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US Adults Score Poorly On Worldwide Test
New submitter Norwell Bob sends this excerpt from an Associated Press report:
"It's long been known that America's school kids haven't measured well compared with international peers. Now, there's a new twist: Adults don't either. In math, reading and problem-solving using technology – all skills considered critical for global competitiveness and economic strength – American adults scored below the international average on a global test, according to results (PDF) released Tuesday."
I was starting to suspect that most people were horribly incapable, but I guess its better elsewhere.
But the re-election of BHO pretty clearly underscores any negative remark you want to make about the U.S. electorate.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
People generally forget what they've learned unless they use the knowledge within a few months or so. Americans are work-aholics relatively speaking and thus will bury their head in their here-and-now work such that distant knowledge fades quickly as the immediate situation takes over.
A Just-In-Time education system may be a better approach than trying to hammer in concepts while young hoping they are hammered in deep enough to stay in. That's perhaps not a rational use of time. The 4-year university approach is obsolete, or at least needs big-time augmentation.
Table-ized A.I.
Ha! You mean to tell me that all those kids who 10-20 years ago were getting a shit education grew up to be adults that don't know shit? Say it isn't so! Next thing you'll tell me is that correlation isn't causation and there is some bigger root cause we just haven't figured out yet.
In math, reading and problem-solving using technology [...]
And why would a common man need those skills in modern USA? Cash registers do all the math for a worker; there is nothing to read and no particular reason to bother, with TV in every room; and the only problem that needs to be solved is how to pay all the bills.
Those skills are indeed essential - but only if you are innovating, inventing, doing new stuff. However how many US workers can proudly say that they do such things? The US economy is known to be a "service economy" - and those jobs are static, frozen in time, requiring no R&D.
But if you work for a startup in a significant role, chances are good that you are smart and inventive. You may even read books now and then.
Most jobs don't involve a lot of math or english these days. More whether or not you can socially function and whether you know the basics of using a computer. Plumbing, paving roads, being a cashier, managing people, checking meter readings, working an assembly line don't involve much math or English. Perhaps society only needs a few people per hundred that are great at math? People don't need math skills to drive a semi-truck or make the donuts or take an order or stock a warehouse .... Similar to how most companies only need a few elite coders?
Historically education (especially higher education) was not for the purpose of job training. That was handled by other means such as apprenticeships. Education was for the purpose of personal enrichment and quality of life.
A nation of people who can effectively work their corporate jobs but believe everything the TV tells them will create a fascist dictatorship. In the USA it will probably be a "soft tyranny" of the "we know what's best for you, or else" type, not the "strong man with an iron fist" dictatorships we've seen in the past.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
You must be an American, since you apparently hold the current Secretary of Education responsible for the quality of American public school education decades before he took office (or in some cases, before he graduated high school).
I am officially gone from
Perhaps society only needs a few people per hundred that are great at math?
In fact, the richest and most powerful Americans would probably like there to be not so many people who understand math: Those who understand math can understand how badly they're being screwed by the richest and most powerful Americans!
I am officially gone from
It would have helped if many of those people whose homes were foreclosed during the housing crisis had basic math skills. . .
More importantly, math is an exercise in logic. A population filled with people who can't effectively utilize logic can turn pretty ugly when the government is representative/democratic. Just because Joe the Plumber has the skills necessary to be a plumber doesn't mean that his inability to construct a logical argument won't be detrimental to society. A person is more than their job and their value to society ought to be measured by something greater.
It would have helped if many of those people whose homes were foreclosed during the housing crisis had basic math skills. . .
Does the same apply to people who were paid millions to play with CDO's, CDS's, and all those other wonderful financial instruments that were part of the housing bubble? Or do you not need math skills if you know that you're going to be bailed out no matter how badly you screwed up?
math is an exercise in logic. A population filled with people who can't effectively utilize logic
Speaking of logic, it doesn't follow that people who are bad at the logic used in math, are necessarily bad at other types of logic. Such assumptions can lead to a false sense of superiority though.
The rich didn't vote for ObamaCare to take money out of the pockets of poor people to put in their own.
The foolish voted for ObamaCare thinking the Government should rob Peter to pay for Paul's medical care. They didn't realize they were Peter.
When the rich get to keep their money, so does everyone else. When the rich have to take more money out of their pocket so does everyone else. The difference is that the rich won't miss the money but the poor will. That's why the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.
Raising property taxes to pay for failing education system because you're a renter just makes it harder for you to move up to being a home owner. Meanwhile, the rich can afford the hike and will happily rent the home to you and raise the price to account for the rise in taxes.
