Valve Joins the Linux Foundation

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Valve Joins the Linux Foundation

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday December 4, 2013 @05:36AM from the now-just-kill-your-drm-and-we-can-be-friends dept.

probain sent in this excerpt from Engadget "In case Valve's multi-tiered investment in Linux gaming weren't clear enough from SteamOS, the Steam Controller, and Steam Machines, the company's also joining the ranks of The Linux Foundation membership. Valve Linux head Mike Sartain calls the news, 'one of the many ways Valve is investing in the advancement of Linux gaming;' he sees the move as yet another step for Valve toward its bigger goal of popularizing accessible Linux-based gaming." Cloudius Systems and the HSA Foundation also joined the Linux Foundation today.

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Incoming YOTLD troll by symbolset · 2013-12-04 05:37 · Score: 0, Offtopic

“Mopping Up can be a lot of fun. In the Mopping Up phase, Evangelism’s goal is to put the final nail into the competing technology’s coffin, and bury it in the burning depths of the earth. Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, “he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2.” Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition’s technology part of the mythology of the computer industry.” –James Plamondon, Microsoft
Sorry buddy. This revolution will not be stopped. Certainly not by the likes of Burson Marsteller and Waggener Edstrom.
Bonus quote, since I'm here:

“We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger.If you’re going to kill someone, there isn’t much reason to get all worked up about it and angry. You just pull the trigger. Any discussions beforehand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger.” –Jim Allchin, Microsoft’s Platform Group Vice President

Too late this time, buddy.

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1. Re:Incoming YOTLD troll by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 07:02 · Score: 0
  
  Reminds me of how the most incompetent instructor ever (even in a MSSQL certificate program context) was talking about MSSQL, saying "Microsoft does not regard MySQL or IBM's DB2 as competitors at all at this point, the aim is to match Oracle in terms of customer adoption, and seeing as the match is perfect in terms of technology and robustness, it should take no time". When asked about PostgreSQL, his answer was "poswha?". Turns out he's not much into this open source thing, it's against his religion.
Better late than never by ledow · 2013-12-04 05:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

Though I have to say that their announcements are 10 years too late, I feel that Valve's experience of their investing their system in this minority platform must be paying off. Why would they continue otherwise.
They get a viable console OS platform, for "free", with community support. They get a reputation as being "the" Linux gaming vendor (like transgaming etc. were). They get to bring their games to new platforms and push driver issues through Intel etc. cooperation to get themselves some influence in the industry from multiple angles.
And they are obviously seeing that their investment in Linux and even small things like SDL (which I believe is the backend of much of the Steam client, not to mention the browser components they use) is paying dividends for them.
Good on them, I say. It *is* a niche platform, but they are driving it hard and seeing what it can do for them, rather than just waiting until it has 25% market share before they do anything about it (which is the standard attitude among software and hardware companies). And they are doing lots of things they don't NEED to be doing. They've pretty much held off the Windows marketplace junk, so they don't need that 1% of Linux users jumping on board, nor would they make a huge difference even if they hadn't shielded themselves against the Windows Store.
I have used the Linux Steam client. It's just like Steam, but on Linux. I have played some of my games on Linux (88 supported out of 500+), and they work just like they do on Linux (even though that's much more dependent on the software developer, but the Valve titles are especially nice). Big picture mode was needed once we all started having widescreen TV's with HDMI, and it delivers. The next logical step is to make a box that just plays Steam and goes out on HDMI and if you have that kind of backing and prior success on Linux, why pay for Windows (even if that's only true for the first few revisions of the hardware)?
But they've taken it further - rather than just bash out a cheap PC-clone console, they are redesigning controllers, reprogramming their games around them, looking into the new VR trend, and trying to make it a machine that not just they can build. That's going above-and-beyond, as far as I'm concerned, so they deserve recognition for it, even if they are doing it purely for profit reasons.
The only downside is that people have been saying for 10 years how this should have been started on, and it took too long to get there. But we're there now.
Well done, Valve. Looking forward to buying a Steam console next Christmas when all these XBox and PS crap that I've never touched are just memories.
1. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:02 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  I hope Valve is paying you. If not they really should be.
2. Re:Better late than never by sheehaje · 2013-12-04 06:03 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I hope Steam Machines take enough of a foothold to attract the major studios for developing native Linux games. Right now what is missing is a critical mass. You say you have 88 titles working on Linux - most of them are indie - which is great, but I want 90%+ of my current library to be natively supported. It's going to be an issue if I buy a steam machine and can only get a handful of the titles I play the most working. While streaming may be nice, I will be purposely buying a steam machine so my kids aren't taking over my gaming rig anymore - or just the opposite, so I can play while they are on my gaming rig. So streaming, while a nice option, isn't always going to be of use because you can stream and play from the same machine.
  With that said - I have great hope this will work. Valve will take it's time - and a $700 steam machine in 2014 will cost half that in 2016. So if Valve is willing to stick it out for the long haul - this can really cut into Microsoft and Sony (and Nintendo to a lesser degree)... I'm also eagerly awaiting their controller.
  Now - as far as Valve on the LF - that's just icing on the cake. Any wins for Valve at this point will be wins for Linux in general. And if anyone has used Microsoft's lastest abominations of OS's, that's a win for the PC. Funny thing is, a console may be the best thing for finally seeing Linux on the Desktop.
3. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  Major studios will absolutely develop for native linux. Or at very least people who are developing for the PS4. Both X86 platforms, both running a variant of a Unix kernal. PS4 using a FreeBSD kernal, while obviously SteamOS Linux kernal based but the cross over should be very simple. Which is a fairly radical change for developers from the last generation of consoles.
4. Re:Better late than never by ledow · 2013-12-04 06:15 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Make a good product, make a good customer out of your customers, and you don't have to pay people to advertise it.
  Probably spent more on Steam than I have on my last few PC's combined. And my first purchase took nearly a year after they shut WON down, and I only created the account to carry on playing CS 1.6 online.
  Fact is, make a good enough product and treat your customers well and you don't have to buy ANYONE, they'll give you a positive review and backing all of their own accord.
5. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:17 · Score: 0
  
