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Obama Administration Refuses To Overturn Import Ban On Samsung Products
Chris453 writes "In August 2013, President Obama issued a veto to an import ban of the iPhone 4S after Samsung won several court battles against Apple claiming that the iPhone 4S violated several of Samsung's patents. A few months ago, Samsung was on the receiving end of a very similar case filed by Apple. The International Trade Commission decided that several of Samsung's phones (Transform, Acclaim, Indulge, and Intercept models) violated Apple's patents, and should face import bans. Despite the similarities between the two cases, the Obama administration today announced that it would not veto the International Trade Commission import ban against Samsung products. The move that could spark a trade dispute between the U.S. and South Korea."
US politicians, bent you say? Surely not!
One was a US court ruling, the other a ruling by the International Trade Commission. Presumably, the ITC ruling affects imports to other countries as well.
One more reason for me to dislike him ;)
...some politicians who would fight FOR the UK and give US the benefit of some bent decisions.
Our lot seem to prefer to shaft us at all times...
Apple is an American company, but the iPhone is manufactured in China. Hence the import ban.
How is this proof? Is Samsung an American company all of a sudden?
No, the whole economic system in the US is corrupt and coercive towards foreign companies.
I read the summary and now know all of the details of the two cases and will now give you my strong, educated opinion of the matter.
You could spy on every citizen in your country. That's pretty blatant.
Samsung's patents were standards essential patents which they promised to license under FRAND terms.
Apple's patents are not standards essential as proven by the fact that Samsung has designed around them in their newer products. Further, Apple made no promise to license their non-essentail patents under any terms, let alone FRAND terms.
I know many people are going to rage and rail over this claiming favouritism or whatever injustice but the truth of the matter is this is as it should be.
And this is why I've mostly given up on Slashdot. You didn't even read the linked article that indicated why he held the ban. //Samsung just needed to make small adjustments and has updated their models to provide models that don't violate the patents, the ban is on slightly older models that did violate the patents. Apple's ban was much wider and didn't have any small workaround and would have destroyed their market.
This is yet more proof that Obama is utterly corrupt. He vetoes a ban on Apple's products but not on Samsung's. How much more blatant can you get?
Congress: Well, you heard it. The public wants us to actually get more blatant than that. Son of a bitch, this must be like when they started running out of ideas on Fear Factor.
As I recall, Samsung said that the "lock" existed only until it was activated.
What is their patent on a "headphone jack sensor"? Is this anything like the sensor that portable radios have had for decades that let them switch off the speaker when the headphones are plugged in?
> Just more evidence of China's influence over the American economy.
Exactly how does China enter into this?
Isn't this a dispute between Apple (American company) and Samsung (South Korean company)?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
> Samsungs's products are crap, anyway (IMHO).
Then Apple should have nothing at all to worry about.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
He bailed out Apple in order to "preserve the market" or some such claptrap. How is treating Samsung differently remotely consistent here?
The subtleties of the two bans don't really matter since that wasn't the stated reason for giving Apple a free ride last time around.
Flaming hypocrisy.
Of course getting near the presidency will ensure that your candidate is just like any other corrupt white guy regardless of whether your candidate is black or a woman. No one should ever had any delusions in that regard.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Does your parliament still wear powdered wigs? I'm sincerely curious.
Apple has billions invested in Chinese suppliers? Just a wild guess
It is precise that, Samsung ISN'T an american company, and therefore doesn't get the veto. It was very clear when Apple got the veto that something fishy was going on, normally Obamah wouldn't have anything to do with it..
Patent enforcement should be purely economic. How much money did the infringing party make off using the patent, how much did the patent holder invest to create the patent, and therefore how much do they owe to the patent holder? Restitution should consist entirely of monetary awards.
The patent holder is often not the most capable or appropriate entity to utilize the patent. Enforcing bans like this is anti-competitive and doesn't help anyone. The patent holder would be better off receiving money from a more competent implementation of its patent, than banning all competitors and forcing everyone to use their incompetent device.
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
The reason there was an import ban on the iPhone is because it is manufactured in China. Apple may be headquartered in American but they don't make their phones there.
Which will be very soon.
Nevermind the gun i'm carefully aiming at your head, i won't shoot it.
You know what's more American than an iPhone? Toyota Camry. Built in the US by Americans
Samsung's case hinged on a standards-essential patent they had agreed to license on fair and nondiscriminatory terms and was decided by the ITC. Apple's patent was not part of a standard and was decided by a US court of law. The cases aren't even remotely similar, no there's nothing "blatant" here.
E pluribus unum
I am not familiar with these import bans. Who sets them, and what power does the president hold here?
Bush, Obama, Putin, Merkel, Assad, Berlusconi, Gadafi, Mubarak, ..
Is Samsung an American company all of a sudden?
Is Apple an American company? At least one Apple exec told US workers to stuff it, as Apple doesn't owe them anything. Apple makes almost everything overseas. Meanwhile, Samsung has US operations (for example http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-expand-us-operations-two-new-california-facilities ). Stop thinking of Apple as American just because their headquarters are here.
Samsung just needed to make small adjustments and has updated their models to provide models that don't violate the patents, the ban is on slightly older models that did violate the patents. Apple's ban was much wider and didn't have any small workaround and would have destroyed their market.
But that doesn't make sense. Samsung commits relatively minor patent infringements, and the import ban stands. Apple commits major patent infringements that result in a much more severe ban and the ban is vetoed.
As if we needed more proof. I can think of some WWII vets who have even better proof.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Patents are disgusting to begin with, so this entire situation is yet another example of government corruption (and nothing to do with one specific party, as even the party that claims to want small government largely loves government-enforced monopolies over ideas and procedures).
