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20-Somethings Think It's OK To Text and Answer Calls In Business Meetings

RichDiesal writes "In an upcoming article in Business Communication Quarterly, researchers found that more than half of 20-somethings believe it appropriate to read texts during formal business meetings, whereas only 16% of workers 40+ believe the same thing. 34% of 20-somethings believe it appropriate to answer the phone in the middle of a meeting (i.e., not excusing yourself to answer the phone — answering and talking mid-meeting!). It is unclear if this is happening because more younger workers grew up with mobile technology, or if it's because older workers have the experience to know that answering a call in the middle of a meeting is a terrible idea. So if you're a younger worker, consider leaving your phone alone in meetings to avoid annoying your coworkers. And if you're an older worker annoyed at what you believe to be rude behavior, just remember, it's not you – it's them!"

81 of 453 comments (clear)

  1. Kids today... by ThomasBHardy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Kids today got respect!

    Oh and GET OFF MY LAWN!

    Hey wait, can you come back and show me how this new phone works?

    --
    Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
  2. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of upper management is on their crackberry when anything remotely technical pops up in a meeting.

    1. Re:I call BS by SpaceGhost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have to agree. Very few meetings would keep me from monitoring my email, being a tech lead you have to keep on top of things, and the excuse "well,I was in a meeting" means nothing if the department has lost connectivity. Monitoring or responding to social communications is not included, and even a call from the CEO would be taken outside the room. The balance is are you being responsive to your positions demands vs. ignoring them and being involved in non-work conversations, while being able to participate in the meeting so as to contribute as appropriate and retain or record information as needed.

    2. Re:I call BS by slartibartfastatp · · Score: 2

      Yes. I attended meetings of the board of directors and it's normal behaviour to text. Detail, the average age of this board is above 40.

      If you answer a call, it better be important but people will understand

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      -- --
    3. Re:I call BS by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most of upper management is on their crackberry when anything remotely technical pops up in a meeting.

      And there is nothing wrong with that. Checking their messages should not bother anyone else, so if they are not getting anything from the discussion, at least they are getting something else productive done. Even better is to have a policy that anyone can excuse themselves from a meeting anytime they have nothing to contribute or gain from staying. If you are talking in a meeting, and you notice lots of people checking their phones, maybe you should stop droning on and learn to be more concise.

    4. Re:I call BS by jythie · · Score: 2

      I had a similar thought. I have found that while people need to exercise discretion in how they handle incoming texts/messages/etc, depending on what one's role in a company is there can often be an expectation that one will keep an eye on people trying to get a hold of them in case something is blowing up. PMs, leads, managers, support people, all of them might need to keep an ear to the ground in case something time critical comes up that would preempt the meeting.

    5. Re:I call BS by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most of upper management is on their crackberry when anything remotely technical pops up in a meeting.

      I think the primary problem is "meeting" is undefined.

      For a 2-person meeting (i.e., you and someone else), I think it's completely rude to text with a third person (that includes crackberries) - a one-on-one is a rare enough event that the person you're with should get your full attention. The rules get relaxed in more informal situations, but a formal business meeting with your boss, or your client, or whatever, no.

      For small group meetings, I suppose it's OK as long as it's not distracting. Especially if you're not really needed or not participating much. If you're a critical speaker, then don't waste everyone else's time by answering texts while everyone's waiting on you.

      For larger meetings, fine go along with it - half the people there already are. Just be cognizant of people around you and move to the back or something so you disturb less people.

      Yes, it's different rules for different situations. In small settings, no, it's completely a bad idea. In larger settings, it doesn't matter so much. If you want to play Angry Birds, go for it, as long as those around you aren't disturbed.

    6. Re:I call BS by cusco · · Score: 2

      There's this ancient business tradition where in an emergency technical staff can be called out of a meeting. Your company should try it some time. It actually works pretty well.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  3. Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by gauauu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe the young kids have just figured out what the older generations haven't, which is that meetings are often a life-draining waste of time? They could be answering their phones in passive-aggressive protest of being locked up wasting their time in a conference room. </snark>

    1. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Spiked_Three · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are only a waste of time because of people who arrive late, do not prepare, and spend too much time babbling about stuff that is unimportant.

      Meeting can and should be about collaboration, with group participation, and getting something done. If you can not get that out of a meeting, fire the participants.

      --
      slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    2. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No meetings are about powerpoint, useless droning on and wasting everyone's time. Meetings are the alternative to work for the people who schedule them.

      None of us is as dumb as all of us.

    3. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good meetings and committees have a good chairperson.

      A good chairperson makes achievable goals, gives out assignments, and keeps discussions on task. He or she checks that assignments are done and makes reports of progress with measurable results.

      A bad chairperson lets participants ramble and never checks to see that anyone accomplishes anything.

      So when you say you go to bad meetings, what you're saying is that you have a bad chairperson.

