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Facebook Comment Prompts Arrests In Cyberbullying Suicide Case
An anonymous reader writes "The NY Times reports on the arrests of two girls, ages 12 and 14, who allegedly harassed another 12-year-old girl who committed suicide. The girls are facing third-degree felony charges, and the police involvement was spurred by a comment on Facebook by the older of the two. 'In Internet shorthand it began "Yes, ik" — I know — "I bullied Rebecca nd she killed herself." The writer concluded that she didn't care, using an obscenity to make the point and a heart as a perverse flourish. Five weeks ago, Rebecca Ann Sedwick, a seventh grader in Lakeland in central Florida, jumped to her death from an abandoned cement factory silo after enduring a year, on and off, of face-to-face and online bullying. ... Brimming with outrage and incredulity, the sheriff said in a news conference on Tuesday that he was stunned by the older girl's Saturday Facebook posting. But he reserved his harshest words for the girl's parents for failing to monitor her behavior, after she had been questioned by the police, and for allowing her to keep her cellphone.'"
But he reserved his harshest words for the girl's parents for failing to monitor her behavior
Children are sociopaths until they learn better / their frontal lobes finish developing. It's the parents who are at fault here.
Most parents can't or don't monitor what their kids do on the internet, and most parents are under the belief their child is a little angel who would never do something like this (or consider it to be 'normal' childhood stuff).
I suspect most parents do not have the kind of control over their kids this sheriff thinks, and likely aren't that interested anyway.
From what I've seen, most parents are either clueless or turn a blind eye to the fact that their kids are rotten little bastards.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
From TFA: "Both were charged with aggravated stalking." Not sure why this was omitted from the summary, and only the vague "third-degree felony charges" term used. Combined with the somewhat misleading title, implying that it was only facebook comments that got these girls in trouble, it's disappointing link-baiting.
I'm probably in the minority of slashdotters, but I have no problem with the government spying on my communications and seeing what porn I watch--the only problem I have is with how this information is used. Even then, if the government ever came to me and said, "Do this, or we tell the world about your [redacted] fetish," I'd respond, "Go ahead. And I'll tell the world about how you tried to blackmail me." Guess who'd be in more trouble?
And yes, I do get off on looking at those blacked-out lines on partially de-classified documents. My horrible secret is now known.
....a Early teen girl.
And yes this is 100% fact, I raised my daughter though the hell that is Midddle school and high school, Satan himself is a nice guy compared to teenage girls and the heartless crap they do to others.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
but I have no problem with the government spying on my communications and seeing what porn I watch
Then you're ignorant about the importance of privacy.
the only problem I have is with how this information is used.
Given the sorts of governments we've seen throughout history, it would be foolish to believe that the information would not be abused.
Da derp dee derp da teedly derpee derpee dum. Rated PG-13.
You have a redaction fetish? The FOIA must be like mail-order porn to you.
I feel this is a behavioral bump in the road that may disappear as my generation becomes the parental generation.
I am 30 years old. I remember a pre-WWW world (I deliberately say WWW to differentiate from chats, BBS etc, which was largely inaccessible to all but the greasiest of geeks). I have grown with the technology, and know its potential and pitfalls. My parents however have no idea of either. They got all my hand-me-down computers, they appreciated my efforts to educate them. Because I was around fro the pre WWW, analogies were easy. I knew how the postal system worked, I could easily analogise POP mail etc. But they do not know the full potential. They look up their recipes, history of [subject] info, and IMDB pages, harass and embarrass me on fakebook, but they never really matured with the technology, and never had to suffer the pitfalls. It was just suddenly there, and they shat bricks, because it was like nothing they had ever seen, and they didn't understand the dynamics. They adapted, but never understood.
