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New York City Considers Articulated Subway Cars
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Many of New York City's subway cars are well past their prime and due for fleet replacement, most strikingly those on the C line, known by their model number, R32, and for the tin-can siding that will continue rolling beneath Eighth Avenue for at least a few more years. Now the NYT reports that transit planners have urged the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to consider articulated subway cars for any future fleet upgrades. Articulated cars, already adopted in cities like Berlin, Paris, and Toronto, have no doors between cars, allowing unrestricted flow throughout the length of the train that could increase capacity by 8 percent to 10 percent. Adam Lisberg, the authority's chief spokesman, says that increased capacity could also improve 'dwell time' — the period during which a train is stopped in a station, often because of overcrowding — and allow more trains to run. 'We're one of the largest systems in the world that doesn't do it,' says Richard Barone, the director of transportation programs at the Regional Plan Association. 'Our trains don't function right now to allow people to circulate.' Articulation also has the benefit of making empty trains feel safer. By allowing passengers the ability to move between cars easily and to see passengers throughout the train, the isolation that can sometimes feel dangerous on a late-night subway is less of an issue, simply because the whole train is joined together like one huge car. But not everyone embraces the idea. Elizabeth Kubany who works in the Flatiron district, expressed a fondness for the current configuration, suggesting that the separated cars were more 'intimate' binding passenger to passenger in an increasingly antisocial age. Then she reconsidered. 'You don't really want to be intimate with people on the train.'"
The doors are there. The transit authority just doesn't allow people to use them because most people are too stupid to use them safely.
On Septa and Metro North you can move between cars while the train is stopped to facilitate boarding, and on Amtrak you can move between cars at will.
If it cost the same it would be a no-brainer ... increased capacity for nothing. The key question is does it cost more, and if so is that the optimal way of increasing capacity for the money? If the same money would allow them to run an extra train each hour then that would be the best option.
I overheard a 20+ year career subway driver in Toronto talk about why he doesn't like the new trains. On weekends partiers often vomit in subway cars, and the smell used to be isolated to just the affected cars with the old train, but now the vomit rolls up and down the entire length of the train and the driver has to smell it for the entire duration of his/her shift. I can understand this concern and don't have a solution to offer, but personally I love the new trains. They have a subway map with lights showing which stations you've passed by, which one is next, where you're going, which side the door will open on, and all of the announcements seem to be pre recorded or computer generated. I don't have to struggle to understand what the foreign driver is saying. These trains are made by Bombadier, a Canadian company. I've seen these same trains in China (Bombadier). I wonder if NYC will get the same ones.
Can't be any worse than an articulated bus already deals with, and an articulated subway car isn't a lot more complicated in its joint. If anything the subway car should be easier to make, since it can be specially-designed for the track that it'll run on.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Paris has some very wicked curves and grades in its subway as well, and articulated cars are planned for a city-wide deployment within 5 - 10 years.
Make of that what you will.
Hint: articulated means precisely what it means - trains are able to curve almost 360 degrees.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Most people - yes, even Wall Street - use public transit in NYC. The subway is way faster than a car. There is a reason that they are building a new 2nd Ave line, and it isn't for the poor people.
My issue with the trains is that we are in 2013 and they are still putting new cars out with conductors! Yes, a person paid (and paid more than a cop IIRC) to stand in a little booth and close the doors on the train. I won't even get into why they still have drivers, they can't even get rid of the conductor.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
... Which is the articulated train that we use is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Rocket
It's got more going for it than just being articulated. There are electronic signs that allow people not familiar with the subway system in Toronto to navigate the system better. Plus it's easier for those who have mobility issues.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
...already articulated, they just don't have a flexible enclosure built around the articulation point.
I don't think that having the coupling area enclosed will make the entire train any less articulated than it is now.
I have worked on the train lines in Singapore and I can tell you from first hand experience that this is not the case. The articulated train cars are no more hassle to connect or disconnect. Infact its easier during repairs. Also one of my most favorite places on the Singapore MRT car is the place where the two sections join. You can easily lean on the side and not as many people would walk past you when a station come as in the middle of the car. Its also less tiring for some reason. And no, its not just me, I have seen people rushing towards this spot when the train doors open and its apparent that all the seats are full.
They have conductors so people won't get stuck in the doors and dragged to their deaths.
Were you in prison for 50 years or something? This is a solved problem.
They could make the doors automatic, and re-open when someone or one of their body parts is in the way of a door closing, which they do now, but without the conductor there to yell at people to get the hell in or out of the car, the trains would never, ever leave the station.
Why is this problem unique to NYC?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
any failure along the 8 (I'm assuming it's 8 in nyc) would send the entire train to the maintenance yard.
That's going to happen anyway -- where else on a city metro system would you take apart a train?
But anyway, I don't think that's how trains are maintained any more. The carriages are unlikely to be uncoupled except in very rare circumstances (fire/accident, or infrequent maintenance). This article shows a small part of a lifting machine that is "able to raise a complete eight-car trainset" for London Underground. This The manufacturer has some better pictures, including whole high-speed trains (much longer).
No one would want to sit on the articulated section anyways. The suspension between the two and the floor moving near where you're sitting would probably be unnerving to some.
Every articulated train (and tram for that matter) that I've seen has only standing room in the articulated sections. There's usually a semicircular joint where the floor moves -- just don't stand on both sides of it :-)
without the conductor there to yell at people to get the hell in or out of the car, the trains would never, ever leave the station. There will always be that one last person trying to get in.
In London they have someone standing on the platform to do that (shout at people). They are in a much better position: they can see the whole train, and can walk along the platform if necessary.
Also, they're only at busier stations, and only when it's busy.
The subway operators in Berlin have decided for these long trains beacuse the manual labour and logistics needed to extend or shorten trains during the day is more expensive than just letting them roll.
"Is it friday yet?"
It's worse than you think. Transit in NYC is by far the best we have in the U.S., with only Chicago, Washington, Boston, LA, and at most a handful of other cities having anything that would be recognizable in the rest of the world as a metro system at all. Most parts of the Cleveland, Ohio area where I live do not have any public transportation at all, and even within city limits many places are served only by a bus running once every hour during the day, and not at all at night or weekends. For people who can afford to drive, transportation in the U.S. is great, but for anyone else, it sucks universes through nanotubes.
Nonaggression works!
"The deal" is that its the most extensive public transportation system in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ny_subway) and was built early in the 20th century. As it serves over 5 million riders a day you can't just shut it down and rebuild the whole thing for less than $50 billion and another $100 billion in economic impact. Especially considering it functions well for most people. Of course its dirty because it's old and serves one of the most densely populated regions on the planet. I'm sure you can find many cleaner systems throughout the world but not many (outside asia maybe) are as effective. Articulated cars seem like a good non disruptive improvement that's good for everyone except a few hipsters that will miss the nostalgia of the trains they've been riding since they moved to williamsburg 8 months ago.
Those tough talking weenies are always so amusing. "My neighborhood is the baddest in the world" but they've never been anywhere to compare it to.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br