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
I'm a free trade guy but in fairness if you are going to start blaming countries for unfairly imposing barriers to foreign products, the US would be near the bottom of the list.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
It is precise that, Samsung ISN'T an american company, and therefore doesn't get the veto.
It was very clear when Apple got the veto that something fishy was going on, normally Obamah wouldn't have anything to do with it..
Samsung America has more employees in the USA than Apple does. However, as long as people think of Samsung as a Korean company...
Yet another ingnorant poster. The admninistration's action is to protect an American company, yet you allow your hatred for this president to ovecome your intelligence, what is wrong with this administration protecting an American company? DBAA.
Dubya's dubious international policies have alienated a large part of the world.
But Obama wants everybody to have the USA.
That''s not relevant. The fact that other countries are worse does not make the US any better.
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
And as I recall, there are press coverages around in Germany, stating that the region lock comes to the S3 via update. Go figure. Someone is lying - but who?
Apple is an American company.
How do you figure? At least one Apple exec told US workers to stuff it, as Apple doesn't owe them anything. Apple makes almost everything overseas. Meanwhile, Samsung has US operations (for example http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-expand-us-operations-two-new-california-facilities [androidcentral.com] ). Stop thinking of Apple as American just because their headquarters are here.
I have no, none, zero, zip, nada loyalty or favor towards "American" companies. They have no loyalty towards this country, so why should they get special favor from the US government? There is no quid pro quo, so tell 'em to stuff it.
Meanwhile my wife and I drive Toyota's. They're 80% and 85% value added in the USA, which makes them more American than most so-called American cars.
P.S. Part of the 1st paragraph is a cut and paste from my post above, but it seemed even more appropriate here.
Does anyone know which models are being banned? All the articles I've read say that it's "older" phones, but that's a little vague.
If it's phones released before the Galaxy S3, I'm not sure anyone should be too worried.
And they don't pay much taxes here. But how much did Apple vs Samsung contribute to campaign funds?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Would you rather purchase from a Korean death dealer?
As opposed to the ones made by Chinese, Communist, Sweat Shop, Death Dealer, for a United States headquartered company you mean?
Did I missunderstand your question there, or was I also unaware that the US and China had gotten out of the Military Hardware marketplace?
Well, in my own view, the problem is the "blatantness". The obvious, easily-seen facets of what happened appear prejudicial. The nuance of the situation basically gets no discussion.
Well, he could ignore something that's explicitly in the constitution. That's more blatant.
False. The US would be near the top of the list. http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_status_e.htm Most other countries don't have the political might to get away with what the US is able to.
http://astutehosting.com/
The text for this item is misleading, failing to account for the reasons given for these decisions. And anyone still suggesting this is American bias for their own companies, please explain why the EU is leaning in the same direction? It's not like the EU is pro-US in many decisions.
Obamas decision, and the EU's charges against Samsung (not Apple), hinge around the use of standards-essential patents as a weapon to stifle innovation and competition.
I'd rather not see such obviously one-eyed political slandering pandered as a tech item on sites like Slashdot - save it for the tabloids.
The only thing Apple makes in the US are profits and vacation plans.
I got here through a series of tubes
North Korea is promising death and destruction. South Korea can't afford to get
it's feathers too ruffled.
Samsung's patents were standards patents.
Apple's patents were not.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/10/08/apple-samsung-veto-import-ban/
Stop thinking of Apple as American just because their headquarters are here.
But, but... Apple products say "Designed in USA" Surely that's almost the same as "Made in USA"?
(I don't know of any other product that tries that trick to counter the "Made in China" note.)
Is Obama really THAT stupid? I mean seriously. He's continued to prove that he's clueless about virtually everything (except maybe golf). He only became president to en joy the perks of the job without the actual work involved. And you wonder why we're screwed eight ways from Sunday.
Nice work, liberals. Bloody sheep the lot of you.
Uh, the reigning party are not "liberals". They are fascists that very much put the interests of the state and its ruling class above that of the individual citizen. That the Republicans are fighting for some identifiable position even further right than the reigning fascists does not make the latter "liberals".
Blatant what?
Learn to love Alaska
somebody needs to get that stupid destructive nigger out of the whitehouse
> The only thing Apple makes in the US are profits and vacation plans.
Uh, um . . . patents on bouncy scrolling and slide to unlock.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I guess Samsung didn't pay enough to our Politicians.
It is not about stupidity. It is about control. Obama is a sockpuppet for his corporate sponsors. He does not have his views, he just reads all this crap from his teleprompter and signs whatever his corporate sponsors want him to sign. That's all. After ending his silly presidency, he'll have his well paid, warm chair in Goldman Sachs, Apple or some other corrupt corporation. He'll have his speeches paid $500'000 a pop. Just like Bill Clinton or Tony Blair.
You see, staying in office isn't an end in itself for modern politicians. It is merely an interim position in their quest of getting insanely rich. Their carreer begins AFTER they get out of office and stays until they collect few hundred milions dollars or so. Staying in office for entire life like those pesky congressmen do is so old school.
Would this be enough to get you to stop whining?
http://www.zdnet.com/apples-100m-made-in-the-usa-mac-facility-will-be-in-texas-7000015797/
Samsung's patents are FRAND because they are over actual technology, you know, stuff like radios, modulation techniques, and other things actually developed in a lab.
Apples patents are for things like bouncy scrolling, and slide to unlock.
User interfaces are also "actual technology", Linux die-hards gripes notwithstanding.
No more FRAND patents. No company making actual technology has any economic interest in putting its patents under FRAND terms. Decades of cooperation on technology standards come to an end.
Samsung didn't put its patents under FRAND because of the goodness of their hearts - it's because they get guaranteed royalties at a Fair and Reasonable rate from every participant with the standard. That's a nice income stream, provided they don't start being jerks about it and demanding unreasonable rates from people they don't like.
