Slashdot Mirror
Books With "Questionable Content" Being Deleted From ebookstores In Sweeping Ban
Nate the greatest writes "The Kernel started an uproar last week when they 'discovered' that the Kindle Store and other ebookstores sell adult content in the erotica category. None of the content is actually illegal, but it is icky enough that the major ebookstores decided to respond by removing anything even vaguely questionable. Unfortunately, they went too far, resulting in an act of censorship the likes of which we haven't seen since Paypal went after the indie ebook distributor Smashwords. The Daily Mail reports that WH Smith went so far as to shut down their website with the promise that it won't reopen until all self-published titles have been removed, and according to BBC News, B&N is also deleting content. Numerous authors have reported on KBoards that Amazon and B&N have removed far more than just the titles that feature questionable content like pseudo-incest; they appear to be running keyword searches and removing any title that mentions innocuous words like babysitter, sister, or teenager. And they're not the only ones; there's a new report that Kobo has jumped on the ban wagon as well."
Who decides? Isn't this a Shade of Grey here? Think that book will get banned as well, as popular as it is? (never read it and never will, but am aware of its cultural significance)
Fahrenheit 451?
"The Daily Mail reports that WH Smith went so far as to shut down their website with the promise that it won't reopen until all self-published titles have been removed"
This is completely untrue. What WH Smith have decided to do is take down their site until they can be sure that no self-published books turn up in keyword searches, because some really un-child-friendly books have been turning up for quite innocuous searches (like 'daddy').
It's not really an overreaction in any country which has the Daily Mail.
Every time we complete some sort of cycle, discover a new tribe, a new people, new nation or continent, new media, new format, new distribution whatever, there's always this stupid witch hunt. -Oh no a person is saying/writing/portraying things I don't agree with, this must stop right now. Democracy is bad. Censor that shit right away! -burn all those books.
To make it worse there's this pseudo fanatical craze to get rid of nudity with a passion but violence? not so much. somehow nudity is worse...reminds me of the MPAA rating system. Sure you can show blood, but the naked human body? are you out of your mind?!
This is always the problem with controlled distribution, formats and media. Someone decides what's best for you.
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
I assume. I can't actually read it, it's banned because Wiston and Julia have sex while Big Brother is watching and that's incest or something.
This is what digital books are going to get you , censorship, on the fly redactions and corrections to appeal to current political climates, and a simple refusal to sell anything that in anyway displeases the power elite.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Because that's chock full of incest, and we wouldn't want to apply our arbitrary rules inconsistently, would we?
Store owners are free to carry whatever books they want. This is a market opportunity.
Stop bitching and open your own store for these kinds of books (e-erotica? oof...). Evidently there's some space to make money here.
Yes you do, because before long they have a Facebook page / Twitter rant dedicated to getting rid of you and every other brainless twit has jumped on board.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
They may be going too far in their deletions, but whether you like it or not, it IS their business and choice. Censorship has to do with government actions, not the decisions of private businesses.
So are they going to refund the billion dollars they sold of 50 Shades of Gray? Or is the difference not in content but in sales?
lol captcha is "modest"
I myself like Japanese anime and culture, and have read a few doujinshi which feature young anime characters in sexual situations, but...
>The National Crime Agency warned on Sunday that books appearing to legitimise child abuse "might feed the fantasies of paedophiles and in some cases encourage child sexual abusers to commit contact offences".
I'm sorry, but that's just bullshit.
Maybe we should ban first person shooters too because it might legitimize murder and encourage people to commit actual offences...
Anyone who can't tell the difference between an actual, human person and fictional character(s) are no different than the ones who abuse children, or murder, or rape women...
Well, not that i am into erotica, but I dislike being told what I am being allowed to read by private company.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Tomorrow dissident materials, then anything that anyone doesn't like. And don't forget they know who bought these e-books, that might be grounds for a search warrant.
Now, it is their right as a business not to carry anything they don't personally approve of, but it is a bad path we are heading down.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
So let's start a Facebook/Twitter rant about their censorship and let them decide which shitstorm to deal with.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Erotica and romance novels are two completely different categories. Romance novels usually have some sort of plot or story that would function just fine without the smut. Erotica (aka plot? what plot?) would suffer as a story with the smut stripped out because it takes up the bulk of the content.
Romance is what women use to masturbate whereas erotica is what men use. That's been my experience of what the definition of the two are when it comes to policy.
When having to choose between siding with a pedophile and siding with a politician, the choice is easy: Side with the pedo.
