Rental Business Aaron's Admits Role In Spying On Customers

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Rental Business Aaron's Admits Role In Spying On Customers

Posted by timothy on Thursday October 24, 2013 @02:29AM from the but-yer-honor-we-didn't-enjoy-it dept.

New submitter bhv writes "After firmly denying that it used software on its rent-to-own computers to spy on customers, including capturing passwords, sensitive financial information and images of private intimate moments, Atlanta-based Aaron's has owned up to the practice in a settlement with the Federal Trade Commission."

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All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 02:31 · Score: 0

who??
1. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 02:48 · Score: 0
  
  When I lived on the East coast of the US, I used to see "Aaron's rents furniture..." ads all the time. It never made sense to me because furniture isn't that expensive. Used furniture from the thrift was always a better deal. Maybe it made sense for offices renting in bulk; but they were definitely pitching to consumers too. Anyway, I digress. They're well known on the East coast; but I haven't seen any of their ads on California.
2. Re:All I can say to that is... by lordofthechia · 2013-10-24 03:06 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  It's a rent to own store and from a brief stint working in one (quite a few years ago) I can say that most of the clients were people who had bad credit and too poor or unable to save enough to buy *new* furniture/electronics outright.
  How it works? They take full MSRP (which usually gives you 100% markup) double *that* price then divide up into payments. So as an example a living room set with a $1500 MSRP (which probably cost them $700) would end up being $125 a month OR $57.70 a week (Easy Payments!). If the customer paid through the two years required to own it they would have paid $3000 for a couch they could have gotten for sale elsewhere for about $1200.
  The horrendous markup is more visible in electronics (a PS2 in it's day would have cost someone close to $1000 by the end of the year rent-to-own period).
  You are totally correct. The best situation for a consumer in that situation is to get furniture from either Goodwill, the Salvation Army, Craigslist, or the local newspaper classifieds. If they still want *new* furniture, then they can enjoy the used stuff till they save enough to buy what they really want outright (and re-sell the used item).
  Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
  
  --
  Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
3. Re:All I can say to that is... by g0bshiTe · 2013-10-24 03:13 · Score: 2
  
  Just another example of how some scheme up ways to take advantage of those than haven't any means.
  
  Another case of someone making their money off the class that can least afford to support themselves much less someone else.
  
  We still have those RtO centers here, I'm not surprised they do as well as they do. Personally until a year ago my family was using a tv I had gotten from my brother that he was going to throw out during a move because the vertical hold was gone. I took it home and replaced a $0.25 resistor and we used it for a bit over a year before we caught a flat screen Samsung on sale at Target for less than $200. Prior to that we had the tv we had purchased from Wally world when we got married 17 years ago, and it was working just fine.
  
  I've never really been one to have to have the latest and greatest gadgets, to me they are just gimmicks to separate you from your money for something you get convinced you can't live without. Of course that didn't apply to computers with me.
  
  --
  I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
4. Re:All I can say to that is... by dforreal · 2013-10-24 03:14 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  It serves a useful purpose, if you use it for a short term needs. When I was an undergraduate in upstate New York, the "College Housing" cartels charged more than double the market rate for furnished apartments with shorter-term leases. It made far more sense to rent an unfurnished apartment intended for the locals with a one year lease, and just pay the extra rent for the two months most of us weren't there in the summer. Since most 18-21 year olds don't own furniture, nor wanted to be responsible for moving / storing / dealing with it. we could annually rent a full living room set with a big television - no one was responsible for buying it, we didn't have to split up possessions between roommates at the end of the year, and splitting the cost of all of it between four guys for 8-10 months was reasonable. At the end of the academic term we would call up the rental company and have them pick it all up. Next fall, we'd get the latest and greatest for that year delivered and moved in. rinse and repeat.
5. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:21 · Score: 0
  
  Screw second hand furniture. You never know if there are bed bugs in them. Bed bugs don't infest just beds.
6. Re:All I can say to that is... by HornWumpus · 2013-10-24 03:31 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  A fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place.
  It's an immoral act to let a sucker keep his money.
  Until they force someone to rent from them they aren't doing anything wrong.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
7. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:32 · Score: 0
  
  There is a reason why people have made up statements like "buyer beware". It is each person's personal responsibility to make financial decisions for themselves. If it weren't for these poor decision-makers, these shops would not exist.
8. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:39 · Score: 0
  
  Don't buy anything upholstered used.
  Un-upholstered stuff is fine.
9. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:42 · Score: 0
  
  The best situation for a consumer in that situation is to get furniture from either Goodwill, the Salvation Army, Craigslist, or the local newspaper classifieds.
  or Freecycle. Most of my furniture was free. I am a pet owner, so I don't want or need nice furniture that would just be destroyed in short order. When I get tired of my existing shitty free furniture, I give it away for free again on Freecycle and have the new owners pick it up, or I just drag it into the back yard and set it on fire.
10. Re:All I can say to that is... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-10-24 03:47 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
  The public schools already teach this. My daughter is in high school, and she had the class last year. It is called "Life Skills". They learn to budget and invest. They write a resume, dress in business attire, and attend a mock job interview. They also learn to plan and cook meals using a budget and nutritional information. It is an elective class, but nearly everyone takes it (it is an easy A, plus you get to make and eat cookies).
  The problem is that some people are just fundamentally stupid and irresponsible. No amount of education is going to fix that. The main problem is that these people can vote, so their irresponsibility is inflicted on all of us. If you run up twice your disposable income in credit card debt to pay for useless bling, then why shouldn't the government do the same?
11. Re:All I can say to that is... by EvilSS · 2013-10-24 03:53 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  This is why all of my furniture is made from steel reinforced concrete. Sure, the pillows are a bit hard, but it's a small cost for peace of mind!
  
