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CIA Pays AT&T Millions To Voluntarily Provide Call Data

Posted by samzenpus on from the checking-numbers dept.

First time accepted submitter binarstu writes "The New York Times reports that 'The C.I.A. is paying AT&T more than $10 million a year to assist with overseas counterterrorism investigations by exploiting the company's vast database of phone records, which includes Americans' international calls, according to government officials. The cooperation is conducted under a voluntary contract, not under subpoenas or court orders compelling the company to participate, according to the officials.'"

81 of 107 comments (clear)

  1. ATT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    American Tattle Tale

    1. Re:ATT by bhagwad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And yet some people I've spoken to would rather trust AT&T than a company like Google when it comes to their choice of Internet Service Provider. I'm always amused by these guys.

      "Google is evil! How can you even think of taking Internet service from them? AT&T? Oh sure! Sign me up!"

      Apparently they believe that just because Google is an ad company they'll sell your personal information for cash. Well, no they won't because that's not how it works and they'd be pretty stupid to do that since their entire business model is based on trust. And second...well apparently AT&T is straight up selling data for money. Surprise surprise!

    2. Re:ATT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The NSA doesn't have to buy the data from Google... Do you think the hundreds of employees they share and the fact that most of their biggest data centres are right beside each other is simply a coincidence?

    3. Re:ATT by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, no they won't because that's not how it works

      That's not how it works today while Google is rolling in the dough. When they hit hard times, that could easily change, but all the data they've collected over the last decade will still be right there, tempting management to sell it for a quick buck.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:ATT by Virtucon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Agreed. It's sad that our movements, our preferences and our communications are subject to the whims of some corporate fat cat who wants to find new ways of maximizing shareholder value. They'll do anything with the data you entrust to them and all it takes is a policy shift because the terms of service you agreed to gives them the right to do this, even without a judge ordering them to turn the data over. Right now there's only a few voices out there who are yelling loudly about this in Congress and we need to get a piece of comprehensive legislation in place that genuinely protects our privacy. Unfortunately I don't see the current administration doing anything about it because they're too busy sniffing our in-boxes. Besides I'm still waiting for Guantanamo Bay to close.

      Since the TFA is talking about overseas operations, it's interesting to look at their policies/TOS in the US since this call data can get you wrapped up in some government investigation because you have a friends in "those foreign places, not in 'Merica."

      AT&T has multiple privacy policies but this one is of particular interest.

      • We will protect your privacy and keep your personal information safe. We use encryption and other security safeguards to protect customer data.
      • We will not sell your personal information to anyone, for any purpose. Period.

      It says safe, not confidential but the second line seems to be in conflict however again, this is "overseas" stuff right? So they'll sell it to the feds because they also state...

      Assist in the prevention and investigation of illegal activities and violations of our Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Policies.

      So they've given themselves a moral way out because if you're doing naughty things or harming their network, they'll do whatever they want to keep their good name intact.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    5. Re:ATT by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And all along I'd been thinking they were doing it all for free.

      Glad to see my tax dollars are supporting it!

    6. Re:ATT by houghi · · Score: 1

      That's not how it works today while Google is rolling in the doughAnd you believe them why? If it were happening there are two good reasons NOT to admit to it.
      1) It would be bad for business
      2) It would be bad breaking the NDA

      And everybody has a price. That price is not always money.

      And perhaps it is not even needed, because for now they have other ways of getting that data.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:ATT by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      I don't remember the last time I used google to make a phone call...

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    8. Re:ATT by jamiesan · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that AT&T's logo looks like the Death Star.

    9. Re:ATT by uncomformistsheep · · Score: 1

      all the data they've collected over the last decade will still be right there, tempting management to sell it for a quick buck.

      Economics nerd here ... but as long as there are a few people in the world with some foresight, google will make more money selling those assets to them. That's why investment works reasonably well under capitalism; while all people are selfish, and many are shortsighted, as long as there are some that want to save money for retirement or whatever, you can make more money through arbitrage and sell them the future profits.