    4. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Spiked_Three · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ever hear the phrase 'the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing' ?

      Something tells me you are an expert at it's implementation.

      Nothing of any significance gets built without chopping it up into smaller pieces and distributing the work. If you think that it is magically going to work together you are crazy. Smart meetings are the ones that pick the leaders and allow them to discuss and agree on an approach.

      I will agree dragging some low life insignificant code writer into them is probably a waste of everyone's time. It is more often done to try and prevent them from whining about how something was decided on later. "Who's the idiot that came up with this?" - harder to say that when you were involved. The point being if you are dragged into a meeting, it is probably because you are a 'leader' or a 'whiner'. At least that has been my experience.

      --
      slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
    5. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by just_another_sean · · Score: 2

      I agree that meetings can potentially be as you described but a potential major waste of everyone's time in a meeting would be sitting and waiting for so and so to get off their damn phone.

      I'm over 40 - here's my take: the texting? No problem. You may miss something in the middle of paying more attention to the phone than the current speaker but you're not really disrupting anyone else. A phone call? No way, people can not tune you out and the noise you are generating is unacceptable.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    6. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 2

      goals, assignments, tasks, and progress are all things can occur 1 on 1. I assume your not talking about chairperson in a 1 on 1 meeting. Typically the only meetings I find valuable are the following: question/answer sessions with an expert, code reviews, and "no one leaves till the problem is fixed"

    7. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by intermodal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I may not be a cell-phone-in-a-business-meeting guy, but I am firmly of the opinion that the more of someone's time you waste while holding a meeting, the more likely people are to find something else to do while attending.

      Most people who hold "meetings" in today's business world confuse meeting with lectures and slideshows.

      Watch anything where a meeting takes place from your grandparents' generation. Someone is in charge, someone is taking down the minutes, the presentations are quick, efficient, and unembellished beyond what is effective. There is an agenda, and it is adhered to. If it is not on the agenda, it can wait until another meeting, or be discussed during new business. Everyone is expected to bring something other than their body to the meeting, and everyone gets an opportunity to contribute.

      Go to an average meeting today. At almost every job I've had, what is called a meeting is really a "this should have been a brief email" coupled with "your input is only desired if you agree with me".

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    8. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by msobkow · · Score: 2

      There is also this little issue of on-the-job training. If the design decisions are made in meetings, and the juniors are exposed to those decisions, hopefully they'll learn about what goes into those decisions and the decision making process.

      But if they're busy crusing crackbook on their cell phone instead of paying attention, they're not going to learn shit. They're insulting everyone else and doing themselves a disservice by not paying attention.

      90% of life is boring. Get used to it, and pay attention anyhow!

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    9. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Agent0013 · · Score: 2

      You won't get anything done in an hour if I only check my email twice a day!

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      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    10. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I have seen meetings clear up issues that a week of email could not. There are so many people who think their time is too important to actually read through all the emails, or who didn't understand the emails, etc. You can often tell when this is going to happen because emails keep asking things that have already been answered; then a meeting gets called, everyone is there in the room, a discussion is held in person, and things get decided. Sometimes these meetings pull together multiple email threads and it's the first time many participants get to see the big picture, and suddenly someone has a big insight.

    11. Re:Or maybe the young folks just hate meetings? by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2

      Maybe you have never worked on complex projects where it is important that everyone is on the same page, and where consensus has to be reached.

      It is basic maths. 2 people knowing what each are doing takes one meeting, 3 would take 3 meetings, 4 would take 6 meetings and 5 would take 10 meetings. Your way just doesn't scale. Oh and that assumes that the second person you talk to doesn't require you to go back to the first.

  4. Depends on how boring the meeting is... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2
    For me, taking calls is ok (but you get up, and talk outisde the door) if it's a work related call (on your work phone). That's why your employer issued you a mobile or DECT phone, after all...

    Texting, (and e-mailing, and web surfing, and just letting your thoughts drift) is ok if the meeting is boring enough :-) At our place of work lots of people do this, even older ones, if the meeting's dullness justifies it... (and can be construed as a discrete way of letting the chairperson know..., hehe)

  5. Pfft. by dtmos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most 50- and 60-somethings I know think it's OK, too.

    1. Re:Pfft. by cellocgw · · Score: 2

      "Me, too." I see exactly zero correlation between age and use of phone/laptop during meetings. Part of it is boredom, and part of it is people's belief that they're too important to pay attention to the meeting itself. -- but I do agree that there are way too many meetings in my company.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  6. It's not them, it's them? by reve_etrange · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ignoring any potential objective effects, wouldn't it make more sense to state, "if you're an older worker, remember that they aren't trying to be rude?" And then, maybe to say something, instead of judging silently?

