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Ask Slashdot: As a Programmer/Geek, Should I Learn Business?
An anonymous reader writes "During my career I've always been focused on learning new technologies and trending programming languages. I've made good money at it, but I'm not sure what the next step is. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I'm not sure how to find a good way to transition from programmer to somebody with more responsibility. Should I learn business? It it more important to focus on personal networking? Do I step into the quagmire of marketing? I'm not sure what goals I should set, because I don't know what goals are realistic. Running my own business seems like something I'd like to do, but I'm unsure how to get from here to there. I'd appreciate advice from any fellow geeks who are making (or have made) that change."
yes
write a script (not even worth real code) to replace MBAs once and for all?
Are you looking to climb the ladder on the tech side or completely move to something non-tech like marketing, sales, HR, etc.?
I've had good results in getting opportunities to manage and lead tech teams because I have spent a good bit of time pursuing business goals. The goals themselves have not been successful but being someone who would take on the responsibility of making a business work gives you a good start in conversations about moving up the ladder on the tech side.
.. If you enjoy losing your soul.
Brush up on the art of backstabbing, lying through your teeth, fake smiles, and keeping up appearances and you'll be successful in business.
Oh, you just want to deal in local business? Don't want to get tangled up in the politics of a large national or multinational and want to stay in your local community? Well then the above goes double. (Triple if you're involved in local politics)
What is it that you really want to be? Do you want to be a businessman? (or woman, but then, this is Slashdot after all) If so, by all means study business. Do you want to be a project manager, or do some other type of management? If so, study that. Until you know what you want to do with the rest of your life, nobody can tell you what to study, and once you do, you won't need to ask.
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If nothing else, it is an important part of a well rounded education. It will help you personally and professionally.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
It's useful to know enough about these things that you can discuss the basics with the people you work with. That said, you do not need a degree in marketing to speak marketer, and you do not need an MBA to speak boss.
This is part of the modern fundamentals of the liberal arts: trivium, quadrivium, then everyone should also know how to physically use a computer (desktop/laptop and tablet variants), know how to make a document/make a spreadsheet/use the internet, know some HTML, know how to run a business, know how to do your taxes (without killing yourself), know when to contact an attorney (as important as 911 these days), and know how to change a tire. These are BASIC skills... and at this point you are smarter than a fifth grader!
Sure, get a business minor and/or an MBA. Especially if you like the business side of things. I have a minor in business, and got a major in CS. I've been very happy with my education and run a small software business. Or you can teach yourself these things by just reading books and listening to lectures, but that is harder to "sell" on a resume unless you can back it up with job experience...
The first thing you need to do - is work out what you want to do.
Then you can start getting your skills together - and plans.
However in saying that, networking is always important, regardless if you want to start a business, or get into the higher rungs of management - no body is going to want your skills and services if they don't know about them.
If you want to start your own business, remember there is things like start up cash (you'll be running at a lose for a while - even a year or two if you don't have clients to start with), you'll need to be able to market your business to the right people
Are you going SaaS?
Are you creating software to sell in volume, or are you going to do custom work for every client?
Have chosen a vertical industry to go into?
Keep doing it. It seems like you are implying that you have moved up as high as you can as a programmer and therefore, you must move onto "business". I think this is a false assumption. Sometimes management can be a good move for some people, but for others it's not. You will have to play politics and do things you don't currently consider work. You might hate it. You also will not necessarily make more money doing it. I know of cases where a manager did not make as much as programmers that report to him/her. I'm not saying "business" is bad, but just go into it with both eyes open if that's your choice.
Sorry, I forgot to sign in.
I'm sitting in a free entrepreneurship lecture in Toronto, Ontario offered by MaRS Discovery District.
Available here: http://marsdd.com/
I agree with others here: do it, you'll need it.
The course's lectures are free and archived, so there's no cost involved, just the time needed to watch and learn.
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Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
Business can be learned, but like all things it is better to learn that in your pre-teen years and continues for a life time. Marketing is something you are born with... you can learn it but the innate talent (?) has to come first. Yes, learn business!!!
At UCSD, I majored in Computer Engineering and minored in Business Economics. This combines lower division economics, and upper division accounting. It does help me think of money and time's value to managers, and understand the jargon of the business world.