    10. Re:ATT by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      Your tax dollars are supporting criminal investigations.

      And it takes time to compile the data. Even a straight data query without going to backup requires some dedicated time. I don't expect companies to volunteer this time.

      The issue is volume of requests. Say the volume is too high if you want, but each company has millions of customers generating lots of data.

      Get congress to make fewer things illegal, that's a far easier line to argue.

    11. Re:ATT by cusco · · Score: 2

      The FBI and local/state police do criminal investigations. The NSA and CIA do not, and almost without exception refuse to share data with other non-intel agencies, even when those agencies are investigating terrorism.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    12. Re: ATT by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      I've been able to stab several people too, but haven't done that either. My point is, ATT is a telecom company. Their business is almost exclusively communications so them handing data over is slightly more severe than a company no one thinks is actually keeping their information secret.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    13. Re:ATT by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but that last line should read:
      So they've given themselves a moral way out because if you're accused of doing naughty things or harming their network, they'll do whatever they want to keep their good name intact.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re:ATT by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      {accused of | suspected of | know somebody | were once affiliated with somebody } ;-)

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    15. Re:ATT by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      1) It would be bad for business

      That is a blanket unsupported assertion, particularly given the context of google's current business model starting to fail, perhaps as a result of the public's move to more decentralized communications (p2p messaging, etc) that aren't so ammendable to google's "man in the middle" services.

      2) It would be bad breaking the NDA

      What NDA? Google didn't sign any contracts. You agreed to a click-through contract that includes terms that permit Google to change the terms whenever and however they see fit.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  2. Wow... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    I had no idea AT&T was such a cheap date. I would have assumed that the 10 million might cover the fee for transferring all those heavy packets through the tubes to NSA HQ, with the data and analysis itself ringing in at at least a factor of ten greater.

    Also, given that AT&T has slightly over 100 million wireless customers, never mind all the Ma Bell copper customers, apparently the volume discounts on customer information are pretty good...

    1. Re: Wow... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected. Insomnia's charm really starts to wear off once you pass the two day mark...

    2. Re: Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      CIA != NSA

      Nah different names, same scum.

    3. Re:Wow... by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 2

      Like a first date, AT&T fell in love with "counterterrorism investigations", such a clean and respectable sounding type. Turns out it is little more than organizing illegal kidnappings, torture, assassinations - outside the rule of law, anyones law, anywhere... and forget the constitution.

    4. Re: Wow... by gl4ss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      for all intents and purposes they're joined at the hip.

      that is, their bullshit is the same and they stand on the same legs but they got different heads so the information doesn't end up being used for it's stated purpose, just for myriad of other things. ..oh and I guess this just underlines how stupid it is to not have decent privacy laws in place. they can sell all your information - to anyone who asks and pays.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:Wow... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I had no idea AT&T was such a cheap date. I would have assumed that the 10 million might cover the fee for transferring all those heavy packets through the tubes to NSA HQ, with the data and analysis itself ringing in at at least a factor of ten greater.

      Nah. The ten million covers the pipes, and the data and analysis is already being done by AT&T for their own purposes, and simply being forwarded on to the feds.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re: Wow... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Its a very interesting point fuzzy and worth exploring. The CIA was well known for its under embassy telco work around the world. Teams, experts but always seen as direct or per mission, bases, spy planes, tunnels, people in firms: equipment out. The idea that the CIA had its "own" larger internal bulk telco clearing network is not really well understood.
      Why where they doubling up on work perfectly done by the NSA and GCHQ/contractors globally?
      Why did the CIA feel it was not getting everything from the NSA that would clear the way for another 'risky' interface with telcos?
      A past rift and the rise of the digital warfare NSA over the past 10 years would be very politically influential. Power that the CIA wants back at any price?
      Or does the CIA worry about its own operations leaking and wants to see all telco data in real time as the NSA/GCHQ and many other "staff" members do?
      Or did the CIA just want their own backup for when the NSA has issues every few decades for a few days?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:Wow... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I had no idea AT&T was such a cheap date.

