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Rental Business Aaron's Admits Role In Spying On Customers
New submitter bhv writes "After firmly denying that it used software on its rent-to-own computers to spy on customers, including capturing passwords, sensitive financial information and images of private intimate moments, Atlanta-based Aaron's has owned up to the practice in a settlement with the Federal Trade Commission."
I wonder, if the NSA (with their own bugs) has anonymously helped FTC prosecute this case the way they help ATF, DEA, and even local police prosecute theirs.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I would do jail time if I tried to pull that shit.
Settlements are not admissions of guilt in the court of law, but certainly implies it. So the company added tracking software for this purpose: "The software was included on laptops and desktops so Aaron’s and its franchisees could recover unreturned computer equipment.". Granted it collected too much info.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
Whether it is some random PC or even a Mac, I always pop in the original OS disk and wipe it clean. I don't trust software that came from someplace other then me watching it install. Granted, the restore DVD probably isn't any safer, but it is the thought that counts!
I wonder if I would get a simple fine if I systematically hacked into thousands of people's computers to watch "intimate moments."
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Finance-charge heavy rent-to-own place that used spy techniques to get "images of private intimate moments"?
Looks like they figuratively have your balls in their hand two ways.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
“It’s a huge issue, and there hasn’t been enough case law to sort this out,” he said. “There is a lot of gray area about what should be done and what shouldn’t be done.”
So if an indivdual does the same activity, it's Computer Fraud and Abuse... Jail Time, banned from electronic devices, whole world turned up-side-down.
BUT, if your a corporation. nada. "Don't do it again" penality.
Only in America.
Aaron's and similar rental companies are built on taking advantage of lower income folks who are not good financial decision makers. While there is an element of that with many businesses, these rental companies take it to the extreme.
It's a rent to own store and from a brief stint working in one (quite a few years ago) I can say that most of the clients were people who had bad credit and too poor or unable to save enough to buy *new* furniture/electronics outright.
How it works? They take full MSRP (which usually gives you 100% markup) double *that* price then divide up into payments. So as an example a living room set with a $1500 MSRP (which probably cost them $700) would end up being $125 a month OR $57.70 a week (Easy Payments!). If the customer paid through the two years required to own it they would have paid $3000 for a couch they could have gotten for sale elsewhere for about $1200.
The horrendous markup is more visible in electronics (a PS2 in it's day would have cost someone close to $1000 by the end of the year rent-to-own period).
You are totally correct. The best situation for a consumer in that situation is to get furniture from either Goodwill, the Salvation Army, Craigslist, or the local newspaper classifieds. If they still want *new* furniture, then they can enjoy the used stuff till they save enough to buy what they really want outright (and re-sell the used item).
Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Can a rented PC install Linux? Or have they modified it to keep its insecure spyware?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Are the FTC planning on compensating the victims with the acquired settlement? How do the victims get restitution?
Twinstiq, game news
Just another example of how some scheme up ways to take advantage of those than haven't any means.
Another case of someone making their money off the class that can least afford to support themselves much less someone else.
We still have those RtO centers here, I'm not surprised they do as well as they do. Personally until a year ago my family was using a tv I had gotten from my brother that he was going to throw out during a move because the vertical hold was gone. I took it home and replaced a $0.25 resistor and we used it for a bit over a year before we caught a flat screen Samsung on sale at Target for less than $200. Prior to that we had the tv we had purchased from Wally world when we got married 17 years ago, and it was working just fine.
I've never really been one to have to have the latest and greatest gadgets, to me they are just gimmicks to separate you from your money for something you get convinced you can't live without. Of course that didn't apply to computers with me.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
It serves a useful purpose, if you use it for a short term needs. When I was an undergraduate in upstate New York, the "College Housing" cartels charged more than double the market rate for furnished apartments with shorter-term leases. It made far more sense to rent an unfurnished apartment intended for the locals with a one year lease, and just pay the extra rent for the two months most of us weren't there in the summer. Since most 18-21 year olds don't own furniture, nor wanted to be responsible for moving / storing / dealing with it. we could annually rent a full living room set with a big television - no one was responsible for buying it, we didn't have to split up possessions between roommates at the end of the year, and splitting the cost of all of it between four guys for 8-10 months was reasonable. At the end of the academic term we would call up the rental company and have them pick it all up. Next fall, we'd get the latest and greatest for that year delivered and moved in. rinse and repeat.