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
But yes you should get the bulk (or entirety) of what makes an MBA under your belt; just don't drink the kool-aid. I really don't like people who only have an MBA. But having a real skill plus an MBA is pretty powerful stuff. Quite simply I have seen a zillion people build awesome stuff (me included) and just not market it very well or at all. And then I have seen people with complete dog poo for a product market the product into being set for life. Guess which skillset the later had and the former didn't have? This is not just marketing but being able to communicate with those moneyed types such as investors and banks.
At the same time financial training is not a magic bullet. I have seen highly educated CFOs get completely hosed by well concocted financial set-ups.
As I said, don't drink the kool-aid. The worst symptom of a useless MBA is that they are able to manipulate reality through very convincing reports and excellent spread sheets. A recent example of this behavior would be the MS Windows phone OS. MS made every effort to make it look like it was gaining real traction; I even remember one article where they were breathlessly predicting that it would have over 50% of the smart phone market by about 2014. Even when sales were abysmal they started quoting numbers like units shipped or quoting the first day sales as a comparison to other phones.
With good business training you will learn to bend the market into accepting your awesome product. With the same training you might even fool the market into buying your worthless product. But with only technical training you should be prepared to be the only user of your awesome product.
Business will help you no matter what you get in to. It's worthwhile, but if you don't care about it, you won't invest yourself in it and really appreciate it.
Sales/marketing takes more natural ability than book teaching in my experience. Here you REALLY have to have a desire for it, or you get burned out quickly and hate your job.
Starting your own business requires some level of knowledge of both, as well as finance/economics, or complementing your team with those knowledgeable/trustworthy where you lack.
So you have figured out what you are currently doing isn't your passion, now figure out what IS your passion. The only reason I was happy with the career I've had is because the day to day job I enjoyed, in all aspects of my career, including current. Explore other venues, talk to friends, see what excites you, then pursue what permits you to be involved in that.
(I've managed multiple businesses, owned a tiny company [short-lived], then worked for others in creative fields, now manage property investments and wear multiple hats, none of which required even my high school diploma, heh.)
The other trick is to find something fulfilling that capitalizes on skills you have in other ways. Also, ask friends what they see you possibly doing other than what you are doing. I encouraged a friend to become a childrens' librarian over a decade ago, she's been enjoying that work ever since. Another friend is in the process of transitioning his career to reselling/auctioning, totally up his alley.
PS: Networking is required/a given in all options, to various degrees, so it's not a separate consideration.
Look, if you want to get paid to program, you're going to need to know something about the business or organization you work in. In a ton of cases, that means knowing some accounting, organizational structure, and the actual goals of the business. For anyone who can actually program, that should be too hard.
After decades of software development I went to business school. Some take aways.
(1) Business school is probably not what you think. The bankers, ceos, etc making the headline news for various nefarious reasons are not practicing what they were taught in business school. They are very much like the software engineer who is taught how to write well designed maintainable and reliable code and then writes complete crap once they enter industry. You can teach people how to do the right thing but there is no guarantee they will follow through, this is true in both engineering and business. In business school you will be taught to plan for the long term, to treat your business partners well, to treat you employees well, to treat your customers well, to be socially responsible, to be ethical, etc. In other words things leading to long term company success.
(2) An MBA program is probably not what you think. An MBA program is not about accounting and financials, that is just once topic covered. An MBA program is an overview of the complete organization and its lifecycle: Entrepreneurship, strategy, product development, marketing, accounting/finance, operations, information technology, organizational behavior (people), economics, etc. You will learn to look at things from the perspective of each of these specialties. The point of doing so is not to make you an expert in any of them. You will not become an expert, however you will learn enough to understand their perspectives and to therefore be able to effectively communicate and perhaps be more persuasive in your arguments with them. You don't have to stop being an engineer. You just become an engineer with a broader perspective and more likely to persuade ceos, accountants and people in marketing.
(3) Your classmates will probably not be what you expect. Most people in an MBA program are not coming from an accounting/finance background. They actually represent a minority. About 1/3 of my class consisted of people coming from engineering and scientific backgrounds. You will have an incredibly wide set of skills and viewpoints among your classmates.
(4) You get what you reward. There is a common theme that occurs in many classes, strategy, accounting, product development, information technology, operations, etc. Many failures can be traced back to having the wrong incentives. Basically people give you the behavior you incentivize, that you reward. Not what you ask for, not even what everyone agree is good or the right thing to do. There are many lessons to be learned in business school but it is amazing how often and in how many unrelated areas this one single problem arises.