    Basically the assumptions that the "correct" standard of behavior belongs solely to a certain group, and that others should be expected to be a priori aware of others opinions absent communication, are critically flawed.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
    1. Re:It's not them, it's them? by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Texting and msking calls shows you are paying attention to something other than the meeting and/or the contents of the meeting. Most people would consider that rude.

  7. Is this a surprise? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Part of the list of things I go over with my new hires is basic business etiquette. I spend at least an hour per employee on it. The most annoying thing I find is people who have a mother/father/significant other who expect them to always answer the cell phone when they call it. My experience is that a lot of people we hire have never worked in a professional atmosphere before... I'm not sure if this is because of our hiring practices, or is because of the general habits of today's younger workforce. If I am in a meeting I scheduled, and someone my rank or lower answers their phone, I almost always immediately end the meeting, to be rescheduled later. I run meetings so as to waste the minimum amount of time required for everyone; I expect the same from others. The public shaming seems to work well at my current workplace.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Is this a surprise? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      It's not directly an age or maturity things. The 20-somethings are more likely to be the one SME in a meeting. They'll go to a 1-hour meeting and say/do nothing. It's a complete waste of time. They are there for the 10% chance that someone will ask a question that needs a technical answer. Everyone's time would be better served by reserving the time and having them available, and if a question does come up, call them and ask them the one question, then move on.

      When 99% of your time in a meeting is a waste, you will drift off. The 50+ year olds know they don't *do* anything anymore (other than collect pay for doing nothing), so they have to be in meetings 100% of the time to demonstrate their invaluableness. To them, the meeting is the desired outcome, not the decision or work product the meeting was called to do. So yes, they'll treat the meeting as sacred and get all pissed off if you aren't participating in a meeting that doesn't concern you.

    2. Re:Is this a surprise? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just a personal anecdote. I was invited to present to senior leadership at my company, and everybody in the room significantly outranked me. The previous speaker had taken a while after lunch to speak, and after I finished setting up several people were still not back from taking a break. I asked the executive running the meeting if I should go ahead and start. He told me not to, and that we'd go ahead and embarrass anybody who was late, which he basically then did (he didn't say a word, but I'm sure everybody who walked in noted the dead silence in the room). I was given my full allotment of time to present despite them being a few minutes behind on the agenda.

      The message I got out of this was that the executive running the meeting valued my time, and wanted those who worked for him to do the same. Everybody was well-engaged in the brief discussion following my presentation. The meeting had none of the usual distractions.

      I made a point to pass along feedback afterwards that I appreciated the way the meeting was run. My manager actually told me at our next meeting that she was asked to relay an apology from the executive for the waste of my time. It really had an impact on the importance I placed on doing a good job at work - leadership by example works.

  8. Depends on the business by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Today, you usually know who's calling before you answer. It may be appropriate to take a call if it's more important than the meeting. If you're in sales, a call from a major customer is probably more important than a meeting. If you're responsible for something operational, a call from someone reporting trouble is probably more important than the meeting.

    As for reading texts, if you're in a meeting and the current meeting activity doesn't involve you, it's an effective use of your time. This is more of a large-meeting thing. Large meetings are generally nonproductive anyway.

    1. Re:Depends on the business by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Today, you usually know who's calling before you answer. It may be appropriate to take a call if it's more important than the meeting. If you're in sales, a call from a major customer is probably more important than a meeting. If you're responsible for something operational, a call from someone reporting trouble is probably more important than the meeting.

      Except in both of those cases, you would excuse yourself and step out of the meeting to take the call. You don't sit in the conference room and talk on the phone while the meeting is going on.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  9. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Funny

    Do 20-somethings even know what minesweeper is?

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  10. Also depends on what's a "formal" meeting. by catfood · · Score: 2

    I can imagine really young people in a chaotic startup texting and messaging in a meeting because it's how the meeting works.

    Think "war room" more than "board room."

  11. Zero Tolerance by rogueippacket · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work in a fairly large technical sales environment, and we exercise a zero tolerance rule for our younger team members when we are out with clients - if you touch your mobile device for any reason beyond presenting content or sharing contacts relevant to the meeting, you will be reprimanded. Don't leave the device on the table, and don't even think about taking notes on your phone - anything that distracts you and forces you to break eye contact with your customer is a bad thing and makes you look like you're only half-interested in the people in the room.
    We will occasionally experience some belligerence after they have been reprimanded, but we always remind them that the best, most seasoned sales team members only need four things to close a multi-million dollar sale - pen, paper, whiteboard, and business cards.

    1. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which in many cases will look like your company is out of date. I make a point of throwing out business cards in front of sales drones who hand them to me. Send me your contact details via some more modern method or do not bother, I am not your secretary.

    2. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Oh look an internet tough guy!
      Tell us more stories about how you will hurt the man that made you feel bad.

    3. Re:Zero Tolerance by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      No, because they are wasting my time. If they cared about swapping contact details their are a myriad of ways that are convenient and not showy.