      It's $10M plus "what happened to Joseph Nacchio won't happen to you". Remember, these guys have all the phone calls (at least metadata, probably more) and all the emails of all the execs running these corporations. I'm sure they all lead lily-white lives, right?

      After all the Snowden briefings, who will be surprised to learn that these TLA's have groups that specializes in collecting "strategic data" on people those TLA's need to get certain behavior from?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re: Wow... by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      The NSA Spies on us, the CIA spies on them. I think that's about as close of a difference as you can make.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    9. Re:Wow... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      True enough, they even built their own domain specific C extension for the purpose of evaluating very large datasets (it's called 'Hancock' if you want to go googling yourself).

      However, if I've learned anything about the world from software, it's that the fact that the work has already been done is absolutely no obstacle to charging each customer for doing the work...

    10. Re:Wow... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      However, if I've learned anything about the world from software, it's that the fact that the work has already been done is absolutely no obstacle to charging each customer for doing the work...

      They were made an offer they could not refuse. Let us not forget the lesson of Qwest.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    AT&T is a shameless hooker?

    Bending over for any Government agency who pays out?

    Giving up the goods on its clientele for a "fat" sum of cash... (snitch? traitor? turncoat? oh wait, its AT&T, its all about the money, fuck anything and everything else)...

    CAP: critter

    1. Re:so... by some+old+guy · · Score: 1

      AT&T is a shameless hooker?

      Bending over for any Government agency who pays out?

      Yes.

      --
      Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
    2. Re:so... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Think of the $10 million as a reach-around, and AT&T as a consenting participant.

      That's closer to what's happening.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. What does AT&T get in return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Contracts with the government to supply telecommunications without needing to worry about competition?

    Free date nights with top rung escorts when they're in town for meetings?

    Free big-data analytics?

    $10 million for the bottom line of a company like AT&T is chicken feed. What's really going on here?

    1. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They get to coninue doing business in the U.S.

    2. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 2

      Antitrust violations are ignored, while they continue to be cooperative. Same goes for most big companies, play ball or be investigated...

    3. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by msauve · · Score: 1
      What do they get in return? They can expect a class action suit. Here's part of their explicit Privacy Policy:

      What is Personal Information? Information that identifies or reasonably can be used to identify you...We don't sell your Personal Information to anyone for any purpose. Period.

      Now, the article does say "it does not disclose the identity of the Americans and 'masks' several digits of their phone numbers," but admits "the agency can refer such masked numbers to the F.B.I., which can issue an administrative subpoena requiring AT&T to provide the uncensored data." In my mind, that makes even masked data information which "reasonably can be used to identify you."

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by Xacid · · Score: 1

      I've actually seen Verizon in much higher usage in that realm than AT&T. I'm sure there's a similar arrangement with them.

    5. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Big international trade deals ensuring a constant flow of peering via the USA. i.e. cash, size, global standing, ability to set global standards 'first' or keep old tech for a bit longer and then upgrade at will.
      All that well lit optical not providing profits to local interconnects - been routed all the way to the USA and back thats the 'gift' that keep on giving.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by identity0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Their executive's stocks don't get scrutinized for insider trading, as happened to a certain Qwest executive...

    7. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      RE What's really going on here? The millions would pay for cleared support never to talk to a boss, contractor or staff i.e. trusted support teams to be on call 24/7.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      Information from CIA performed industrial espionage?

    9. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by houghi · · Score: 1

      You have no idea how companies work. You might think that there is a group of people who look at the overall picture and then decide what they will do.
      In reality there are a multitude of people who are deciding what they will do. Each manager has his own budget and when one of them can add 10.000.000 to his budget, he will do it. The only other thing they are interested is if it makes a loss or not.
      Revenue and profit. As long as you get those two, you get a sale and that does not matter if it is 10.000.000USD or 0.01USD.

      They get 10 fucking million dollars in return and you seriously think there is something else going on?