  --
  I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
12. Re:All I can say to that is... by lordofthechia · 2013-10-24 04:08 · Score: 2
  
  splitting the cost of all of it between four guys for 8-10 months was reasonable
  
  Seems reasonable. And for short term stuff (table for thanksgiving, big TV for Superbowl, bed for temporary guests, etc) it's fine. However the vast majority of people don't use it like this.
  That said at 8 months (and a usual term of 24 months Rent to Own) you've paid up 8/24 = 1/3rd of the inflated cost. So for my example of the living room set, you and your roommates would have paid $1000 of a $1500 (full retail) living room set. At 10 months you would have paid $1250 (sale price for the item at a regular furniture store).
  If you must have "new" stuff and you don't want to deal with selling/donating it at the end of the school year then it'll work. However if you don't mind used, you can furnish an entire (temporary/first) apartment for much less and make back some money at the end by re-selling or donating (and getting a tax break).
  As an example my roommate and I furnished our apartment with about $200 from the salvation army, $100 for my waterbed (no bed bugs!), and whatever he spent on his bed. The $200 from the Salvation Army got us a living room set, entertainment center, desks, second couch (we went during the weekend auctions). At the end we just re-donated the stuff.
  
  --
  Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
13. Re:All I can say to that is... by HornWumpus · 2013-10-24 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  Wrap them in a dark blanket and leave them in the sun for a day or three.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
14. Re:All I can say to that is... by mrchaotica · 2013-10-24 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  Not to mention, if you're paying for the extra 2 months on a regular 1 year lease on the apartment anyway, why not just buy the furniture and leave it there over the summer? Then, for bonus points, you can just renew the lease, keep living there next school year and not have to move in and out at all!
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
15. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:17 · Score: 0
  
  Just an FYI, while bed bugs do enjoy living in mattresses, they will very often take root in any crevice they can find, such as where wood joins on a hard sided waterbed, or even in the nooks and crannies of the wheels of a bedframe.
  I'd consider water beds bedbug resistant, but never bedbug proof. :)
16. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:18 · Score: 0
  
  I have honestly never heard of something like that before your post outside of people much older than I am talking about their high school home ec classes. It's great that your daughter's high school has such a class; I agree with the GP that everyone should have a class like that in high school or before.
17. Re:All I can say to that is... by DexterIsADog · 2013-10-24 04:23 · Score: 2
  
  Reminds me of the lyrics to "Good Times" theme song;
  Temporary lay offs. - Good Times.
  Easy credit rip offs. - Good Times.
  Scratchin’ and surviving. - Good Times.
  Hangin in a chow line - Good Times.
  Ain’t we lucky we got ‘em - Good Times.
18. Re:All I can say to that is... by dforreal · 2013-10-24 04:25 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  The whole point of not buying the furniture was to avoid the mess of having to donate/sell/move/divide/store it at the end of an academic year; the whole "who gets what" situation, since roommates usually changed from year to year (Someone graduates / gets sick of living with you etc). As a general rule the landlords would NOT renew leases from year to year once they realized you were actually a student since most of them also owned the aformentioned "Student Housing" where they could get quite the markup. I always managed to get a "locals" apartment initially by presenting an ID with an in-town address and showing a paystub from the pharmaceutical company I worked for part time. Was it legal for them to discriminate in this way? Probably not. Was it widespread, yes. At the end of the day, It worked for the three years I needed to play the game while living there.
19. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:56 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe it made sense for offices renting in bulk
  Businesses renting office furniture is pretty normal...they just don't rent from places like Aarons.
20. Re:All I can say to that is... by suutar · 2013-10-24 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  I wish I'd had that class. Mine went over how to read bank statements and balance a checkbook, but nothing about resumes, interviewing, nutrition...
21. Re:All I can say to that is... by vlpronj · 2013-10-24 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  I used to do summer programs with out-of-school youth, geared to help them get a job, and keep it loner than the average first job. One of the biggest things we did was wake them up to the "Real World". Shady salesmen, illegal interview questions, lots of roleplay stuff.
22. Re:All I can say to that is... by jxander · 2013-10-24 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  What about when a concerted effort is made to keep the fools foolish?
  Should we let the "suckers" starve to death, vis a vis Darwinism?
  Or should we work to cure their foolishness? Enlighten them to the error of their logic.
  
  --
  This signature is false.
23. Re:All I can say to that is... by niftymitch · 2013-10-24 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  ....snip....
  Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
  Yes.
  I might note that the financial shell games that schools and local
  governments play make me doubt that schools and local governments
  understand money and finances at all.
  I recently saw the below. Note how there was no mention of "your tax dollars".
  Note that the locals spending the money did not have to levy the tax but rather
  benefited from a larger taxation organization. Because the money is a 'grant'
  the only option is to spend. This spending at more than arms length makes
  it so very hard to budget and act responsibly. No wonder the national debt
  is beyond comprehension and beyond reform:
  The below quote is not from the previous poster but is from the local web....
  