      Their job is generally to distort the truth and make purchasing based on feelings and shininess instead of facts and useful features.

    4. Re:Zero Tolerance by tgv · · Score: 2

      "a fairly large technical sales environment". I think I have found the WTF: salespeople.

  12. Re:Wtf? by arisvega · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Who does this? 27 year old here. If one of my employees did this during a meeting with me I would say something like, "Excuse me, was my meeting interrupting your important phone conversation? Perhaps we can reschedule the meeting around your social life. Would 8PM suit you?" (sarcastically)

    Did you consider that the call can actually be more important than "your meeting"? Personally, I assume that if during "my" meeting someone texts or answers a call, then there is a reason for that. And I believe that because I respect the people I am having the meeting with, as they -I assume in good faith- respect me, and they would not divert their attention elsewhere, if it was not for a reason.

    If you are not confident in your leadership skills, it is natural to put a grumpy sour face when someone is audacious enough to fiddle with their phone during "your" meeting.

    Bottomline, don't be a fucking Nazi.

    --
    The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
  13. Other way around by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Young folks know that business meetings are usually not actually important. Most of the meeting is spent addressing other people's concerns or bragging about some piece of information that the presenter feels is important, but is only trivia to most of the audience. If there's anything else, like a text message, that is perceived as a better use of one's time, they're likely to pay attention to that, rather than the meeting.

    Older folks would previously have just dozed off in meetings, or doodled on notebooks looking like they were paying attention. Now that older folks are likely to be the ones leading the meeting*, of course they feel slighted when their subordinates are devoting attention elsewhere.

    Another contributing factor is that young folks are more often the expendable workforce. They're the ones who are getting the longer hours and heavier workloads, being taught through their short careers that handling two problems at once is a minimum. There's a good chance that text message is work-related, and not responding would be the greater offense.

    * From TFA:

    People with higher incomes are more judgmental about mobile phone use than people with lower incomes

    ...which indicates to me that the older ones are the managers. On a wider study, this assumption may be invalid, as different industries have more youth at the top, but it appears this study covered 200 employees at a beverage distributor for its initial phase, and it doesn't reveal how many were used for the second phase. Not much hope for demographic diversity.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  14. Re:We do it in class all the time by SuperDre · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No, texting is not normal, it's rude and should not be done during meetings or classes unless it actually has something to do with the meeting/class itself.. You're at work/school, so you should leave the private stuff for lunchbreaks or after work.. If it's during my meeting I'll warn you once, if during the same meeting it happens again, I'll warn you twice, if it happens a third time during the same meeting, your mobile will become an UFO that'll crash.. People should just have some respect for others and work, and should know that private calls are not for businesshours unless there really is an emergency.. I pay you to work, not to spend your office hours on your socialmedia hub..

  15. Re:Wtf? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bottomline, don't be a fucking Nazi.

    It's a meeting. You're supposedly discussing something which requires the attention and input of everyone there. If that phone call is that important then get up and go outside. You don't sit in the meeting discussing something else.

    It's called common courtesy and common sense. If you consider those two items such a burden, then obviously so are you to the organization.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  16. Re:Wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Did you consider that the call can actually be more important than "your meeting"?

    If it's important enough to take, it's important enough to get up and leave.

    If you are not confident in your leadership skills, it is natural to put a grumpy sour face when someone is audacious enough to fiddle with their phone during "your" meeting.

    If I'm holding the meeting then yes, it's my fucking meeting, and if you've got more important things to do then go do them and quit wasting my time.

  17. Re:Learning the lesson the hard way by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    They'll learn when the 20-somethings get a poor review, smaller bonuses, passed over on promotions because their superiors are 30, 40, 50 and 60 somethings...

    U MAD, BRO?

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  18. Re:Learning the lesson the hard way by epyT-R · · Score: 2

    Maybe, until those 60somethings retire/die off and those 20somethings becomes the new 30, then 40, then 50, then 60somethings.. That's what's called a cultural shift. ..and if you tolerate your girlfriend throwing a fit because you checked your phone briefly, you're a simp.

  19. Over 40s by inhuman_4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense. There is nothing wrong with answering a text message in a meeting if your are not involved in the conversation and you don't disturb anyone else.

    Here is my list of stuff that is rude that over 40s do that I wish would stop:

    • Calling me on the phone and reading out a string of technical information. Put it in writing, put it in an email.
    • Print all of your emails. Sometimes other people would like to use the printer.
    • Complain that "new" technologies like version control are too complicated and therfore not worth learning (I'm not kidding).
    • Expect me to provide you, a programmer with decades of experience, with technical support.
    • Not knowing how to silence your phone.
    • Telling me how much fast/better you can do something than me. Nobody likes a braggart.
    • Grumbling about stuff people my age do, to my face.
    • If you have bifocals you don't need to take your glasses off and lose them.
    • Use Power Point.
    1. Re:Over 40s by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, they are apparently not planning to retire.

