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Snowden Seeks International Help Against US Espionage Charges
An anonymous reader writes "Edward Snowden is calling for international help to persuade the U.S. to drop its espionage charges against him. Snowden said he would like to testify before the U.S. Congress about National Security Agency surveillance and may be willing to help German officials investigate alleged U.S. spying in Germany. Snowden is quoted as saying that the U.S. government 'continues to treat dissent as defection, and seeks to criminalize political speech with felony charges that provide no defense.' He continues, 'I am confident that with the support of the international community, the government of the United States will abandon this harmful behavior.'"
He continues, 'I am confident that with the support of the international community, the government of the United States will abandon this harmful behavior."
Has he even read the stuff he leaked?
Because you have to be 35 to be elected president in the United States.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Nobody in Congress is interested in protecting you. No intelligence service in the world is interested in helping you. As soon as you set foot in any country that has an extradition agreement with the US you are gone.
Snowden should be commended for standing up to a government who has been 'caught with it's hand in the cookie jar', engaging in illegal and immoral espionage of its own people. This behavior is far more damaging to the United State's values and long term interests than anything Snowden could ever do.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Fuck you, NSA, you filthy traitors. The constitution isn't just rules for others to follow...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Don't you get it?
They all do this shit, and you merely put them in the spotlight. The ones not yet caught have, of course, feigned indignation at the US, for doing what they all do. (Hmm, which ones have protested the loudest here?)
Make no mistake, though, if the US has done worse than any of its peers, it has done so only through having more opportunity, not more will or effort.
TLDR: They all want you dead for exposing the truth. Do you really think the "truth" you've exposed ends at the Canadian and Mexican borders?
I think Snowden just realized what a scapegoat is.
You don't anger your "betters" and get away with it. You get punished, because that's what spoiled rotten children do. They punish those who make them look foolish. Scum in powerful positions are the most unjustly proud people, and the fewer people who realize that, the less they themselves are forced to realize it (and admit to themselves how utterly unworthy of merit they are).
How bad was his first day of work at the tech-support line?
If I were US president, I'd declare a presidential pardon on all charges. I believe what he did is in the best interest of our country. Not our government, but our country.
Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with what Snowden did, it is clear that what he did was not legal, and should not be legal. An individual should not have the right to decide which of his government's secrets should be revealed.
In geek terms, regardless of whether it was a good or evil act, it was clearly chaotic, not lawful.
Does Snowden really think that what he did was "dissent"? Dissent is defined as expressing an opinion. The people who participated in Occupy Wall Street dissented. They're all walking around as free men and women.
Snowden has been charged with giving classified information to a person without appropriate clearance and stealing government owned laptops. He did that stuff.
Committing a crime for what you feel are justified reasons means that you go to jail with your head held high and with people cheering for you. It doesn't mean that you get to walk free. I don't blame Snowden for running away. I wouldn't want to go to jail either. But his argument here is very weak.
There's a fundamental flaw in the OSIAAT.
The NSA seems to believe that they key to finding a needle in a haystack is to get a bigger haystack.
Others may try to follow this model but that would be stupid (not to say that "intelligence" agencies aren't stupid).
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
in a couple of those dead-man-switch Gigabytes?
Don't tell me it's all, ahm... 'metadata'.
The interesting property of some of the haystacks is that they are indexed, and you have an external value to match against.
I'll also point out that since one of the major trends in industry is "big data," you might think that there are both tools to deal with it, and some useful reasons for doing so. I hear data mining was all the rage in the Obama campaign, maybe some other places as well.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
He is living in a dream world. The U.S. will never drop charges.All of this is on him. If he would have gone confidentially to one of his senators, he wouldn't be rotting in Russia right now. He, himself, chose to be a traitor, not a whistleblower.
In geek terms, regardless of whether it was a good or evil act, it was clearly chaotic, not lawful.
That's your opinion.
Simple minds do tend to embrace following rules above all else.
People who are not afraid to think for themselves understand that on occasion it is best to break rules. I do realize that your little brain will probably have a kernel panic at the thought of such things, but that is how humans of the highest quality actually operate.
Perhaps it is your mind that is the little one. Does the phrase "regardless of whether it was a good or evil act" confuse you? Do you see no relationship between "break rules" and "not lawful"?
And please, stop being a poser who drops "kernel panic" into casual conversation.