Simple self interest. The chance that the pedo might do something that harms me is zero. I'm too old for that. No such luck with the politician, though.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"e-books" are a viable option, its ones with DRM attached that are not.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
In this case, it's working like The Thought Police, but hey, at least it's responding to all the "think of the children" bleating. Right?
There's nothing wrong with some teautiful bitties, but if you ask for a book of bedtime stories to read your kid, and the store clerk points you to "Daddy Incest Volume #3," then there's a problem. That's what's going on here. And it is a problem.
Yes, but as described, it's an indexing and access control problem. Yes, the merchant is free to solve that problem however he/she wishes, but let's not color the issue any more than it has been already.
have you actually READ any of the "romance" novels? romanticizing adultery? yeah that's there. lewd descriptions of sex? yeah that's there. just general descriptions about hot nights? yeah most definitely there.
ladies magazines and mens xxx mags stories are pretty much the same. what's the difference otherwise? well, the pictures of course. and that in the womens magazines half the articles are about how to get laid(the rest of the articles are just indirectly about it).
oh and they would NOT function without the smut. not by a long shot. how the fuck do you make a story about being an (american)indian in 16th century raped(romantically-consensually) by a sensuel colonist function without the smut about fondling breasts and being fucked while tied up?? turn a 4 page novellette into one paragraph??
lady of camellias is something that sort of works without the smut, by just implying the smut. the cheap stuff on womens magazines.. not so much.
oh and the only way to enjoy those stories is to get some hot chicks to read them whilst sipping wine(in university, IT guild ftw). it's better if you get some late victorian style smut though..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
After Amazon pulled the first revokation, I decided that ebooks were no longer a viable option.
Actually, ebooks are just as viable an option as paper books.
paper books are recalled too if somebody convinces the authorities or the publisher that something is wrong or illegal about the book.
The problem with ebooks are DRM and other schemes that allow ebook shops to pull ebooks from users reading devices.
But if you buy ebooks DRM-free and download them immediately to a medium that only you have control over nobody can remove or change content.
Where exactly is far?
Haha. You're retarded. Erotica means whatever the person using the word wants it to mean. That's everything from straight up fapfiction to extremely well written stories that happen to have explicit sex.
But I love that webcomic!
Women want more (about 200 pages) foreplay than men, what else is new?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
What you do what those books were written in a culture different than ours, describing things that were normal, accepted or according with the moral values of that time or place compared with the ones of our times? what about the future with our own values? Oh, wait there is no place in the future for our current books.
Maybe most of what was banned deserved it, had no literary or any other value at all. But was all? And setting this precedent is opening the door for bad abuses of it, specially when people use their subjectivity (and political agenda, and economical interests, and so on) to decide what goes and what not.
Maybe will be for the best, it will open an opportunity for alternate/uncensored markets (and no markets as "selling" could not be the main target there), leaving the current "sell digital as if it were paper" establishment behind at last.
But then shouldn't we have geo-blocking according to the different laws? Some things are illegal in some countries while others are illegal in others. AFAIK in the USA there is this law that says that as long as your art work has artistic merit, it can contain obscene and/or illegal content.
My "issue" (it isn't really one) is that the companies are deciding to not sell it at all (was already a policy to begin with) instead of trying to get them a protected section (which is what people complain about: that there is no age check whatsoever when looking for this content). It just tells me that if I want to sell something like that, I'm better off trying to sell it on my own instead of using a big store*.
*And big stores are big exactly because they make sure to not carry offensive content at all in any section. AFAIK there isn't even a adult section on most big store chains and the like.
I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
Example #4: Also read the well written BBC article as well.
Sure, I got sucked into the thought that this was about censorship. Then I did the opposite of /., I read the articles and discovered that instead of this being Bad Amazon, Bad B&N, it was more along the lines of Bad Authors who snuck their works in under the self-publishing loop hole.
Had a smut author walked in the front door of Amazon or B&N and said "hey, will you sell my ... works ... centered around incest, rape, and pedophilia" they would be handed a copy of those store's book offering policy and shown the door. Instead, the authors use the self-publishing (and not well policed) approach to get into Amazon's store.
In the end I did not see this a censorship. Amazon and B&N are not pulling an ebook from a reader, they are removing content that violates their business model. That is their right. As others stated, authors can find other means to promote and sell their work other then through Amazon. I am sure one can still go out there and find such literary works like "I raped my drunk little girl", download them to their Kindle/Nook and ... "enjoy them?" That is not censorship. Now if a Government makes broad sweep removals requirement for all businesses...then we can debate censorship.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
So we can't buy bibles on line anymore?