I remember when I was a young engineer. I got promoted through the ranks quickly, and at some point faced the same quagmire as you. What I ended up doing was to take a program of marketing management. Two months, Friday all day and Sat mornings for a month and a half to get a taste of the discipline (I was exposed to economy and accounting at the University, 12 weeks each, and lots of reading on economy, administration, etc). After that brief and non compromising stint, I realized that there were more nuances to marketing than what could be anticipated, and that the whole "Business" field was VERY interesting to me. Therefore, I went and did a full time MBA.
If you are gonna learn on your own (which I do not recommend), try to read the classics, Kotler on marketing management, rice & trout for positioning, etc. No Wikipedia or "Business for dummies" for you.
If you are going to take (a) short course(s) on the subject, go to reputable schools (I did the Short stint at IESA, not high in the world rankings, but best in my country, and did my MBA at IE in Madrid), while there are no hard and fast guarantees, going to reputable institutions will raise the possibility of being exposed to great teachers. Try to go for classroom courses, is harder, but you will build your "networking thingie" much better.
There is no guarantee that doing an MBA will improve your situation. But it would be hell to sign up for an MBA and discovering that you HATE "Business", and ALSO it would also be a grave mistake to decide "What you want to do" without at least a glance of what this "Business" thing is all about.
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
I work in areas of quantitive finance and have found the CFA charter to be very worthwhile. It briefly covers some of the subject matter of an MBA but is more oriented toward analysis which may be a good fit to a geek mind-set.
It's not an easy program - first, because it's largely self-study and second, because each of the three successive levels of the test has about a 50% pass rate. However, the self-study aspect also means it's far less expensive than most academic business degrees. Also, the rigorousness of the test makes it a highly-valued credential.
You can find out more at the site of the CFA Institute: https://www.cfainstitute.org/pages/index.aspx .
I think it's best to go "all in" - or not go in at all. If you want to get an MBA or other business education, make a commitment to it. However, most technical managers I know have no real business education and they do just fine in The Big Corporation. So a business education is helpful but not necessary.
Likewise, if you want to start your own business, go all in. I've operated a part-time home software business for the last 15 years which has been modestly successful. However, since I do 100% of everything myself, it ultimately can't grow beyond a certain level without more commitment of time and energy than I can give to it. I don't regret the way it's worked out, but it has never allowed me to quit my day job - as I had originally hoped.
An "all in" approach to starting a business would be to quit your day job, then sink or swim. A business education might be helpful, but if you're good at learning new skills, you don't need to get a degree for that. There's plenty you can learn through self study - and also from the school of hard knocks. In my case, I had to learn lots of little skills of both a technical and business nature, including various software skills, web site design/administration, software publishing, marketing, and basic business skills in accounting, taxes, and legal. For example, whenever I do a contract, I write it myself and then pay a lawyer to check it over and spruce it up.
I honestly don't think there's any degree that covers all that. OTOH, if you're more serious about your business than I am, you'd probably pay people to do most of that stuff for you. In fact, the highly successful entrepreneurs of the world recognize that they can't do 100% of everything and are adept at finding people to do it for them. And they go all in.
The answer depends on where you want your career to go. But, regardless I would say that all programmers should invest the time to understand the business they work for so that they can best serve the interests of their employer. This is different from getting an MBA or studying business in the general sense. Programmers need to understand the problems that their company deals with, otherwise they're not going to see the best solutions.
As an example I currently work for a company that manufactures packaged food products. As the lead developer it is part of my job to understand how the business operates; from how our inventory is managed, to how our customers pay us, to how our shipping personnel process incoming and outgoing items. Understanding this and talking to people in all these areas allows me to spot inefficiencies and address problems, sometimes before others realize they are a big deal. That means I can help put technology to work in a way that makes our business more efficient, which leads to better profits and happy bosses and better compensation for myself and those I work with.
Unless all you ever want to be is a low-rung developer, or if you don't have any desire to stay with the company you're with long-term; then it always makes sense to get to know your business, and it will make you a more valuable employee.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
and how it is applied. I am in business and got my programming certs in Java and VB. It has helped me immensely, becuase too many business people don't understand the complexities of tech and see it as a panacea for everything.
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
1) "How to Get Rich," by Felix Dennis 2) "Screw it, Let's do it," by Richard Branson
Absolutely do NOT start your own business at this point. The first few years of starting a business typically means working 60 hours doing alot of business management and adminsistration. Unless you have a passion for either a) tax forms or b) working until 2AM because the buck stops with you, starting and running a business probably isn't your optimal choice. That's especially true if you'd have any employees. There's a lot of crap involved in being an employer. Without employees, you still have to run the company, so while you're doing the quarterly taxes, who is serving the customers?