But even more importantly, your fundamental point is wrong:
If the holder of FRAND patents cannot negotiate with an infringer for a fair price, and the infringer can also sue over its own patents and demand outrageous royalties per device, then the end result is clear.
These pair of decisions do not mean that FRAND patent owners "cannot negotiate with an infringer for a fair price". It's just that they can't hold the infringer's products hostage by preventing import. Basically:
Never seen "Assembled in the USA"?
Agreed. I won't touch either company's products, phone or otherwise.
Don't forget that Pelosi can make Obama jump and ask "how high".
This is yet more proof that Obama is utterly corrupt. He vetoes a ban on Apple's products but not on Samsung's. How much more blatant can you get?
Does anyone have an armchair-legal analysis of these bans? Off the cuff, I would have questioned being able to veto a court judgment as being a huge stretch of Presidential Pardon privileges. But I don't really know where the bans originate.
More Twoson than Cupertino
Just become Too Big To Fail, and the laws and rules don't apply to you. Have you been living under a rock the past few years?
I'm guessing Samsung did not bribe the Obama camp and are now being punished.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-05/apple-vs-samsung-lobby-spending-or-spot-reason-obamas-unprecedented-veto
And they don't pay much taxes here.
When you say "they" do you mean Samsung or Apple because Apple pays more in corporate taxes than any other American corporation.
This is yet more proof that Obama is utterly corrupt. He vetoes a ban on Apple's products but not on Samsung's. How much more blatant can you get?
Ummmm you can't - blatant is just that?
Try not to fall for Republican stunts. Republican extremists shut down the government, then pulled a stunt with veterans as a show for the goobers. Apparently this works on you.
Keep in mind that Fox News, hate-radio, and wingnut blogs only exists to make money off of rubes by painting an alternate reality that's attractive to bigots, morons, and Christian supremacists.
Did you even read what you're responding to? He explained exactly how it's consistent: there's a legitimate argument that the Samsung ban would not have substantially impacted the market because it had a reasonable workaround. That was *exactly* the stated reason for giving Apple a free ride last time around.
If you're going to call hypocrisy, explain why that argument is wrong, don't just ignore it.
as long as people think of Samsung as a Korean company...
And Apple as an American company.
He bailed out Apple in order to "preserve the market" or some such claptrap. How is treating Samsung differently remotely consistent here?
Because one is a patent on a non-standard user interface, and the other is a patent on a standard radio technology. Because the owner of former did not agree to let others use the technology, while the owner of the latter voluntarily said "yes, everyone can use this technology and I will not exert undue pressure or attempt to get injunctions against you, and will instead accept a reasonable monetary royalty."
The subtleties of the two bans don't really matter since that wasn't the stated reason for giving Apple a free ride last time around.
You're wrong, it was explicitly the reason:
"The Policy Statement expresses substantial concerns, which I strongly share, about the potential harms that can result from owners of standards-essential patents ("SEPs") who have made a voluntary commitment to offer to license SEPs on terms that are fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory ("FRAND"), gaining undue leverage and engaging in "patent hold-up", i.e., asserting the patent to exclude an implementer of the standard from a market to obtain a higher price for use of the patent than would have been possible before the standard was set, when alternative technologies could have been chosen."
Flaming hypocrisy.
Of course getting near the presidency will ensure that your candidate is just like any other corrupt white guy regardless of whether your candidate is black or a woman. No one should ever had any delusions in that regard.
I'm guessing Apple donated more money to the Obama campaign(s) than Samsung (if any) did.
So? Apple should diversify their mobile products, if they want to insulate against this possibility. Samsung, on the other hand, creates a multitude of products, and SOME of them were banned. Besides, if I recall correctly, the Apple devices banned were the iPhone 4, which is a three year old design, anyway. Banning that product, specifically, doesn't "destroy" their market, as they probably sell very, very few, if at all.
Cite?
Clearly Samsung has a few things to learn about the American way of doing business. I'm willing to be a consultant to them in this regard, and all for the low, low price of$1M/yr. My advice? Give half of what's in petty cash, because that's all it takes. To companies this size, it's not much money, and it's the best ROI you'll ever see.
Not sure what that link is supposed to prove. US does more international trade than any other country, of course it's name will pop up in trade disputes. The closest thing to an authoritative ranking of the countries by protectionism I could find:
http://www.voxeu.org/article/protectionism-s-quiet-return-gta-s-pre-g8-summit-report
Scroll down to "Table 1. Which countries have inflicted the most harm since November 2008?"
It is compiled from GTAâ(TM)s annual reports (which don't rank the countries).
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
Apple will be quick to inform you that all profits are made by their Irish subsidiary and are not subject to US corporate taxes.
Samsung just needed to make small adjustments and has updated their models to provide models that don't violate the patents, the ban is on slightly older models that did violate the patents. Apple's ban was much wider and didn't have any small workaround and would have destroyed their market.
But that doesn't make sense. Samsung commits relatively minor patent infringements, and the import ban stands. Apple commits major patent infringements that result in a much more severe ban and the ban is vetoed.
Lesson learned here, if you're going to infringe on a patent go big and get away scott free.
Apple Fanboi.
Apparently not.
The reason for vetoing the ban on Apple had NOTHING to do with "a simple workaround" being available or not.
this is not a rationale, it's rationalising.
Not only that, but Samsung's newer devices worked around Apple's patents, showing that not only could Samsung avoid using the patented item, they did.
Samsung's assertion of standards-essential patents is seen as a bully tactic that has gotten Samsung, Motorola/Google and others in serious hot water in the EU, because there is no way to implement a cellphone without those patents. Apple can't work around it and have it work.