  ....POLICE DEPARTMENT RECEIVES GRANT FOR SPECIAL TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND CRASH PREVENTION
  Activities that the grant will fund include:
  Specialized DUI and drugged driving training such as Standardized Field Sobriety Testing (SFST), Advanced Roadside Impaired Driving Enforcement (ARIDE), and Drug Recognition Evaluator (DRE).
  DUI Saturation Patrols
  Motorcycle safety enforcement
  Distracted driving enforcement
  Seat belt and child safety seat enforcement
  Speed, red light and stop sign enforcement
  Warrant service operations targeting multiple DUI offenders
  Compilation of DUI “Hot Sheets,” identifying worst-of-the-worst DUI offenders
  Stakeout operations to observe the “worst of the worst” repeat DUI offender probationers with suspended or revoked driver licenses
  Purchase of speed measuring and preliminary alcohol screening devices
  Funding for this program is from the California Office of Traffic Safety through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
  I might add that in war it is common to dehumanize the enemy and call them by some vilify-able
  arms length name. It seems to me that "grant" and other "program funding" names are being substituted to
  free those spending these often outrageous and large funds from the moral responsibility
  that they should be exercising. Further local elections do not have the reach to put an end to
  this shell game.
  Demand that ALL funds be accounted for and that local expenditures fully account
  for all expenses as if the money was local.
  
  --
  Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
24. Re:All I can say to that is... by niftymitch · 2013-10-24 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  While I can reply close to my previous post, toss this into "Google"
  "Specialized DUI and drugged driving training such as Standardized Field Sobriety Testing"
  I get +900 results consider that this short little letter is one of a thousand, perhaps thousands.
  
  --
  Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
25. Re:All I can say to that is... by cascadingstylesheet · 2013-10-24 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  If the customer paid through the two years required to own it they would have paid $3000 for a couch they could have gotten for sale elsewhere for about $1200.
  Except they couldn't have got it elsewhere because they couldn't pay $1200 all at once.
  Yeah, it's expensive to be poor. But it's still better than not being able to have stuff at all.
26. Re:All I can say to that is... by crakbone · 2013-10-24 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  I hope you don't live in an apartment.
27. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  A fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place.
  It's an immoral act to let a sucker keep his money.
  This is the reason, why Smith&Wesson beats four aces in poker, riiight?
  But it was long ago in far far west ...
28. Re:All I can say to that is... by Nyder · 2013-10-24 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  It serves a useful purpose, if you use it for a short term needs. When I was an undergraduate in upstate New York, the "College Housing" cartels charged more than double the market rate for furnished apartments with shorter-term leases. It made far more sense to rent an unfurnished apartment intended for the locals with a one year lease, and just pay the extra rent for the two months most of us weren't there in the summer. Since most 18-21 year olds don't own furniture, nor wanted to be responsible for moving / storing / dealing with it. we could annually rent a full living room set with a big television - no one was responsible for buying it, we didn't have to split up possessions between roommates at the end of the year, and splitting the cost of all of it between four guys for 8-10 months was reasonable. At the end of the academic term we would call up the rental company and have them pick it all up. Next fall, we'd get the latest and greatest for that year delivered and moved in. rinse and repeat.
  Nice. We'd rent a house, hit up the goodwill/classfied ads (no craigslist in those days), and not worry about it. Shit would get thrashed, would never be able to rent it, because we'd have to pay full price for it because it would be damaged. Why? Because we were a bunch of 18+ year olds, living on our own and had no adult supervision. We'd have parties, because, well it's college and that is what you do. TV? why, we were in college, if we weren't partying, we were maybe studying.
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
29. Re:All I can say to that is... by Nyder · 2013-10-24 07:38 · Score: 2
  
  This is why all of my furniture is made from steel reinforced concrete. Sure, the pillows are a bit hard, but it's a small cost for peace of mind!
  Sorry to hear that you are in county lock up.
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
30. Re:All I can say to that is... by Nyder · 2013-10-24 07:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
  The public schools already teach this. My daughter is in high school, and she had the class last year. It is called "Life Skills". They learn to budget and invest. They write a resume, dress in business attire, and attend a mock job interview. They also learn to plan and cook meals using a budget and nutritional information. It is an elective class, but nearly everyone takes it (it is an easy A, plus you get to make and eat cookies).
  The problem is that some people are just fundamentally stupid and irresponsible. No amount of education is going to fix that. The main problem is that these people can vote, so their irresponsibility is inflicted on all of us. If you run up twice your disposable income in credit card debt to pay for useless bling, then why shouldn't the government do the same?
  You can not learn enough "Life Skills" in a semester of school. It's shit your parents need to teach you growing up.
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
31. Re:All I can say to that is... by sjames · 2013-10-24 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  Other than sneaking voyeur photos of adults and children, banking details, various account passwords, etc.
  That and preying on the least financially savvy. Indeed, many people do find that to be morally wrong.
32. Re:All I can say to that is... by cheater512 · 2013-10-24 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  Some people can't be cured. In that case, yes let Darwin handle it.
33. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 10:08 · Score: 0
  
  Better yet, go to the gas stations and get the non-winning scratch-offs for entry into a rewards program.
  Free TV!
  I've seen it done.
34. Re:All I can say to that is... by JustOK · 2013-10-24 10:42 · Score: 1
  
  The sun is like 93 million miles away. That's a long trip to get rid of bed bugs.
  