      Studies show most Boomers in their 50s plan to keep working into their 70s.

      Actually, one of the interesting medical effects of eye aging is that you get better (near normal) vision if you take off the bifocals when things are within arm's distance. So taking off glasses is a good idea. Losing them ... maybe we should all get those chains that librarians and nurses used to have?

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:Over 40s by houghi · · Score: 2

      As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense.

      When they do, you are the person people in their twenties complain about.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Over 40s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a 20 something I'm eagerly waiting for these baby boomers to just retire so we don't have to deal with thier nonsense.

      While all "boomers" are over 40, many non-boomers, children of boomers in fact, are over 40.

  20. Link to research paper by Lord+Grey · · Score: 3, Informative

    The actual paper, in PDF format, can be found here.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
  21. Re:We do it in class all the time by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You aren't paying me anything. The company is paying me to do a job, and that job is what matters, not your self-important rambling about your findings that don't concern me. If my message helps gets the job done more than whatever you're talking about, then I'm really being paid to send that message, and you're the one being rude by wasting time with the meeting.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  22. Re:Ban Personal Mobile Devices in the Workplace by EvilSS · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "It's just like the good old days when people didn't feel like they were entitled to bring their personal lives to work showed up at work to, well, you know, work.", he said, posting the comment to Slashdot in the middle of the workday.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  23. What's next, selfies at funerals? by Atypical+Geek · · Score: 2

    Oh, wait, we're already there:

    Selfies at funerals

    Seriously, people, learn some respect and manners. It won't kill you.

  24. Re:Wtf? by OliWarner · · Score: 2

    I don't know how you work but if somebody took a call *in* a meeting and made the whole room wait while they dealt with their problem, I'd have words with them. If they did it more than a couple of times, they'd be looking for a new job. Answering a phone call in a meeting is both disruptive and rude, regardless of its importance. If you need to answer it, you quietly make your excuses, step out and then you answer it. If you're in the middle of talking, you yield to somebody else to take over. Anything else is wasting multiple people's time.

    The the only exceptions I can think of are if the call is integral to the meeting (live results, conference call, etc) or it's the boss and they know you're *in* a meeting. It's their cash. They can spunk it up the wall if they want to, but I'll still step out to take it. Erm. So to speak.

    Tapping around on your phone is slightly more excusable but that does really depend on how much your engagement is required and it can still be considered disruptive. I would mind if people were writing emails. Assuming the person holding the meeting isn't a complete attention-seeking nutbag, there's probably a reason you're in the meeting otherwise it would have been an email.

  25. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, I am a 30 something year old so I don't fit into either demographics...

    However most of the time meetings are an out of date idea's. They historically worked because we didn't have a communication infrastructure that we do today. Conference phones where limited in the number of people on the line, issues with the person not being close enough to the phone to be heard and a slew of other communication problems, and before that it was very hard to get a bunch of people work on an idea, in a timely manner.

    But really for most meetings, the individual doesn't need to be fully mentally involved unless there is something important to them. It would be much easier to chat via a message system, you can see the stuff go across your screen, while you work on something else, until something important comes up you can can then review what went on and come up with an appropriate answer.

    the 20 somethings who grew up with this technology knows this and get very board during these meetings, as there is a lot of stuff that isn't important to them at the time that is going on. Now that said, It is still rude to disrupt the meeting with your activities, and if you are stuck at the meeting you should show some tact, but hopefully experience will clear that up.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  26. 9/10 Very Good Troll by Antipater · · Score: 3, Funny

    Meetings? Check. Texting/modern devices in the workplace? Check. "Get Off My Lawn"-type generalization? Check. This article's author included practically every white-collar-environment cause of rage. And judging by the butthurt-ness of most of the comments so far, the troll was eminently successful. The only thing that could have improved it would have been to specify American 20-somethings, to get cross-ocean flaming as well.

    --
    Everything is better with chainsaws.
  27. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    At a business meeting?

  28. It's not just the kids by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I work at a large 'Top Ten' company and I see this sort of thing from just about everyone who is under 60 (the older folk seem to doodle on notepads rather than play on phones). It doesn't matter if it's a manager or an intern, if there are more than a handful of people in a meeting you're going to see this. I get tired of hearing exchanges like this day in and day out:

    Speaker: And what do you think about that Johnson?
    Johnson: (playing on his phone) Huh? What?
    Speaker: What do YOU think about this?
    Johnson: (glazed look on his face) Umm... Can you repeat what you said? I didn't hear you the first time.

    Meetings grind to a halt when this stuff happens. Not only is it rude to the speaker, but you waste everyone's time when they have to go through everything again. Everyone swears they can play on their phone and listen at the same time, but it doesn't work. I understand the occasional emergency call (my favorite was when we could hear the guy shouting "The babysitter is doing WHAT? Stop her before she gets out the door!". I still have no idea what that was about.) but your day to day activities (work related or otherwise) can wait until the meeting is over with. It's just common courtesy.