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    10. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      The alternative is saying no, and fighting a very expensive lawsuit.
      Warrants cost more money than paying off ATT, so everyone just assumes it would be granted. Saves time and money for everyone.
      If they require a warrant, they can't bill for time spent, and LEA could just seize servers. So it is business continuity as well.
      Many more points to be made, including things like the current scotus opinions on whether that data is protected from warrants, and soon you see ATT made the right choice.
      Which is why I do no business with them at all.

    11. Re:What does AT&T get in return? by intermodal · · Score: 1

      They also get to not get served FISA orders to hand it over for free.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  5. Corps pay more just for gmail/facebook privateinfo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's crazy, AT&T getting only $10mil/year? I don't believe it. The value of data is a lot higher than that. Someone is lying....

  6. Legal immunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They may be breaking many laws, but they don't care. They have legal immunity as long as they are doing the NSA's bidding, so nobody in AT & T will ever question the legality of what they do.

    Who cares what laws Congress writes if you are immune from them?

    1. Re:Legal immunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They may be breaking many laws

      It's the exact opposite problem. They're not breaking laws here because no such law exists. It should, but it doesn't.

    2. Re:Legal immunity by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      oh if they only had written the laws.

      in couple of next years there's going to be bigger and bigger scandals abut monetization of databases because it's 100% legal in usa.

      credit check companies selling information to credit card fraudsters is just he beginning.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Legal immunity by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Last i checked, the 4th is still in effect. Electronic comms are CLEARLY to be considered 'papers and effects'. Anyone who disagrees is a traitor.

      --
      Good-bye
  7. 'The C.I.A. is paying AT&T more than $10 milli by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does the CIA still raise that money by selling drugs into the US like it was caught doing previously, or do they just sell weapons on the black market to "Axis of evil" type countries. Such a credible and upstanding extra-govermentmtal organization, a shining beacon for protecting democracy... *sigh*.

  8. NOT voluntary by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

    So the CIA pays AT&T to "voluntarily" hand over somebody else's data? That is a giant stretch of the word "voluntary". The people concerned have not been asked anything. Neither have they volunteered anything.

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    1. Re:NOT voluntary by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

      So the CIA pays AT&T to "voluntarily" hand over somebody else's data?

      What on earth makes you think data about the customers' activity belongs to the customers? You must not have been paying attention to the telecom or computer industries for the past 15 years.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:NOT voluntary by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the CIA pays AT&T to "voluntarily" hand over somebody else's data?

      Ah, but the trick is that, as interpreted, this is actually AT&T's own data collected as part of their business.

      The logic goes that since AT&T owns the wires, and needs this information to do billing and monitor their networks, then that data actually belongs to AT&T. And since that data belongs to AT&T (so goes the theory) you don't get a vote in AT&T giving over 'their' data even if 'their' data happens to be about you.

      The people concerned have not been asked anything. Neither have they volunteered anything.

      Sure you did, you voluntarily used their system, and in the process implicitly provided them with it.

      All there in the Terms of Service, and neatly upheld by the courts.

      Welcome to the Brave New World, where if you want privacy you are free to not use the phone system, the internet, the banking system, go outside your house, or interact with people lest details of what you do becomes 'property' of a corporation who is free to voluntarily assist intelligence agencies.

      Grand, aint it?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:NOT voluntary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What on earth makes you think data about the customers' activity belongs to the customers? You must not have been paying attention to the telecom or computer industries for the past 15 years.

      Technically it is still illegal for AT&T to provide this information to a third party without a court order, regardless of who "owns" it, as long as they maintain the facade of being a common carrier. But of course this is the "New Amerika" where the rule of law doesn't apply to the government or big business.

  9. I know him! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And yet some people I've spoken to would rather trust AT&T than a company like Google when it comes to their choice of Internet Service Provider. I'm always amused by these guys. "Google is evil! How can you even think of taking Internet service from them? AT&T? Oh sure! Sign me up!"

    Yeah, he's my neighbor: S . Man - he prefers to be called "Straw".