  While streaming may be nice, I will be purposely buying a steam machine so my kids aren't taking over my gaming rig anymore - or just the opposite, so I can play while they are on my gaming rig.
  This will only work with a separate steam account. Why? Because the family sharing functionality, last I checked, makes your entire library of games available to another account you have invited to share your content. The instant you log in to your account (the master/parent account), the person accessing it (client) gets a message that says they'll get kicked out soon. You can't both use it simultaneously. And you certainly won't be able to log in with the same account on both devices at the same time.
  A huge market opportunity for Valve in the Steam Box is parents or family members setting up a new account and rebuying tons of games so that both the gaming pc and the steam box can operate at the same time.
  Honestly, the whole family sharing thing is a waste of time if they don't change it to actually be useful to families (or anyone at all).
6. Re:Better late than never by sheehaje · 2013-12-04 06:21 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I don't really fully get your gripe. Why would Valve release SteamOS/Machines with just their games in mind? This is not what they've stated at all - and besides games they say there will be streaming media services available too (Maybe Netflix for Linux is finally coming)... There are already some developers lining up to produce triple A titles on the console - I'm just wondering how many.
  While Valve has dragged their feet on their games they haven't done so with the Steam platform. In fact, just this past year they've introduced Big Picture, Steam for Linux, Family Sharing (in beta) and a slew of updates. They definitely aren't standing still and making empty announcements.
7. Re:Better late than never by somersault · 2013-12-04 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  Why am I going to buy a locked down set top box from Valve to play Steam games when I can do the same thing on my PC now?
  Oh gee, I guess you figured out a problem in their plan - I can't believe they didn't notice that!
  Either that or you're not part of their intended market.
  
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  which is totally what she said
8. Re:Better late than never by recoiledsnake · 2013-12-04 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  But does it run Linux.
  
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  This space for rent.
9. Re:Better late than never by sl4shd0rk · 2013-12-04 06:56 · Score: 2
  
  But they've taken it further - rather than just bash out a cheap PC-clone console, they are redesigning controllers, reprogramming their games around them, looking into the new VR trend
  That's called "innovative". Proprietary systems try their best to keep you from innovating by locking you out and selling you a 'black box'. This way, they are the only innovators and you stay the customer paying yearly maintenance contracts. Good for Valve.
  