  29. Ettiquette is a social construct by ArbitraryName · · Score: 2

    It's just what a given culture or group decides is the "right" way to act. If more people in that group feel a different way is instead what's acceptable, it eventually will be. "Rudeness" is simply violating a cultural norm. Ask a 70 or 80 year old and he'll tell you these young 40 and 50 year olds look like disrespectful slobs with their "business casual" clothes in a professional office. In some cultures if you admire the fountain pen someone was using it would be offensively rude for him to offer it to you as a gift.

    As the twenty-somethings who grew up with this technology expect it to be integrated into all aspects of their life, it eventually will be as they ultimately become the managers and CEOs. Of course, they'll probably find a new thing to complain about "kids these days" doing, even if it's not texting during meetings.

  30. Re:Wtf? by mark-t · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, I'd suggest that one potentially very important thing may have happened. You just got fired for having a poor work ethic and not taking part of your job seriously enough to actually do it.

    Good luck trying to collect unemployment benefits when the employer tells the employment bureau why they fired you... unless you are also prepared to lie to the bureau yourself and contradict their claim. And even if you did, the best that would happen for you is that your benefits would be delayed significantly, so you better have enough saved up to survive for without any paycheque for a couple of months while they investigate the claim.

    You don't have to like every aspect of your job, but unless you are self-employed and can always afford to lose clients that are less than ideal, that doesn't mean you aren't still obligated to do the parts of your job that you might not like. And that includes meetings.

  31. The answer of why is easy by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They are self-centered and everything is about them, and them only. Common courtesy and respect are gone in that generation..

    Do that around me in the office and you are fired, or at the least off the project. Do it around me personally, don't expect to be a friend.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  32. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Tanktalus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    More time spent paying attention even when you didn't think it was important may have paid off on spelling and grammar. "ideas", "were" limited, "fully involved mentally" (ok, that one is probably debatable), "The" 20"-"somethings", "bored"

    That said, the road we've been going down for decades already, since even the 40-somethings were kids, is one of more and more stimulation, of lower and lower quality. A hundred years ago, kids likely had to invent their own games, or, if they had access, they could read. 40 years ago, it was TV. Today it's Facebook. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that we've been training ourselves to require constant stimulation, with no regard for how good it is. Or, rather, we've stopped learning how to just be quiet and focused on the here and now, no matter how "boring" it might be. It apparently is also a helpful skill for being respectful of those around you.

  33. College kids evolution into the work force. by substance2003 · · Score: 2

    You know I recall a few years ago about an article stating how kids in college would be texting during classes and tests (yes those critical things you need to do to pass your courses) to the point where teachers had to expel them during tests after more than one warning wasn't enough to get them to stop using their cell phones.

    I'm thinking this is simply the evolution of those same kids now entering the work force. I'm thinking this might be worth following to see if these same kids will continue their social ways in the next few years. Are we going to see them continue to text in their 30-somethings or will they eventually learn better etiquette?

    Heck! Will anything the next generation do irritate them? I imagine by the time they reach their 40s that the new generation will be watching videos (loudly) during meetings or something crazy like that and think it's as appropriate as this group seems to think talking and texting are now.

  34. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    Well excuse my Diagnosed Dyslexia, some things are not quite easy for me.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  35. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 3, Informative

    I turn 28 this december. I grew up with MS-DOS and Windows 3.11, so yeah, I know what minesweeper is. :) Got to grow up with it.

  36. Different priorities - who you know vs who you see by ehud42 · · Score: 2

    I suspect (based on a loose study of my family), us older generation believes that the more important people to focus your attention on are the ones in your presence (at the table, in a meeting, etc) and that the person on the other end of the line can wait.

    Our kids however, feel that certain people are more important than others regardless of where they are. Their friends are more important than any boss or family that is nearby.

    And so, my wife and I will let the phone ring / answer machine take the call, ignore text messages / FB notifications, etc during supper.

    And my kids are squirming as if in extreme pain if their phone buzzes and we don't let them immediately see who it's from and if it's a friend let them respond.

    I'm not going to say it's a bad priority shift, but it certainly is an interesting one.

    --
    I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
  37. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by dknight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sorry, but that is largely a load of crap.

    I have had to attend a great many meetings in my day that were entirely irrelevant to me, my job, etc. There was no reason for me to be there, other than the fact that a manager wanted me to physically be there.

    Now, you can argue that I should not have to attend useless meetings, but the older generation is stuck on them and so we have little choice. That is not to say that no meetings have merit, of course.

    Being able to sit quietly in an irrelevant meeting isn't actually a particularly useful skill in the rest of life, so I can hardly blame anyone for wanting something to do or some other distraction during them.