  10. AT&T IS PATRIOTIC !! I WANT TO SIGN UP NOW !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sign me up, AT&T !! This exemplifies what it means to be an American corporation !!

  11. Mob Manuever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Seriously this is classic mafia behavior. Force them to take a bribe so you have blackmail leverage as accomplicies and their "cooperaton". The CIA has been arround far too long commiting crimes.

  12. Eh? by loccohombre · · Score: 2

    Ok. I'll bite. "Pays" ..... "Voluntarily". So that's an inducement right?

    --
    "It's expensive, stupid, last only seconds - but makes your mouth hurt for days - it's BEE IN A BALLOON" - Kibo 3/1/95
    1. Re:Eh? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Ok. I'll bite. "Pays" ..... "Voluntarily". So that's an inducement right?

      Think of it as an 'incentive' to do it without a subpoena, and a friendly gesture of good-will towards the national security people.

      It's patriotism, honestly.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  13. The Modern-Day German Industrialists by broward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    America's IT companies are today's modern-day equivalent to the pre-WW2 German Industrialists. More than happy to clamp diigital handcuffs on their own customers for a few $$$, shove them into electronic cattle cars and ship them off to Information Death Camps.

  14. Is that legal? by wvmarle · · Score: 2

    Is it even legal for AT&T to just hand over personal data, to anyone who asks for it? Don't you guys over in the US have privacy laws, preventing or at the very least tightly regulating this kind of data transfer?

    Otherwise, why would anyone ever bother with subpoenas and so to get such information?

    Personal data is valuable. If AT&T can freely sell it to the CIA, what's stopping them to sell to other companies, for use as marketing purposes, or maybe even for identity theft purposes?

    1. Re:Is that legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is what weak privacy law gets you. Not enough in the laws to make this clearly illegal.

    2. Re:Is that legal? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Is it even legal for AT&T to just hand over personal data, to anyone who asks for it?

      Terms of service, and a big proviso they will cooperate with law enforcement.

      Don't you guys over in the US have privacy laws

      And limit what corporations can do? Are you mad?

      If AT&T can freely sell it to the CIA, what's stopping them to sell to other companies, for use as marketing purposes, or maybe even for identity theft purposes?

      What's to say they don't?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Is that legal? by Taibhsear · · Score: 1

      Is it even legal for AT&T to just hand over personal data, to anyone who asks for it? Don't you guys over in the US have privacy laws, preventing or at the very least tightly regulating this kind of data transfer?

      I believe the courts just ruled that it's not your personal data, it's the company's data. Which is complete bullshit in my opinion.

  15. "Buys" that's the word by rosencreuz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You pay someone to provide you data voluntarily -> you buy data

  16. Are they going to blame Edward Snowden again ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now that we know AT&T is on the take; Now that we know CIA is using our tax monies to bribe a PRIVATE COMPANIES so to SPY ON US, are they going to cook up even more harebrained excuses and then try to pin them to Edward Snowden ?

    Can't wait to see the astroturfers crawling out from their hideouts with their brainless accusations ...

    Calling Mr. Cold Fjord ...

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Are they going to blame Edward Snowden again ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who is this "Mr. Cold Fnord" you speak of?

      Am I the only one who sees that?

    2. Re:Are they going to blame Edward Snowden again ? by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Think of the children!

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
  17. Chicken feed? by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

    Set up some system to provide the call data, provide the relatively low cost infastructure to do it, and you're rolling in $10m/year?

    Companies don't make money with billion dollar checks, its incremental. If their infastructure and support for this is $2m/year and you have to staff 8 people for it, that's still a massive profit margin.

  18. why is this news? by umghhh · · Score: 1
    US corporations gather and deal with private data of all people that they can gather data of. US government is hell bound on getting its hands on all private data of all people. Somehow I do not see an element of news or surprise here especially as gov everywhere are outsourcing stuff every day. They buy private data from a telecom operator - really? I would have been surprised if that was not the case of if people demonstrated en masse against this disregard for laws and right to privacy.

