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Ask Slashdot: As a Programmer/Geek, Should I Learn Business?

An anonymous reader writes "During my career I've always been focused on learning new technologies and trending programming languages. I've made good money at it, but I'm not sure what the next step is. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I'm not sure how to find a good way to transition from programmer to somebody with more responsibility. Should I learn business? It it more important to focus on personal networking? Do I step into the quagmire of marketing? I'm not sure what goals I should set, because I don't know what goals are realistic. Running my own business seems like something I'd like to do, but I'm unsure how to get from here to there. I'd appreciate advice from any fellow geeks who are making (or have made) that change."

21 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. short answer by OutOnARock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    yes

    1. Re:short answer by gander666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Slightly longer answer:

      The things that probably baffle you about the leadership where you are at, the decisions that seem to make no sense, and the troglodytes that seem to have power will make more sense to you after learning a bit about business.

      As someone with a physics degree, who does marketing and product management, I self taught myself a lot of what is needed to function in these spheres. It isn't hard, but it will seem alien. It doesn't require more than a modicum of common sense (once you learn to not sneer at it) and the ability to do basic arithmetic. I occasionally break out a PDE to model a pricing structure, and am met with amazement (particularly when it turns out to accurately model the true system response). But I am a geek like that.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    2. Re:short answer by fair_n_hite_451 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Slightly longer answer:

      yeeeessssss.

      --
      Reason why there is hope for the future generation #364:
      "I wish my grass was emo so it could cut itself."
    3. Re:short answer by trout007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is always helpful to know how what you do affects the companies profits. When I worked in the private sector that was the question I would ask my boss at review time. It is a good check to see if your boss knows what they are doing. It's simple to ask "how does my performance affect our bottom line?" What can I do in the next performance review period to help this company make more money?" "How do we measure this?" "Can I get a reward based on these measurements?"

      I have never worked for a boss that could answer these questions. I assume someone somewhere could have. But at least I knew then it was a dead end job with this guy in charge.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    4. Re:short answer by todrules · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're a real geek, the answer is always yes when it comes to learning new things. It doesn't matter what it is.

  2. Yes! by agapeton · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is part of the modern fundamentals of the liberal arts: trivium, quadrivium, then everyone should also know how to physically use a computer (desktop/laptop and tablet variants), know how to make a document/make a spreadsheet/use the internet, know some HTML, know how to run a business, know how to do your taxes (without killing yourself), know when to contact an attorney (as important as 911 these days), and know how to change a tire. These are BASIC skills... and at this point you are smarter than a fifth grader!

  3. Re:Tech Management? by Irishman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even without wanting to move to a non-tech area or become management, understanding the business side of things gives insight into how/why decisions get made. It can also allow you to make calls as to which features you will implement when faced with a limited budget or other item not related to the technology. I have found it allows me to make better decisions based on pragmatic reasons and fight the fights that are really important, rather than wasting time on something that is technically not overly important but to a business person is apparently critical.

    Take care to not let the business-think take over your mind though, you may wake screaming from the cognitive dissonance that seems to be a requirement for senior business people to operate.

  4. Work out where you want to go by powerspike · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The first thing you need to do - is work out what you want to do.

    Then you can start getting your skills together - and plans.

    However in saying that, networking is always important, regardless if you want to start a business, or get into the higher rungs of management - no body is going to want your skills and services if they don't know about them.

    If you want to start your own business, remember there is things like start up cash (you'll be running at a lose for a while - even a year or two if you don't have clients to start with), you'll need to be able to market your business to the right people

    Are you going SaaS?
    Are you creating software to sell in volume, or are you going to do custom work for every client?
    Have chosen a vertical industry to go into?

  5. Re:Sign up for Entrepreneurship 101 by twilight30 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry, I forgot to sign in.

    I'm sitting in a free entrepreneurship lecture in Toronto, Ontario offered by MaRS Discovery District.
    Available here: http://marsdd.com/

    I agree with others here: do it, you'll need it.

    The course's lectures are free and archived, so there's no cost involved, just the time needed to watch and learn.

    --
    ========================================
    Death will come, and will have your eyes
    -- Pavese
  6. Re:What is your goal? by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every person not working for a wage is a business person, and needs to understand taxes, business law, accounting, and ethics.

    If you want to earn a way, there's nothing wrong with that, but many people are in small business, freelance, do projects as freelancers, and never see a W2/W4. And you'll need to know what a 1099 is, how to do accounting and why and when, and so forth.

    It ought to be mandatory. Being a programmer is a discipline and business is how the world works. You need to know both.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  7. As a geek who went to business school ... by perpenso · · Score: 5, Informative

    After decades of software development I went to business school. Some take aways.

    (1) Business school is probably not what you think. The bankers, ceos, etc making the headline news for various nefarious reasons are not practicing what they were taught in business school. They are very much like the software engineer who is taught how to write well designed maintainable and reliable code and then writes complete crap once they enter industry. You can teach people how to do the right thing but there is no guarantee they will follow through, this is true in both engineering and business. In business school you will be taught to plan for the long term, to treat your business partners well, to treat you employees well, to treat your customers well, to be socially responsible, to be ethical, etc. In other words things leading to long term company success.

    (2) An MBA program is probably not what you think. An MBA program is not about accounting and financials, that is just once topic covered. An MBA program is an overview of the complete organization and its lifecycle: Entrepreneurship, strategy, product development, marketing, accounting/finance, operations, information technology, organizational behavior (people), economics, etc. You will learn to look at things from the perspective of each of these specialties. The point of doing so is not to make you an expert in any of them. You will not become an expert, however you will learn enough to understand their perspectives and to therefore be able to effectively communicate and perhaps be more persuasive in your arguments with them. You don't have to stop being an engineer. You just become an engineer with a broader perspective and more likely to persuade ceos, accountants and people in marketing.

    (3) Your classmates will probably not be what you expect. Most people in an MBA program are not coming from an accounting/finance background. They actually represent a minority. About 1/3 of my class consisted of people coming from engineering and scientific backgrounds. You will have an incredibly wide set of skills and viewpoints among your classmates.

    (4) You get what you reward. There is a common theme that occurs in many classes, strategy, accounting, product development, information technology, operations, etc. Many failures can be traced back to having the wrong incentives. Basically people give you the behavior you incentivize, that you reward. Not what you ask for, not even what everyone agree is good or the right thing to do. There are many lessons to be learned in business school but it is amazing how often and in how many unrelated areas this one single problem arises.

    1. Re:As a geek who went to business school ... by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a serious question. Maybe I've been working for dysfunctional organizations too much, but I've noticed a different MBA pattern.

      How do you explain the hordes of McKinsey/Accenture/pwc/BCG/Bain "consultants" who walk into a business and proclaim to the execs that they have all the answers? Usually, these consultants are in their late 20s, got their MBA right after their undergrad years, never worked anything more complex than a retail job, and are immediately hired to dispense advice. I've also seen that the MBA gives new grads at least a manager job starting out, often never having worked in the field the company is in. That "MBAs can manage anything" mindset is a killer in technical job roles, and has led to me working on some miserable projects. Of course, there are exceptions, but why does the MBA automatically qualify someone as a manager any more than a paper technical certification conveys proficiency with a product?

      If MBAs really aren't taught "bad management skills," what is it that corrupts them and causes the disastrous short term thinking epidemic in companies these days?

    2. Re:As a geek who went to business school ... by ranton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      what is it that corrupts them and causes the disastrous short term thinking epidemic in companies these days?

      As the parent mentioned, they are immediately given incentives that reward short term thinking. If they don't grasp for short term solutions, they don't reach a VP position by the time they are 40. It is an endemic condition found throughout our entire economic system.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re:As a geek who went to business school ... by sydneyfong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How do you explain the hordes of McKinsey/Accenture/pwc/BCG/Bain "consultants" who walk into a business and proclaim to the execs that they have all the answers?