    You may consider it impolite or disrespectful. I consider it disrespectful to make me waste an hour of my time because you feel the need to show your self-importance by calling unnecessary meetings and forcing people who have no need to go to them to be there.

  38. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by bob_super · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On the other hand, doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!

    If the meetings prevent you from doing the useful part of your job, tell your boss. If not, sit there quietly, you're paid to take a break.

  39. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by opentunings · · Score: 2

    But really for most meetings, the individual doesn't need to be fully mentally involved

    Dyslexia may explain why you don't need to be fully involved. It's my understanding that a lot of things work differently in the dyslexic mind vs. the non-dyslexic mind. Some are good, some are bad. Ask Richard Branson, Scott Adams or Steven Spielberg.

    However, most of the population isn't dyslexic, and for them to contribute to or benefit from the meeting, they do indeed need to be fully mentally involved. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for your coworkers, or neighbors, or...

    If you really feel that you don't need to be attentive, I'd suggest that you show some respect for your coworkers and simply dial in to the meeting. You'd be showing respect to them by not behaving in a way that annoys the crap out of them, while you're right in front of them.

  40. As a Manager... by jimbrooking · · Score: 2

    I became annoyed with an employee who received a LOT of cell phone calls during my infrequent, but necessary meetings with operations managers. Finally I placed a bucket of water by the door and as people entered the room and informed them that, as a security precaution, any cell phone brought into the room had to be placed in the bucket during the meeting. Thereafter, cell phones were left outside and out meetings became shorter and were not interrupted. Yes, I'm over 40, and I still think using a device for talking, texting, surfing or anything else when engaged with one or more live people is inexcusably rude.

  41. Technology advancing faster than etiquette by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We're getting all of these conveniences and our society doesn't have the time to instruct people (kids especially) what is and isn't appropriate behavior. It's not just this. It's people taking snapshots of party goers doing something embarrassing, sexting, phone calls in theaters, etc. I was just at the coffee shop and a woman had one of those bluetooth headsets talking away while at the counter. Now, nothing is more annoying than standing next to someone when you can't tell if they're talking to you, the cashier, herself, or some hidden phone under their hair or on the opposite side of their head.

    However, society hasn't had the time to say "hey this pisses other people off so just because it makes irrelevant 5 minutes conversations convenient, wait until you're in private to use this device."

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  42. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by Weaselmancer · · Score: 2

    Exactly. If it was fun they wouldn't have to pay you to be there. This is where he goes wrong:

    "Being able to sit quietly in an irrelevant meeting isn't actually a particularly useful skill in the rest of life, so I can hardly blame anyone for wanting something to do or some other distraction during them."

    Yes it is a useful skill in life. It's part of how you stay employed. Your boss wants you in the meeting, so you are in the meeting. End of story. Wanting "some other distraction" is another way of saying "you're boring me" and is a career limiting move. Stay alert, stay attentive. Spend the entire meeting trying to think of something to add to it. A viewpoint missed or a good question unasked.

    That's what you're there for.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  43. most 20-somethings aren't in "business meetings" by locopuyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you look at the actual polling they didn't differentiate people that actually attend business meetings or really define what qualifies as a business meeting.

    If you look at how many 20-somethings are still in school, unemployed, under-employed, or just doing some type of non-office work you'll see that a business meeting is something completely different to them.

    Most people on slashdot probably think of a business meeting as a project manager meeting with some technical people in an office meeting room, but most people aren't working in an office as technical people or project managers. A business meeting for someone that works as a waiter or cook at a restaurant could be the manager taking 5 minutes to talk about upcoming catering events in the morning before you start doing work.

  44. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by sjames · · Score: 2

    It becomes a problem at review time when all the things you wanted to be doing instead are metrics used to decide your raise and sitting quietly in meetings while the boss talks about golf isn't.

    I agree they shouldn't be taking phone calls right there in the meeting, people are trying to sleep.

  45. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

    I go to scientific seminars. It's considered rude to be checking facebook or playing angry birds, yet falling asleep is totally acceptable. You can check facebook during a boring part to keep yourself awake and then start paying attention again if something later catches your interest. This is not true for falling asleep, you're out of it until people start clapping. But all the senior scientists have fallen asleep in a lecture while few of them bother bringing a laptop in, so it's abnormal and rude.

    It probably shouldn't be any wonder that we haven't cured cancer yet.

  46. Re:Thinking what's appropriate vs. Doing by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

    The higher ups can get away with it because they are higher up. The peons answering a phone call from their mistresses and stock brokers are likely to piss off their bosses. So not a good thing.

    I was at a company-wide meeting once in which a higher up was giving a presentation. His boss called him on his cell, and he just walked out leaving the entire company except his boss (the CEO) hanging.

    Of course that was ok because the CEO has first priority.

  47. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

    On the other hand, doing what your boss asks of you, even when it's wasting your time in a useless meeting, is your job!