    We live in a new world where such things like privacy are deemed evil and an attribute of terrorists or perverts. I guess there people in Germany 1933 who did not feel OK with what happened to the republic but still did not have any means of fighting it. It is the same here. Fascists, it seems, raise up every century or so.

  19. Paid voluntry? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Surely if you volunteer something something, by definition you're not getting paid for it

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    1. Re:Paid voluntry? by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      "Voluntarily" is not the same as "volunteered". If they had volunteered the data, that would mean that they weren't getting paid for it. Turning it over voluntarily just means that they weren't coerced (e.g. with a subpoena or search warrant).

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  20. Re:AT&T IS PATRIOTIC !! I WANT TO SIGN UP NOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    love,
    cold_fjord

  21. this is what happens when by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    there is no accountability for the government, the US Govt and its three letter bureaucracies degenerate in to gangs of criminals, you can bet they milked that information for all its worth, i bet valuable data went to their criminal friends on wallstreet, the US Govt has degenerated in to a kleptocratic gang of fascists that are liars, thieves and murderers. and they know they can get away with it because there is no accountability

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:this is what happens when by kilfarsnar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      there is no accountability for the government, the US Govt and its three letter bureaucracies degenerate in to gangs of criminals, you can bet they milked that information for all its worth, i bet valuable data went to their criminal friends on wallstreet, the US Govt has degenerated in to a kleptocratic gang of fascists that are liars, thieves and murderers. and they know they can get away with it because there is no accountability

      This is one more step in the breakdown of our society. When the average person sees that powerful people are not subject to the law, they start to wonder why they themselves should be subject to the law. When they see people lying, cheating and stealing to get ahead, and it working, they conclude that only chumps play by the rules. When they perceive that there is one set of rules for the rich and powerful, and another for everyone else, they lose respect for the system.

      These attitudes are a cancer on our society. When trust and respect break down, all that is left to order society is force. When people can't trust the authorities, they become an adversary. This won't end well.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    2. Re:this is what happens when by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      This is one more step in the breakdown of our society. When the average person sees that powerful people are not subject to the law, they start to wonder why they themselves should be subject to the law.

      These are the same people who have been convinced that universal health care is a "communist" plot. "Better dead than Red." Wish granted. There is no hope when the citizens vote for their own slavery, hell, they insist on it.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  22. Shockingly Similar by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    Overheard at a highway vehicle stop, "Would you mind if we search your vehicle?" Sure, you have the right to reply, "I decline to acquiesce to your request." But then, what are you trying to hide?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Shockingly Similar by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      The simple words should be 'I do not consent to search'. What and why could be misconstrued.

      --
      Good-bye
  23. The CIA Made them an offer... by sycodon · · Score: 2

    ...that AT&T couldn't refuse.

    Even if AT&T were inclined to say No Thanks, does anyone believe that answer would be accepted?

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:The CIA Made them an offer... by RoTNCoRE · · Score: 2

      And if they did say no, the NSA would just splice into their network, and reverse engineer the data they wanted ala Google. $10M may be cheaper though.

    2. Re:The CIA Made them an offer... by formfeed · · Score: 2

      ...that AT&T couldn't refuse.

      Even if AT&T were inclined to say No Thanks, does anyone believe that answer would be accepted?

      That would be helping pedophiles.

  24. Stop calling it counter-terrorism! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    "The New York Times reports that 'The C.I.A. is paying AT&T more than $10 million a year to assist with overseas counterterrorism investigations

    Because Angela Merkel is really suspected of being in Al Qaeda? The U.S. does this because

    1) We like being imperialistic fucks
    2) Because we can
    3) Corporate espionage
    4) Skirts the 4th amendment - see DEA and fusion centers

    Actual terrorists, they can't catch even when given point-blank warnings from foreign governments or even their own officials. See: 911 and the Boston marathon bombing.

  25. 10 million? puleeze... by Alomex · · Score: 2

    Word on the street is that AT&T billings for intelligence related activities were around $2 billion a year total, between FBI NSA, CIA and other security organizations.