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New York City Considers Articulated Subway Cars
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Many of New York City's subway cars are well past their prime and due for fleet replacement, most strikingly those on the C line, known by their model number, R32, and for the tin-can siding that will continue rolling beneath Eighth Avenue for at least a few more years. Now the NYT reports that transit planners have urged the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to consider articulated subway cars for any future fleet upgrades. Articulated cars, already adopted in cities like Berlin, Paris, and Toronto, have no doors between cars, allowing unrestricted flow throughout the length of the train that could increase capacity by 8 percent to 10 percent. Adam Lisberg, the authority's chief spokesman, says that increased capacity could also improve 'dwell time' — the period during which a train is stopped in a station, often because of overcrowding — and allow more trains to run. 'We're one of the largest systems in the world that doesn't do it,' says Richard Barone, the director of transportation programs at the Regional Plan Association. 'Our trains don't function right now to allow people to circulate.' Articulation also has the benefit of making empty trains feel safer. By allowing passengers the ability to move between cars easily and to see passengers throughout the train, the isolation that can sometimes feel dangerous on a late-night subway is less of an issue, simply because the whole train is joined together like one huge car. But not everyone embraces the idea. Elizabeth Kubany who works in the Flatiron district, expressed a fondness for the current configuration, suggesting that the separated cars were more 'intimate' binding passenger to passenger in an increasingly antisocial age. Then she reconsidered. 'You don't really want to be intimate with people on the train.'"
The doors are there. The transit authority just doesn't allow people to use them because most people are too stupid to use them safely.
On Septa and Metro North you can move between cars while the train is stopped to facilitate boarding, and on Amtrak you can move between cars at will.
If it cost the same it would be a no-brainer ... increased capacity for nothing. The key question is does it cost more, and if so is that the optimal way of increasing capacity for the money? If the same money would allow them to run an extra train each hour then that would be the best option.
I overheard a 20+ year career subway driver in Toronto talk about why he doesn't like the new trains. On weekends partiers often vomit in subway cars, and the smell used to be isolated to just the affected cars with the old train, but now the vomit rolls up and down the entire length of the train and the driver has to smell it for the entire duration of his/her shift. I can understand this concern and don't have a solution to offer, but personally I love the new trains. They have a subway map with lights showing which stations you've passed by, which one is next, where you're going, which side the door will open on, and all of the announcements seem to be pre recorded or computer generated. I don't have to struggle to understand what the foreign driver is saying. These trains are made by Bombadier, a Canadian company. I've seen these same trains in China (Bombadier). I wonder if NYC will get the same ones.
Can't be any worse than an articulated bus already deals with, and an articulated subway car isn't a lot more complicated in its joint. If anything the subway car should be easier to make, since it can be specially-designed for the track that it'll run on.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Paris has some very wicked curves and grades in its subway as well, and articulated cars are planned for a city-wide deployment within 5 - 10 years.
Make of that what you will.
Hint: articulated means precisely what it means - trains are able to curve almost 360 degrees.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Try to run an articulated car from Clark St to Chamber St. You'll find that NYC subway has some pretty wicked curves and grades (sometimes at the same time) which would tear apart trains like this.
There are articulated buses in many cities that can handle steeper grades and street corners with no problem. This shouldn't be an issue at all.
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
Most people - yes, even Wall Street - use public transit in NYC. The subway is way faster than a car. There is a reason that they are building a new 2nd Ave line, and it isn't for the poor people.
My issue with the trains is that we are in 2013 and they are still putting new cars out with conductors! Yes, a person paid (and paid more than a cop IIRC) to stand in a little booth and close the doors on the train. I won't even get into why they still have drivers, they can't even get rid of the conductor.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
isn't the whole point of individual cars so that when one goes bad or needs maintenance, you just disconnect it from the rest and attach something else? I'm sure you can do the same with articulated, but it's probably a lot more of a hassle. That or if you can't and they're all attached for life (like an articulated bus), that would mean any failure along the 8 (I'm assuming it's 8 in nyc) would send the entire train to the maintenance yard.