    No it bloody isn't. If you've been hired as a programer, your job is to program. Read your contract.

    If the meetings prevent you from doing the useful part of your job, tell your boss.

    Good luck if you have a boss who values "meeting weight".

    If not, sit there quietly, you're paid to take a break.

    If you believe sitting totally bored in a meeting is a break then you a very strange person. Here's something that would be amusing. Try telling a union employee i a boring meeting that they're "on break" and what your ass get smacked down faster than you can even finish the sentence.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  48. Robert A. Heinlein on Dying Cultures by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 2

    "Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms such as you have named... but a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot. [...] This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. Look for it. Study it. Friday, it is too late to save this culture... this worldwide culture, not just the freak show here in California. Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile; we must again have books, of stable inks and resistant paper. But that may not be enough. The reservoir for the next renaissance may have to come from beyond the sky."
    ~Robert A. Heinlein, from the novel Friday

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  49. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A meeting usually covers many topics, only some of which apply to most participants.

    For example: The annual briefing at my workplace. I'm support staff at a school.
    Summary of results? No interest to me. I'm not a teacher.
    Health and safety briefing? This I need to know.
    Fire evacuation plans? Half of it I need, the other half matters only to the fire wardens, of which I am not one.
    The boss's boss's boss's boss's droneing motivational speech? I fell asleep last time.

  50. Re:Job Description by LMariachi · · Score: 2

    I don't know what kind of martinets you work for, but the choice isn't between unquestioning obeisance and telling your boss to fuck off. If supervisors are wasting your time making you go to meetings that have nothing to do with you, they'll appreciate your feedback to that effect, unless they're pathological control freaks and/or idiots.

    Anyway, I don't think the article is talking about answering ZOMG EMERGENCY 911 calls, since it's so obviously expected of you to respond to those no matter where you are.

  51. Re:Bring on the wearable interfaces. by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why are you in the meeting if you aren't going to pay attention to it? If you don't have the ability to focus on something for 30 to 60 minutes at the exclusion of all else, you shouldn't be given responsibility for anything.. Fuck I'm surprise you don't swallow your tongue when you try to eat. You don't have the mental discipline required for responsibility. You know why people go to a separate room for a meeting? You go there to meet because for that time period you are * not * fucking * available * for anyone else. You are available for those in the meeting. If that weren't the intention they wouldn't call the fucking meeting in the first place. And if you are not being asked something or speaking in the meeting, you are listening. Someone invited you there because you might know something that can help. And you can't help anyone in the meeting if you are not paying attention to it. You are just a sack of shit taking up space in the meeting room. Get your fucking head out of your ass. [/endrant]

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  52. Re:We do it in class all the time by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

    But what happens if we look over your shoulder and the message is just from your girlfriend?

    Then you should infer that the employee finds his personal relationships more important than your meeting. Maybe it's the employee's fault for not valuing your precious information, or maybe it's yours for not understanding your employees' needs.

    Or if it is your direct boss asking you to be in the meeting and participating? ...Someone more important than you ... has decided that you need to be there

    Is he asking me to participate now, though? I don't think I've ever had a meeting (other than one-on-ones) where everyone's participation was required all the time. In the time where the topic has gone on a tangent unrelated to my duties, I think it is appropriate and ethical to maintain a connection to the world outside the meeting. At the very least, such a connection is a reassurrance to the employee that the meeting is indeed the most important thing going on presently. At most, the employee can still support other operations as needed. The exact level of communication that is appropriate depends on the meeting and the communication.

    If the CEO calls the meeting, is your time then worth more than the meeting? Is the CEO somehow clueless by not realizing that your entry level job is so vital to the functioning of the company?

    Possibly. I've walked out on a C*O's meeting before when a situation demanded immediate attention. He never questioned it, because he knew that the only reason I'd do such a thing is if the interruption was indeed more important (and it was). I've been pretty fortunate in this regard, in that most of my bosses have understood and accepted that I put my direct work responsibilities first at all times, even during meetings. On the other hand, that also includes most personal time - I'd much rather be interrupted while playing a video game than be unaware when I next arrive at work.

    Let me guess, when the company decides to have a party for everyone during work hours (free food and beer) that you turn it down because you still have vital job duties that you're being paid to do.

    Probably not... but I would just as easily interrupt that for a message, because I'm still being paid to do my job. That also means that the beer consumption would have to be limited, as well. If it were possible to be certain that nothing could demand attention (for example if everyone is indeed at the party, and my regular duties could only be invoked by someone else's request), then it would be appropriate to turn off the phone and relax, just as it may be appropriate to turn off the phone and be unavailable during an actually-important one-on-one meeting.

    Everyone who thinks their job is so vital often finds out that no one misses them after they're laid off.

    My job is not vital, but I am still responsible for it. If I were laid off (or on vacation), my duties would be unassigned, and work would go on. That does not excuse me from those responsibilities now.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.