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10. Re:Better late than never by TWiTfan · 2013-12-04 07:02 · Score: 2
  
  Now they just need some games. My suggestion is that they convince whatever studio did "Portal 2" to port that over to Linux, for example.
  
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11. Re:Better late than never by Wootery · 2013-12-04 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Major studios will absolutely develop for native linux. Or at very least people who are developing for the PS4. Both X86 platforms, both running a variant of a Unix kernal. PS4 using a FreeBSD kernal, while obviously SteamOS Linux kernal based but the cross over should be very simple. Which is a fairly radical change for developers from the last generation of consoles.
  There's also the issue of the graphics-library. I'm not whether PS4 games will be developed with anything like standard OpenGL. On the PS3, there was 'libgcm', which was a low-level graphics library intended specifically for the PS3 platform.
12. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 07:35 · Score: 0
  
  Make a good product, make a good customer out of your customers, and you don't have to pay people to advertise it.
  Back in the day, Google didn't spend any on advertising their search engine. You learned about it from a friend, and after you saw how good search results were, you recommended them. Now, not so much.
  (I found about about Google via an Scientific American article.)
13. Re:Better late than never by jkomusin · 2013-12-04 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  I found out about Google via the "So did you hear about how big a google[sic] is??? It's like A HUNDRED ZEROS" comments that were pretty popular at the time.
14. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 08:05 · Score: 0
  
  You mean Valve?
  *cough*
15. Re:Better late than never by ledow · 2013-12-04 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  I found out about a search engine (back in the days when the best you had was a "web directory" that some guy hand-maintained) because my brother was talking to the guys who were writing it at the time on open newsgroups. It was unheard of and still just a uni project back then, turned out to be quite huge, and we used it for years until something better came along (which we heard by word-of-mouth from friends, not a banner-ad or shill-piece).
  It's true what you say.
16. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  > Google didn't spend any on advertising their search engine.
  That's utter bullshit, they used to pay commissions if you embedded Google search into your site. Google bought a lot of traffic in their early days.
17. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 08:40 · Score: 0
  
  This is a good point. I just (stupidly) assumed that Portal 2 was already ported over. What is the deal Valve?
18. Re:Better late than never by Nrrqshrr · 2013-12-04 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  Funny how making a good product to get a lot of satisfied costumers became such a vintage concept...
19. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 09:48 · Score: 0
  
  There are already some developers lining up to produce triple A titles on the console - I'm just wondering how many.
  Like who? I'm in the industry and practically all of the major studios are taking a wait and see approach. None of the top studios are currently porting anything to Linux, and we definitely won't be seeing EA, Bioware, Bethesda, Activision, Ubisoft, Treyarch, Infinity Ward, DICE, Rockstar, Crytek, Bungie, Naughty Dog etc. porting anything to Linux anytime soon. Without their support I think this is going to be a really hard sell.
  It also doesn't help that the Linux stats on Steam are far below practically everyone's expectations. Linux barely breaks 1% most months.
20. Re:Better late than never by exomondo · 2013-12-04 10:49 · Score: 2
  
  Major studios will absolutely develop for native linux. Or at very least people who are developing for the PS4. Both X86 platforms, both running a variant of a Unix kernal. PS4 using a FreeBSD kernal, while obviously SteamOS Linux kernal based but the cross over should be very simple.
  But the kernels are different, firstly one is BSD-based and the other is Linux. It's foolish to think there wouldn't be significant optimizations in areas like the scheduler on the PS4 kernel to target the predominantly single-task gaming focus of the console, not to mention the differences in drivers and the different (and sometimes proprietary) frameworks used like libgcm and psgl. That they're both operating systems with unix-based kernels does very little for application portability.
21. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 11:17 · Score: 0
  
