Slashdot Mirror
Nest Protect: Trojan Horse For 'The Internet of Things'?
Nerval's Lobster writes "Nest (based in Palo Alto, and headed by former Apple executive Tony Fadell) is out to reinvent the ugly, blocky devices—starting with the thermostat—that we bolt to our walls and ceilings out of necessity. Its new Nest Protect, looks more like something for streaming music or movies than a smoke detector; inside its chic shell, the device packs an embedded system-on-a-chip and a handful of sensors, capable of connecting to other devices via wireless. 'Would this be a cherished product? Can it be more than a rational purchase — can it be an emotional one?' is the thought process that Fadell uses when evaluating new products for Nest-ification, according to Wired. That sounds like something Apple designer Jony Ive would say about the latest iDevice; your own mileage may vary on whether you consider that a good thing. Whether or not Nest actually succeeds, its emphasis on friendly design and function could serve as a template for helping popularize the so-called 'Internet of Things,' or the giant networks of interconnected devices that everybody seems to think is coming in a few short years: by giving stodgy hardware an iPhone-like sheen, complete with all sorts of bells and whistles, you could potentially change consumer mindsets from 'Do I really need to buy this thing?' to 'I want to buy this thing.' Some privacy advocates are already crying foul ('My dear privacy enthusiast: activity sensors?' The Kernel's Greg Stevens wrote, tongue somewhat in cheek, about Nest Protect in a recent blog posting. 'Ladies and gentlemen, how can you possibly stay silent about the possible abuses of such a device?'), but since when have concerns over privacy prevented people from buying the next 'cool' device?"
Whatcouldpossiblygowrong?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
"Research firm Gartner recently suggested that IT spending on so-called “smart” devices and associated hardware could eventually reach $4 trillion"
I wish I could make tons of money by telling CxOs anything that they want to hear.
... selling people "internet-connected smart-gadgets for the home" will be a heck of a tough sell, especially in an "educated" market like Europe. Many people are dismayed to learn that their smartphones, laptops, tablet computers and other devices can be turned into "spying tools" by TPTB pretty much on-demand, with no legal oversight. I don't think that knowing this, anyone is eager to put even more privacy-destroying electronic gadgets in their home. Even an internet connected "smart TV" that can gauge your mood through its built in front camera scanning your face will be a tough sell. It takes one news report of "Smart TVs getting remotely hacked", and people will default back to having a "dumb TV". The Internet-Of-Things will never take off with educated consumers. The "trust" that requires has been destroyed by revelations of NSA/GCHQ snooping on everybody. Its over for the Internet-Of-Things before it has really started. A few dumb consumers may still buy these "internet connected smart devices". But educated/awak/aware consumers? Not a chance in hell... My 2 Cents.
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
Nest has actually released an API for their learning thermostats. http://nest.com/blog/2013/09/25/calling-all-developers/
While it's not necessarily an open standard, they are playing nice with others to be able to add new functionality to their products.
I considered buying one of these, but the mandatory use of a third party server in "the cloud" was a real turn off.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
WTF! At least a thermostat actually does something worth making it programmable for... this is just a ridiculously overengineered implementation of "if fire, make noise."
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
'their' api. That's the problem. A 'standard' is not something you control and can change because you want to change it.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
I bought a Nest thermostat last winter and it cut my oil usage almost in half. Granted I was replacing the original analog thermostat installed in 1966 so can't compare to other digital thermostats, but "smart" thermostats are more than just shiny.
In practice, 'Version XYZ of Open Standard Whatever, with certain bugs and idiosyncrasies' is 'your API' if you go the open standards route. Over time, the really nasty stuff gets ironed out; but as long as it's "Well, we needed an API and there wasn't one, so we made one, here it is." there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that (in fact, more than a few now-open standards exist because somebody was first to need an API, so they Just Did It and then let(or couldn't stop) standardization from happening around that. Like Hayes-command-set modems.
Now, if Nest means 'their' API in the sense that you have to sign a EULA in blood to write a program that talks to your own hardware (obviously, if an API is a mechanism for accessing resources on somebody else's system, they can set whatever access rules they like; because they own that computer; but if they claim to own the API per se and control all uses of it, We Have A Problem.) they can go suck it; but if they just mean 'Our API, the API that we use and implement in our products' no big deal.