Check into project management. There are certifications available. After a few years of managing projects, you'll have some clue if you'd want to manage a company and how to manage a company.
Absolutely yes and at least become familiar with other departments at your company. It will really make you appreciate the roles that sales, marketing, technical support, product management, professional services, accounting, legal, etc. play.
As for myself I transitioned from pure development into professional services (customer-facing post-sales installation, training, integrations, trouble-shooting). As much as I liked development I'm finding I'm really good at this role even though I consider myself an introvert. This group works really close with sales and technical support and I've learned a lot about those departments.
Benefits include: travel to exotic places, exposure to many companies (good networking opportunity), short-term projects with rapid closure, more time and brain energy to pursue personal projects, and very importantly: I'm no longer part of a cost-center i.e. when billable I'm making the company money! It offers some protection against off-shoring.
Drawbacks include: travel, no social life, and I miss hard-core development.
I realize that this may not be the path you intend to become an entrepreneur but relaying my experience for the benefit of others.
BTW, the comment above is from someone who has run businesses my entire life, helped several other people start businesses, and whose clients and mostly small businesses. I just sold one of my companies, which is the second time I've sold a business. Now I have one left (Clonebox). So it's not that I'm saying starting and running a business is a bad thing - it's just not right for YOU right NOW.
When I was about eight years old I put an ad in the newspaper selling replacement window screens. I'd go to your home or business (on my bicycle) and make custom fit window screens. I have a passion for starting new businesses, and don't mind working until 2AM doing that. I also enjoy running them, being the "buck stops here" guy, even though that means the buck stops with me at 2AM, I'm the one who has to get up and drive 90 miles to the datacenter or whatever. From what you've said, you really don't know if you have any interest in business. In that case, starting one would be like getting married without ever going on a date.
Learning how business works should be a high school basic class. If you are involved with programming beyond the "here's a spec, write code to match it" level, being able to communicate with users in their own terms will make your life SO much easier!
As others have pointed out, it will help you with the "big picture".
If you're writing software to be used by businesses, understanding what is important to them affects what you develop. It is easy for someone to write a detailed specification of what someone THINKS they want. It is easy to write software to match that spec. But, how do you deal with the aftermath of finding out what was really being asked? "Why are we generating a daily report on information that is only available on a weekly basis?" "Why are we generating a weekly report, when the data changes by the hour?" Without a background in business, those questions would not occur to you.
Software people are often isolated from the people who use software by a common language, to borrow an old line. Learning about business, even without going to get a degree, will help you understand when words don't mean what you think they mean.
And I'll tell you this - if you don't know instinctually and through experience how to apply business knowledge, you're a lot like that clueless 18 year-old kid who thinks they'll be able to read minds after studying psychology.
When people tell me that they are going to LEARN business I look at them with funny expression.
Business can't be learn.
Sure, some skills you can pick up here and there, but the main part of BUSINESS is still largely based on instinct.
No one can tell you when the price will go up, or if the commodity will crash.
No one can explain to you why (before launch) a product gonna sell like hot cakes.
Sure, there are a lot of after-the-effect pundits, doing their 20/20 hindsight analysis, but those are essentially useless.
What is really needed in Business, after all, is the keen sense of knowing what will happen in the future, something that Steve Jobs possessed and many others were sorely lacking.
That is why, without Mr. Jobs, Apple came out with that ridiculous "Apple Newton", and with Steve on the helm, they had their iPhone and iPad.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
When I was a lonely undergrad and not studying for my degree in what they now call MIS because I was too busy writing code the department chair of all people gave me a great piece of advice that I have never forgotten and it has paid off on at least one occasion. He told me the being a coder is all well and good but the people who really get the jobs are those who can code AND are competent in some other area as well.
One job I got in the late 90's with a library software vendor was specifically because I knew the true evil that lurks in the way libraries use computers thanks to a masters degree in library science I obtained. I knew the terminology and actually knew something about cataloging and automated library systems having done it in grad school using their products. The fact that I knew Java at a time when not many people did all helped as well.