Hence why Obama had to overturn the Apple ban, but not the Samsung one. Samsung avoided Apple's patents on their later devices (SGS3 onwards), so it's obvious they could fix the problem themselves (software update!).
In addition, Samsung's patents would've affected all Apple's products. Which has a huge effect on the economy. The ban on Samsung's products? Well, they're older phones - tell me you don't seriously expect not selling the SGS2 and older phones to put a huge dent in phone sales. The newer phones on Samsung's roster like the S3, S4 and others, not affected at all.
It is no mystery that Obama gained a lot of the younger, social networking votes over the past few years. They are also predominately Apple Fanbois. He is also making sure he doesn't lose his support base by enraging these very vocal user of the web. Can you imagine the backlash if he were to do what was right and fair on the legal basis? Better for him to be internationally objectionable than nationally (voters).
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
I saw some tools with a brand name of "Chicago Tools from Illinois" and a logo on the left that said "Proudly Distributed in the USA."
On the back, it still said "Made in China."
"This is the reality... Samsung abused FRAND patents towards Apple"
This is indeed what Apple claim.
However, the courts did not agree.
Yet here you are pretending that Apple's claim is "reality".
What colour is the sky there?
Not even close. Apple is trying to play catch-up with some petty cash. Starting to build a $100M manufacturing facility? In Texas alone Samsung has an existing $13B investment: http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/10/07/memo-to-u-s-politicians-samsung-is-a-very-american-company/
You've got just as much bias as Hussein Obama. FRAND patents vs non FRAND patents.
Shh! Stop making sense, we're busy spreading FUD!
His Imperious Majesty, Obama I, Jiber of Clingers, Giver of Phones, Closer of the Ocean, et cetera, et cetera has stated his preference for Black berries from the barbarian country to our north. He has no need for phones from the Orient, and thus neither do his subjects.
However, the French broke the supply lines from the UK and did most of the actual fighting that resulted in wins.
Sorry, you thought that the Mel Gibson movie was factual? It was only slightly more factual than Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter.
PS you can hardly talk: you couldn't beat a bunch of paddy farmers. Despite carpet bombing the hell out of them.
So much hate and intolerace in this post... Step away from the donkey, take a deep breath, and vote third party for an election or two. You'll feel better.
This is the reality... Samsung abused FRAND patents towards Apple.
Or did they?
You claiming it doesn't make it so.
As far as I know no court has ruled on that matter yet.
There was an import ban on iPhones because Samsung won such a ban using FRAND patents, and the President overturned that ban based on that fact. It set a dangerous precedent and weaken's the FRAND patent and it's ability to allow anyone to enter into a competitive field.
The reverse that the summary so easily ignores is that the patents that Samsung infringed on, and were banned with as a result, are garden variety infringements, and don't require a response.
Apple claimed, and got a court to agree with them, that any rectangular phone with rounded corners violated their patents.
There's no standard that says phones should not slice your fingers when you touch the edges, but it is nevertheless an essential design property. That's not a requirement of GSM, that's common fucking sense.
If you think Samsung is somehow the aggressor here and Apple is a poor hurt little child, you need a serious reality check. Ever since it became apparent that the iPhone had a real competitor in Android, Apple has been trying to shut down the competition left right and center with bogus patents that should not exist.
Firstly, a US court with a Silicon Valley jury found for Apple despite serious juror misconduct (to the extent that their judgement made no sense and they had to be told to do it again). Then after Samsung managed to hit back Obama himself vetoed the punishment.
These events have made the US look like a banana republic where the justice system is weak and laughable.
Try not to fall for Republican stunts. Republican extremists shut down the government, then pulled a stunt with veterans as a show for the goobers.
Ah, so EVIL REPUBLICANS sneaked out in the night and put barricades around memorials. Now it all makes sense.
Never seen "Assembled in the USA"?
Because nothing is.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Republican's didn't shut down the government, nor are they Obama's rubber stamp either!!! Both parties should negotiate. Otherwise, we will default. Some would say that Obama prefers that so leverage more power and control. But I digress.
Slapping "Obama" on a headline just starts up a bunch of uninformed hyperbolic responses that add zilch to the discussion. I'm not a lawyer, so I'd like to know what the difference is between both cases. I'm assuming they're not symmetrical.
BTW, to you editors: Fuck you and all your red meat summaries.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
I would have figured that your first clue on any polititian would have been how many millions of dollars they spent to get the job to begin with.
-Food for thought
Wow. just wow. I can't wait to hear about how the Republicans issued all kinds of directives to unnecessarily expend resources to intentionally make things suck for for anyone using public lands that require no specific spending. Or renting buildings from the government to run business that generate revenue for the government rather than costing the taxpayers a cent. Or parking in a parking lot next to Mount Vernon that happens to be partially on public land. All in ways that no other partial government shutdown has ever affected us before. Those damned Republicans sure are sticking it to us this time, with their execution of these kinds of theatrics. Oh wait, execution? Wrong branch.
Yep, the U.S. would sure suffer after losing access to that giant market.
And because the owners/controllers are American they aren't subject to Irish taxes either.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
When Obama took the podium and showed off all the citizens that are going to benefit from the ACA he fielded a question about the website crashing and he cited that Apple had bugs in its latest rollout and they fixed them but that didn't mean that Apple was a failure. Obama loves Apple. (period)
Really? Only one party blocking compromise? Color me skeptical.
Both sides could come together to work out a compromise. Neither has. Citizens are suffering harm because of that. By that token alone, this current Congress (all members) and Executive are, in my mind, the most incompetent government in the last 40 years.