Work Safe Porn
Those who understand math can understand how badly they're being screwed
I'll let Carlin get this one:
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
The US' average education has been going downhill steadily in the last two decades or so. Post-high-school education is becoming damn near unaffordable to all but the wealthy, and even basic "participate in the world" type skills are getting worse.
Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, etc., etc. are all American companies
Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had upper-class parents. Zuckerberg was able to afford going to Harvard, Brin was born in Russia and Page was the son to a famous computer scientist. All you're showing right now is that the upper echelons of American society are going to be fine, and 1st generation immigrants are doing well too.
the Internet was created in America, not to mention the personal computer, integrated circuits and transistors. Or GPS, or air travel, or (going back a bit) the light bulb and audio recording.
All of which happened at least 40 years ago.
Most of the things that make the world the way it is today come from America.
Not really. Most of what makes the world what it is today came from somewhere else. Paper, rockets, computing and sewers came from somewhere else. We've had a brief supremacy spell after WW2 until about the early nineties. After that, it's been steadily downhill. We're still ahead of everyone else, but this is exactly like a racer thinking he's going to win a race after losing a wheel: he might still be ahead now, but that's not going to last very long.
And I see this type of short-sighted - actually, less than short-sighted; it is nothing but a snapshot analysis - far too often from Americans. Gloating that their GDP is still tops, that their per capita income is still tops, that they still dominate certain industries... without realizing that the gap is shrinking fast, and that the fundamentals are all wrong.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
That's how the political machine works everywhere in the world, I'm afraid. At least, everywhere that the people think they have a say in matters....
In an ideal world, the question wouldn't be about figuring out who's culpable; it'd be about figuring out how to fix it. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world... people look to whoever is supposed to be able to fix it, and they blame them for not having fixed it already.
I see this as one of the many negative emergent properties of MBA bottom line thinking. You get thinking that thinks that if you keep training an employee in general ways you will end up with your employee leaving and all your training then was to the benefit of another company. Whereas if your employees are under-qualified they will be terrorized into working as hard as they can every day for slave wages.
Another effect of this short term thinking can be seen in most universities. If you invest in a top notch football coach and lavish training and whatnot on the team then you will have near instant wins that you can take to the board of directors. But if you invest in STEM and buy the physics department a pile of cool stuff then maybe, just maybe you will have one of your people win a Nobel prize 30 years from now. Some universities have realized that having really smart students and encouraging them to do cool things can result in near instant wins (Stanford, MIT) but few universities are willing to play the long game (Harvard and Yale seem to be which is funny as they churn out the short term mentality MBAs).
So if you go to a university and want to cure cancer you might have an intellectually interesting time but I am willing to bet that the waterboy for the football team is having more fun. Then on top of that you have the post school job market situation. Again the waterboy will have better job prospects in sales with his BA in sociology than a PhD in Physics ever will. But the MBA or even BA in Business will blow everyone out of the water. Even the PhD who wants the bucks is well advised to jump into something like HFT.
In the past we used terms like rocket scientist and had idols like Einstein and Feynman. But now the best we can do are a few pop culture TV scientists. There is no moon program, there is no nuclear program, there are no blackbird cool skunkworks capturing the public imagination. But there are sports stars, there are hedge-funds, and their are actors and that is about it.
Being a nerd has never been the coolest thing in the world but right now it might be at its lowest ebb.
But back to bashing MBAs. I have been to many companies when I was doing consulting. Fewer and fewer companies are allowing their employees much room for original thought. I have met truck drivers who weren't allowed to change a brake light. I have met IT people who ran a local office yet weren't allowed to deal with the tsunami of malware infecting all the machines because that was not their job. These are systems that were rigidly designed in some central office for maximum "efficiency" that are obviously total BS. You won't get a job in that central office by being an awesome IT person; but if you get an EMBA then you are suddenly VP material.
If you watch the show Undercover Boss the theme is almost always the same. The top boss is surrounded by MBAs who have completely insulated him from the rest of the company. So by going out into the trenches he discovers that the primary effect of the Managerial Accounting that is thrown at him is that the halfwits at the very bottom of the company know that it is being badly run. Yet the reports he gets indicate that things are running at nearly 100% efficiency.
So in this culture of only thinking about next weeks metrics how could someone ever think that embarking on a life long learning endevour would result in progress. Instead a culture of us vs them is created resulting in people reveling in their non-sophistication. If anything self-betterment would be a betrayal of your tribe.
The rich didn't vote for ObamaCare to take money out of the pockets of poor people to put in their own.