Have gnu, will travel.
Please ban the following books as a threat to an Orderly Society. Also, the children. KThxBye!
* The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
* The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
* The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
* To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
* The Color Purple by Alice Walker
* Ulysses by James Joyce
* Beloved by Toni Morrison
* The Lord of the Flies by William Golding
* 1984 by George Orwell
* The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner
* Lolita by Vladmir Nabokov
* Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
* Charlotte’s Web by E.B. White
* A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce
* Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
* Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
* Animal Farm by George Orwell
* The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemingway
* As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
* A Farewell to Arms by Ernest Hemingway
* Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad
* Winnie-the-Pooh by A.A. Milne
* Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston
* Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison
* Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison
* Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
* Native Son by Richard Wright
* One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest by Ken Kesey
* Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut
* For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway
* On the Road by Jack Kerouac
* The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway
* The Call of the Wild by Jack London
* To the Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf
* Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
* Go Tell it on the Mountain by James Baldwin
* The World According to Garp by John Irving
* All the King’s Men by Robert Penn Warren
* A Room with a View by E.M. Forster
* The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
Not only should they remove "50 Shades of Grey", they should also remove "Lady Chatterley's Lover" by DH Lawrence, Nabokov's "Lolita" and Erica Yong's "Fear of Flying", as well as the pictures of all those pornographic statues like Michelangelo's "David", Myron's "Discobolus" or Rodin's "Thinker". The breast of Justitia, the Roman Goddess of justice so frequently depicted in courts as a crazy topless chick with some hardware her hands, should also be decently covered. Sex is bad because the lack of parking lots here in the NYC is a straightforward result of sex. Congestion on the highways, too. I know that Bible says "be fruitful and multiply", but this is ridiculous! Has any of those "be fruitful and multiply" proponents actually tried driving on the LIE on Monday morning? Sex should be banned, period!
this why only having one app / content store is bad.
And why we should stop MS and apple from adding more lock in to the desktop like there phones have.
Has Amazon deleted any of these questionable books from people's Kindles?
-- hendrik
O'Reily and Pragmatic Bookshelf and Baen all publish in major formats (pdf, epub, mobi, etc), all DRM-free.
The problem is when you can only get books from one location you are screwed.
Also, the fact that Amazon can retroactively wipe books off the Kindle means even after the sale, they can Take It Back, like if you buy a book from a brick and mortar and they follow you out to your car, throw you up against the side, rifle through your bag, take your book and then drop some coin on the ground (your "refund").
In real life, they'd get shot. Online, they get more money.
That is ripe with incest and preteen sex, child brides and sex slaves as well as rape. Also, any medieval based works, most post-apocalyptic or fantasy settings that involve royalty since they always seem to bang their sisters or aunts or mothers, oh and Shakespeare too in that case. Seriously, they just eliminated pretty much every major work in the last 2000 years...oh and the Bible and other religious works. It was nice reading (most) of you.
For those that have watched the cult classic Rollerball with James Caan, they will understand where this all leads. To a world with virtually no physical books, all of which are on computer where those in charge can remove whatever they want.
For those younger readers of slashdot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451
We don't need firemen to burn books now, we just need Amazon and all the big corps that control the various e-readers to send 'censor with extreme prejudice' packets [I've made that up, but it'll come] to those naughty people who read naughty books. We must think of the children, mustn't we?
And of course the next thing is radicalism [people really need protecting from Karl Marx don't they] and unpalatable material [people need protecting from Mein Kampf too]. Let's not forget cult movies etc. which we can dump in the constant change of format from VHS to DVD to Blueray to next-profitable thing.
The world will be really lovely when we've finished all this, just Disney, idiot talent competitions and gameshows. Personally, I can't wait, can you? Meanwhile, I'm stocking up on physical books whilst they're still available, that way they have, at least, come around and break the door down to get them.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
Romance novels usually contain erotica.
As for government, a wise man (don't make me slap you) once said, "Poor is the man whose pleasure depends on the permission of another."
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Nah - the pols are fucking ALL of us.
For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
Romance novels cause brain activity in the same part of the brain for women that Erotica causes brain activity in men. It's the same crap. Women are just more interested in relationships while men are more interested in visuals. It's all smut, it's just a double standard.
The same author on the same site spent quite an article in defense of sexual abuse.
http://www.kernelmag.com/comment/column/6000/in-defence-of-revenge-porn/
So I guess to him, sexual abuse is bad, except when he does it, then it's his right to do so.