I want to be clear. I approve of Snowden's release of the NSA scooping up meta data and spying on US citizens. I do not think that he should be charged.
On the other hand, he also released information about the NSA spying on foreign countries. Countries that are and are not our allies. This, in no way represents integrity or standing up for the constitution. It's espionage pure and simple and he, absolutely, should be charged for this.
I was cheering him on until he started talking about the US hacking Chinese networks and the like. He is damaging the US and it's international standing, with these particular leaks, that does nothing for US citizen privacy concerns and does everything to hurt the US for no reason nor gain.
If you think that the US should not be spying on foreign powers, that's one thing, but if you understand that it always has and always will be a part of national security then it's hard to not agree that he is guilty of espionage.
All of this ignores the fact that he could have gone to congress. I know of several GOP members that would have loved to pin this to Obama's legacy.
Best,
~Kevin
Or was that figure just made up?
I.e. own up and say "Yes, I merely assume that there's stuff he will release like that, it could be 0%".
will buy you a nice latte at Starbucks... :-( Edward, you are stuck in Russia or other countries willing to harbor you, until the 2nd American Revolution occurs... :-(
People who complain about him taking refuge in a country with a more oppressive government are missing the point entirely; maybe even intentionally. For years the U.S. government has put itself on a pedestal and acted as if it holds the moral high ground when it comes to the rights of it's citizens. Edward Snowden shattered that by revealing how full of crap they were. Does Russia have a worse human rights record than the U.S.? Absolutely. Does that give the U.S. the right to crap all over the 4th amendment and become a surveillance state? Hell no. Edward Snowden didn't defect to Russia and announce to the world that they are better than the U.S., he simply ended up there because he had no other choice; and he obviously would like to be able to come home. Personally, I am ticked at our government not just for violating our constitutional rights and branding whistleblowers as traitors, but for embarassing all Americans on the world stage by making us look like a bunch of hypocrits.
If you think the charges are bad, go to the nearest US Government presence and turn yourself in. Then prepare your case in court.
Manning didn't get a special deal in the military, and neither should you as a civilian for the same conduct.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
N/T
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Never.
On the other hand:
Russia has long since returned to its USSR ways. The amount of KGB-style assassinations, corruption, and gated communities of/in Russia outpace the US in its current condition.
Germany's acting like the GDR when it comes to Snowden. They'd rather score cheap points against the world's only hyperpower(the US) by asking for the help of Russia.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
the guy is a traitor for doing what he's doing....i support the US keeping charges against him. It's just a matter of time...
You're willing to support someone that has committed crimes that have put all citizens of the US in danger...
Wrong.
Snowden put no one in danger but himself from the US government's efforts to exact revenge for Snowden shining light on corrupt criminal government cockroaches. The US government put US citizens in danger themselves by knowingly violating the restrictions on government powers set forth in the US Constitution. Snowden simply revealed their ongoing crimes and constitutional violations.
Snowden is as much a criminal as is a woman who reveals her cop-rapist's identity to higher authority. In this case, the rapists compose the US Federal Government and the victims are everyone who is not them.
The government did and continues to conspire to violate their oaths of office, the Constitution, and the rights of every citizen because those in power want to monitor and control everything and everyone they can. They are criminals and tyrants for which hanging is far too good a fate.
If the US government had been acting within the powers it is allowed by the Constitution there would never had been any leak, as Snowden would have had nothing to reveal nor have any motive to reveal it.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
May as well. The US has ceased to stand for anything good and it nothing more than a globalist enforcer. No meaningful number of Americans oppose that role.
That's not to say anywhere else will fare much better under scrutiny, but now that the ideological battle of the Cold War is finished and Russia, China, and the US share the same freedom from idealism there is no reason for a bright fellow like Snowden to want out of Russia.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Getting Snowden to Germany could EASILY be a set-up. Germany and the US are just too close, despite Merkel's cell-phone tap. And the outrage over it could be exaggerated.
There were things in the files he released that weren't crimes as long as you were looking at only the USA laws. Releasing those harmed USA spying efforts and as such, is treason and/or espionage. The fact that a significant part of these files revealed that the NSA were in fact breaking USA laws doesn't make the part that he released the rest of it go away.
