in the past, but the modern scouts have gone above and beyond to "think of the children."
I don't know where you get this Christian crap. I was active in the BSA from 1975 until 1995 as both a youth and an adult. While it has always been clear that they support the belief that religion was important for good citizenship, I never saw any indications of an implication toward specifically Christian. The Synagogue that sponsor scout troops would also be rather surprised about this. I know that the books on religion included a number of non-Christian religious medals.