Amazing, the only way to read psychoanalysis is from the library.....
I wonder what Sigmund Freud would say about the hidden message here.
Way back in 2011, Amazon already started censoring what they choose to sell - it was reported right here on SlashDot.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/05/15/0254250/amazon-removes-yaoi-manga-titles-from-kindle-store
Since then, I boycotted them. Looks like another bunch of companies just made the list.
Who cares? Anybody who wants can still peddle their porn on the internet.
really.
I think you're over playing the difference.
Erotica: Introductory paragraph -> Sex.
Romance: Introductory paragraph -> Foreplay -> Sex.
I wouldn't make much of it.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
A good old fashioned Book Burning! Yea... That's the ticket!
I'll start the fire, you all go get your bad books to burn... Anybody know how to burn an E-Book?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Ban them all! I don't want to read this kind of xxxx anyway, because it differs from my xxxxx view. Censor everyxxxxx, it's all xxxx xxxxxxx. And furthermore, xxxx xx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx. Censorship is xxxx!
Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
So at what temperature does an e-book burn?
Montag, you're a fireman!
So, lemme get this straight, they are going to ban all erotica, but "50 Shades of Grey" is still a top seller, right?
Only books from relatively unknown authors, eh? Yeah, that's not showing any favoritism... Why not shut down the entire Amazon self-publishing arm?
There's this book I'd like to ban... It's called the Bible, and more people have been murdered via this book than all the guns, videogames, territorial wars, and other sources combined. It is truly evil and needs to be abolished.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
If Amazon etc aren't willing to host this content then we need a distributors that are willing.
Some sort of self publishing publisher where anyone can host a book for almost nothing. It has to be kindle compatible etc.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
For nearly sixty years, even as a child, pornography never once attacked me or did me any harm. If pornography is harmful, wouldn't breast feeding cause irreparable damage to a child?
"Erotica and romance novels are two completely different categories. Romance novels usually have some sort of plot or story that would function just fine without the smut."
You're making an artificial distinction that doesn't really exist.
Romance novels are generally erotic, and erotic novels generally involve romance. What you're talking about it text porn, not "erotica". There IS a difference there.
Granted, some booksellers do draw a line between romance and erotica, but in reality it's an extremely wide, gray line that is barely visible.
I'll just add this to the list on why I don't like eBooks. See, it's not book burning it's book deleting.
Since when is "50 Shades of Grey" a romance novel?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Before your politically correct obtusery is modded too far up, might I just draw your attention to the context we're discussing within here. "Pleasure" might frequently be a euphemism for sex, but sex is not the only pleasure, and indeed while the main subject of discussion is 'erotica' which is sexual in nature, it takes the form of inanimate objects which people relate to each in their own way. The quote then is not referring to rape, but the ability to access and consume pleasurable things, literal inanimate objects.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
asstr.org
Be seeing you...
I am pretty sure their is no such thing as erotic literature for men, erotic novels are a synonym for romance novels, which is just a fancy way of saying lady porn.
I guess in the billions of books out their, there must be some erotic ones aimed at men, but hardly enough to be labeled a category. If erotic literature for men existed in any major form I am pretty sure I would be aware of it.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
OK so eons ago, there were erotica or hard core sexual books on shelves. And the righteous said ban them, burn them. People fought back, we create an adults only bookstore. Note the ADULTS ONLY part. And then the righteous said, "not in my neighborhood" and got those shut down. This happened around the same time as ADULTS ONLY entertainment places were being told, coverup or get out, until ADULTS ONLY is now only R rated entertainment.
Then comes the internet, now people can, FROM THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOME, download and watch / read any smut they want to. Sadly, the industry didn't protect it self and would allow itself to be associated to shady internet "in your face" practices, so the industry has received too much unwanted attention. It's a double edged sword, publicity = sales, but publicity = criticism. The industry has seemly caught on, make it private people will find it if they really want to, it' not that hard.... no pun intended.
Here some writers have some stories to sell, for most of us, sick and deranged, but stories none the less. Now people have paid for copies of these stories to read in the PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOME on their OWN devices and some pompous person says "not on my ebook provider".
I am not a proponent for censorship, never have been. I don't like what some people write so I choose NOT TO BUY, READ, OR WATCH it, but I'm certainly not going to stop someone else. What someone else is into is none of my freaking business, no matter how offended by it I may be.
Sadly I'm sure that if one eBook provider becomes the sole provider of everything smut someone will sue the provide or the author for what some other nutjob does wrong in society. I only wish we would enact the same logic with other things we think are bad. Do we punish the bullet manufacturer for the bullets or the store that sold them that are used in a crime? No? We still sell weapons and ammo.
Why then must we censor someone else's work?
I know I know you'll say, because it glorifies incest and rape.... It's sick and disgusting, but have you read books like "Fifty Shades of Gray"?
That story line is about ADULTS choosing to be CONSENTING ADULTS and doing things that are considered illegal in society (domestic abuse), tortured, etc... but they are about consenting adults doing these things.
Incest is disgusting, but shit we read about that in history books.
Rape is atrocious, but again we read about that in history books.
Time to ban everything bad or disgusting that ever happened that's ever been written about, whether it's based on fact or someone's fantasy.
Even Disney movies show kids or animal being abducted that's wrong, why aren't we banning those books and stories?
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
I'm laughing at all you who got rid of your printed books because you thought e-books were so damned cool. How are you enjoying your e-book that got deleted right off your e-book reader? Did that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that they can reach right into a device you legally own, in the privacy of your own home, and delete something you paid cash money for? Which, by the way, never really existed because it's just data? Or better yet: the fact that they can alter the contents of works you bought digitally, and you will never know the difference?
I'll continue sticking to my nice, old-fashioned printed-on-paper books, and likewise continue to be immune to the revisionism that you e-book whippersnappers are being plagued by now.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Erotica means whatever the person using the word wants it to mean.
Case in point: Rule 34.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
They are "private" companies: it is not censorship, and they are free to run their business as they see fit. If you disagree with how they do it, then start your own business selling the stuff they won't. After all, if its legal and there's a market for it, all they did by walking away is open the door for a start-up. If there's no market, or you don't wish to tar yourself by association, then don't complain that they feel the same way.
Here's how I think it will go down: At least some of this stuff is worth too much money to just ignore. The big guys like Amazon will de-list stuff to satisfy the outrage, then quietly add most of it back. They'll put a new policy in place to limit the most extreme/gross stuff (which is fine with me), and then send notices to all the affected authors/publishers that they can re-submit their titles. 99% will be quietly reinstated, we won't miss or even notice the remaining 1%, and it will be as if nothing happened. If the outrage blows back up, they'll point to their new policy, pat themselves on the back and ignore it.
Example #1: Proliferation of beastiality content in the UK, where beastiality is illegal.
Star Trek is illegal in the UK, then? After all, there's all kinds of interspecies sex on a starship. Hell, Spock's human mom obviously had sex with a Vulcan.
Example #2: Incest, pedo-bear, and rape stories mixed in with children's books.
I guess if I visit the UK I'd better leave my bible home then.
Example #3: RTFA
I read part of the first one. It was rubbish.
Free Martian Whores!
Erotica is when you use a feather. Pornography is when you use the whole chicken.
IIRC, this is from Terry Pratchett
paper books are recalled too if somebody convinces the authorities or the publisher that something is wrong or illegal about the book.
If a citation was ever needed, that bit of bullshit was it. In my 61 years I've never heard of a single published book being recalled. Where did you hear that nonsense?
Free Martian Whores!
to the pleasure dome of reborn christians, and their war on words.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Censorship is WRONG. There isn't any way to satisfy everyone on what is and is not acceptable. Put a warning, make it difficult to get to, make it safe for the children.. but you CANNOT censor content 'correctly'. This is one of the greatest dangers of electronic cloud based media; everything is up for possible sanitzation at any time.
If I sound stupid, it's not me talking....
That quote greatly predates Pratchett, though its attribution is probably lost to time.
My daughter and I have actually discussed this. She says you're wrong. Women aren't as visually stimulated as men, they use emotionally laden words. In other words, romance novels are women's erotica.
I thought "erotica" was what women used to masturbate, whilst "porn" is what men use. YMMV.
egypt urnash minimal art.
Either you've been accurately labelled flamebait or you have exposed a serious and dark personal quirk, having leapt immediately to rape from a discussion about video and text.
Sure there is - James Bond. It's just not laden with trigger words like thrust, sheath, etc. because we don't key off that kind of thing. Read the very visual descriptions of the women, however.
they appear to be running keyword searches and removing any title that mentions innocuous words like babysitter, sister, or teenager.
That statement is pure speculation. None of the linked articles has any evidence of this. The only mention of it is in the last link, to the-digital-reader.com, which says:
There is also The Nun’s Lover, which appears to have been removed simply because the description mentions the word sister.
But there is nothing to back up that assumption.
That is hardly erotic literature, that is literature that is just not completely devoid of sex.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I just did a quick search for "erotica ebook store" and came up with:
www.ellorascave.com
www.ebook-eros.com
www.sirenpublishing.com
and of course, literotica.com is still free.
If Amazon, B&N and friends don't want that business, I'm sure these folks and others will be happy to have the extra customers. The nice thing about shopping on the internet is that all the stores are equally close.
Not unless Terry Pratchett had a sex change surgery, changed his name, and moved from Chile.
Ezekiel 23:20
A bunch of major semi-monopolies just voluntarily abandoned a cash-rich piece of their market and left it to smaller alternative distributors. I think this should be applauded. I won't believe even for a second that in the long term (6+ months) the authors of the targeted works will just starve and die, or that their readers will turn to something which Amazon&co. believe they should read. Just look at tpb - it's been hunted for 7+ years, and it's still here. And since the targeted books are not even illegal, there's no chance they will actually get killed. The whole market will just move to different distributors, strengthening the global e-book market in the long term. This time around, human stupidity is actually doing some good to the cause of liberty and free speech, since after today even politically oblivious housewives will have some pretty strong opinions about it :)
Censorship based on the use of common words is something that happens all over these days. I have a few websites with Google Adsense on them. Google sends spam e-mails about "adult content" on a poetry site I have regularly. It's mostly poetry from the 16th, 17th and 18th century on that site. Words like "lover" trigger their malfunctioning bot. Webmasters have the choice between censoring perfectly normal content, and in my case poems, that no human in their right mind would have a problem with. I'm not shocked or amazed that this is happening with ebooks, Google has been doing this for a long time now. It reminds me of the book 1984. I'm glad this is getting some attention here today - because this is far more common than most people realize.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
There's also asstr.org, the current home of what used to be alt.sex.stories.text.repository (IIRC), probably the largest and oldest online repository of erotica. Quite a few of the stories are book-length, the majority are short stories and many are series.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Hooray for me and fuck you. Yep, that's sounds about right.
Jack of all trades,master of none
They are effectively banning some kind of publications from their shops: that's censorship by definition. Of course it's within their rights, but that doesn't mean it's not censorship, it simply means it's legal (which doesn't imply it being a good or bad decision).
While I find my Kindle a great device to read books on, it's important to separate the Kindle marketplace from the hardware. If your family members have to buy DRM laden books, show them how to strip it off. Show them where to get non-DRM'ed books as well. They can manage / upload their collection with Calibre or just copy the books to their Kindle's Documents folder. Show them how to archive off a copy (sans DRM) with their pictures and music.
If you can show them how to take control of what they've paid for, they can decide weather they want Amazon making this call for them. Unfortunately, you can't make them make the "right" decision.
Isn't all this just opening a new opportunity for players like Playboy to start e-publishing books that are refused by other publishers?
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
I read the articles and discovered that instead of this being Bad Amazon, Bad B&N
It's not? But you say:
Had a smut author walked in the front door of Amazon or B&N and said "hey, will you sell my ... works ... centered around incest, rape, and pedophilia" they would be handed a copy of those store's book offering policy and shown the door
In what way is that not Amazon and B&N behaving badly?
they are removing content that violates their business model. That is their right
And it's our right to shame them for censorship.
Now if a Government makes broad sweep removals requirement for all businesses...then we can debate censorship.
Censorship is not limited to governments.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I remember Barnes & Noble making a big thing about how it supported banned books like Huckleberry Finn and The Lorax. They had signs and buttons reading "I read banned books!" all over the store.
I guess now its "I only read the books I'm allowed to read!"
This is pretty close to correct, I'd say, but it's a *literary* analysis. Erotica, category romance, and romantic fiction are *marketing* categories.
Category romances are formula driven. More than any other kind of genre fiction, category romance about guaranteeing a *repeatable* reading experience. So category romance publishers have very specific parameters for each of their imprints, such as (real examples here) "features a young heroine who is sexually awakened but inexperienced," or "Strong, gorgeous, medical professional heroes at the top of their game with hearts of gold, and heroines to match." If enjoy one Harlequin® Medical Romance (no joke -- they're serious about meaningful branding), the editors go to extraordinary lengths to ensure that you'll like the next one you'll pick up. If you're the sort of reader who might purchase a Harlequin® Love Inspired (Harlequin's Christian Romance line) novel, you can be certain it doesn't contain any unpleasant surprises.