Any set of competent representatives would have worked this out long ago. Rationally, if some group is suggesting that revisiting ACA is more important than paying the bills, then it is in the interest of the constituents of both parties to work out a compromise: legislation by representation; good leadership. Right now, what we have are people that think leadership is getting to tell other people what to do, which (as history has shown) is not really leadership.
Do you mean the veterans who were admitted to the memorial 15 minutes after they got there? Wow, 15 minutes to find a couple politicians and get them down to the memorial to open it up for so they can appear to help there constituent even though they were the cause of the problem in the first place. Call me cynical but I smell some planning in this. Just because the Republican Party is not as easy a target as the POTUS does not mean they are not corrupt.
Amazing what people get upset about in this day and age. Obama is known to be doing all the things you people have accused Apple, Microsoft and Google about for years and you're upset about an import ban? Really? No wonder America is becoming a third world nation.
These aren't all that similar. One violation dealt with standard essential patents that Samsung refused to fairly license to Apple. The other dealt with design patents that Samsung willfully copied as evidenced by the fact that they refused to remove the offending issues and instead offered workarounds. The only similarity is that there were two cases and two injunctions. The similarities end there. There is a huge difference between banning a product because it copies your patented design versus not banning a product because it needs a standards essential patent that the owner refused to license to you at reasonable costs.
Samsung says a lot of things. They have given several conflicting statements about this whole region locking thing. Every time you talk to a support person, they'll tell you something different.
The thing is, in reality, Note3 owners (who have the region lock) have already demonstrated that none of Samsung's claims about when the lock disappears are true, it stays firmly in place regardless of "activation" or the number of calls you made on the "activation SIM".
That's an awful lot of incredulity towards the fact that I have an opinion and recognize it as such. I'm not sure what to tell you, other than chill. I could do without the patent nonsense entirely, but once you accept it, this situation is quite complex.
Apple will be quick to inform you that all profits are made by their Irish subsidiary and are not subject to US corporate taxes.
So why do they pay so much in US taxes?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Spot on. They donated almost 500 times as much to Obama (and more each to several other candidates than Samsung donated to all of them put together).
I don't read Fox News and I have yet to see one news article that claims anyone but Obama is at fault for the closures of the memorials/parks.
if you can cite something instead of spewing inane hate I'd be glad to listen.
usa is dead
It's the OJ principle... murder someone, go free... steal something, go to jail!
Just like oil sales in non-Dollar currencies, these phones pose a threat to the Dollar. When it's oil sales, U.S will fabricate reasons to start a war to "correct" Middle East political attitudes and thus oil-sales, but with smart-phones you can just place an import ban. U.S is getting desperate to save their Dollar, who knows what they will do next. Industrial sabotage aimed at Samsung? Start a war over smart-phones and other popular electronics?
Signature intentionally left blank.
Samsung is basically nation sponsored. It's like a quarter of Korea's GDP. They get a ton of support in tax credits and skirting of local laws. The same bullshit America does for Apple. Quell your rage.
Or a bunch of goat herders.
And they don't pay much taxes here.
Yes, you are right: Samsung doesn't pay much taxes. Here nor there.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Is Obama really THAT stupid? I mean seriously. He's continued to prove that he's clueless about virtually everything (except maybe golf). He only became president to en joy the perks of the job without the actual work involved. And you wonder why we're screwed eight ways from Sunday.
Nice work, liberals. Bloody sheep the lot of you.
Hey now! Obama has been doing a perfectly good job finishing up Dick Cheney's third and fourth terms.
Grand Theft Auto has annual reports on trading?
I wonder why he did that?
http://influenceexplorer.com/organization/apple-inc/6fba97b1038744ad8ab27d5fac99bfd7
http://influenceexplorer.com/organization/samsung-group/803d3e5b892545db9b30ea9236d67c2a
Oh, that's why.
The White House explicitly stated that they were not making a statement regarding the validity of Samsung's case, but argued that SE patents should not be used as a basis for Cease and Desist orders. The ITC has found that Samsung was in the right about that patent. Neither the White House, nor the ITC, nor any court of law has determined that Samsung was abusing their FRAND patent.
Or it could be that Republicans have tried to repeal this law more then 40 times, and have been voted down each time, and that this is their last ditch attempt to stop it. Maybe no compromise is called for at this point.
How would republicans like it if there was a republican president who had repealed the ACA and democrats shut down the government in an effort to force it to be reenacted?
Shutting down the government is NOT a valid negotiation tactic, it is equivalent to throwing a temper tantrum in the checkout of the grocery store because mom wont buy you a candy bar.
Either way this whole thread is offtopic. Please down mod all, including me.
You seem to imply Samsung isn't already corrupting everyone. Given their track records of boosting their benchmark scores as a matter of fact thing, it shouldn't surprise you they are quite knowledgeable on the art of influence.
Never seen "Assembled in the USA"?
Because nothing is.
Really? http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/12/03/2124209/some-apple-imacs-assembled-in-america
The only thing Apple makes in the US are profits and vacation plans.
And iMacs. And R&D. Etc.
I bet you also believe that Al Gore said he invented the Internet based on what you heard on the Internet?
It usually means Part A (made in China) was taken from one box, placed on Part B (made in China) and Bolt C (made in China) used to join the parts. You don't see it as much any more partly because people got wise to it and partly because nobody cares.
Apple is an american company. It would be ridiculous that an american company could not import its own goods. Samsung is not. Case closed.
Except for corruption, collusion, theft of the design, theft of patents they have nothing to worry about.
Apple will try anything to hold on to their market share.
At least one Apple exec told US workers to stuff it, as Apple doesn't owe them anything.
Really? Who? When? Full quote? Context?
Apple will be quick to inform you that all profits are made by their Irish subsidiary and are not subject to US corporate taxes.
So why do they pay so much in US taxes?