The foolish voted for ObamaCare thinking the Government should rob Peter to pay for Paul's medical care. They didn't realize they were Peter.
When the rich get to keep their money, so does everyone else. When the rich have to take more money out of their pocket so does everyone else. The difference is that the rich won't miss the money but the poor will. That's why the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.
Raising property taxes to pay for failing education system because you're a renter just makes it harder for you to move up to being a home owner. Meanwhile, the rich can afford the hike and will happily rent the home to you and raise the price to account for the rise in taxes.
"Blah, blah, blah, Taxation is theft. Helping people is hurting them. Trickle down, bigger pie . . blah, blah, blah . . . "
Why are you still here? Go Galt already and deprive us of your brilliance. That'll teach us a lesson! We're too stupid to understand your intellect, anyway. Your private island is calling you. You've got one, right? Go, while you've still got a chance!
I bring this up because Finland has been mentioned many times over the last few weeks in various regards to education. Some have pointed to it as great with education because of these scores or because the teachers are better or other things along that line. However all the speakers who say this seem to miss an important point that I had seen discussed in a Finnish magazine.
And that is the issue of television and movies in Finland are all subtitled, and never dubbed. It seems minor but it's a huge incentive to learn to read. You can not be illiterate in Finland and watch the popular television programs or movies from America. Even Baywatch is subtitled in Finnish and Swedish. Not only do you have to read you have to read at a reasonable speed to keep up. So as a student if the rest of the children are talking about going to see Iron Man 3 and you can't read very well you now have an reason to work much harder.
What was interesting in the article is that they compared Finland to Germany. Socially the two countries are reasonably similar with roughly similar types of educational systems. However German television and movies are all dubbed, which was pointed out as one possible reason for the large disparity in reading and literacy. From this current report for age 16-65 it shows Finland at number 2, with German below the average and only one step above the United States.
Anyway, I thought it was an interesting idea. At the very least I think all the effort to figure out what they're doing different in schools from our schools won't cover the whole picture. Naturally, good reading skills improve performance in other subjects like mathematics.
From the current report listed I note another interesting pattern on page 63, figure 2.1 which is a list of literacy rates (only highly literate nations, it wasn't a survey of all countries). The literacy rates are 1 to 5. The divide between level 2 and 3 was the center of the chart. For most of the countries, including the US, the percentage at level 3 is roughly the same at 40%, with only a couple countries exceeding that. The percentage of people at level 3 seems roughly the same for most countries listed. The differences seem that the higher countries have more people at the advanced literacy levels and fewer at who are below basic levels. I think Finland and Japan here may do well at low end of the scale because overall they have a relatively smaller number of immigrants and transient workers.
From the very article you quote, the links between race and crime are the now discredited theories of the late 19th and early 20th century. That minority races are disproportionally represented in nearly every area of your criminal system is likely due to their similar distribution amongst the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum reinforced by racial stereotyping such as you are exhibiting.
That's right, I'm saying that you and the grand parent you are responding to are part of the problem.
It is not that you have a black race (whatever the hell that means) crime problem - you have a crime problem because you have too great a difference between the haves and have-nots, too many have-nots and an uneven distribution of 'race' across that have/have-not divide.
Yes, you could demand that 'they' lift their game and stop reacting to their poverty and discrimination by choosing to be obedient and productive members of the society that has historically exploited them and currently discriminates against them, or we could demand better behaviour of those with the resources.
So, you are correct, there are more 'blacks' arrested, more imprisoned and they are over-represented in other areas of the crime. To an extent, that's because they are black. But that's not racial or genetic. That's social and cultural. Your society and your culture. How about you start holding up your end before you start demanding that 'they' hold up theirs?
what's more likely. people with higher melanin levels are more violent, or laws written by the majority population are biased against the minority population.
Do you really think laws against violent crime are biased against the minority population? Really?
How about an alternate explanation, people growing up in inner city poverty are more violent. Once they break the cultural cycle of violence, we see that skin color doesn't matter. It's culture, not melanin.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Are you a time traveler from before 1990?
The US did great for 200 years, inventing all kinds of things, raising our standard of living by literally 1000%, etc.
Then we traded hard work and dedication for laziness and envy. The majority of our society outright rejects as "old ideas" precisely those things that once made the country great. At the national level, we've gone from taking a few years to put a man on the moon to taking four years to pass an ANNUAL budget through just the senate. We've gone from "defeat the Soviet Union" to "emulate the French"
At the individual level, we used to be the greatest scientists in the world - whether we were born here or immigrated here, the best scientists were Americans. Now, even on a site for nerds most of us can't define the word science.