If it detects smoke, it gives you a "heads up" warning before screaming its guts out. if you wave at it, it shuts up.
... And so it comes to this.
I'm looking for an intelligent thermostat that speaks an open protocol: Opentherm ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenTherm / http://www.opentherm.eu/ ). Nest is not an option. Back to the DIY projects....
We have fuel oil and baseboard radiators. An analog thermometer isn't smart enough to recognize the ramp up and ramp down times. The result is you set the thermostat to 70. At some point it turns the burner on and at 70 it turns the burner off, but the heat doesn't magically shut off. The radiators continue to radiate and the house ends up at 74/75 before it starts cooling off again. If we wanted to not be hot, we had to freeze and vice versa because you could easily see 5+ degree swings. Smart thermostats figure out the ramp up/down times and adjust accordingly.
Because I own my house I don't need to resort to ghetto gimmicks like putting plastic in my windows. I can just buy new windows (and did). But that doesn't solve the problem of the house ending up 5 degrees above my desired temp because the thermostat is stupid. There is no one solution to saving energy. The smart thing to do is figure out what the problem actually is and then address it, not just insulate the crap out of a place.
Controlling the temp is a MUCH better solution than opening the window when it is 10 degrees outside because it is too hot inside.
Slashdot seems pathologically incapable of separation between something that is deeply functional, vs something that is not, often treating something as useless if it's simply done or polished really well.
The next protect seems like it has "a lot of bells and whistles" but all of them have a ton of practicality behind them that puts them well ahead of traditional smoke/CO2 alarms.
I have a newer smoke/CO2 detector in the house. It has some of the the features that would let a casual observer dismiss the Nest as simply marketing - my smoke alarm after all, has a voice that says if there is smoke or CO2 detected. MY smoke alarm after all, has a button that lets me dismiss an alarm if I simply have a smoky kitchen. What good is a NEST then? Why spend more?
Well I'll tell you. You get a grace period before the real alarm starts, in which you can tell it to ignore the smoke, so the whole house is not pinging with vibrant alarms. And even to dismiss the alarm, you can simply wave at it - which means people with high ceilings, or who are simply short can dismiss alarms easily instead of getting a chair or ladder.
Furthermore the Nest doesn't just say "There's Smoke", it tells you WHAT ROOM. So if candles in your bedroom start something ablaze, you'll know it even if you just dismissed an alert in the kitchen.
It also piggybacks on the usefulness of smoke alarms having hard electrical connections. Since you have a permanently powered device there already why not ALSO provide a motion activated nightlight at night to help you wander around in the dark? Or knowing if people have been in your house while you were gone.
Nest is a company that is producing really well thought out products that offer a compelling reason for spending more on something that has traditionally been kind of ugly and of limited utility.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'd be more worried about the DEA spying on my smoke detector.
just sayin'...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I answered your false dilemma above. Why not do both? I have an efficient house, but part of that strategy was installing programmable thermostats and part of it was installing hundreds of dollars (I don't know how you do anything even in an apartment for $20) of insulation and a radiant barrier, plus sealing all the places where air was intruding.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Nothing in Boston is cheap, unless the bathroom is down the hall and you feel the need to be armed to go use it.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
My smoke detectors are on the ceiling. How low are your ceilings?
a) No - you have to have one to set it up.
b) What is there to control? It's a smoke detector. Making the alarm stop is really the only control it has.
It does have an audible alarm. But it has a pre-alarm for light smoke like cooking. And really the only gesture control is waving in front of the detector to decrease its sensitivity temporarily. Same thing you'd do with a dumb smoke detector, only easier.
$129 is too much, but it's not entirely useless.
more reasons I DON'T WANT THIS:
1. The potential for gangstalking (it's a thing, I read it on the internet) . You think the low battery warning and the random 3 AM beep is annoying now? Put your therapist on retainer now.
2. Do you really want to give big brother a 85-decibel compliance enforcer in your own home?
3. Does this thing have a warning strobe? I bet it has a strobe. Yet another high-intensity sensory overload device for script kiddies and the KGB to attack you with. Lord help you if someone in your household is photosensitive or suffers from migraines.
These infernal devices are guaranteed to come from the factory infested with the ghost of George Hayduke.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff