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Finland's Algorithm-Driven Public Bus
Daniel_Stuckey writes "Where's the Uber-like interactivity for getting a bus to come to you after a tap on your cell phone? In Finland, actually. The Kutsuplus is Helsinki's groundbreaking mass transit hybrid program that lets riders choose their own routes, pay for fares on their phones, and summon their own buses. It's a pretty interesting concept. With a ten-minute lead time, you summon a Kutsuplus bus to a stop using the official app, just as you'd call a livery cab on Uber. Each minibus in the fleet seats at least nine people, and there's room for baby carriages and bikes. You can call your own private Kutsuplus, but if you share the ride, you share the costs — it's about half the price of a cab fare, and a dollar or two more expensive than old school bus transit. You can then pick your own stop, also using the app."
If Obama has his way, this is what we will wind up with in the USA. Please, please understand that all wealth is created in private industry and the government is a leech on society.
I'm Jonnie cab!
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Now, I am not trolling, but can some one tell me what innovation haas come from the USA in recent years? It all seems to come from countries afar!
point is, it's cheaper than cab.
do you know how much a cab costs in finland?
EUR â 5.9 for first 0Km(that's right just getting into the taxi is 5.9 euros)
and then EUR â 1.52 per Km (1-2 passangers).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The scary part is when it says the Kutsuplus is only a "dollar or two" more than a regular bus.
Buses must be very expensive in Finland too, unless they are only talking about very short trips.
but with vans
I have shared many van cab's though out the years, especially in smaller countries, split the cost and used a phone to schedule a pickup. Other than a name change so taxi's cant do anything about being undercut by the government, whats the news?
They must have solved the travelling salesman problem.
FCKGW 09F9 42
With any luck, our government will also tax our gas to the point where paying $10 to wait for a bus in the rain and then ride in it with random strangers for an hour all over the town will make more sense than driving directly there in comfort of your own car in 15 minutes. And who says innovation comes only from the private sector!
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
Kutsuplus's price is 3.50 € ($4.73) + 0.45 €/km ($0.98/mile). For cabs, base price is 5.90€ ($7.97) € or 9€ ($12.16) depending on the time and the price per km is 1.52 € - 2.13€ depending on number of passengers ($3.31 - $4.63 per mile). The price for single mass transit ticket (inside Helsinki) is 2.80€ ($3.78) when bought from the driver and it's good for 60 minutes (or 80 minutes when bought from certain busses).
That's true in cities...a lot less so in more rural areas. While Europe is lauded(and for good reason, at least compared to the US) for its public transport system, that system mostly exists only in the big cities. When you get to the more rural parts of Europe bus services are incredibly infrequent if they exist at all. As such there are parts of Germany and Finland where a car is almost a requirement. However a bus that can be called on demand and allows people to split the costs can be quite beneficial, esp. when it comes to shuttling people between where they live and the closest rail station.
Monstar L
Depends on the part of the world. Buy a ticket from a driver, costly.
Swipe a pre paid card, less costly.
Pension and its much reduced. Some countries even have travel free times for eligible seniors.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Why do you think I walk everywhere? This idea is unappealing.
They should do the same thing with trains.
I don't know why this is news, you could do this around 15 years ago, with only exception being that you had to call them instead of using a smartphone app (I actually used similar travel to go to school for couple years around 98/99).
The bus fare here in Finland varies between cities (it depends on amount of municipality aid to operator) but generally, single adult fare is 3.8 USD to 4 USD (and price doubles at night) and you may be allowed to use the same ticket again within certain time perioid (1 hour or so).
Silicon Valley had that from 1974 to 1976. It was called "Dial a RIde". It was a popular service, but too expensive to provide. The hope was that there would be enough people going in roughly the same directions that the small buses used would fill up. But it turned out that there wasn't enough commonality of destination. Everybody wanted to go some place different, and the buses often had one passenger.
Most successful van systems have a common source or destination - a school or airport. Without some concentrating factor, cabs or cars are more effective.
A system can not be "public" if it is discriminating against people who don't carry mobile phones that can run the app that is required.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
"The bus fare here in Finland varies between cities (it depends on amount of municipality aid to operator) but generally, single adult fare is 3.8 USD to 4 USD (and price doubles at night) and you may be allowed to use the same ticket again within certain time perioid (1 hour or so)."
I'm from Luxembourg, Europe and here too lots of small towns have also a call-a-bus system like that.
But you just use the regular tickets for it, it's 2€ for 2 hours, no matter where.
Lots of people use it to get to doctor's appointments or to places where parking is either expensive or rare.
Obviously lots of seniors use it too.
well doh. even long range buses are expensive thanks to the system protecting some routes.
generally long range bus is just a bit cheaper than going by train. how is this possible? because trains are hideously expensive.
but then again hey, it's Finland. everything is more expensive. practically the only more expensive place in the world(quality/price ratio, so monaco is straight out) is Norway.
that doesn't meant that loads of people weren't using the bus, train etc - or drinking 10 dollar beers.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Meanwhile in 80 km southwards, in Tallinn, mass transit is free for registered inhabitants of the city... and nope, you don't summon buses. In former Soviet Estonia, buses summon you. :P
but then again hey, it's Finland. everything is more expensive. practically the only more expensive place in the world is Norway.