RIPPED from TODAY'S HEADLINES
Some animals are more equal than others. This is my surprised face.
If corporations were really people, I would be able to end one by squeezing my fingers around it's throat.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
A fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place.
It's an immoral act to let a sucker keep his money.
Until they force someone to rent from them they aren't doing anything wrong.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I've seen some higher income people do this same idiocy, renting furniture and electronics
I have to laugh at this story. "Furniture rental store screws customers" - no shit.
So, they took photos with the webcam and even admit those photos include children. If even one of those children is in a state of undress, they took that picture and shared it with their franchisees, they should be busted for manufacture and dissemination of child pornography, because you know if that child did the same thing, those are the charges they would face.
Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
The public schools already teach this. My daughter is in high school, and she had the class last year. It is called "Life Skills". They learn to budget and invest. They write a resume, dress in business attire, and attend a mock job interview. They also learn to plan and cook meals using a budget and nutritional information. It is an elective class, but nearly everyone takes it (it is an easy A, plus you get to make and eat cookies).
The problem is that some people are just fundamentally stupid and irresponsible. No amount of education is going to fix that. The main problem is that these people can vote, so their irresponsibility is inflicted on all of us. If you run up twice your disposable income in credit card debt to pay for useless bling, then why shouldn't the government do the same?
If I form a LLC and then commit crimes through that LLC, can I avoid any real punishment like corporations do? Like if I buy a car through my LLC, then I am "on the clock" when I'm driving home from the bar and get a DWI, can I just reach a "settlement" and walk away. I live in wisconsin so probably, DWIs are traffic tickets on your first offence.
When will people (as in the majority of people) start caring that there is a 2 class system of law in America, the haves and the have nots. Corporations and rich people dont go to jail.
This is why all of my furniture is made from steel reinforced concrete. Sure, the pillows are a bit hard, but it's a small cost for peace of mind!
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
splitting the cost of all of it between four guys for 8-10 months was reasonable
Seems reasonable. And for short term stuff (table for thanksgiving, big TV for Superbowl, bed for temporary guests, etc) it's fine. However the vast majority of people don't use it like this.
That said at 8 months (and a usual term of 24 months Rent to Own) you've paid up 8/24 = 1/3rd of the inflated cost. So for my example of the living room set, you and your roommates would have paid $1000 of a $1500 (full retail) living room set. At 10 months you would have paid $1250 (sale price for the item at a regular furniture store).
If you must have "new" stuff and you don't want to deal with selling/donating it at the end of the school year then it'll work. However if you don't mind used, you can furnish an entire (temporary/first) apartment for much less and make back some money at the end by re-selling or donating (and getting a tax break).
As an example my roommate and I furnished our apartment with about $200 from the salvation army, $100 for my waterbed (no bed bugs!), and whatever he spent on his bed. The $200 from the Salvation Army got us a living room set, entertainment center, desks, second couch (we went during the weekend auctions). At the end we just re-donated the stuff.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Wrap them in a dark blanket and leave them in the sun for a day or three.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Not to mention, if you're paying for the extra 2 months on a regular 1 year lease on the apartment anyway, why not just buy the furniture and leave it there over the summer? Then, for bonus points, you can just renew the lease, keep living there next school year and not have to move in and out at all!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Reminds me of the lyrics to "Good Times" theme song;
Temporary lay offs. - Good Times.
Easy credit rip offs. - Good Times.
Scratchin’ and surviving. - Good Times.
Hangin in a chow line - Good Times.
Ain’t we lucky we got ‘em - Good Times.
The whole point of not buying the furniture was to avoid the mess of having to donate/sell/move/divide/store it at the end of an academic year; the whole "who gets what" situation, since roommates usually changed from year to year (Someone graduates / gets sick of living with you etc). As a general rule the landlords would NOT renew leases from year to year once they realized you were actually a student since most of them also owned the aformentioned "Student Housing" where they could get quite the markup. I always managed to get a "locals" apartment initially by presenting an ID with an in-town address and showing a paystub from the pharmaceutical company I worked for part time. Was it legal for them to discriminate in this way? Probably not. Was it widespread, yes. At the end of the day, It worked for the three years I needed to play the game while living there.
I wish I'd had that class. Mine went over how to read bank statements and balance a checkbook, but nothing about resumes, interviewing, nutrition...
it's instilled in us by our parent, friends, family, and community.
it's also common sense, so even those who don't get it from the above sources can reason their way through what they should be spending.
too many people just don't care, and live life on the edge, out of disregard for themselves, and the others that pick up the bill when the fall.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
I used to do summer programs with out-of-school youth, geared to help them get a job, and keep it loner than the average first job. One of the biggest things we did was wake them up to the "Real World". Shady salesmen, illegal interview questions, lots of roleplay stuff.
Is the settlement a tax or do the individuals
and organizations wronged get compensated.
In the end some legal firm will make a killing.... Hmmm killing is illegal.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Should we let the "suckers" starve to death, vis a vis Darwinism?
Or should we work to cure their foolishness? Enlighten them to the error of their logic.
This signature is false.
....snip....
Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
Yes.
I might note that the financial shell games that schools and local
governments play make me doubt that schools and local governments
understand money and finances at all.
I recently saw the below. Note how there was no mention of "your tax dollars".
Note that the locals spending the money did not have to levy the tax but rather
benefited from a larger taxation organization. Because the money is a 'grant'
the only option is to spend. This spending at more than arms length makes
it so very hard to budget and act responsibly. No wonder the national debt
is beyond comprehension and beyond reform:
The below quote is not from the previous poster but is from the local web....
....POLICE DEPARTMENT RECEIVES GRANT FOR SPECIAL TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND CRASH PREVENTION
Activities that the grant will fund include:
Specialized DUI and drugged driving training such as Standardized Field Sobriety Testing (SFST), Advanced Roadside Impaired Driving Enforcement (ARIDE), and Drug Recognition Evaluator (DRE).
DUI Saturation Patrols
Motorcycle safety enforcement
Distracted driving enforcement
Seat belt and child safety seat enforcement
Speed, red light and stop sign enforcement
Warrant service operations targeting multiple DUI offenders
Compilation of DUI “Hot Sheets,” identifying worst-of-the-worst DUI offenders
Stakeout operations to observe the “worst of the worst” repeat DUI offender probationers with suspended or revoked driver licenses
Purchase of speed measuring and preliminary alcohol screening devices
Funding for this program is from the California Office of Traffic Safety through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
I might add that in war it is common to dehumanize the enemy and call them by some vilify-able
arms length name. It seems to me that "grant" and other "program funding" names are being substituted to
free those spending these often outrageous and large funds from the moral responsibility
that they should be exercising. Further local elections do not have the reach to put an end to
this shell game.
Demand that ALL funds be accounted for and that local expenditures fully account
for all expenses as if the money was local.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
While I can reply close to my previous post, toss this into "Google"
"Specialized DUI and drugged driving training such as Standardized Field Sobriety Testing"
I get +900 results consider that this short little letter is one of a thousand, perhaps thousands.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
If the customer paid through the two years required to own it they would have paid $3000 for a couch they could have gotten for sale elsewhere for about $1200.
Except they couldn't have got it elsewhere because they couldn't pay $1200 all at once.
Yeah, it's expensive to be poor. But it's still better than not being able to have stuff at all.
I hope you don't live in an apartment.
It serves a useful purpose, if you use it for a short term needs. When I was an undergraduate in upstate New York, the "College Housing" cartels charged more than double the market rate for furnished apartments with shorter-term leases. It made far more sense to rent an unfurnished apartment intended for the locals with a one year lease, and just pay the extra rent for the two months most of us weren't there in the summer. Since most 18-21 year olds don't own furniture, nor wanted to be responsible for moving / storing / dealing with it. we could annually rent a full living room set with a big television - no one was responsible for buying it, we didn't have to split up possessions between roommates at the end of the year, and splitting the cost of all of it between four guys for 8-10 months was reasonable. At the end of the academic term we would call up the rental company and have them pick it all up. Next fall, we'd get the latest and greatest for that year delivered and moved in. rinse and repeat.
Nice. We'd rent a house, hit up the goodwill/classfied ads (no craigslist in those days), and not worry about it. Shit would get thrashed, would never be able to rent it, because we'd have to pay full price for it because it would be damaged. Why? Because we were a bunch of 18+ year olds, living on our own and had no adult supervision. We'd have parties, because, well it's college and that is what you do. TV? why, we were in college, if we weren't partying, we were maybe studying.
Be seeing you...
This is why all of my furniture is made from steel reinforced concrete. Sure, the pillows are a bit hard, but it's a small cost for peace of mind!
Sorry to hear that you are in county lock up.
Be seeing you...
Working that job made me realize that schools *must* have a personal finances class which goes over budgeting, avoiding scams, and setting up an affordable household.
The public schools already teach this. My daughter is in high school, and she had the class last year. It is called "Life Skills". They learn to budget and invest. They write a resume, dress in business attire, and attend a mock job interview. They also learn to plan and cook meals using a budget and nutritional information. It is an elective class, but nearly everyone takes it (it is an easy A, plus you get to make and eat cookies).
The problem is that some people are just fundamentally stupid and irresponsible. No amount of education is going to fix that. The main problem is that these people can vote, so their irresponsibility is inflicted on all of us. If you run up twice your disposable income in credit card debt to pay for useless bling, then why shouldn't the government do the same?
You can not learn enough "Life Skills" in a semester of school. It's shit your parents need to teach you growing up.
Be seeing you...
Other than sneaking voyeur photos of adults and children, banking details, various account passwords, etc.
That and preying on the least financially savvy. Indeed, many people do find that to be morally wrong.
From TFA:
That's a LONG way from "Aaron's has owned up to the practice" which the summary claims or the "Aaron's admits role in spying on customers" of the headline.
This was a settlement, which meant they chose to pay $X rather than risk $(X+Y) at a trial.
And did so without regard to payment status. And they activated the webcams.
IF they had confined that exclusively to cases where the rental was past due or lapsed strictly for the purpose of recovering the equipment, it would be a bit less sinister.
Some people can't be cured. In that case, yes let Darwin handle it.
The sun is like 93 million miles away. That's a long trip to get rid of bed bugs.
rewriting history since 2109
No better lesson then getting burned.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Ah yes, the old maxim "Everything is legal and proper to do until they close the cell door behind you."
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
How it works? They take full MSRP (which usually gives you 100% markup) double *that* price then divide up into payments. So as an example a living room set with a $1500 MSRP (which probably cost them $700) would end up being $125 a month OR $57.70 a week (Easy Payments!). If the customer paid through the two years required to own it they would have paid $3000 for a couch they could have gotten for sale elsewhere for about $1200.
That's horrific. If they can afford $57.70 (should that be $28.85?) a week or $125 a month, they should be buying really cheap used furniture and saving up for something nicer, not submitting to exploitation. The problem is obviously our appalling optimism bias. People look towards the future and say: "So what if it costs more, things are going to turn around and get so much better in the future that I'll just be able to pay this off and not worry about the extra cost."
They activated webcams? I didn't see that in the article, and WOW is that crossing a line. I take back my original comment.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
Somebodies going to get it.
Obviously, the highest utility is for me to get it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Borderline blaming the poors for the existence of exploiters like Aarons and payday-loan shylocks.