      Some people believe in magic(k). So you find overqualified (on paper) people to pretend to be magicians and sell them snake oil and pixie dust.

      "MBAs can manage anything" mindset is a killer in technical job roles

      I'd wager that in many non-technical, "commoditized" industries, this is actually true. If your job is to trade oranges, you're not going to set up a multimillion dollar R&D facility to make better oranges. Instead, you just try to source the cheapest oranges, and market it as if they were premium products and pocket the difference. Everyone knows what an orange looks like, and how to deal with them, so you just fire the expensive employees and hire a bunch of unskilled workers at minimum wage. Any on-the-job skill required would be picked up in a week by those workers -- there's nothing complicated about oranges.

      That's how the vast majority of businesses are done. When the CEO of the oranges trading company jumps to a textile company making commodity (non-designer) clothes, it's pretty much the same thing. Sell off the factory, buy cheap stuff from China, put your brand on it and market it like crazy. Then they wonder why people look at them funny when they move to a tech company and their first act is to sell off the billion dollar R&D facility and fire all the employees working there. Just get a team in India to do that programming stuff, right?

      That being said, while you can laugh at the ignorance of most of the MBAs, technically oriented people (eg. slashdotters) are often just as clueless when it comes to the business side. That's why it's really hard to find a right CEO or exec for a tech company -- they have to know both worlds really well.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
    4. Re:As a geek who went to business school ... by mellyra · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How do you explain the hordes of McKinsey/Accenture/pwc/BCG/Bain "consultants" who walk into a business and proclaim to the execs that they have all the answers? Usually, these consultants are in their late 20s, got their MBA right after their undergrad years, never worked anything more complex than a retail job, and are immediately hired to dispense advice.

      Strategic consultants aren't hired to provide answers, they are hired to provide "independent" "scientific" justification for those answers that your execs have already decided upon but don't want to be held responsible for.

      I recommend you read the third part of this article series in which a young former consultant recounts his experience with BCG in Dubai:

      Part I: The city of tomorrow

      Part II: Welcome to your caste

      Part III: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

      Part IV: Dispatches from the collapse

  8. Re:Tech Management? by Lennie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most businesses are doing it wrong.

    Instead of moving smart people from being productive to management-type functions and get payed more, they should pay the more productive people more.

    As Gabe Newell from Valve puts it: Management is a skill, not a career path.

    --
    New things are always on the horizon
  9. Yes, to an extent by jwthompson2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The answer depends on where you want your career to go. But, regardless I would say that all programmers should invest the time to understand the business they work for so that they can best serve the interests of their employer. This is different from getting an MBA or studying business in the general sense. Programmers need to understand the problems that their company deals with, otherwise they're not going to see the best solutions.

    As an example I currently work for a company that manufactures packaged food products. As the lead developer it is part of my job to understand how the business operates; from how our inventory is managed, to how our customers pay us, to how our shipping personnel process incoming and outgoing items. Understanding this and talking to people in all these areas allows me to spot inefficiencies and address problems, sometimes before others realize they are a big deal. That means I can help put technology to work in a way that makes our business more efficient, which leads to better profits and happy bosses and better compensation for myself and those I work with.

    Unless all you ever want to be is a low-rung developer, or if you don't have any desire to stay with the company you're with long-term; then it always makes sense to get to know your business, and it will make you a more valuable employee.

    --
    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
  10. PS - I've run businesses my whole life by raymorris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    BTW, the comment above is from someone who has run businesses my entire life, helped several other people start businesses, and whose clients and mostly small businesses. I just sold one of my companies, which is the second time I've sold a business. Now I have one left (Clonebox). So it's not that I'm saying starting and running a business is a bad thing - it's just not right for YOU right NOW.