No one would want to sit on the articulated section anyways. The suspension between the two and the floor moving near where you're sitting would probably be unnerving to some.
... Which is the articulated train that we use is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Rocket
It's got more going for it than just being articulated. There are electronic signs that allow people not familiar with the subway system in Toronto to navigate the system better. Plus it's easier for those who have mobility issues.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Paris Metro has some pretty sharp curves too. Lines 2, 5 and now 9 are happily running MF01 stock, even with quite a few sharp curves (although the sharpest are only in use without passengers, e.g. the Porte Dauphine with its 25-m radius). Line 7bis has been running MF88 stock for a long time, and even if that stock is now considered a failure, the curves per se are not the problem. And 7bis has wicked sharp curves in operational uses (that was the reason for building MF88 in the first place!)
Other lines/stocks with sharp curves: Line 1 (MP05, Bastille), Line 14 (MP89CA), Line 4 (MP89CC, sharp curves especially at Porte d'Orleans former terminal, but also at Les Halles deviation).
Nowadays, even commuter trains use this configuration: Z50000 stock all over North & East suburbs, fantastic machines now the teething problems are over (the hardware was rushed for reelection reasons). Z50000 displays a quite interesting concept: "shorter-therefore-wider" cars, which also boost space.
Not going articulated on busy lines is displaying unhealthy ludditism nowadays.
...already articulated, they just don't have a flexible enclosure built around the articulation point.
I don't think that having the coupling area enclosed will make the entire train any less articulated than it is now.
They have conductors so people won't get stuck in the doors and dragged to their deaths.
They could make the doors automatic, and re-open when someone or one of their body parts is in the way of a door closing, which they do now, but without the conductor there to yell at people to get the hell in or out of the car, the trains would never, ever leave the station. There will always be that one last person trying to get in.
They have conductors so people won't get stuck in the doors and dragged to their deaths.
Were you in prison for 50 years or something? This is a solved problem.
They could make the doors automatic, and re-open when someone or one of their body parts is in the way of a door closing, which they do now, but without the conductor there to yell at people to get the hell in or out of the car, the trains would never, ever leave the station.
Why is this problem unique to NYC?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
without the conductor there to yell at people to get the hell in or out of the car, the trains would never, ever leave the station. There will always be that one last person trying to get in.
In London they have someone standing on the platform to do that (shout at people). They are in a much better position: they can see the whole train, and can walk along the platform if necessary.
Also, they're only at busier stations, and only when it's busy.
The subway operators in Berlin have decided for these long trains beacuse the manual labour and logistics needed to extend or shorten trains during the day is more expensive than just letting them roll.
"Is it friday yet?"
The whole NYC metro system is something I really cannot understand about the US. I haven't visited the whole world but NY city metro is by far the worst I have been, starting with the dirty station that includes God knows how many rats and the old equipment. Hell there are places in Latin America that have better stuff. Sure it has a lot of coverage and works 24/7 but either everybody else is doing something extraordinary or I don't know what's the deal.
So now seeing this whole 'debate' about whether to use articulated cars is like watching a discussion about the merits of the wheel to improve transportation. They really need to invest heavily into the system, especially in a city like NY where millions depend on the subway as their primary mean of transportation.
This is all bullshit. The one reason to articulated bogies, which is all we're talking about, is that you can cram more seats on each car, which means saving money. Please ignore the weird PR spin.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
Because there is nothing nerdier than arguing, in 2013, about what kind of train is the best. NOTHING.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Those tough talking weenies are always so amusing. "My neighborhood is the baddest in the world" but they've never been anywhere to compare it to.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Do you mean New York subway trains will be able to talk clearly and understandably?
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
A double-door system such as in Singapore would seem to address your concern.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
The London Underground has "dumb" automatic doors- that is, they slam close with considerable force and pay no attention to whether there are any limbs trapped in them. There are no conductors and rarely staff on the platform. Nobody ever seems to get dragged to their death. I think the doors have an "emergency release" on them for "being dragged to death" situations, but I'm not actually sure...
People are grown ups. I'm sure the inhabitants of New York, of all places, don't need to be treated like babies.