The American dream was to work hard in school, then work hard at your job so you can buy your own home. America represented economic freedom - you could own your own house and even your own business, beholdenn to no-one. Today half of us dream of punishing "those people" who live that way. We aspire to rent control, dream of moving to the city where big brother will tell us what kind of soda we can have with lunch.
The crime problem exists because people CHOOSE to COMMIT CRIMES.
The fact that you think that everyone has equal access to all choices is an indication of the sort of background you come from. Absent your access to education, raised in a home environment and/or neighbourhood with less opportunities and your choices become much more limited, no matter how you capitalise them.
Your reasoning is nothing more than a lame rationalization
I have echoed the proposals of those far more expert in this matter than either of us, if you can fault their reasoning, please do so. Name calling doesn't further your argument.
an example of your own moral decay
Well, you're either a troll trying to get a rise by insulting me, or I've struck too close to home and have stung you.
could justify violent crime
I didn't attempt to justify it; I was pointing out the flaw in your attempt to explain its origin and further, suggesting that if you want it to change, then demanding that those who are less able be the ones to bear the burden of change is both unlikely to yield results and perpetuates the very discrimination that has resulted in the problem.
A disparity in wealth doesn't cause crime
Actually it does - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_inequality#Crime. Please don't try to weasel out with a pedantic argument over 'cause'. Yes, every person has free will, is captain of their destiny etc., but when talking about culture and society it is useful and meaningful to look at trends and forces at a level other than individual.
it sure as hell does not justify crime
That's your straw man, not mine.
Poor white neighborhoods have more violent crime too.
They have higher levels of drug abuse too.
You're simply trying to justify your racism. Unfortunately, the facts you cite don't support your position.
Generalisations ahead.
Joe and Jane American can't think critically. They can't form arguments. My own experience of trying to discuss politics or world affairs or just about anything with Americans tells me that conversation will inevitably come to a crashing halt at one of these two points:
"Because that's what the Bible says!"
"Go back to Berkeley, communist."
If you disagree, contradict, or attempt to educate an American on anything, the reaction is either "I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA JESUS JESUS JESUS" or "FUCK YOU AND YOUR SOCIALISM".
Sure. The coal mining oligarchs were nice enough to set up company towns with company script for money, and would pay barely enough to live. And if you were sick your whole family would be on the street. They sure looked after their people. And while not every oligarch/family were like this, they all had the same attitude and would do it if they could. The good old days were not that good. The 1950's, 1960s, and 1970s were probably the best era in terms of what you are talking about, but even much of that was marred by civil rights abuses.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
Also, the evolutions of crime rates don't follow the evolutions of the racial proportions of the population. Crime is going up or down, and the percentage of blacks isn't going up or down at the same time or even moving in the same direction most of the time. This further disproves correlation between the two, disproving causation as well.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
No, the people voted for single payer healthcare, the rich perverted it into an insurance racket so they could continue to rob from the poor to give to themselves.
But apparently they decided they accidentally let the poorest of the poor have some scrap from the table so now they're going to hold the entire country hostage until they get it back.
Can't let those poor people get uppity and think they have a right to not die young from a curable disease.
Or abolish primaries. They are using state funds to pay for a party petition. Screw that, sign your own petitions.
Learn to love Alaska
You need teachers that can teach the old fashioned way to accomplish something.
Old fashion or new fashion, teachers' teaching styles are not the problem. The problem is that while they still teach facts, the often discourage actually thinking. The incessant attacks by both parties upon the idea that children can think are making it so that by the time they are out of school, they can't think.
Twenty years ago the idea that having an obviously-fake gun in school would get you in trouble, let alone kicked out or arrested, would be considered completely ludicrous. Be it anti-gun, anti-evolution, anti-whatever, schools have shifted their focus from teaching kids critical thinking and teaching them to question the world around them. Now they teach toeing the line, doing what they're told, and never questioning authority. Zero-tolerance policies are at the apex of this trend; it institutionalizes the concept of not thinking when a situation comes up, but instead doing exactly what you have been told to do. When you tell children that even teachers and school administrators are not allowed to use their judgment, why would kids ever think they should? Add to this the terror-inducing effects of zero-tolerance policies (i.e. "If someone would use a nerf gun, they'd probably also shoot you with a real one!"), and you reinforce the idea that you need to be terrified of everything, and trying to use your own judgment is a bad idea.
You want to improve things, it's not by going back to old teaching methods, it's by allowing teachers to teach thinking again and not by forcing them to be pawns in the organized "sheltering of young minds" that the administrations seem to be all too happy to go along with.