The job have now is, ironically, the one I've always wanted but didn't get after getting my BS because I didn't specialize at first. However, I have a lot of experience in the Java world, something they don't have, and I had to take a big pay cut (it's the government) in order to do this work without a lot of experience in the corporate world.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
learn how business works. The level of learning depends on your interest. Do you really want to start your own business? Or you just don't want to do technical stuffs anymore. Just want to share: I don't want to own a business because I grew up poor and now I am very afraid of losing money and back to being broke. So I fall in the latter category. After more than 10 years doing the grunt works, I understand enough the big picture of my industry to make reasonable decisions and to lead a small group of people to complete projects. I'm just waiting for the right opportunity right now to move up to management.
Especially if your company's paying, you should do it. If nothing else, it might give you perspective. I have a pretty broad background, but don't have an MBA. I'm not sure if it would help me or not but I'm never against learning something new.
That said, what is your reason for wanting to be in management, or "something more responsible?" I've been repeatedly asked to make this transition, given that I'm getting older, and so far I've been able to avoid it. Not that I mind responsibility -- I have technical authority over a very complex product at work. The reason why I don't want to go there is that I don't want to work with the equivalent of preschoolers and their people problems all day long. I would much rather be solving problems. To top it all off, if you're in a big organization, lower-to-middle management is always the first to get at least one level knocked out of the hierarchy at the first sign of trouble.
Also, consider the fact that management is not a technical job. You will never do anything remotely technical again -- which is one of the reasons I'm avoiding it. Your job will be to delegate tasks to your staff, something I've never been comfortable with, and you have to hope and pray they get it right. You'll spend your entire day in meetings, crafting emails and fighting your way through an organization of people. It is problem solving, but a very different kind. and not everyone is good at it.
In short, know this before you leap out of your technical job. I was offered and accepted a management job a few years ago, found out I sucked at it, and had to quit because the company I worked for refused to demote me back to somewhere I could be useful.
The actual "learning" part that goes in a classroom is nothing, no problem. The hard part is the personal interaction part. And if you can't do that naturally, no program is going to teach it to you, and you won't succeed in business.
Learn to suppress your gag reflex.
Some business basics should probably be a high school graduation requirement. One way or another, people are going to have to deal with or become a business. Understanding the basics of loans, billing, contracts, employee laws, etc. would be good for both sides.
Sad stories: When I worked for a major local engineering/manufacturing firm, I ran across engineers that had no idea what the Dow Jones Industrial Average was (including one guy who had several hundred K$ in stock). When they enrolled me in a management training class, one of the 'get to know you' exercises was to name one of your heros. I put down Warren Buffett. The instructor (an MBA grad) thought he was a country/folk singer.
Have gnu, will travel.
I did something similar. That worked pretty well except it made me an EMPLOYER. It takes a lot of extra work to be an employer in the US, if you want to do it legally. The fed, state, county, and city all want a piece of you.
I just sold my business that had two employees. From now on, I won't hire anyone until I'm ready to hire at least three.
Having studied finance (eg business) I would say definitely not... Now if you'd also like to sign this contract I sent you assigning me all rights and incomes from your intellectual property that would be swell. It'll benefit both us , pinkie promise, I swear...
> Should I learn business? It it more important to focus on personal networking?
No, and it doesn't matter. Statistically, if you're good at programming and love it, you'll probably be miserable focusing on business, and even MORE miserable trying to force yourself to personally network. If you're miserable, you'll never succeed. Network enough to find someone who won't fuck you over too badly who genuinely ENJOYS the business end, and stick with programming. Come up with something cool, and let THEM worry about finding a way to make it profitable, so you can buy a cool loft somewhere, take a few decent vacations to places you enjoy, and have enough money in the bank after the IPO to let you spend the rest of your life writing quirky open-source software for your own personal gratification.
Learn enough about business to sense when you're getting screwed over, but don't try to BE the one who actually RUNS the business. Been there, done it, swore to at least 3 major deities I'll never do it again. And fortunately, I was young enough to be mostly judgment-proof. If you're a programmer, having to spend most of your time being a bill-collector, salesperson, or worse will demoralize more than anything you've ever done in your life. If you study ANY area of business, study the basics of IP law so you can turn your hobbies into a personal patent portfolio, then go shopping for someone to finance your future fun.
if you are asking if you should on /. = my guess is that you probably aren't that interested
but this always make me laugh (because it is true)
It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
Starting your own business is a lot harder than working as an employee/programmer/engineer etc. There's a lot of BS you have to deal with, and at 10:30pm if the order has to get out for the morning, guess who's running the machinery? And if you are just breaking even, that 10:30pm isn't even going to end up in your own pocket. I started a small businesss with a friend, worked 30+ hrs a week on it, had to work 40hrs a week as "high income earning consultant" to pay my bills, and for 7 years I was flat broke. From new BMW to 25 year old Mercedes (mind you i did learn that an old Mercedes is 10x the car of a new vehicle, but that's another story). :)
Once we gave up on the business, after paying off the most impatient of the creditors, then working down the more patient ones, I can finally enjoy things like going out for dinner and buying "stuff". Since I'm used to working crazy hours, I can put in 10 or more overtime hours and that's just gravy.