Robin of Hood committed crimes, even if he gave the profits of those crimes to the poor. While I think the world is overall better off with Snowden doing what he did, that doesn't make these charges bogus all of a sudden. He did something unlawful, even if his intent was good. If you don't agree with this being unlawful, you should try and work on getting the laws changed.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
"Edward Snowden is calling for international help to persuade the U.S. to drop its espionage charges against him"
Mmmhmm. Yeeeeeeeeah fuuuuuuuucking riiiiiiiiight. They'd be more likely to let Hitler go at this point. I get the impression they might still be just the tiniest bit mad at him.
"alleged U.S. spying in Germany."
The NSA already admitted in doing so. So why still call it an allegation?
"Snowden seeks to set himself above the law. His actions have said all that needs to be said on his behalf outside of court."
Done BSing? The US government and the courts have proven long ago they couldn't be trusted in this area. Snowden took the only option he believed he had based on past and recent evidence of government behavior toward whistleblowers. It's the government who thinks it's above the law, you know the law that the public is to enforce on the government when the government won't.
Yes, and the American revolutionaries should have brought their concerns to the King instead of breaking the law and killing all those poor red coats. I'm sure the King would have been understanding by chopping off their heads for bringing it up.
"I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom. That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient," Obama said in 2007, adding that "the FISA court works."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/jun/13/barack-obama-surveillance-then-and-now/
I feel for Snowden. He is my a hero. Problem is hardly unique to him though. With a federal government full with the likes of Obama Pelosi Reid Biden McCain, all lovers of liberty need help.
Hang him, before he convinces someone important he isn't just a traitor in politically acceptable clothing.
Yes, and the American revolutionaries should have brought their concerns to the King
They did.
well, it's here. Snowden just exposed it, granted in a very crass way. More refinement would have been nice, but that might have cost him doing anything at all. The NSA is out of control.
The US government has no business doing what it is doing with such a vast and broad spying program. I personally am looking at ways to secure my personal and business transactions, knowing I'm in an arms race with every government on the planet who will be trying to crack open my data to see what is inside. I just wish my own government would help me with this instead of adding to the list of entities I have to defend against.
Snowden is quoted as saying that the U.S. government 'continues to treat dissent as defection, and seeks to criminalize political speech with felony charges that provide no defense
Dissent is refusing to follow orders. Defection is to run to the enemy. What Snowden did was treason. He was given a position of trust and access to sensitive information because he swore allegiance to his country and to protect his country's secrets. Snowden betrayed the trust placed in him by his country, which is the definition of treason.
Treason: 1.betrayal of country: a violation of the allegiance owed by somebody to his or her own country
What Snowden did was not "political speech", it was copying secret documents and then gave them to members of a second country while in a third country. Yet, his job was to safeguard those same documents. By copying them and distributing them, he violated his word and promise to his employer and his country. And, releasing classified documents is a crime. The reason he doesn't have a defense is because he admitted to the crime.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Look, when he spoke about spying on Americans, it was somewhat whistle blowing (individuals were being spied on by individuals, but NOT by the agency; at least, he has not shown otherwise). And the fact that those individuals were let go, rather than prosecuted is actually a concern. They should be doing time for that.
BUT, once he spoke about spying on others OUTSIDE out nation, he became a traitor. Look, nearly all nations spy on each other. Perhaps the worse is China, BUT, USA (along with our partners in 5i) is doing their share, as is France, Germany, Russia, Brazil, Japan, Israel, etc. And none of that is ILLEGAL per USA or even UN laws.
As such, he is also a traitor. To claim that this is political discussion is a joke.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
what an ass.
Here is a clue for idiots like you. All of this was done under reagan and then extended massively under W. So far, nothing new has been shown since W left. You speak of dems taking liberties, when not only is is you neo-cons, BUT you cowards want to blame others for your actions and never take responsibility. Sad.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Sounds like they can't handle the truth.
That doesn't mean their leaders are being entirely honest. So? Here's what you just said: "So a lot of this European and Latin American angst is... cynical pols." You're representiong the qualms to be only on the part of a corrupt government, when in fact everyone shares them. Not to mention, the qualms themselves are entirely reasonable--we effectively co-opted their internet to spy on them. Your tepid explanation that the US would do "shit that works" (I bet you'd say they'd do it "real good", too!) is a weak nondistinction. Brazil's seeking to circumvent the US by attaining direct network access to China. You wouldn't deem that to be "shit that might work"?
Seriously, those last three sentences just tumbled right out of your butt. Dennis Miller, is that you? Get the fuck out of here.