I feel as my generation become the parents and out kids hit those preteen/teen years (maybe 10-15 years), the problems will go away, because we will be capable of not only being able to give good advice on troll evasion and shaming, but we will also be in a far better position to adequately monitor, and mentor, about what actually happens on the internet. We know what to look for, we know how to find it, and we know how to deal with it. Not all of my generation are savvy enough to do it, but a greater percentage of us are, as compared to the current crop of 40-50 year old who had this thrust on them by their kids demanding internet connections and fondletoys to use on them.
I feel for that girl, and her parents who were blindsided by and lost a child to a technology they had to scramble to understand. I feel for the parents of the aggressors for not knowing just how serious the shit their kids were doing. I hope and feel that my generation will be more capable than them.
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Perhaps you should read the article.
"In December, the bullying grew so intense that Rebecca began cutting herself and was sent to a hospital by her mother to receive psychiatric care. Ultimately, her mother pulled her out of Crystal Lake Middle School. She home schooled her for a while and then enrolled her in a new school in August."
Religion has nothing to do with anything. You either act, or don't. Her parents did what they thought was best. Sadly it didn't pay off.
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I'm noticing a lot of "waah, little baby can't handle a little teasing" posts. This is /. -- who wasn't mercilessly picked on in junior high/high school??
I'm a new parent of two kids and am not looking forward to helping them navigate the new Facebook bullying world. One of them is a girl too, so I'm sure it's going to be worse for her. I think the bad thing about it is that those of us who really got a lot of abuse in school would be able to go home and tune it out. With cell phones, Facebook and all that stuff, you can't ever escape.
One thing I do see a lot of lately is a backlash against PC and just being nice to people. Not being an ass isn't PC, it's just being a good human. Parents should teach their children this, but unfortunately no one is giving out parenting licenses (yet.) I think that would be a big help in solving the behavior problems of kids -- reining in their idiot parents. (And no, I'm no super genius parent, but watching typical 7 year olds having a screaming match with their parents complete with creative expletives makes me wonder whether I'm doing something right.
Yes, lets rant about how prissy the 12 year old girl was for taking her own life. Because we all know 12 year olds (girl or boy) are capable of handling things like an adult should, in your perfect world.
"Now for a side rant. Suicide is a pussy way out. No one should commit suicide over the actions of another but if they feel compelled to give that other person that much power, they should take them out in the process. It would likely make the world a better place as a result of their cowardice."
Let's hope this is the dumbest thing I see on the internet today
Why did they fail in doing this?
RTFS!
They knew their kids were doing it and let them continue.
No sig today...
I have to say, I was subjected to some of the most vicious onslaughts by my peers going through school. Luckily, my parents granted me with the mental fortitude and tools to survive. Not everyone can impart these skills to their children. It is not necessarily the parents fault, and certainly not the child's.
However, I struggle with the concept that bullying someone amounts to a felony. We have some very skewed laws when bullying someone is equivalent to armed robbery, and deserves 5 years in Jail. (Florida)
It is wrong, but it trivialises harder crimes.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
Either you were a special child or you've forgotten how much your world has expanded since then. Whether you're talking about a 5 year old who has an absolute 'the world hates me' meltdown because he got buttered toast (like he asked for) instead of nutella (like he now wanted) or the teenager whose world is crumbling because a friend is moving away, they haven't experienced enough of life to understand how ridiculously small their problem is. This isn't even touching with those kids who do have serious problems such as being sexually abused or physically assaulted on a daily basis, with no knowledge of how else to escape their problems other than suicide... something being suggested to them by their tormentor, or accomplices, constantly. Try showing some empathy, and try teaching it to your kids.
Absolutely the same story here (and there are probably a lot more on /. than would care to admit to it). I was bullied mercilessly, beat up, tormented on a daily basis. Honestly can say it was worse than what was described. The only two reasons I never went through with taking my own life at that age was: 1. It's a cowards way out that rewards the tormentors and punishes the ones that love you and that kept me going. 2. My Parents did their best to support me and convince me that the sociology of Jr High School was meaningless in the grand scheme of things and supported my efforts to find my voice (which I did in High School, first as a writer for the school newspaper and then as the lead singer in a rock band.
Kids will ALWAYS be vicious bastards acting out like Lord of the Flies, and there is no amount of explanation that can satisfy you at that age. I was lucky enough that my Parents (who recently passed) were as involved as they were. I'm also lucky they lived long enough to see me become a successful business owner who sees many of my old bullies at the Gas Station or the Wal-Mart.
You can't change these kids behavior institutionally or in a jail. You need to start at home injecting a moral code and respect for others.
It is wrong, but it trivialises harder crimes.
Not if the punishment is commensurate with the harm caused. With regard to armed robbery, as long as that was the only offense, the impact of the crime is of relatively short duration. It is theft of property under threat of violence. Assuming you can get over being threatened with violence, it's just theft of property, and the impact of the loss of that property (assuming total loss) to an individual is really a minor impact in the overall lifetime of the individual. Bullying can be threats of violence against an individual (like armed robbery), except it also often involves continued harassement, literal violence, and an implication that the threats/violence/harassement will continue, day after day, with no real way out.
Think of a kid who goes to school, maybe it is only once a week he is cornered and detained, physically attacked, perhaps robbed, and harassed. He lives in in a state of perpetual paranoia and emotional pain because he knows that it IS going to happen again, because it has happened many times before. Contrast that to someone mugging you on the street for your wallet. Frightening, maybe costly if you had much cash, and that moment might bother you for years to come.
I've survived an attempted kidnapping (age 11), and I've also been bullied (Ages 7-13). With regard to the kidnapping attempt, I can remember that the guy had curly hair, and the general gist of his conversation, I remember curling up in fear after he fled. But that's about it, I never really worried that he might be back or that I'd be kidnapped again. Yet for the bullying, I can remember every single person who was involved, their actions, their names, their faces. I'll withold their names, but I remember the one who would secretly punch me whenever the teacher turned away. I remember the one who would attack me in the stairwells. I remember the one who threatened to cut me for defending myself from another bully (his cousin). I remember the general taunter in my 7th grade Literature class. I remember the one who would punch me in the back during 6th grade science class. I remember the group who would gather during recess and select a person for 'Random Beatdowns' which were a staple in my school until they finally broke a kid's arm. There are more, but I think the point is made. One of the more vile ones died young, another is incarcerated for murder, none really amounted to much, but I still remember them, and I remember the absolute fear that I had in going to school because it was a place where there was no safety, and no means to defend yourself. Fight back, and you get punished, and the gang mentality kicks in and the bullying increases. (If you think fighting back is an option, you never went to an inner-city school, the only way out there is to 'gang' up, which of course, isn't really a good option).
The point is, here I am, 30 years later, and I can remember the fear, anxiety, fake sickness to avoid school, poor performance, and all of the other aspects of the bullying. But the kidnapping? It's a minor footnote in my memory, a story I tell from time to time when it suits the conversation. But if 30 years later I can pick up the newspaper and glance at an obituary and remember that he was the same guy that made my life hell for several years, I think it helps illustrate that the impacts from bullying are lasting because unlike something like being robbed, bullying isn't a one-off event and can persist for years.
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You are lucky. You probably did never feel like there is no escape but suicide.
Do you know what it is like to be bullied at school? Think of it as being mobbed at your work place without the opportunity to quit. You HAVE to go there. Every single day of your life. You have to go there, knowing for a fact that you will be bullied, maybe beaten up, without anyone or anything stopping your tormentor in any way. Unless you happen to have parents that somehow help you (which pretty much is limited to them teaching you to fight back dirty and teaching you how to avoid teachers to notice it, because everything else is at best a joke... and good luck having parents that teach you THAT), you will not have anyone fighting on your side. The school is the very LAST entity that had any kind of interest in helping you. Worse, you fighting back is against their interest. As long as the bully has you as a punching bag and you keep your mouth shut, the school is happy because there's no problem for them. Do not expect a school to help you in any way. Expect them, though, to punish YOU if you dare to fight back, because then they have a real problem at their hands, because that can easily escalate to a point where external entities will notice something.