My advice; get attached to someone who has experience starting a business, and has deep pockets, and help them to get from $10 million in net worth to $50 million (or whatever their goal is). You'll get a taste of business, possibly be "in control" of your work and you'll have a lot less pain than just going out on your own.
We've followed similar career arcs. When I figured out, like you, that this wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life, I started studying money. It's essentially a new language, with variable, types, modules, classes etc. Once you understand the basic premises, it's no more difficult to make it than to write a significant application.
The cool thing about working towards a good chunk of cash is that it gives you the ability to take a step back and look around. Maybe software development IS what you want to do for the rest of your life, but you don't want to be tied to the company you're at, or to a paycheck at all. Maybe you want to do like This guy.
I'm not much for the self help genre, but try these two books. Even if they don't solve your problems, at least you'll be happier where you are.
How to Win Friends and Influence People
Rich Dad, Poor Dad
I don't think you should be asking that question. You need to understand what brought you to development, and why you don't want to continue in it. From that you can figure out where you want to go. If you really wanted to go into business you would have phrased that question completely different. As for mechanics, I'd say networking is always helpful. It cannot hurt at the very least, and getting exposed to many different people is good. I'd start by asking people where you currently work what they are doing. Many people are happy to explain what they are doing if you show an interest in it. Pay attention and look with the lens of whether you'd want to be doing what they're doing. For starting a business, it really depends. Lots of cities have organizations that help connect new founders to mentors. Do Startup Weekend or some such. Even if you don't want to stay in tech it wouldn't hurt to know how that works. The dynamics of starting a company is really similar whether that company is tech or something non tech. I would not go for an MBA or any real class until you have a clue whether you really want to do it or not. And now for the bad news, your development experience will devalue quickly over time. Lets say you're lucky and start a company and that company lasts for 2 years. So you need a job relatively quickly so you fallback on your old skills. Right now that wouldn't hurt too much. However, lets back up to 2007 or 2002, you would like be SOL. Your old skills are old, and your new skills are way too new. So I'd make sure you have a decent safety net before transitioning.
Studying business is short sighted. At the end you'll find it's mostly a waste of time because you could have learned it all on the job. Blah blah, yield management, blah blah cash flow, blah blah EBITDA.
If you feel strongly about studying business, what you'll find next is the obstacle you can't get around is law. As much as you might want to understand the business dynamics, you'll run into having to deal with contracts, agreements, or copyrights and patents. That's a much harder obstacle to overcome, even if you have internal counsel.
Having said that, look at your options and figure out the path. If you go into management you'll figure out the b-side and have no need for a silly MBA. You'll still be stuck dealing with legal though. With regards to marketing: you either have that skill or you don't. You already know the answer to that question. The best at marketing use analytics and statistics; and the overwhelming majority don't. If you have the opportunity to learn from the best, do it, or don't bother.
----- obSig
Overall I'd recommend anyone who criticizes MBAs to try and reserve judgment until you have a chance to go sit in on a class at a good school. I believe that you will be surprised at what it's like, who you meet, and you might even change your opinion.
That is exactly what happened with me. A friend was a TA and a guest speaker for his class was the person running the Mohave Spaceport. My friend thought I might be interested and invited me to sit in. I think the class was entrepreneurship and they were discussing the various companies at Mojave and the civilian space industry in general. Sitting in got me thinking about enrolling in the program.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Every software developer should have their own company, even if it's just a company of one. Nothing teaches you how to be a better employee than being a boss, even of just yourself. You should have your own company in parallel with your day job until you can support yourself fully.
Virtually everything important I've learned about how to deliver working code came first from working on an outside project, which I then perfected by applying those techniques as part of a project at work. Everything important I've learned about what people are really like -- the good, bad, and the ugly -- was formed in the same way: in my outside "company" first, then finished within the context of my employer.
The big takeaway about business I learned is that a good business is a stool with three legs: one leg is sales, the other is operations/development, and the third is administrative/executive. Every one of those legs are equally important, the company is only as strong as the weakest leg, and if any one leg is failing badly, it is only a matter of time before the company will fail.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
I don't want to do this for the rest of my life.
how come?
I'm not sure how to find a good way to transition from programmer to somebody with more responsibility.
sort of implies that you have been unresponsible as a developer. fits well with asking those questions. good luck.
If you answered anything but 'money', you are wrong. You need to know the basic of making money and the processes that help a company know if they are making a profit or not. You need to be able to do a cost analysis of a project so if it's something you really think is a good thing to do, you can prove it from a 'making money' perspective, or at least 'not losing as much'. The cool thing is, many of these skills are transferable to your personal life in how you handle money also. Accounts payable, receivable, book keeping, and budgeting are all skills one needs in the daily life to manage finances. For instance, an understanding of ROI can help one decide if they should spend the extra money on the higher grade of carpeting.
You don't need to be an expert, some basic account, marketing, and ethics knowledge will suffice. It used to be that developers would spend time out in the field learning these things. I've sat with accountants, bookkeepers, and other office staff for hours at a time learning their trade to help design software for them, and in doing so picked up a lot of skills. But opportunities like that don't happen as much anymore; with the advent of more formal SDLC procedures the ability of developers to mingle with their users has limited that path to a few higher level jobs, like project leaders and architects.
It's not important whether you learn by taking formal classes or buying books and studying or just being observant at work. But you do need to know it. Or be prepared to be nothing more than a code monkey the rest of your career.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
If you want a degree, consider an MA in Economics instead of an MBA. Pick a solid school with plenty of flexibility in course selection. Take some classes that MBA students take—general Mgmt, Finance, Production Mgmt, etc.—and otherwise concentrate on behavioral and quantitative stuff (business psychology, forecasting, econometrics). You'll probably need to take some undergraduate prerequisite courses such as Micro, Macro, Money & Banking... but that's a good thing. What you'll end up with is a deeper understanding of how and why things work in the business world (and world in general) than MBAs at the same school get. You won't end up learning as many heuristics and observations concerning how to achieve business objectives. Those can be easily learned by reading articles (Harvard Business Review, etc.) on your own. What else might you miss? MBAs are generally in a mutual admiration society and may undervalue your education's relevance to the organization due to their lack of knowledge about it. If you're looking for money, it may not be your best bet, as you'll be promoted based on proven expertise rather than the assumed value of your credentials. If you're looking for a greater understanding, it probably is your best bet.
Yes, I'm swimming upstream here, but somebody needs to.
that's what Im looking for....
I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
Try replacing the above areas of expertise with: brain surgeon, rocket scientist, or hell if you don't want to be intellectually elitist race car driver and you see just how ridiculous this is and why MBAs are treated with such contempt by technies. (Well that and they've lived through their dreams and work being ruined by inane decisions).
I think that a lot of that feeling comes from not actually understanding business - many techies don't, I know that I didn't when I was younger.
The business professional may be able to look at a situation and say, "You're building the wrong product, it won't help any of our customers or prospects so it won't sell." To which the techie may respond, "But look, its twice as fast as its competition!"
Both are right - it may be amazingly good software - but that doesn't mean that the company for which they work should pay the developer to keep writing it.
See also: bridge to nowhere, Alaska.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Writing software (GNU) != Selling software (Microsoft)
Both require mutually exclusive skills.
Casteism
My major right now is account with the emphasis on the information systems. I plan to get my CPA certification so if the computer aspect doesn't work out, I have something to fall back on.
Learning about business is probably a good idea for anyone who works for a living, and possibly others.
I decided to this recently and went back and forth with the idea of going for an MBA, but realized that the return on my investment of money and time to get it would not be worth it, so I decided to learn on my own.
The first book that I'm reading for that purpose, and I'm glad that it is, is "The Personal MBA: Master The Art of Business" by Josh Kaufman. This has been excellent so far, giving a concise introduction from scratch to what seems to me like a complete A to Z of business topics, and providing pointers to where to learn more. The writing is clear, and I have actually been enjoying reading it.
After reading that, you can branch out into more specialized books on topics about which you would like to learn more. The author of the book above has read thousands of books on business and other related topics and points you to the ones that he believes are worth your time.
Good luck!