In the romance publishing business what sets apart "erotica" from category romance with an erotic elements is that all important "happily ever after" ending. Having a romantic story that ends happily isn't enough, it's got to be "happily ever after" which is something different. And the story has got to get there following the particular imprint's formula. I actually respect that. They're not my cup of tea, but category romances retell myths that people want to hear over and over again. That's really no different than endlessly rehashing the hero's journey in fantasy literature. The challenge for any writer of genre fiction is to renew the myth; to bring it to life for the people who want to experience it.
As for the erotica market, I have done book critiques for a friend who writes stuff for that market, even though her stuff makes me want to flush my eyes with bleach. I don't think the market for non-romance erotica is as elaborately segmented as for romance, but I think it will get there. My erotica-writing friend has a lot of fans, enough to put her on the NY Times best seller list, albeit briefly, but that's outstanding for a genre novel. And they clearly like reading about sexual acts in graphic detail: kinky stuff with restraints and pain and multiple simultaneous penetrations. Yet they have nothing but contempt for "50 Shades" which they consider tasteless swill. It's pretty easy to see what their beef is in that case; the heroine of 50 shades is a "bottom" in BDSM-speak, and my friend's heroines are "tops". But there are other tribal divisions in the erotica fanbase whose explanation completely eludes me.
People try to divide science fiction from fantasy or romance from erotica from pornography, but ultimately the market isn't out literary ontologies; it's about matching up authors with readers who might enjoy their work. Suppose you're an author who's written an urban fantasy novel with erotic scenes and a happy ending. You could offer that very same story to Harlequin (a romance publisher), Exotica (an erotica publisher), or TOR Books (a traditional sci-fi and fantasy imprint of Macmillan). Any one of those publishers might take the book on, but what their editors ask you to do with it before it is published will be radically different.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Someone was clearly brain damaged by high school. MOST literature contains sex. Certainly nearly all of the good stuff. This is because most humans have sex in their lives. It makes it important in narratives about humans. Joyce's Ulysses includes a guy masturbating in the bushes while perving on a cripple and a vivid description of a rimjob. Gravity's Rainbow is basically a 760 page dick joke. The Sound and the Fury is all about how women's liberation (promiscuity in Faulkner's mind) affected Southern men. McCarthy's Child of God has graphic descriptions of necrophilia. Very few major novels since the 1950s have been vague about sex. Even before then it was almost always there (what did you think the entire conflict of The Sun Also Rises was, or Dorian Gray, or Whitman's poetry?), it just wasn't as explicit or graphic.
Hey, I just live up to my name!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I think a store can differentiate on the things they sell without it being censorship. For example, a toy store probably won't sell cough drops. An erotica store (sex shop) might sell erotic literature that a normal book store might not. Amazon has some of the same policies in place and that is their right. If someone finds a way around the toy store's policy by selling cough drops in playful packages, then the toy store might consider not selling them anymore after finding out.
If, however, the toy store starts removing anything that kinda looks like a cough drop in a frenzy. Then, yes, that would be censorship.
I think a store can differentiate on the things they sell without it being censorship.
That is true, not all cases of(for lack of a better term) inventory specialization are censorship. But when Amazon sells everything from Edgar Allen Poe to Calculus textbooks to cordless drills, I don't think "that's not our market" is a very convincing explanation.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
There are many more definitions than that. With that said, some people take the position that if it is not the government doing it, it's not censorship; I find that so silly that I chuckle whenever I see someone saying it.
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
"Conservative" does not mean "favoring smaller government and more liberty"; that's "libertarian".
"Conservative" means "favoring things as they once were; opposing change".*
It's a mere historical coincidence that in recent history, change has been away from smaller government, and so libertarianism became conservative.
In older eras, change was toward smaller government, and conservatives were in favor of preserving the authority of the church and state. The Christian nutjobs still pine for those "good old days", and that makes them even more conservative than the libertarian type of conservative.
*(Strictly speaking "conservative" should be distinguished from "reactionary" in that the former favors preserving things as they are now, and the latter favors bringing back things that used to be, in which case all of the aforementioned "conservatives" are really "reactionaries" since society has already changed away from the way they wish it still was).
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Free speech, censorship, and being able to sell something in someone else's store are not the same.
If an author feels censored, they can self publish or distribute freely. If they want a third party to help, they subject themselves to how that party wishes to be seen, and hamstring themselves by wanting to participate.
Walmart won't sell your book? Not censorship.
PayPal won't process your payment? Not censorship.
Yeah, Kobo have pulled all their self-published books. Even my children's book has been removed until further notice.
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Sign the anti-censorship petition at change.org. Currently it is accumulating signatures at the rate of 1 signature every four seconds. Today, Fifty Shades of Grey (virgin enslaved by a billionaire); tomorrow, Ender's Game (children enslaved by the military).
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
The joke has probably been around for a hundred years.
Whom did Seth marry?
On the other hand, prior to a significant population bottleneck in the 17th century after creation of humankind, there weren't enough built-up deleterious mutations in the human genome to cause noticeable inbreeding depression. I guess that's why the commandment against incest didn't come until Leviticus nearly a millennium after the flood.
So Amazon has a broad market, that does not mean they have to carry everything. A Christian book store does not carry books on the occult, is that censorship or a store setting a policy on what they choose to sell.
As I said, we need to stop getting hyper about what censorship really is about. A store, even a large e-commerce store not selling fringe erotica literature is not censorship. It is a policy that does not effect one's ability to but they same material somewhere else. To reach the level of censorship, it has to be so broad that access to content is so broad that there is no ability to not just access, but express interest.
Bottom line, if you can buy it, read it, talk about without fear of reprisal, it is not censorship. Amazon, overbearing as it may be at times, did not censor erotica, they said "We're not going to sell this for you. Have a nice day".
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
Fine..define it. Tell me your position on censorship. There is a huge difference between commence and government.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
Too bad they also didn't filter any titles that begin with Twilight.
The Kernel is a yellow journalist paper in my view. There style and coverage is nothing else, they are not to inform. They are just out there to gain publicity and clearly some income, they don't run any advertisement and have no income from the looks of it and don't seem to be an subscription magazine either.
I wrote a longer article here on this, http://www.jonfr.com/?p=8058
Disclaimer: That is my website.
If you remove or alter information with the intent of making it more difficult for people to view the original information wherever you removed it from or altered it, then I consider that censorship.
There is a huge difference between commence and government.
But not to such a degree that entities other than the government can't engage in censorship.
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
That is hardly erotic literature, that is literature that is just not completely devoid of sex.
C'mon, this is a mostly US site with all of the Puritanical and neo Puritanical baggage that comes with it. Any mention of sex that doesn't include magic underwear and/or baby Jesus snctifying a marriage between one (1) man and one (1) woman is erotic and filthy.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Adding an affiliate ID to the link. Classy.
Esli epei etot cumprenan, shris soa Sfaha.
sell adult content in the erotica category. None of the content is actually illegal
Removing them is the wrong reaction. A better reaction would be to make a setting "Include erotica cateory in search results" (default off). And put the bible in that category, where it belongs.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
But you really think the pedo is going to do something to your kid(s) because of a book? Really? Books make them that way?
No, but a Christian book store specializes in Christian books. A store that specializes in non-christian books isn't specializing but censoring. I get Hatta's point. It's a very thin line to walk.
You are absolutely right. Women are aurally stimulated (no jokes, please!) men are visually stimulated. Simple as that. Any guy who has EVER gotten "lucky" KNOWS that it's what you say that gets you some. Cads and bounders have used this realization for centuries. "Romance" writers also know this all too well, and , in fact, most sucessful romance writers are, wait for it.. MEN. Why? Because the opposite is true in our ability to attract the otherr sex. Men are best AT words, and women are best AT portraying the *visual* component.. IE Oomen "dress up" to attract the opposite sex, and men use words..
Well, there is a certain area of intersection, of course, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they're the same.
The main difference would probably be that politicians have way more ways to fuck with you and make you feel violated, and they don't care how old you are.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The chance the pedo might do something that harms my children is certain.
Citation needed.
Oh, sorry, I forgot, it's a big nono to expect a rational discussion when it comes to sex, drugs or politics.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Novels written by the Marquis de Sade might qualify.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Hmm. I guess some people still like to play doctor. ;)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
It's not just questionable content, but directly aimed at "Amateur Authors" . Yes some have snuck in what would be called pornography, but the response is to ban all self published authors which is not only censorship, but discrimination. It's sad that cleaning up things is being done by painting all Amateur Authors with such a wide brush. I find the actions of these firms as disgusting as the books mentioned. The Kernel "appears to be some old guy with an over developed sense of propriety" or an old maid masquerading as one. But anyone can be anyone on the internet