You forgot Switzerland, almost as bad as Norway. But there are plenty of countries comparable to Finland in cost of living, including Japan and Australia, as well as your Nordic neighbours. So don't feel so bad. However Australia is only one Chinese recession away from a massive aussie dollar devaluation, while you folks are stuck with the Euro.
And that's the daytime rate. Want a cab on Vappu-eve? You're looking at 8.50e before you've even started moving.
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
To go from a Helsinki harbour to an Otaniemi (just across the Helsinki "border" in Espoo) business park is a 4.50e adult single fare. Even with a prepaid travel card it's about 3.50e. Of course, if you stay within the Helskinki area, it's cheaper, but a lot of people have to cross the Espoo/Helsinki border every day, I guess a bus crosses the Länsiväyla (Lansivayla, if my 8-bit gets mangled) bridge at least once per minute on averate at peak times.
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
In Tallinn, it makes sense to fund the bus network from general taxes, because only local residents are going to use the bus network: the area that tourists confine themselves to (the port and the Old Town) is so small that they don't really need to use buses.
In Helsinki on the other hand, the tourist attractions are quite spread out, so you get a lot of tourists using public transit, and if you have to keep the army of ticket inspectors working to check up on them, you might as well maintain the fare system as it is.
That said, public transportation is heavily subsidized for those who can prove they are Helsinki residents, and a monthly pass for unlimited use costs only around 40â, which I feel is reasonable.
at night when the normal busses dont travel any more you can call a special cab which picks you up at a bus station and drops you off anywhere you want (in the city limits) for a fixed price. However here the lead time is much longer (30 minutes).
Such call services are usually buses that run a fixed route on a fixed schedule, and htat will not run if there are no passengers (that is, if no-one called in to say they want to take that bus). This Kutsuplus runs on demand, on the time you ask, the route you ask. It's more like a shared taxi service.
These are *not* self-driving vehicles, and you're a moron.
Have gnu, will travel.
Since we're doing comparative bus fairs here
Cambridge, UK. Where I live has no busses so Bus from the next village (30 minute walk) to the city centre is £4.80 for a day ticket(so about $7.7). About 6 miles each way on the bus.
If I want the bus to work then I've got to go two villages over (lift from the wife) at which point it is £5.80 (about $9), That's about a 5 mile bus trip.
"The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
It also costs money to charge. Setting up and maintaining the systems to charge people money and handle, manage the money, deal with people with payment issues, often isn't that cheap either.
My personal belief is that for some cities or towns public transportation should be free (at least the buses, trains and subways).
Most shopping malls or office buildings don't charge you to use the escalators or elevators. It costs money to run these things, but the malls and office buildings make the big bucks elsewhere.
So same thing for some cities - if they're a thriving city, public transport wouldn't be a major net income source for the city anyway.
Running public transport like subways costs a lot, but as I said - charging for it costs too. Think of all the subway turnstiles, extra guards to catch those who don't pay or escort the cash, ticket booth operators etc.
How much of that cost comes from the maintenance of the necessary transport stuff (including safety and security) and how much is going to the charging part?
So if a lot of cost is due to the charging part and the transport system is not making much or even running at a loss, perhaps the city should consider not charging at all.
After all if turns out you're collecting only enough money to pay for the charging infrastructure and staff then what's the point? The only benefit is "job creation".
"Such call services are usually buses that run a fixed route on a fixed schedule, and htat will not run if there are no passengers (that is, if no-one called in to say they want to take that bus). This Kutsuplus runs on demand, on the time you ask, the route you ask. It's more like a shared taxi service."
Yes, this is exactly such a service. Every new customer gets entered with their entry point and destination and some traveling salesman application sends the new route to the buses navigator.
We also have a Call-a-Night-Bus more for the youth actually, but there they usually order their bus days in advance for reaching parties, clubs, fiestas and such and a secure way back without drunk driving.
It's more expensive but many communities pay an annual fee on demand for their 50) use that to get to restaurants, to be able to drink wine during the meal, otherwise 2 glasses would get me over the limit.
"We also have a Call-a-Night-Bus more for the youth actually,"
Forgot to add that this is a country-wide offer, mostly used for places where there are no public transports at all, not only during the night.
In Tallinn, the ticket inspectors are still there though. And you can get fined if you are a local resident and should ride free, but forgot to "buy" your free ticket by swiping the RFID card in the bus. Even after several court rulings undoing such fines.
However, the idea of free public transport, is not that bad, if feasible. In Tallinn, it used to be heavily subsidized anyway, with only ~20% of the money coming from ticket sales (IIRC). They are also planning to extend this to railways within the city, which are operated by private companies - would definitely make some commutes quicker.
Such a service would be very useful in rural areas, indeed. :-)
For now, though, Kutsuplus is piloted within Kehä I, AKA the perimeter of civilization around Helsinki
I tried the service shortly after it was opened to the public. It's awesome. You can track your bus in a mobile browser in real time. On a screen inside the bus, you get ETA information for your destination (possibly after other passengers' stops if they get out earlier).
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.