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Can the US Be Weaned Off Ethanol?
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Matthew Wald reports in the NYT the the Environmental Protection Agency has proposed reducing the amount of ethanol that is required to be mixed with the gasoline supply, the first time it has taken steps to slow down the drive to replace fossil fuels with renewable forms of energy. The move drew bitter complaints from advocates of ethanol, including some environmentalists, who see the corn-based fuel blend as a weapon to fight climate change and was also unwelcome news to farmers, coming at a time when a record corn crop is expected, and the price of a bushel has fallen almost to the cost of production. "Boy, my goodness, are the oil companies going to benefit from this," says Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association. "We're all just sort of scratching our heads here wondering why this administration is telling us to produce less of a clean-burning American fuel." But the EPA says that a big part of the problem was that automobile fuel systems and service stations were not set up to absorb more than about 10 percent ethanol. Most cars on the road are limited to the current mixture, called E10, and there has been little demand by consumers for more. Reasons for the turnaround are many: The boom in domestic oil drilling has dimmed the urgency to find other alternatives to Mideast petroleum. Demand for gasoline has slumped. And criticism of the environmental impacts of corn ethanol has dimmed its luster nationally. The chill on ethanol will certainly affect the industry's powerhouse, corn ethanol. But the risk is far greater for smaller sectors of the industry still struggling to get out of the gate — those aimed at producing next-generation biofuels like "cellulosic" ethanol, made from ingredients like switchgrass and corn stalks. "I don't know if the EPA is aiming for uncertainty, but they may inadvertently create it," says Jan Koninckx, the global business director of biorefineries for DuPont. "The impact could be that another country will lead this rather than the U.S.""
Notice how consumers aren't given the choice of buying "pure" gas, as opposed to E10. I'm pretty sure that if we had the choice we'd be buying the good stuff, not the corn crap.
The real question to me is why corn is used for Ethanol instead of say algae?
complaints from advocates of ethanol, including some environmentalists
There are environmentalists advocating ethanol fuel from corn?
If they are referring to the Renewable Fuels Association they've made a mistake.
Better yet Instead of corn, grow something actually nutritious to feed to people.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Most people are unaware that they already pay for ethanol, in the form of subsidies, before it is even added to gasoline.
Everyone I've spoken to about ethanol did a 180-degree reversal of opinion when I mentioned to them that not only have they already paid for that ethanol, but that it is also genetically-modified corn developed by Monsanto that is used to produce that ethanol, as are the pesticides used on those crops.
Funny, how people change their opinions so quickly when provided factual information.
There is a lot of debate over weather or not its such a great thing to just give food away to poor countries. It lowers the price of domestic farmed goods, depressing the local economy. Its often argued that its a better idea to support the local farmers as much as possible and only giving away food in famine situations.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
The only reason we still have corn ethanol is because there's so much money involved. It's a great way to get paid a lot of money without actually going to the trouble to earn any of it.
- It's never really been about "the environment", but now they're not even pretending any more.
- "Energy independence" was always a cheap slogan to fool the rubes into paying more for an inferior product, but that's not working either now that the US is set to become the world's largest oil producer in 2015.
Like many government programs, graft is all that's left. The ethanol producers and the farmers feel entitled, and the politicians were bought off a long time ago.
I, at least, am unlikely to be weaned off ethanol.
Breakfast served all day!
Corn is solar power. The Republicans will subsidize solar, so long as the aristocracy gets its cut.
Learn to love Alaska
Given that the corn ethanol EROI is so bad, and most people seem to know, I'm kinda wondering who would be desperate enough to try it anyway. The problem is definitely not laughable however.
Je me souviens.
True, but that doesn't mean that (certain) food isn't more expensive than it otherwise would be, but for so much corn going to ethanol production. For example, as to corn itself, while the commodity price has dropped dramatically over the last year, it's still twice as high as it was in the early 2000's.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=corn&months=240
Moreover, the cost of corn is the primary cattle feed in the U.S. As a result, the price of beef largely tracks that of corn, and has likewise more than doubled since 2000.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=beef&months=240
"I don't know if the EPA is aiming for uncertainty, but they may inadvertently create it," says Jan Koninckx, the global business director of biorefineries for DuPont. "The impact could be that another country will lead this rather than the U.S."
Oh boohoo. Cry me a river. Let's have a look at DuPont's financial statements, shall we?
In millions of USD
2009 2010 2011 2012
Net Income
After Taxes: 1769 2745 3155 2493
If DuPont wants to lead in biofuels, DuPont should pay for the research to lead in biofuels. "Another country could lead this" is code for "give us free taxpayer money because $2 billion or $3 billion annual profit isn't enough for us."
How about do your fucking jobs and develop your own new markets. Start selling pure ethanol as fuel. Need to drive demand? How about Ellen Kullman goes and has a golf game with Alan Mulally. Ethanol-only F-150s should do the trick, especially if DuPont decides to sell mini-bioreactors suitable for farms.
But I forgot, Ellen Kullman has already had a golf game with Ryan Lance, so that isn't going to happen, is it.
replace there rubber fuel lines every year
How about replace them once with ethanol-resistant fuel lines. I can't even find rubber fuel lines anymore. Even the OEM parts (1970 Mercedes fuel hose, custom dimensions) aren't available in rubber anymore. I asked. The dealer parts guy said safety regs won't let them sell rubber parts.
Have gnu, will travel.
I live in Iowa. We grow a lot of corn here. But there are other crops, things like soybean and sunflower. You know what happens when the demand for ethanol goes up? The price of corn goes up. And then what? People stop planting as much soybean and sunflower because corn is making them more. And then what? The price of soybean and sunflower goes up because there's a drop in supply.
And that's why a large bag of sunflower seed for my birdfeeder darn near doubled in price a few years ago, everyone was pulling out their sunflower and replacing it with corn. You don't really notice all these effects until they start hitting you.
Farmers will hedge their bets, plant multiple kinds of crops in case one of them tanks due to weather, but the ratio they mix in varies, to balance return and risk. When return on their main crop goes up, they can take bigger risks by pulling more of the less profitable crops out.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
So, by replacing 10% of the gasoline with ethanol, you lose 20% of the energy? Man, ethanol really sucks! Does E85 reduce a flex fuel vehicle's mileage by 170%, then?
Since "anonymous coward" clearly doesn't know the answer, I'll help. People typically report losing about 20% of the mileage with E85 v/s gasoline, assuming no other changes (it's actually closer to 34%, but E85 is only 85% max, and then only in the summer; it's way less in cold weather, so that's probably why people see an average of 20-ish percent). Running E10 costs around 3% of your mileage, which is 1MPG in a 30 MPG car - or about the difference you'd see if you accelerate briskly from a couple more stoplights than usual.
Do you have a link describing this process? Or are you making this up?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Corn is what FOOD eats.