So imagine you're in that spot. Unable to quit. Unable to avoid it. Fighting back means being punished, first by the school and, depending on your parents, by them as well (because you're not the "good son" anymore they so love to present around, you're the "bad guy" that got expelled from school now, ya know?). And looking forward to graduating you notice that it's about as far away as you getting into school, which is pretty much a lifetime for you as a kid of 12. To put it into perspective for you, think of it being chained to your work place until retirement, with mobbing and beatings every day.
Maybe this gives you a moment of an idea what it could be like, and why some kids view suicide as their only escape. It has nothing to do with being a pussy. It's simply that it is the only way out left to them.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Yes, lets rant about how prissy the 12 year old girl was for taking her own life. Because we all know 12 year olds (girl or boy) are capable of handling things like an adult should, in your perfect world."
I thought 12 year olds weren't allowed on FB, I'd sue FB, they have more money.
You really think she killed herself because she thought people would think better of her, and that mourning a dead daughter/friend encourages suicide?
Personally I can only begin to imagine what her grieving parents are going through. The posts above show that bullying doesn't have a short-term impact for many of its victims. Often they remember it for the rest of their lives. Some will go through years of counseling. Others will never reach their potential as a result.
I don't for a second believe this girl took her life because she had some long-term plan as to how people would look at her. I strongly suspect that in a moment of despair she sought an escape.
The thing is, bullying is NOT unacceptable for a certain subset of parents. I remember the father of one kid giving his little monster advice on how to beat up my friend, while forcibly holding me back from interfering. Parents of popular and/or rich kids frequently ignored mistreatment of the kids of their 'social inferiors', all the way through high school. I doubt things have changed that much for the better since then.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
1. It's a cowards way out that rewards the tormentors
I was just thinking about that. With it being more and more common to "bust" bullies and actually send them to jail, that dynamic might change. Committing suicide may become a true act of revenge against the bully, which will of course encourage people to commit suicide.
What is appalling about people like you, 'Dogtanian', is that you are cowardly enough to beat up on children for behaviour you PRAISE in adults.
Hmm. I really don't recall saying of those things I allegedly endorse. I must have been very, *very* drunk at the time.
Or maybe you just felt free to shovel great masses of alleged opinions into my mouth because I'm a proxy for America.
America almost universally praises its genocidal butchers in UNIFORM as heroes [..] When this happens, people like 'Dogtanian' applauds the system
Sorry, I thought I was applauding the Rolling Stones tribute band that was playing that night, but I inadvertantly faced the wrong way and applauded the Republican convention.
that not only allows so many men and women to get away with the worst forms of Crimes against Humanity unpunished, but encourages them to rejoice in their crimes forever afterwards. [..] cowards like Dogtanian attack them and label them with the moral deficiencies they themselves have. [..] The USA is almost unique on the planet in having a "blame the child" mentality. The USA is one of the tiny number of countries on the planet that executes children and disabled people. The USA is almost unique in REFUSING to sign UN conventions giving children RIGHTS. The USA is unique amongst nations of the West in allowing children to be subject to BDSM rape at school disguised as corporal punishment. The USA is almost unique in allowing parents to kidnap their 17-year-old daughters, and force them into extremely abusive facilities where they can be stripped and examined against their will, forced into nappies, monitored as they use the toilet, with no justification other than this is what the parents desire (you think I exaggerate- go Google 'Hephzibah House', a facility still running today where ALL these things happened).
Sorry; when I signed that petition, I was assured it was just something about providing mittens for kittens. I knew it looked a bit long. Also, I'm afraid that I was very, very drunk.
But seriously... glad to have been a nice little whipping boy / strawman to let you get that rant out of your system.