Umm... they don't. According to their 2012 10-K Annual report Apple paid $12.2B in Federal taxes, this was most at a 35% rate applied to securities that their foreign-based subsidiaries (e.g. ireland-based) owned in the US since these values are not considered revenue. These were cashflows that occurred in the US and could not be avoided. Apple also paid $1.2B in foreign taxes at a lower rate (which lowers their effective US tax rate) and avoided $6B in US taxes all together by keeping funds in foreign subsidiaries. So if it were not for their subsidiary, they would be on the line for almost 50% more in taxes than what they are actually paying into the system.
Smart on Apple's behalf. Release a new model every year so that by the time legal proceedings are done, and your product gets banned for violating patents, the product is old news anyway.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Bizarre. You think I just made that up? Go read the summary on Wikipedia and in particular pay attention to the following section:
Sure, they're corrupt. But that doesn't justify attributing others' specific corruption to them.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
When a foreign nation does the same and protect one of its company at the expense of an american company, it will be harder for the american administration to object.
It IS a valid negotiation tactic. When you want something, and need to negotiate with someone to get it, anything that's in your power is fair game. Shutting down the government is available, since it's part of the broken way our system of government is set up, so as long as that's the case, it's perfectly valid to use it. It's not just the Republicans; the Democrats did the exact same thing 8 times during Reagan's term IIRC. If you don't like it, then maybe you should fix the government (probably through a Constitutional Amendment) so it isn't possible any more. Other nations don't have this problem.
The thing that has yet to be seen is how this negotiation tactic works out for the Dems and the Reps at the next election. It could go either way; each side is trying to spin it to their advantage. Obama is doing everything he can to piss off American voters (shutting down memorials, shutting down the ocean, etc.), hoping they'll blame it all the Republicans, using the excuse "the Republicans made me do it!!", which seems to be his usual excuse for everything. The Republicans are using Obama's actions to show how horrible Obama is, even though they forced the shutdown. If more Americans believe Obama and blame the Reps, then Dems might take over the House. However, if they get pissed off about all the truly unnecessary closures which Obama has really done just to piss everyone off, then the Dems will lose seats, maybe lose control of the Senate, and probably (if people don't forget fast enough) the 2016 election too.
Must be nice when $12.2B is not considered "much".
The issue here is that the same company that is suing the shit out of Samsung for "copying their ideas" are, in the same breath, bitching that Samsung will not give them fair terms in a patent pool that they have not give one damn thing to. Samsung asserted their rates due to Apple not giving anything into the FRAND pool, saying it was fair, everyone agrees but Apple, and then Obama just says "Fuck it, I Love Apple" and vetos that shit. Its more so that Apple gets a pass on the serious shit that they really should be paying for licensing vs. some frivolous design patents.
I will agree with your last paragraph though. I fail to see why 2-3 generation old phones are such a big deal. This just seems to be flames to fan the phone wars. I've loved Android since I got my G1 (release day), but both sides are looking pretty bad right now with all these damn lawsuits.
Isn't that a redundant phrase?
DISCLAIMER: I think that both parties are equally terrible.
Easy to call bias - but they are fundamentally different.
I'm not saying you have to *agree* that the difference should be enough to change one or the other decision,
but to completely ignore the differences show a lacking in something, either effort of thought, capability in thinking,
or integrity in speach, or some combination of hte three.
(in case it wasn;t clear - I called you either lazy, stupid and/or a liar)
your classification of minor or major is an arbitrary opinion of yours.
The decision used actual terms with meaning - "standards essential"
Honestly, do you believe that Obama knew this as well as you might? Of course not, the POTUS made his decision based on the fact that he personally LIKES Apple. He may like Apple for many reasons, it is cool, trendy, might have donated to his campaign, or because he might like eating apples (the fruit). He is just another one of fake people that is only fair in his mind, not his actions.
It's deprecated now. It ran on Android 2.2 and in August I got a notice from my carrier that they were no longer supporting my phone since it could not have the OS upgraded. At the time, it was a little under two years old, so I bought a Samsung Galaxy Exhibit to replace it, which has some nice slick Ice Cream Sandwich action going on instead.
Unless the Indulge was significantly altered from the time I bought mine, Samsung loses nothing by that one being blocked.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
as long as people think of Samsung as a Korean company...
And Apple as an American company.
Good. As an American, I'm glad Obama issued the veto.
Going out on a limb here might you like Al Sharpton, Rachel Madcow, or Lawrence O'Donnell, by chance?
Boom - no more exports of Apple products from China to the US, fuck Obama and his illegal antics.
You're so correct, it is a valid negotiation tactic to place a gun to someones head and force them to give you all their money after they ask 40 times and the other person says no. We need to release all robbers from prison immediately!
Elections have consequences, and one of those is the minority party does not always get their way.
Either way I voted Green, as I will next election.
So out of 7 patents that I'm sure you read very carefully along with the judgement, you think it is only aboyt "rounded rectangles" based on a summary on Wikipedia?
And you don't see a problem with that?
In small type, inside the bottom stripe of the flag, it says "Made in China".
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
A lot of their competition didn't make $12.2B in profit.
And they don't pay much taxes here.
When you say "they" do you mean Samsung or Apple because Apple pays more in corporate taxes than any other American corporation.
Apple's effective tax rate: 14%
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/25/sunday-review/corporate-taxes.html?_r=1&
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
These events have made the US look like a banana republic where the justice system is weak and laughable.
There's plenty of prior precedent for that...
Wow, what an utterly stupid analogy.
Placing a gun to someone's head is illegal, for good reason.
Shutting down the government is perfectly legal; it's part of the way the government works and is designed. Therefore, it's a valid tactic. The whole idea is to prevent the majority from running roughshod over the minority; if the minority gets pissed off enough, they can throw a wrench into the works and shut everything down to force a negotiation.
