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Indonesian Politicians Plan To Quiz Snowden Following Visit By Russians
cold fjord writes "Yahoo reports, 'Indonesian politicians plan to quiz former US National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden in Russia about revelations Australia tapped the phone of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. The move came as Indonesian protesters again laid siege to the Australian Embassy in Jakarta, burning images of Tony Abbott, throwing eggs and calling for a hard line against Australia. More than 1600 police were deployed to the Australian and US embassies and at several other potential targets in the capital after reports that hardline group the Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) planned to hold the rallies ... Indonesian media reported MPs had 'permission' from Moscow to go to Russia to meet with Snowden ... The Jakarta Post said a delegation of Russian politicians was in Indonesia this week to discuss the Australian phone tapping revelations. Indonesia also launched an investigation into local telecommunications companies to see what role they may have played.'"
All these aggrieved politicians who wouldn't have anything to talk about were it not for Snowden, but not a single one of them is talking about offering him asylum.
Indonesia's got its problems (seems to be on the 2-steps forward, 1-step back path to social modernity) but it is hard to think of a better place to live your life in exile than Bali. Beats the hell out of those russian winters.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I don't condone the violence, but it's interesting that you'll get headlines blaming the violence on Snowden and his release of the documents - not on the real source of the problem which was the covert activities of the US, and it seems now also the Australians.
Indonesia also launched an investigation into local telecommunications companies to see what role they may have played
Wake me when telco officials physically spend some time in prison like they should be doing in the US. That would be rather impressive and satisfying.
In the US there is zero accountability at this point so the only justice I can enjoy is vicariously through other countries not yet as far gone.
Given Snowden's background, it doesn't seem he has issues with divulging information. As part of fleeing to Russia, I'm certain he understood that he would have many conversations with many interesting people. I hardly think any sort of "working over" will be necessary in this case.
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the end of an Empire or a WW soon? Russia must be loving this as the US keep inching towards their own noose and their allies looking quite guitly.
Oh hardly. This is a tempest in a teapot. Every country spies, but they have the good sense not to get caught out on it. Now these NSA "revelations" have just become cannon fodder for anyone with an agenda. To suggest it'll lead to military action though is far-fetched to say the least. This is how international politics play out. It's nothing of any real import.
Many people gain by seeing the US cock-blocked in certain economies. Cisco was on track to grow 12% this quarter and instead shrunk by 6% -- as a major telecommunications provider, Snowden and this NSA business have cost them billions. And those billions have gone to its competitors.
All this talk isn't about the military, but about the economy. Anything that can be used to give other countries an edge against the largest country's economy is going to be leveraged to its fullest.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
And once the rest of the word locks down those holes all the US will have is intelectual property which no one will give a flying fuck about. Thats why they're so desperate to get TPP finalized in secrecy. You'd be a fool to think a major "stay relevant" conflict in not going to happen on the next 10-20 years as the US becomes less important and its citizens want their American Pie culture back. By then they'll just be straight consumers with verry little to offer to the rest of the world.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
More than likely the case. He's probably more familiar with things he was actually involved with, but it's doubtful he's had time to educate himself on the details of every program and initiative for which he released data.
However.
Even if Snowden has no intimate details for Indonesian officials, they would likely, even knowing it was pointless intelligence-wise, make a big production as they've done out of "interviewing" Snowden simply for international and domestic-Indonesian propaganda and political PR purposes.
This whole dog-and-pony show gives Australia, and by extension the US government, a serious, and *deserved*, black eye internationally.
The US government has grown so powerful that it has become a threat to both the domestic and international population. They've got their "guns" pointed at everyone...citizens, foreigners, allies, enemies, journalists, and whistle-blowers all over the world.
So, why is shrinking the federal government and taking away some of the powers it has given itself a bad idea, again?
This isn't about political Party or ideology, simply basic human nature and the way groups of humans interact and behave. If you've got a large enough government apparatus to operate an entitlement society the size of the US, it's going to become corrupt and abuse that power, and it's not like corrupt power-abusers would care about abusing foreigners any more than citizens.
Once the apparatus of government grows large enough, no amount of oversight or checks-and-balances will be able to contain it's growth in scope, power, and level of corruption. There are now secret courts FFS! There's simply too much wealth being spent and too many people in too many agencies, bureaus, departments, offices, etc etc etc, to watch. At this point, any instrument of oversight will be "captured" and become a further enabler and provide "cover". Witness the "Deep Horizon" BP oil spill incident.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
"All this talk isn't about the military, but about the economy. Anything that can be used to give other countries an edge against the largest country's economy is going to be leveraged to its fullest".
There some problems with "largest country's economy" (or "largest country's economy"). From Wikipedia:
China is the world's second largest economy by nominal GDP and by purchasing power parity after the United States. It is the world's fastest-growing major economy, with growth rates averaging 10% over the past 30 years. China is also the largest exporter and second largest importer of goods in the world. China is the largest manufacturing economy in the world, outpacing its world rival in this category, the service-driven economy of the United States of America.