If you actually want my opinion, I'm just as disgusted by much of that stuff as you are. (Much as it pains me to "agree" with you). I just happen to have a low tolerance for sociopathic bullies that push people into killing themselves- picky, I know- and something of a desire to see them get back exactly what they dished out.
You're the purest example of someone who- faced with another person who says something they don't entirely agree with- feels free to ascribe any and all opinions held by *all* his/her enemies to that person, regardless of the evidence, and do so in the most sanctimonious, self-righteous manner. I've come across several on Slashdot, but you're certainly the worst.
People like 'Dogtanian' show why America is so sick.
Know what's actually funny? After that anti-American rant, I have to tell you... I'm not actually American. Never even been there.
:-P
I think at this point, I'm entitled to say... you utter fuckwit.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
This isn't about the speech being offensive or not, it is about people not having the capability to retreat from the speech.
The best example I can give as to why this is not an attack on free speech is this:
Situation 1: A person on a soapbox with a megaphone in the town square.
Situation 2: A person on a soapbox with a megaphone following you to school, at your locker, in your classroom, in the hallway, at recess, on the bus.
At what point do you propose that speech transitions into a felony akin to armed robbery? How do you make that distinction?...
In a manner similar to how we deal with most other forms of harassment. If the person asks you to stop, or reports your behavior as harassing, and you do not stop, that makes it a situation where you have to make an explicit attempt to violate the request that you stop. It takes an active step on the harrasser's end after they have been notified that their behavior is unwelcome.
If bullying-leads-to-suicide is a crime that justifies 5 years, does bullying-without-suicide justifies 1.5 years? I think not.
I don't see why we shouldn't consider lighter sentences for situations which result in less harm inflicted.
If you get drunk and push someone and they fall and break their arm, that's battery.
If you get drunk and push someone and they fall and break their neck, that's manslaughter.
In both cases, the act was the same but the harm of that act was different. If you bully someone, and they commit suicide, and someone else bullies another person to the same extent, but that person doesn't commit suicide, perhaps instead of worrying that that other person got 'lucky' maybe you should reconsider engaging in reckless behavior. It is reckless, because you can't know the possible repercussions before hand. But again, punishment commensurate with harm is not a byproduct of an unjust system just because the same action can cause variable amounts of harm.
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WILL NOT stand by and allow someone to be punished for speaking something that I find offensive. I don't care if it offends you, it's not your right to avoid offense.
There is another distinction that you are missing. When it comes to bullying, the speech isn't necessarily "offensive", it isn't said with the intent to "offend" the victim. It is "harmful", it is said with the intent to cause "harm" to the victim. As with most legal cases, intent is important. If it can be proven a bully engaged in speech with the intent to cause harm then that bully could be prosecuted, not for his speech, but for his intent. If it the harm can also be proven, as in this case the suicide of the victim, then the charges/sentencing can be increased. They may have only intended to harm the victim however the death of the victim was the result, they are now liable (or partially liable) for contributing to that death.
Now, in case you are talking specifically about the offensive facebook post, then you must also look at it another way. The facebook post amounts to a confession, a confession of intentionally causing harm to the victim (bullying) as well as the acknowledgement that it led to the victim's suicide/death. Furthermore, it is a confession of no remorse for the effect that was caused by the bully. Even if she has no intent for her speech to lead to an acutal suicide, when she was faced with the fact that it did, she was not remorseful of her actions. Given these facts, she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and given no leniency in sentencing.
Yeah...I have a hard time seeing felony charges for "being mean".....
These girls were horrible, but they didn't kill the other girl, she killed herself.
Abuse is abuse, whether physical, emotional or psychological. Of the three, the scars of physical abuse are the easiest to heal. It wasn't too long ago that women were sent back to their abusive husbands because there weren't physical signs of the abuse. Usually, they stayed until they were killed by their abuser or their own hand or they killed their abuser, in which case they usually went to jail.
These cases are far worse than somebody "being mean." Bullying in these cases are an act of violence and until people get that, violence against weaker individuals will continue.