  --
  rewriting history since 2109
35. Re:All I can say to that is... by HornWumpus · 2013-10-24 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  No better lesson then getting burned.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
36. Re:All I can say to that is... by davester666 · 2013-10-24 17:25 · Score: 1
  
  Ah yes, the old maxim "Everything is legal and proper to do until they close the cell door behind you."
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
37. Re:All I can say to that is... by tragedy · 2013-10-24 19:07 · Score: 1
  
  How it works? They take full MSRP (which usually gives you 100% markup) double *that* price then divide up into payments. So as an example a living room set with a $1500 MSRP (which probably cost them $700) would end up being $125 a month OR $57.70 a week (Easy Payments!). If the customer paid through the two years required to own it they would have paid $3000 for a couch they could have gotten for sale elsewhere for about $1200.
  That's horrific. If they can afford $57.70 (should that be $28.85?) a week or $125 a month, they should be buying really cheap used furniture and saving up for something nicer, not submitting to exploitation. The problem is obviously our appalling optimism bias. People look towards the future and say: "So what if it costs more, things are going to turn around and get so much better in the future that I'll just be able to pay this off and not worry about the extra cost."
38. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-25 01:54 · Score: 0
  
  It's an immoral act to let a sucker keep his money.
  You, sir, are a sociopath.
39. Re:All I can say to that is... by HornWumpus · 2013-10-25 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  Somebodies going to get it.
  Obviously, the highest utility is for me to get it.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
40. Re:All I can say to that is... by terrywirth5 · 2013-10-25 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  Borderline blaming the poors for the existence of exploiters like Aarons and payday-loan shylocks.
41. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-25 13:31 · Score: 0
  
  Those of us who have a little bit extra should try and look out for friends/relatives who are contemplating getting stuck in this kind of financial black hole. I just bought a working laptop with Windows XP for $40 on Ebay and that included the cost of shipping, only because when I saw the auction was almost ending, and there were no buyers, I was just curious to see what kind of junk I'd get for that price. It works, and I spent $30 later on computer memory from Crucial to make this thing extremely fast and useful. My plan is to give the laptop to a relative with no computer whose 12-year-old needs one for school. I priced a similar laptop, with almost the same specs, through a rent-to-own store chain in So Cal, and if you actually ask them for numbers, the people on the phone are totally honest. My $70 laptop would cost a rent-to-own buyer over $1000 by the time they were done paying for it.
Government hates competition... by mi · 2013-10-24 02:33 · Score: 1

I wonder, if the NSA (with their own bugs) has anonymously helped FTC prosecute this case the way they help ATF, DEA, and even local police prosecute theirs.

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
1. Re:Government hates competition... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:30 · Score: 0
  
  Ayn Rand was an evil, hateful hag. People who quote her are almost always ignorant to some of the tripe and hate she espoused. The right wing hold her up like some saviour. She should be denigrated for the witch that she was.
2. Re:Government hates competition... by Phreakiture · 2013-10-24 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  Prolly wanna turn down the squelch setting on your sarcasm detector a little . . . .
  
  --
  www.wavefront-av.com
3. Re:Government hates competition... by thunderclap · 2013-10-24 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  The right wing doesn't hold her up they hold up her fictional novel in the same way that several Hollywood actors hold up L. Ron Hubbards Fictional religion.
A settlement? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 02:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

I would do jail time if I tried to pull that shit.
1. Re:A settlement? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 02:56 · Score: 0
  
  On these sort of cases, corporations are not people.
2. Re:A settlement? by flogger · 2013-10-24 03:11 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Yes you would do time.
  
  because
  You are not the government.
  You are not a corporation.
  You are not wealthy enough to own lawyers.
  You are not wealthy enough to own politician.
  
  --
  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
  "First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
  -- The Doctor, "Doctor
3. Re:A settlement? by Alain+Williams · 2013-10-24 03:35 · Score: 2
  
  On these sort of cases, corporations are not people.
  But all the decisions and actions of a corporation will be decided/done by people. Whoever decided to install the spyware should be personally held liable and prosecuted. If no one will admit to it, then the company directors should carry the can.
4. Re:A settlement? by sjames · 2013-10-24 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  Jail time? You'd do that and then be a registered sex offender for activating the webcams.
5. Re:A settlement? by Bite+The+Pillow · 2013-10-24 17:38 · Score: 1
  
  If you operated a business and some of your franchisees did something you didn't know about? Because that is the "that shit" you're talking about.
  Franchisees got nailed, customers filed class action, Aarons had no defense due to prior suit.
  " September 2012 â" The Federal Trade Commission settles spying claims against the maker of PC Rental Agent, Designerware LLC, as well as seven of Aaronâ(TM)s rent-to-own franchisees. The settlement bars the software maker and the franchisees from further spying. Aaronâ(TM)s, itself, was not part of the FTC matter."
  Those are the facts as we know them. But let's pile on the corporations are bad bandwagon, because its more interesting to rehash conventional wisdom than have an original thought.
less sinister than the summary makes it out to be by schneidafunk · 2013-10-24 02:36 · Score: 1

Settlements are not admissions of guilt in the court of law, but certainly implies it. So the company added tracking software for this purpose: "The software was included on laptops and desktops so Aaron’s and its franchisees could recover unreturned computer equipment.". Granted it collected too much info.

--
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
First thing I do when I buy a new computer by areusche · 2013-10-24 02:38 · Score: 1

Whether it is some random PC or even a Mac, I always pop in the original OS disk and wipe it clean. I don't trust software that came from someplace other then me watching it install. Granted, the restore DVD probably isn't any safer, but it is the thought that counts!
1. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by DutchUncle · 2013-10-24 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  If these were "rental", people probably didn't have an original OS disk. And messing with the system like that would probably be considered a flag that someone was trying to steal it. At the very least, it would be against the lease, like modifying a leased car.
2. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Deadstick · 2013-10-24 02:49 · Score: 3
  
  IANAL, but "rent-to-own" seldom really functions as a rental; it's effectively an installment sales contract in which you pay more interest than your state allows on real installment loans, in return for having walk-away rights.
3. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 02:53 · Score: 0
  
  What a bunch of horseshit.
  A computer isn't an appliance with only an off and on switch. It is a multifunction tool and set of interfaces. Reloading the OS is totally legit, and the fact that the technology cartels make it difficult to reload (not providing a vanilla OS install media, and clean, non-vendorized drivers) is proof that they don't consider you a valuable customer.
  Always use dd to zero out the disk and then install from vanilla OS media. Get tools to change the license to use the ROM programmed OEM license if included in the hardware/software bundle (aka computer)
4. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Wycliffe · 2013-10-24 03:02 · Score: 3
  
  IANAL, but "rent-to-own" seldom really functions as a rental; it's effectively an installment sales contract in which you pay more interest than your state allows on real installment loans, in return for having walk-away rights.
  Although this is their target market, the "rent-to-own" purchases by the payday cash loan crowd, no sane people should
  ever use them to actually buy something as the price is usually double or more before you're finished.
  Using them as a rental is actually fairly reasonable though if you need furniture for a month or a big TV for a superbowl party.
5. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by tompaulco · 2013-10-24 03:05 · Score: 2
  
  IANAL, but "rent-to-own" seldom really functions as a rental; it's effectively an installment sales contract in which you pay more interest than your state allows on real installment loans, in return for having walk-away rights.
  Quite right. With the addition that when you miss one of the usury payments, they take the stuff back, often after you have paid several multiples of the retail price of the item.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
6. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by MightyMartian · 2013-10-24 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  I have copies of the OEM versions of Vista and Windows 7 Home variants downloaded from Digital River. I have reinstalled Windows on several Acer and HP machines from these discs. Yes, you have to phone the 1-800 number to activate them, but for five minutes out of my life I have a legit Windows box without crapware or spyware. Okay, I do have to track down drivers in most cases, but still, it's worth the effort.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
7. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by tompaulco · 2013-10-24 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  People who rent from Aaron's don't have the money to buy and maintain uninstalled legitimate versions of Windows.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
8. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Aryden · 2013-10-24 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  Same here, fragged the new dell laptop from windows 8 to windows 7 as a vanilla install and just plugged in the appropriate drivers. I do this for any and all friends/customers that want a cheap machine but dont want the bloatware.
9. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:35 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Apparently they weren't "rent-to-own" but rent-to-be-pwned.
10. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:37 · Score: 0
  
  What do you base that assumption on? It's actually not true. Its a popular viewpoint among people and politicians who do not like the industry, but have you ever actually looked into the outcomes of these rentals? http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1138&context=econ_fac
11. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:39 · Score: 0
  
  Do you realize that almost all states have mandatory reinstatement periods? California's for example is 1 year. If they take the stuff back, you have up to a year in CA to reinstate your account at where you were without losing any of the equity you had paid toward the goods.
12. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:13 · Score: 0
  
  Worse, they had a special chip installed to survive wipes and enable some of the advanced functionality. Hardware hack beats software hack each and every time.
13. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:16 · Score: 0
  
  I don't even use a restore CD or DVD, as it usually comes with the same crapware that likely is on the machine. I prefer to before anything else, boot an image utility, image off the drives (so I can replace it exactly as before), put the external drive with the images somewhere safe, boot DBAN and erase all the machine's drives thoroughly (this also helps with a burn-in and making sure the drives actually read/write.)
  I then throw on a separately licensed copy of Windows, load drivers, enable FDE encryption (BitLocker if Windows 8 or newer, TrueCrypt if Windows 7 or older), and go from there.
  If I need to turn the machine back in, a quick DBAN and reload of the original data makes anything stored on there inaccessible to any snoops barring a hardware device (KeyKatcher, etc.)
14. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by mrchaotica · 2013-10-24 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  Using them as a rental is actually fairly reasonable though if you need furniture for a month or a big TV for a superbowl party.
  Ironically, most of Aarons' customers would use Wal-Mart for that (i.e., they'd "buy" the TV the day before the Superbowl, return it the day after, and thus spend nothing on the "rental").
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
15. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by MightyMartian · 2013-10-24 04:40 · Score: 1
  
  I guess my point is that it didn't cost me anything, except a little time.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
16. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by tompaulco · 2013-10-24 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  Do you realize that almost all states have mandatory reinstatement periods? California's for example is 1 year. If they take the stuff back, you have up to a year in CA to reinstate your account at where you were without losing any of the equity you had paid toward the goods.
  Why, no I didn't know that. But then again, I don't buy from rent-to-own places.
  I'm sure it is noted in the small print somewhere, if state law also requires for them to inform the customer, but I would bet that they don't exactly call attention to that fact.
  
  --
  If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
17. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by egcagrac0 · 2013-10-24 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  The typical Rent-To-Own customer is not likely to know to do this, nor to have the skills to do this.
  Some of us will say that they deserve what they get for not hiring a professional to administer their personal computer, since they sure as hell don't know what they're doing.
18. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by __aarzwb9394 · 2013-10-24 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  This is not limited to those lower class people this topic is (rightly-ish) being snooty about.
  In upper middle market dept stores people buy expensive rugs for fancy house parties and then return them 3 days later as: "Not quite right for our new interior décor, unfortuantely."
  "It really was disappointing as it looked so wonderful here in the shop."
19. Re:First thing I do when I buy a new computer by antdude · 2013-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  Do you trust your original OS disk? :P
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Let me guess, no jail time by TWiTfan · 2013-10-24 02:46 · Score: 1

I wonder if I would get a simple fine if I systematically hacked into thousands of people's computers to watch "intimate moments."

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
1. Re:Let me guess, no jail time by CanHasDIY · 2013-10-24 02:52 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if I would get a simple fine if I systematically hacked into thousands of people's computers to watch "intimate moments."
  Go for it, and cite this settlement as precedent.
  Equal protection under the law, right?
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
2. Re:Let me guess, no jail time by binarylarry · 2013-10-24 03:02 · Score: 1
  
  Equal protection under equal money.
  Our legal system is a fucking scam.
  
  --
  Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
3. Re:Let me guess, no jail time by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  Settlements do not create precedent.
Go for broke by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2013-10-24 02:48 · Score: 1

Finance-charge heavy rent-to-own place that used spy techniques to get "images of private intimate moments"?
Looks like they figuratively have your balls in their hand two ways.

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
1. Re:Go for broke by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 07:34 · Score: 0
  
  Finance-charge heavy rent-to-own place that used spy techniques to get "images of private intimate moments"?
  Looks like they figuratively have your balls in their hand two ways.
  What if there were underage balls. Does it counts as child-porn? Is the minor also guilty of distributing child-porn?
Re:The fix for this is simple. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 02:49 · Score: 0

Silly rabbit, spying is for the NSA. I doubt they will dissolve themselves.
Incorporate by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 03:03 · Score: 1

“It’s a huge issue, and there hasn’t been enough case law to sort this out,” he said. “There is a lot of gray area about what should be done and what shouldn’t be done.”
So if an indivdual does the same activity, it's Computer Fraud and Abuse... Jail Time, banned from electronic devices, whole world turned up-side-down.
BUT, if your a corporation. nada. "Don't do it again" penality.
Only in America.
That's what they do by Mr+D+from+63 · 2013-10-24 03:05 · Score: 5, Informative

Aaron's and similar rental companies are built on taking advantage of lower income folks who are not good financial decision makers. While there is an element of that with many businesses, these rental companies take it to the extreme.
1. Re:That's what they do by amicusNYCL · 2013-10-24 04:37 · Score: 1
  
  I don't understand the business case for this particular brand of spying. I don't see how things like passwords and financial data are going to help them recover a computer that wasn't returned. I can understand the webcam used for taking pictures of who is using the computer, or screenshots for looking at things like their Facebook account to identify the person by name, but other than that it seems like a huge overreach with no legitimate business purpose.
  
  --
  "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
2. Re:That's what they do by Mr+D+from+63 · 2013-10-24 04:57 · Score: 2
  
  My guess is they purchased some software that had the ability to track the computers location so they could get them back, and they didn't really understand what else it did. While I hate these rental companies, I also sometimes hate the way these invasions of privacy are reported. The software may have had access to this information, but it might not have actually transmitted it anywhere. Its hard to tell from these reports what really happened. Whoever is selling this software maybe should have some accountability as well as Aaron's.
3. Re:That's what they do by bobbied · 2013-10-24 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  As I understand the companies position on this... You are about correct. They had specific software that they would install so that they could track, find and recover laptops from folks who where not paying for them or had stolen them. This is unlikely a problem if it is spelled out in the contract and ONLY used when the contract says it would be used. However, some of the company's franchisees, and/or their employees apparently found out that the software could do other things at other times and started to do use the software to collect information and photos for their personal enjoyment.
  So, they installed the software, but I figure that it was used for unintended purposes. They intended good, but they needed to control access to the tracking software a bit better.. Or perhaps they should have used different software that was a bit less capable...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
4. Re:That's what they do by almechist · 2013-10-25 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  Aaron's and similar rental companies are built on taking advantage of lower income folks who are not good financial decision makers. While there is an element of that with many businesses, these rental companies take it to the extreme.
  True, but low income doesn't necessarily mean stupid, and some of these people are smart enough to figure out how to turn the tables on exploitative rent-to-own operations. I knew a guy who would look for new rent-to-own stores, and when he found one he'd walk in and sign up for their very best home entertainment package, regardless of price, and have it shipped to his living room. He'd enjoy it for a few months, always being careful to pay in full and on time, but then, inevitably, some asshole would break into his place and steal the equipment. Hey, it's a high-crime neighborhood, what are you gonna do? These predatory rental operations make so much money they consider occasional break-ins part of the price of doing business. A police report gets filed, but the cops almost never do any real investigating with this kind of incident, after all, everything's fully insured. So my friend's drug dealer ends up with a great new home theater system, my friend's debt to the dealer is forgotten, and everybody's happy!
Can a rented PC install Linux? by Skapare · 2013-10-24 03:06 · Score: 1

Can a rented PC install Linux? Or have they modified it to keep its insecure spyware?

--
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
1. Re:Can a rented PC install Linux? by Aryden · 2013-10-24 03:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you can install linux. On desktops, they usually just put a lock on the case so that you can't modify the hardware but software wise, you can do pretty much anything you want.
2. Re:Can a rented PC install Linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, you can install linux. On desktops, they usually just put a lock on the case so that you can't modify the hardware but software wise, you can do pretty much anything you want.
  Isn't being smart enuf to know to install Linux being too smart to be screwed by Aaron's?
3. Re:Can a rented PC install Linux? by Skapare · 2013-10-24 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Or being smart enough to install Linux is being smart enough to exploit Aaron's.
  
  --
  now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
4. Re:Can a rented PC install Linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 09:35 · Score: 0
  
  Or just use a LiveUSB, or if necessary Lucid Puppy LiveCD with USB mounted for storage. That way you take your OS and files with you if/when you return the PC.
Restitution? by HalAtWork · 2013-10-24 03:06 · Score: 1

Are the FTC planning on compensating the victims with the acquired settlement? How do the victims get restitution?

--
Twinstiq, game news
1. Re:Restitution? by Aryden · 2013-10-24 03:19 · Score: 1
  
  No, there was no financial settlement here. The FTC is leaving that up to the class action suits
FREEZE! F.B.I.! by Thud457 · 2013-10-24 03:16 · Score: 1

RIPPED from TODAY'S HEADLINES

Some animals are more equal than others. This is my surprised face.

If corporations were really people, I would be able to end one by squeezing my fingers around it's throat.

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
and higher income idiots. rental place screws peop by raymorris · 2013-10-24 03:37 · Score: 1

I've seen some higher income people do this same idiocy, renting furniture and electronics
I have to laugh at this story. "Furniture rental store screws customers" - no shit.
manufacture and dissemination of child pornography by tannhaus · 2013-10-24 03:42 · Score: 1

So, they took photos with the webcam and even admit those photos include children. If even one of those children is in a state of undress, they took that picture and shared it with their franchisees, they should be busted for manufacture and dissemination of child pornography, because you know if that child did the same thing, those are the charges they would face.
Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by EMG+at+MU · 2013-10-24 03:51 · Score: 1

If I form a LLC and then commit crimes through that LLC, can I avoid any real punishment like corporations do? Like if I buy a car through my LLC, then I am "on the clock" when I'm driving home from the bar and get a DWI, can I just reach a "settlement" and walk away. I live in wisconsin so probably, DWIs are traffic tickets on your first offence.

When will people (as in the majority of people) start caring that there is a 2 class system of law in America, the haves and the have nots. Corporations and rich people dont go to jail.
1. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  It's not that simple. Here you have a scenario where a group of people made the decision to put this softawre on their rentals for legitimate reasons - to cut down on theft by being able to remotely disable or track these PC's.
  Then you have a second group of people figure out that they can use this software for nefarious purposes. It seems to me that if anyone should go to jail, it should be any individual who they can prove actually used this software in an illegal manner. The software itself isn't illegal, Aaron's put it on their property. I'm pretty certain that the agreement that the customers signed probably even mentioned the fact that the software exists.
  Do you really think that jailing the people at the top who decided to put the software on the systems is a fair outcome, or a reasonable way to handle these types of things? Should Aaron's be held financially liable? Absolutely. SHould they be fined? Absolutely.Throw an exec in jail because of this? Absolutely not
2. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by EMG+at+MU · 2013-10-24 04:27 · Score: 2
  
  Throw an exec in jail because of this? Absolutely not
  I guess I disagree. As a CEO you are responsible for the actions of your company. You sanctioned a plan to use software to recover your property and did not put adequate safeguards or training in place to prevent abuse of that software. As CEO you are responsible.
3. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by BurfCurse · 2013-10-24 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  I hear people say the exact same thing all the time and it scares me that people believe this. Do you really want to live in a society where you can be thrown in jail because someone, that you have limited control over, does something illegal without your knowledge? Yes, as a CEO you have a responsibility to know what your company is doing, but anyone who has ever worked for a large company knows the CEO has very little visibility into what most of a company's individual parts are doing, other than what his/her direct reports tell them.
4. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 05:55 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, they should go to jail because they did not think it through and take appropriate measures that any college freshman could see were needed.
5. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  So by that logic, would you throw car rental business CEO's in jail because someone got drunk in one of their cars and killed someone? That's not even speculation over what might happen, it has happened and will absolutely happen again.
6. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 06:53 · Score: 0
  
  A lot of people who haven ever been involved in making strategic decisions for a business think the CEO (or any executive for that matter) is an oracle that knows every minute detail of the operations of the business. That's simply not the case. In fact, it is not possible. I bet that the exec who made this decision had it pitched to him as "Hey, we have this software that costs $X per computer and will reduce write-offs by Y%". I bet that Aaron's legal department reviewed the possible legal issues and made recommendations. I'd bet that some department came up with rules for how to use it and so forth. How good these were, we don't know. I'm sure that many different areas of the organization collaborated to make this happen. Ultimately, the lack of controls in place are not to be blamed on any one individual person, but the organization as a whole.
  This is actually very similar to how engineering disasters occur. Generally, no particular persons failure leads to the disaster, but rather - it is caused by many small failures by a larger number of people. People die in these accidents, but you rarely see criminal prosecution. To do that you have to prove gross negligence, and that has a high burden of proof - and rightfully so. As the poster below noted, "Do you really want to live in a society where you can be thrown in jail because someone, that you have limited control over, does something illegal without your knowledge?" and I think that sums it up rather nicely.
7. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 06:54 · Score: 0
  
  Umm...but isnt that what they get paid the big bucks for? To be accountable and responsible? Does a CEO ever say -- "my company made this huge profit because this one guy did something no one had thought of...so I am giving all my stock options this year to him?". Nope...they take all the money and credit for a company's growth. Ergo, they take on the liability too. It cant be heads I win, tails you lose.
8. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by BurfCurse · 2013-10-24 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, so extend it to small business. Small landscaping company owner. One of his employees starts stealing from the property owners. Should the owner be liable for the loss? Absolutely. Should he be sent to jail? Absolutely not. What would be the point? He's not a criminal. This is a slippery slope, one that leads society into constant fear, with everyone assuming unavoidable liability.
9. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by n7ytd · 2013-10-24 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  I hear people say the exact same thing all the time and it scares me that people believe this. Do you really want to live in a society where you can be thrown in jail because someone, that you have limited control over, does something illegal without your knowledge?
  Yes, as a CEO you have a responsibility to know what your company is doing, but anyone who has ever worked for a large company knows the CEO has very little visibility into what most of a company's individual parts are doing, other than what his/her direct reports tell them.
  Maybe it wasn't the CEO, but at some level someone would have known what's going on. If not someone in a supervisor/management role, then some employee who was allegedly using company property to commit a crime. It wasn't Aaron's, Inc. that spied on people, it was a person who happened to be an employee of the company.
10. Re:Can I form a LLC and commit crimes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 09:41 · Score: 0
  
  I absolutely agree. If investigation turns up individuals who performed these acts, or were aware of them and did nothing to stop or report them, those individuals should be held criminally liable. But to say that the Aaron's execs should be thrown in jail because of this simply because they are the head of the company is idiotic.
it's a way of thinking... by schlachter · 2013-10-24 05:16 · Score: 1

it's instilled in us by our parent, friends, family, and community.
it's also common sense, so even those who don't get it from the above sources can reason their way through what they should be spending.
too many people just don't care, and live life on the edge, out of disregard for themselves, and the others that pick up the bill when the fall.

--
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
Is the settlement a tax by niftymitch · 2013-10-24 05:53 · Score: 1

Is the settlement a tax or do the individuals
and organizations wronged get compensated.
In the end some legal firm will make a killing.... Hmmm killing is illegal.

--
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
And now - the rest of the story by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 05:54 · Score: 0

A quick googling for Designware turned up their website (with an object error of some sort, only making me more suspicious of their role as coders) http://designerware.com/eSiteWay/Home.aspx. Their side of the story, which should be viewed as just that, painted an interesting saga of governments and lawyers in a money grab and full of fear mongering.
I went into this thinking that the software company was the bad guy. After reading their side, I wonder if it is a bit more, in Fletch's words, "Charcoal".
1. Re:And now - the rest of the story by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 07:18 · Score: 0
  
  An excellent read. If the claims made here are generally accurate, this sounds like a government and private attorney shakedown that killed a company (and, presumably, jobs - albeit, it probably created some low skill jobs in the legal profession keeping some incompetent lawyers and paralegals off of welfare).
  A clear story in government overreach as well as the need for tort reform.
Misquoted by n7ytd · 2013-10-24 08:29 · Score: 1

From TFA:

In the settlement agreement, Aaron’s did not admit or deny the allegations.
That's a LONG way from "Aaron's has owned up to the practice" which the summary claims or the "Aaron's admits role in spying on customers" of the headline.
This was a settlement, which meant they chose to pay $X rather than risk $(X+Y) at a trial.
Re:less sinister than the summary makes it out to by sjames · 2013-10-24 08:34 · Score: 1

And did so without regard to payment status. And they activated the webcams.
IF they had confined that exclusively to cases where the rental was past due or lapsed strictly for the purpose of recovering the equipment, it would be a bit less sinister.
Everyone's a Lucky Dog at Aaron's! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-10-24 08:53 · Score: 0

And you'll be treated no better.
Re:less sinister than the summary makes it out to by schneidafunk · 2013-10-25 01:11 · Score: 1

They activated webcams? I didn't see that in the article, and WOW is that crossing a line. I take back my original comment.

--
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin