Slashdot Mirror
FCC To Consider Cellphone Use On Planes
aitikin writes "The Federal Communications Commission is expected to propose allowing passengers to use their cellphones on airplanes. While phone use would still be restricted during takeoff and landing, the proposal would lift an FCC ban on airborne calls and cellular data use by passengers once a flight reaches 10,000 feet. From the article: 'The move would lift a regulatory hurdle, but any use of cellphones on planes would still have to be approved by the airlines, which have said they would approach the issue cautiously due to strong objections from their customers. Airlines would have to install equipment in their planes that would communicate with cellphone towers on the ground.'"
I think this would lead to in-flight homicide.
*ringtone*
*pulls out GIANT brick phone*
What!?!
No!!!!
I'm on an airplane!!!!
I'm on an airplane!!!!
No!!!
What?!?!?!?
I'm on an airplane!!!!
Yes, an airplane!!!
No, I can talk!!!!
What?!?!?!?!
No, I can talk!!!!
Here comes the flood of people complaining about having to listen to other people talking...
Even though it's really no different to people talking to the person next to them
Except people tend to talk louder on the phone than in person... and you're trapped next them for the next n hours.
Put the phone down. It won't hurt. I promise.
HELLO! GLADYS? I'M ON THE PLANE! I CAN SEE CLOUDS! ONE LOOKS LIKE A RUTABAGA! DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS ANYTHING? SO HOW WAS YOUR DAY? WAIT SOMEONE NEXT TO ME IS TRYING TO GET MY ATTENTION. EXCUSE ME CAN'T YOU SEE I'M ON THE PHONE? HOW RUDE!
great, now I have to bypass the yelling filter... sdlfjals;kdfjakl; sklsfdlkas; lsdksdk lsk dslk sdl ksdlk; dsl;sd ldslklsd klds;l dsl;k ksdkl;sdlkdskl; sd;klsdk l; sdkllks;d skdl; skldkl;ds k;ldskldsklsfjlskdfk sdl lks dklds lks;dlk ds ;klsdlk dsdkls slkldkslk;d;klsdkl dsl;skd l;kds ksdl; sdkldslk sldk;l kdsk;lsd lkkl;ds ds ;klsd kl;kdsl; k;ldsksd kl k;sdkl;sl;kd klsd;lkds l;kdslk sd;lkk; lsd;lkds l;ksd;klds ;klsdkldsl;k sd ;lksd ;klsd l;ksdl;k sd lk;dsl ;ksdl ;kds l;kds l;kdskl ;sdklsd k;l;sdkl;klsd;klsd kl;ds k;lds; lksdkl; ds;kl sdkl ;sdl ksd klsd; lkdsk ldsklsd;lkds ;lkds ;lkds ;klds; lksd;kl
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
Cell phone use is allowed on busses (metro and inter-city), and it doesn't seem to be a huge problem there. Why should I assume that planes would be significantly worse?
Or not
“It’s very emotional in the United States,” said Benoit Debains, the chief executive of OnAir. He insisted that the anxiety was overblown. For one thing, he and other industry executives said, standard cabin noise covers up much conversational noise, yet people with cellphones pressed to their ears in that environment somehow do not feel the need to speak louder to compensate.
“I remember on the first flight we did, we asked one guy, ‘What do you think about using the phone for voice in the cabin?’ He said he was against it. But we said, ‘You know, the guy across from you has been using his phone for the last five minutes.’ ”
Emirates executives have even heard from skeptical pilots and flight attendants who mistakenly believed “the system was on but nobody was using it” on a particular flight, he said. “And I was able to go back to them and say, well 63 people had their phones on, and there were 22 phone calls and 68 messages.”
He added, “They were thinking it must be broken because they don’t hear anybody using it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/technology/29phones.html
Except people tend to talk louder on the phone than in person
And they'll be screaming over the jet engines on top of that tendency.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Some people talk louder on the phone. Not all, or even most people.
There have been phones on planes for some times now. It hasn't hurt anyone.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Can you speak a bit louder? There is this loud whirring noise in the background!
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Cell phones not a problem on busses and trains?
Have you ever took a train during rush hour?