The vet flights are planned months in advance. I know a couple of people who volunteer and work them. The democrats could have just as easily had somebody there to ok it also and move the barricades. Republicans just beat them to it. They get the glory, obama gets the blame.
BOTH SIDES ARE EQUALLY FUCKING GUILTY
(side note:
"Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING."
It is yelling, thus the caps...)
I don't think Samsung donated enough to the Democratic Party. They need to pay up.
However, as long as people think of Samsung as a Korean company...
This has nothing to do what people think. It has everything to do with how much money was given to Barack Obama and the DNC generally.
If I was paying 2/3 of what I currently pay in taxes I would certainly consider it not much in taxes.
I guess just because they didn't keep all the money for themselves it's OK.
I mean, we should be happy they even paid what they did.
If I was Korean I'd ban all US products of all types, just to make a point.
What I was trying to point out is that the closure of federal parks is due to the corruption in the Republican party and not the POTUS. The park is closed because the Republican Party will not allow a vote on a continuing resolution that does not delay implementing the health care bill for a year. The Republicans didn't get what they wanted when the bill passed so they are trying a back door approach now. Trying to put the closure on Obama's pile is false.
What do you see as Obama's corruption in the closure issue?
So does Samsung.
Wrong is wrong. It doesn't matter where it happens.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
No different from doing business in Korea.
This is yet more proof that Obama is utterly corrupt. He vetoes a ban on Apple's products but not on Samsung's. How much more blatant can you get?
What I don't understand.... A person states irrefutable evidence of corruption and then concludes that the perpetrator must be corrupt ... And then this is modded down as Flamebait.
Do people on slashdot actually read and comprehend or do they just follow their emotional preconceptions. Well... based on the evidence... I think that conclusion is self evident. Therefore, I won't state it for fear of being modded down as Flamebait!
Samsung America has more employees in the USA than Apple does. However, as long as people think of Samsung as a Korean company...
Bullshit. At the end of 2011, Samsung had 21,531 employees in the Americas (mostly in the USA, see page 58). Around the same time (February 2012), Apple had 50,250 direct employees in the U.S.
Straight from the horses' mouths.
Well, that's what Apple tries to imply (page 2):
Note that that is an official testimony of Apple to the US Senate, so if it's a lie it's not likely to be very blatant. The fact that they payed $6 billion in 2012 has really not been contested, as you can check through a Google search. Whether it really makes Apple the largest tax payer, I can't confirm.
Well Karlt1 looks like an idiot now.
Yeah, the campaign contributions to Obama couldn't have had anything to do with it.
There is no gun being held to a head. That is a tactic from a political campaign. Every time we have reached the debt ceiling, the parties held something over the other to get what they wanted. In the real world it is extortion, but in politics it is just another day. Both parties do it regularly and it is a common practice. The government has been shut down 17 times now and every time the other party used it to get something they wanted. And yes, every election has consequences. The Dems won the senate and presidency giving them leverage. However, the Repubs won the house giving them this option. So yes, there are consequences, and the house being able to demand change before moving ahead is one of them.
Really? I thought Apple was an Irish company. Or maybe it was Dutch? Or maybe Irish.
And truth be told, I really don't mind our government favoring American business.
This will end up at WTO. If US wants to stand it, South Corea will win the right ignore US copyright, or some other cute advantage.
Neither the White House, nor the ITC, nor any court of law has determined that Samsung was abusing their FRAND patent.
Fact #1: (quoted from you) The White House stated that ... SE patents should not be used as a basis for Cease and Desist orders
Fact #2: Samsung tried to use SE patents to ban imports (i.e. cease and desist).
Fact #3: "Abuse": the improper use of something.
Lemma A: Samsung tried to use SE patents in a way that the White House deemed improper. (#1) and (#2)
So, at this point do I really need to point out the obvious?
Don't quote me on this.
Meanwhile, the only people who profit from this are the lawyers. On both sides.
sustainable living
Yes, the vets that were told by a Republican that all their problems were caused by Obama (who has never vetoed the bill, as it never made it to him - it was blocked by Republicans in the House). Their "proof" is the lies of a career politician, that, for all we know, ordered the barriers put up so that he could get a photo-op taking them down.
Learn to love Alaska
But what are the stats for stock market investment, the money shufflers who reap profit without labor at a reduced taxable rates
I don't know why my comment is marked as "troll". I was just pointing out why they could impose an *import* ban on a device produced by an American-based company.
I followed the original trial very closely. At no point have I said it was only about rounded rectangles, just that this was one of the design issues at play in the trial.
Signed,
The rest of the world
And 27" iMacs and the new Mac Pro.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Grumpy cat, is that you?
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
OK, so if I try to get a girl to date me 40 times and she says no each time, I can lock her up until she agrees to go out with me? GOP logic for everyone!
Apple is now officially a shit company run by lawyers and accountants. Two years after Jobs and they are dead in the water. It's not that they CAN'T come with any good ideas, it's just cheaper to buy politicians and judges.
Apple pie.
Which is the typical way this president handles everything: He cares a great deal about the rule of law, except when its inconvenient.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
That's the problem, the American way of doing business used to be laissez faire, and it was pretty fair, although it might have been sink or swim. Capitalists certainly did try to break each other but they did it through cut-throat competition in the market place.
Now its more like the old Soviet way of doing business. Argue about trivialities in court all day, and secure the outcome you want with political favors.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST. My god its been driving me nuts that everyone keeps saying what the House is doing is somehow under handed or unfair.