The relevant part here is that the US economy may be larger but much of is becoming people scratching other peoples backs; think of hair dressers, restaurants, banking etc.
CH: GDP by sector agriculture: 10.1%, industry: 45.3%, services: 44.6%% (2012 est.)
US: GDP by sector agriculture: 1.2%, industry: 19%, services: 80% (2011 est.)
Oh, there is ample of oomph left:
The US has abundant natural resources, a well-developed infrastructure, and high productivity.[24] It has the world's sixth-highest per capita GDP (PPP).[2] The U.S. is the world's third-largest producer of oil and second-largest producer of natural gas. It is the second-largest trading nation in the world behind China.[25] It has been the world's largest national economy (not including colonial empires) since at least the 1890s.[26] As of 2010, the country remains the world's largest manufacturer, representing a fifth of the global manufacturing output.[27] Of the world's 500 largest companies, 132 are headquartered in the US, twice that of any other country.[28] The country is one of the world's largest and most influential financial markets. About 60% of the global currency reserves have been invested in the US dollar, while 24% have been invested in the euro. The New York Stock Exchange is the world's largest stock exchange by market capitalization.[29] Foreign investments made in the US total almost $2.4 trillion, which is more than twice that of any other country.[30] American investments in foreign countries total over $3.3 trillion, which is almost twice that of any other country.[31] Consumer spending comprises 71% of the US economy in 2013
Note that consumers spending comprises 71% of the US economy in 2013 and put that in relation to
US Exports: $1.56 trillion (2012)
US Imports: $2.3 trillion (2012)
Ouch.
This is a tempest in a teapot? Oh hardly.
.
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Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_US
Snowden no longer can be given credit for anything; He released everything he stole months ago.
A finite, but as of now undetermined, amount of data was conveyed to journalists. I am keenly interested in seeing objective proof that the sum of those disclosures is equal to the sum of all information in his possession. If you're planning on using Snowden's public statements in support of your view that everything he has is already in someone else's hands, I suggest you consult the dictionary for the definition of "naive."
I served in the United States Navy as a submariner, and I've been rather intimately involved with communications networks since around the age of eleven. You might be surprised to learn that I applaud Snowden's revelations regarding pervasive NSA surveillance of American citizens at home, abroad, and in interaction with allied nations. I doubt you have the depth of experience or context to fully appreciate why I applaud it, though, given your choice of the word "stole" to describe the materials in question. I prefer the term "returned," or perhaps "disclosed," as in "disclosed to the American people what their government had been doing in violation of their own Constitution," a document I swore an oath to uphold and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Again, I doubt you truly understand what that means.
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You are so stupid. Snowden has plenty of stuff left.
Name calling isn't very helpful. But yes, it would surprise me if he doesn't have anything tucked away for a rainy day. He is in the kind if situation where some "insurance" might come in handy.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
No need for any "power vacuum".
The powers we find essential can still be there, just distributed to individuals, cities, counties, and States instead of centralized at the Federal level There are also entire federal departments that could be eliminated entirely.
There is only one way a government gains power. That's by taking that power from the people it governs. The more power the government has, the less free the people are. When you give government more power in whatever form, you surrender freedom.
How much less-free would you like to be?
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
and in fact he didn't since he wasn't planning on his destination being Russia
Prove it. It's likely he had a number of eventual destinations in mind, unless he's a complete idiot, which he doesn't appear to be.
why hold on to something that gives the USA reason to assassinate you and Russia reason to torture it out of you
This demonstrates extremely thin understanding of the conditions under which it would be useful to torture someone, and of the actual information that could be gained as a result.
as well as a matter of ensuring that info would be able to get out
There are many ways of ensuring information gets out in the event of your demise. Reference "dead man's switch." Cheers.
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It's a tempest in a teapot because /every/ nation spies on every other nation to the greatest extent that their technology, budget and legal system allows. It has been this way since pre-biblical times (hell even the old Testament in the Bible records nations spying on nations amongst other ancient stories). I don't know if you noticed or not but while a lot of people became upset, and certainly a number of companies became upset about the Snowden revelations almost no governments became upset.
Think about it, why did almost no government become upset? Why did almost no government condemn the spying unless it was a small government that simply lacked the resources to do any level of spying at all? Use Occam's razor and give me an answer, any answer that doesn't come down to this:
Every nation spies on every other nation to the greatest extent that their technology, budget and legal system allows.
There are no innocent parties, and to be frank if there were they would be incompetent and in need of replacement for endangering their citizens. Unfortunately history has a habit of supplying example upon example of this occurring through less than peaceful means. You might recall a time and a quote "gentlemen do not read each others mail". It was spoken by a Mr Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of State in 1929 right before Japan started their half of WW2 and used to justify cutting off funding of US Cryptographic efforts for breaking other countries communications. Similar examples from other nations that were caught and surprised with an invasion abound through history.
Tempest in a teapot? This tempest in a teapot has been brewing for thousands of years, only the names have changed. Those nations that have taken this teapot off the stove have paid the price time and again...