    When I was about eight years old I put an ad in the newspaper selling replacement window screens. I'd go to your home or business (on my bicycle) and make custom fit window screens. I have a passion for starting new businesses, and don't mind working until 2AM doing that. I also enjoy running them, being the "buck stops here" guy, even though that means the buck stops with me at 2AM, I'm the one who has to get up and drive 90 miles to the datacenter or whatever. From what you've said, you really don't know if you have any interest in business. In that case, starting one would be like getting married without ever going on a date.

  11. No by Miamicanes · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > Should I learn business? It it more important to focus on personal networking?

    No, and it doesn't matter. Statistically, if you're good at programming and love it, you'll probably be miserable focusing on business, and even MORE miserable trying to force yourself to personally network. If you're miserable, you'll never succeed. Network enough to find someone who won't fuck you over too badly who genuinely ENJOYS the business end, and stick with programming. Come up with something cool, and let THEM worry about finding a way to make it profitable, so you can buy a cool loft somewhere, take a few decent vacations to places you enjoy, and have enough money in the bank after the IPO to let you spend the rest of your life writing quirky open-source software for your own personal gratification.

    Learn enough about business to sense when you're getting screwed over, but don't try to BE the one who actually RUNS the business. Been there, done it, swore to at least 3 major deities I'll never do it again. And fortunately, I was young enough to be mostly judgment-proof. If you're a programmer, having to spend most of your time being a bill-collector, salesperson, or worse will demoralize more than anything you've ever done in your life. If you study ANY area of business, study the basics of IP law so you can turn your hobbies into a personal patent portfolio, then go shopping for someone to finance your future fun.

  12. Re:Business is an instinctive art by neonmonk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "No one can tell you when the price will go up, or if the commodity will crash." - this is not business. This is futures speculation.
    "No one can explain to you why (before launch) a product gonna sell like hot cakes." - this is not business. This is product speculation. Something that journalists do. Companies create products that there is market demand for. They know there's market demand because there's already competition out there. Most of the time they do not become market leaders.

    Business is about networking. It's about making deals with people and creating relationships with the right people. Clients, suppliers, employees.

    Good leadership absolutely can be taught. This is why having a mentor is absolutely necessary in the world of business. The mistake people make is focusing their learning on their weaknesses. You should focus your learning on your strengths and hire people that complement your weaknesses.

    Jobs was great at contract negotiation, as he was a narcissistic sociopath that could deify or bully anyone he pleased at any time without remorse. He got his own way more often than not. He was ruthless & unforgiving in "maintaining perfection" with the products & ideas he took on. And he fucked up many times. The Next Cube. Pushing Pixar to be a hardware company. The Apple Lisa. Macintosh TV. The Apple III. The Powermac g4 cube.

    Steve Jobs was ruthless & lucky, and like all deified CEOs, stood on the shoulders of giants. Where would Mr Jobs be without Steve Wozniak? Where would Jobs be if Apple didn't have the pulling power needed to employ the best & brightest? You would never have heard of him.

  13. What does your company make??? by johnlcallaway · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you answered anything but 'money', you are wrong. You need to know the basic of making money and the processes that help a company know if they are making a profit or not. You need to be able to do a cost analysis of a project so if it's something you really think is a good thing to do, you can prove it from a 'making money' perspective, or at least 'not losing as much'. The cool thing is, many of these skills are transferable to your personal life in how you handle money also. Accounts payable, receivable, book keeping, and budgeting are all skills one needs in the daily life to manage finances. For instance, an understanding of ROI can help one decide if they should spend the extra money on the higher grade of carpeting.

    You don't need to be an expert, some basic account, marketing, and ethics knowledge will suffice. It used to be that developers would spend time out in the field learning these things. I've sat with accountants, bookkeepers, and other office staff for hours at a time learning their trade to help design software for them, and in doing so picked up a lot of skills. But opportunities like that don't happen as much anymore; with the advent of more formal SDLC procedures the ability of developers to mingle with their users has limited that path to a few higher level jobs, like project leaders and architects.

    It's not important whether you learn by taking formal classes or buying books and studying or just being observant at work. But you do need to know it. Or be prepared to be nothing more than a code monkey the rest of your career.

    --
    I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.