The Constitution explicitly gives the House and the House alone the power to originate appropriations bills. Its the House's most effective policy tool. Its there to provide a powerful check on the Administration and the Senate. Anyone complaining about them actually using it, is a short sighted fool, that does not understand they are watering down the strong protections against tyranny our system was built to provide.
Its also nakedly hypocritical. The AFCA was passed using BUDGET RECONCILIATION, basically using the same "parliamentary tricks" in the first place. If the budget should not be used as a policy tool ( an insane proposition itself ) than Obama care never would have been passed in the first place.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Nicer when it would have been $18.2bn, but you managed to wriggle out of $6bn. That's theft by creative accounting.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Oh, this is definitely setting a dangerous precedent alright. Remember that Samsung and the other companies have FRAND patents because they helped develop fundamental technologies that made mobile phones possible, like the radio interfaces that allow them to talk to base stations, whereas Apple don't because didn't. By declaring that Apple's refusal to license those patents shouldn't result in an import ban because they're FRAND, Obama's basically telling companies that they shouldn't waste money developing that stuff.
He's sending a clear message that the companies should instead invest their resources on building a thicket of patents on stuff like UI, wait for someone else to do the unsexy fundamental technology work, then use their work for free whilst using your UI patents to ban those that did the boring but necessary R&D work from selling anything. If this isn't your business model from now on, you're the sucker that's going to be taken for a free R&D ride by the companies that did work that way.
Actually no, he's sending a clear message that a company trying to extort unfair terms in order to grant license to a companies FRAND patents sets a bad precedent, and undermines the very reason for a FRAND patent. It forces those entering into a competitive market to give up too much, often times with cross patents that allow a new company to offer unique features that differentiate it from a competitor. A FRAND patent on the other hand is required by every competitor in that market and should be offered to all under the same terms.
Apple was not offered a 'fair and reasonable' request from Samsung for it's FRAND patents. Samsung was demanding cross licensing of key Apple patents in order to grant Apple access to these FRAND patents. Rather than simply charging a standard rate, Samsung saw some unique patents that Apple had and made them a condition of cross licensing their own FRAND patents.
The President was fully justified in overturning this specific import ban for that reason. If such extortion was allowed, you and I would be paying substantially higher costs for just about anything with a FRAND patent associated with it. It raises the bar to entering into a competitive field where a company could be forced to give away any competitive edge they had in 'regular' patents, just to gain access to industry essential patents.
If you can't see the forest for the trees due to some obsessive fanboi-ism, then there is no help for you.
You mean Obama's corruption in barricading an unstaffed, open-air memorial (among a bunch of other locations throughout the nation) that have never, ever been closed during a government shutdown and actually cost more to "close" than to leave open? What part of that needs explanation?
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Obama uses an iphone. That's why he lifted the ban on it. He didn't want the product that he uses banned. He doesn't use any of samsung phones, so he doesn't care about that one.
The problem isn't one of who moved the barricades. The problem is that we have a president who expended government resources to barricade a monument with a day-to-day operating cost of precisely zero.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
You are correct that elections have consequences, and this past election had the consequence of a Republican majority in in the House. In the House, they're not the minority party at all. And when it comes down to it, the House is the only part of the government that has the authority to initiate appropriations. So no, they're not in the minority where this matter is concerned. They have passed legitimate budgets, they simply weren't to the liking of the controlling party of the Senate and White House.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Oh yeah I should have mentioned frivolous lawsuits too.
I got here through a series of tubes
There has been a solid effort to specifically prevent discussion of the constitutional role of the House and "the power of the purse". It's really the only relevant angle from which to analyse this issue. The "hostage" rhetoric should have been rejected as nonsense a long time ago.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Two problems. First, a congressman does not have the authority to barricade a monument. Second, that does not explain the countless instances of the same kind of barricading happening across the nation.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Funny, I see the same thing on our politicians.
In case someone didn't get that reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement#Dutch_sandwich
So you are saying that James Madison was an idiot when he wrote:
"The House of Representatives can not only refuse, but they alone can propose the supplies requisite for the support of Government. They, in a word, hold the purse; that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the People gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the Government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon, with which any Constitution can arm the immediate Representatives of the People, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure."
From Federalist Papers #58, 1788
The House of Representatives is doing exactly what they were designed to do, as written by the guys who wrote the fucking Constitution. I think I'll take Madison's interpretation over yours.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Compared to what they SHOULD be paying, $12.2B isn't much.
Except the courts agreed that Samsung wasn't being discriminatory. IIRC, Apple didn't even try to license the patents until the matter was in litigation. They displayed EXTREMELY bad faith and then went crying that the patents were FRAND. If you know that you have to license the patent but willfully choose not to and can then go license the FRAND patent without any punishment at a later date, then what's the downside to not licensing the patent? There is none, and that's fucking absurd.
Obama gave a bullshit excuse for why he vetoed the Apple ban, claiming he wanted to try to end all this patent warfare, blah blah. But when it comes to a product he doesn't use, he's not quite so willing to spout those same excuses.
Apple fanboys, predictable no matter what position they hold.
I followed the original trial very closely. At no point have I said it was only about rounded rectangles, just that this was one of the design issues at play in the trial.
So you're acknowledging that you were a bit loose with the facts here?
Apple claimed, and got a court to agree with them, that any rectangular phone with rounded corners violated their patents
Because your post sure seems to state that "any rectangular phone with rounded corners" is indeed the issue. And we both know that's not the case.
This wasn't about making a phone that wouldn't cut users. It was about making a phone that is so close in appearance to the iPhone that many people saw it and asked, "is that a new iPhone?". Just think of trade/dress patents as the trademarks of patents. Samsung copied nearly every design choice Apple made, ultimately producing a phone that was extraordinarily similar to the iPhone. Only a fool would think they could get away with that.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
You're right, 14% is not much.