Terror right there.
I thought there's little or no signal strength at 10,000 feet above ground level, wireless antennas are designed for ground coverage, not reaching anything in the sky.
1970s: "Would you like smoking or non-smoking?"
2010s: "Would you like quiet or non-quiet?"
2090s:"Would you like stasis or non-stasis?"
Airlines will love this. Even at $1/minute, passengers will rake up pretty good bills by the end of the flight. And I doubt they will stop at a buck a minute, because above 10k feet, well, they got you by the balls.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the airline mafia were behind this, with large paychecks for the FCC officials who push this through.
There was never any safety issues with using a cell phone anytime during flight. If there was, don't you think that planes would be dropping like flies from every nutcase and terrorist turing on (or leaving on) their cell phones?
It was disallowed because it cut into airline revenue from expensive airplane to satellite phones. However now that airlines are deploying micro-cells, with huge roaming fees, guess with, its now magically time to remove cell phone restrictions. But only when the planes are above 10000 feet, in order to allow these micro-cells to override ground based cell towers, and insure roaming revenue.
Below 10000 feet, the in-flight cell phone ban must remain in place, since it is much easier to bypass the micro-cells in planes and connect directly (and cheaply) to a ground based cell towers.
If you consider it when a cellular phone is in the air it is an equal distance from several towers, so it is effectively difficult for the telcos to bill the users properly and the airline to get a cut - so tell people it's a safety issue and they can't use it. More likely the safety issues, which bring an airline down because of on-board mobile phone use are yet to be discovered.
Just hope I'm not on the aircraft that reveals the problem.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Of course there's no problems. Of all the flights I've taken, I haven't seen a single person ever use the in-seat phone.
“I remember on the first flight we did, we asked one guy, ‘What do you think about using the phone for voice in the cabin?’ He said he was against it. But we said, ‘You know, the guy across from you has been using his phone for the last five minutes.’ ”
Draw your own conclusion as to why he was against it.
In the bad old days, when there was another antisocial behavior that profoundly affected the innocent victims in adjacent seats, we divided the plane into smoking and non smoking sections. There was leakage from section to section, but at least it wasn't in your face.
Many Amtrak trains have a highly desirable "quiet car",which helps to separate those the see the trip along the east coast as a continuous sales call opportunity from those that see the trip as a continuous concentration or sleeping opportunity.
So, I'm all for allowing calls on planes, provided I can book a seat in the STFU section for no extra cost. Especially if it saves me from taking a transatlantic flight surrounded by a gaggle of teenagers that think it's a Beatles concert and not a redeye.
I've been hearing this for DECADES and it never happens.
Time Bomber the Book coming soon.
standard cabin noise covers up much conversational noise, yet people with cellphones pressed to their ears in that environment somehow do not feel the need to speak louder to compensate.
And right there you have the crux of the problem. This guy does not understand human nature.
When people can't hear, they shout.
Without a headset requirement, there will be shouting.
And most phone speakers are so weak you have trouble hearing in even a slightly loud environment. People will resort to the speaker phone function and then you get to listen to both sides of every conversation at once.
The best way to get people to talk softer is to require them to use earbuds or headsets.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
The CEO who stands to make tens of millions of dollars from this says its a good thing? Well, gee, guess I better just take his word for it.
Anyone who talks on the phone next to me on a plane will have my elbow in their side for the duration of the phone call. It's only fair.
Even though it's really no different to people talking to the person next to them
Hearing half a conversation is worse than hearing a whole conversation.
I am calling all scientists out there to fudge their data and show that the moment a call exceeds 30 seconds that the plane is more likely to crash than not. Can you imagine an 8 hour flight beside some bubble brain blabbing the whole time on their phone:
"Mary said, to John that I told Sue what Jane said about Mark... Yeah I would so love to get high with him. Did you see what Mary was wearing at John's on Friday, I wouldn't be caught dead in that, it is sooooo 2012. I gave my phone to this geeky neighbour who I have friendzoned soooo hard; so anyway he put this giant battery in it so I can now talk for like 2 days straight. Anyhoo I have those new shoes, ya the ones with the red, anyway I got them and they hurt my feet so much and after I went home with that guy... no I don't know his name.. well anyway the ass made me walk down his 2 mile long driveway the next morning and now they're ruined, ya you're right I should sue him. So now I have to ask my baby daddy to buy me another pair, or I won't let him see his kid at my step-mother's. Ya I spent my whole paycheque on them. I don't know, do you know, then who knows, do you know anyone who knows someone who knows. Ya so anyway all the people on this plane are so boring, no Vogue, No Elle, Nothing. The only thing I can see is some guy near me reading something called the Eco Mist. Boring. It has a picture of that Hispanic guy who's president or something......."
>Airlines would have to install equipment in their planes that would communicate with cellphone towers on the ground.
How those people aboard the doomed aircraft on Sept 11 were all able to make phone calls again?
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
For the first few weeks it may be obnoxious. Then the chatterboxes will get their bills. There will be much screaming (not on the airplanes) and word will get around that using a cell phone on an airplane is really expensive and not something that one should actually do unless the matter is urgent.
You know, sort of like the air phones we have now.
Them: "Mind if I yak on my cellphone in this enclosed space?"
You: "Mind if I fart?"
There's *no* reason for using a cell phone on a plane.
Citation needed.
Here's a reason: I want to phone home and talk to my wife and child
Here's another reason: I want to join a conference call, which is tricky enough to arrange in the first place with people in the States, Europe and Asia all on it.
You seem to be ignoring almost everything he wrote.
The FCC making it legal is one thing. Airlines allowing it is another. Given the overwhelmingly negative response I've seen on this so far today, I think it's pretty safe to say that any airline that decided to allow passengers to make calls on their phones would risk losing business -- especially the business of frequent flyers. People who fly a lot tend to be quite familiar with the annoyances of flying, so why would they want to fly an airline that potentially adds another?
What I haven't seen mentioned is whether you'd have to pay a premium for such calls. Assuming you have to pay cruise ship rates (over $2 a minute), that would definitely discourage people from making long chit-chat phone calls to pass the time of their flight. Likewise, I'm sure a time limit on calls could be easily implemented. With such conditions in place, I'd probably be ok with it, and I'd certainly appreciate it if I was ever in a situation where I really needed to make a phone call en route to my destination.
www.gaiageek.com
International airline have been doing this for years. They don't have complaints. I'll take real world experiences, which have been studied out, over someone whiner's random post on ./. Normally I'd be all anti-establishment, but the potential backlash is really too much for them to ignore if it's an actual problem.
You're a sucker.
This is a cash grab. They will charge big bucks, and the business commuters will pay, because their company will want them in meetings. You think the airlines give two shits about degrading service? If it scares off a few passengers, what do they care? They don't want volume, they want margin. And most people who fly have no choice anyway.
I've taken quite a few international flights, and never seen a phone call. Perhaps there are some locales that allow them, and maybe they don't get complaints. Just like restaurants don't get many complaints about diners on phones. People just sigh and accept a bit of misery, because they don't want to make a scene by complaining.
So life will get a bit more hellish for everyone, while a select few benefit. And you'll cheer from the sidelines because the man who profits most from this told you that it's a good thing.
People act like the FCC and.or FAA changing things will be the end of the world. These changes won't prevent airlines from acting their own policies, and odds are they will have their own rules... and why the hell would you want the FCC governing this - and not the airlines?
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Except people tend to talk louder on the phone than in person...
I heard that part of this is because mobile phones, unlike fixed line phones, don't echo back what you say. We (us old fogies, anyway) are so conditioned by years of hearing our own voice coming back out of the speaker (albeit at a low level) on a fixed line that when we use a mobile phone, our brains immediately think it's not working and we crank up the volume.
I said we CRANK UP THE VOLUME.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
What we really need is something that will make flights more annoying, more loud, more horrible to sit through. Just turn the phone off, you don't need to be one it and just relax until you get to your destination.
Two problems with phones: first , people seem to have the need to scream into them. Second, it is extremely annoying to just hear one side of a conversation. No, it does not add to convenience to have to listen to 3 people around you talking loudly into the phones. It makes an uncomfortable experience even more uncomfortable. People can live without their phones for a couple of hours. Really.
uh they want volume? that's what most airlines have been tweaking for, which is why they try to fill the last spots with practically free tickets(price of airport fees).
and who charges those bucks? not the airline, at least in eu. you have to watch out for roaming fees though.
do you know who was previously charging big bucks? why the fuck do you think the inflight entertainment controller had a dialpad and the unit a credit card reader built in ? ? ?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
You know, a lot of people in here are complaining about in-flight cell use being annoying. But we have had in-flight wifi for awhile now, and you can use the phone over that service any number of ways. Is that being abused?
TO me, the solution is simple.. you enable the access, but you disallow people from making or taking voice calls via simple airline policy. Text only. This allows people to use their own text and data plans and keeps the annoyance factor to the same level as wifi.
I flew on American Airlines last week (after the recent relaxation of in-flight electronics rules). They offered WiFi on the plane for 'a nominal fee', but specifically prohibited VOIP and other phonecall-like behavior.
I HOPE that sets a precedent - I REALLY do not want to be on a plane with cell phone yakkers.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Here comes the flood of people complaining about having to listen to other people talking...
Even though it's really no different to people talking to the person next to them
Except people tend to talk louder on the phone than in person... and you're trapped next them for the next n hours.
Put the phone down. It won't hurt. I promise.
And how is this any different from a bus or a train?
Seriously have you ever refrained from taking a bus because someone might be on the phone?
And yes, sometimes not being able to use the phone for hours does hurt.
Someone chatting a couple seats away from you won't hurt. I promise.
US phone plans typically have no roaming charges over the 48 states - it's easy to spend six hours in the air with no cost increase for cell phone use, and thus no deterrent to yacking.
In Europe, it's hard to take a flight over an hour without crossing an international border.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Or not
“It’s very emotional in the United States,” said Benoit Debains, the chief executive of OnAir. He insisted that the anxiety was overblown. For one thing, he and other industry executives said, standard cabin noise covers up much conversational noise, yet people with cellphones pressed to their ears in that environment somehow do not feel the need to speak louder to compensate.
“I remember on the first flight we did, we asked one guy, ‘What do you think about using the phone for voice in the cabin?’ He said he was against it. But we said, ‘You know, the guy across from you has been using his phone for the last five minutes.’ ”
Emirates executives have even heard from skeptical pilots and flight attendants who mistakenly believed “the system was on but nobody was using it” on a particular flight, he said. “And I was able to go back to them and say, well 63 people had their phones on, and there were 22 phone calls and 68 messages.”
He added, “They were thinking it must be broken because they don’t hear anybody using it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/technology/29phones.html
Darn. Here I wa stinking of a new app that let you upload one side of the overheard conversation and create the other for humor, fun, and profit when you share it via Phoneagram (tm).
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I have to put up with rubes and their mobile phones in restaurants and stores, sharing with everyone within earshot their most personal, and almost always painfully banal, conversations. Please do not subject me to that for hours on end in an aluminum tube at 35,000 feet.
Really, REALLY??!!! It's bad enough hearing the douche on their iPad or table playing Fruit Ninja with the volume at MAX
"Even though it's really no different to people talking to the person next to them,"
Yes, it is different. On a phone conversation, you can only hear one side of the conversation. Our minds tend to try to fill in the blanks and attempt to make sense of the conversation, which does not occur when you can hear both sides of a conversation.
So yes, phone conversations ARE more annoying than "in person" conversations.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
I think there is a big market for microphones that can pick up words without having to actually speak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throat_microphone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subvocal_recognition
It might be a cash grab, it doesn't mean you're not a moron for thinking the sky is going to fall
If you are my age then there are memories of an age where people could smoke on airliners. The booking agent would ask "Smoking or Non-Smoking?" So, the modern version could be "Cell Phone or No Cell Phone?" Maybe they could put seats in the baggage hold for the Jabberwockies.
If I left my phone on in my own plane, the phone would show now servive, usually above 5000. At 10,000 and above, it was a lost cause. OTOH How'd you like to be on one of those cattle cars with half the passengers using cell phones?