  It *is* a niche platform
  It's a niche platform now.
  Their marketing approach is obvious: Target the younger person who considers gaming a priority, deeply appreciates a $120 savings on the OS, and whose secondary needs for their computer can be satisfied by FOSS. That market could have huge potential. If Valve can grow and conquer that market, it could be a very lucrative business for them.
  If we ever have a "year of the Linux desktop", it will be because a for-profit company took a big risk and made it happen. Gaming seems like the most likely catalyst. Microsoft knows how to put the screws to corporate IT to lock them in, but they have zero leverage with a whole new generation of kids who just want a good-value gaming PC. The revolution will start with the young, as it always does.
22. Re:Better late than never by unimind · 2013-12-04 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  Valve will need to release a kick-ass flagship title (HL3 perhaps?) when or soon after the Steambox is released that is popular enough to get the Steambox into enough living rooms that larger studios will find it worth while to develop for. They probably should release it as a Steambox exclusive at first, too. If they can do that, they'll have a chance at really getting it off the ground and competing with the other consoles. One can hope (if one is of the orientation) that this would result in some additional momentum for Steam on Linux in general and, by extension, Linux on the desktop.
  
  --
  The following statement is true: The previous statement is false.
23. Re:Better late than never by realityimpaired · 2013-12-04 14:48 · Score: 2
  
  You say you have 88 titles working on Linux - most of them are indie - which is great, but I want 90%+ of my current library to be natively supported.
  As of this writing, there are 408 Linux titles in the Steam library.
  http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/
  I agree that they need more titles, but they are working on it. More are added every day. And yes, much of it is indie titles, the same holds true for the Windows and Mac libraries of games too. And some of the titles that are out on Linux are AAA titles... the latest incarnation of the Metro series (4A, formerly a THQ title) is available on Linux, as is the latest incarnation of Sega's Football Manager series, just to name a couple. Steam for Linux is gaining traction, and has the attention of some of the bigger names in gaming. It'll be a while before studios like EA take notice, but once they do, it won't take them long to jump on the bandwagon... Porting their titles from PS3 to Linux is probably easier than porting to Windows. ;)
  Anecdotally? I've spent more on gaming in the last 6 months than I have in the last 3 years, and every single title I've bought has been a Linux-native title though Steam. I realize that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but I doubt very much that I'm the only one who feels this way.
24. Re:Better late than never by realityimpaired · 2013-12-04 14:53 · Score: 1
  
  If we ever have a "year of the Linux desktop", it will be because a for-profit company took a big risk and made it happen. Gaming seems like the most likely catalyst. Microsoft knows how to put the screws to corporate IT to lock them in, but they have zero leverage with a whole new generation of kids who just want a good-value gaming PC. The revolution will start with the young, as it always does.
  Microsoft still got some money out of me for my Linux-based gaming machine.... the XBox 360 USB controller is still probably the best on the market for a PC, and it's natively supported in Linux. Many of the games I've bought through Steam are very happy to let me play with the controller. ;)
25. Re:Better late than never by exomondo · 2013-12-04 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  There are already some developers lining up to produce triple A titles on the console
  Which developers would they be?
26. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 15:23 · Score: 0
  
  deeply appreciates a $120 savings on the OS
  Nobody is paying $120 for the OS.
  
  That market could have huge potential.
  It always has, but it has never taken off and PC gaming is hardly going to drive it. If the only advantage is that you don't have the heavily discounted, bundled OS of which you could pick up an OEM copy for $25 then this will fail.
  
  If Valve can grow and conquer that market, it could be a very lucrative business for them.
  In what business model? Selling locked down hardware? Unless this move brings in additional gamers (that is not taking them from the established Windows userbase) or is done with lockin to a proprietary box or proprietary steam platform (steam atop whatever OS) then I don't see this being lucrative at all.
  
  Microsoft knows how to put the screws to corporate IT to lock them in, but they have zero leverage with a whole new generation of kids who just want a good-value gaming PC.
  Saving the bundled OS is nothing, the Linux revolution on smartphones came about because they offered something beneficial where this system doesnt. We have already seen this with Ouya, just a platform for cheap indie games.
27. Re:Better late than never by MarkRose · 2013-12-04 16:33 · Score: 1
  
  You are not alone. I've spent more on games in the last 2 months than I had in the prior 15 years. All thanks to Steam on Linux.
  
  --
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28. Re:Better late than never by ildon · 2013-12-04 19:29 · Score: 2
  
  It's not shilling and it's not astroturf. Millions of gamers feel this way about Valve and Steam simply because they like the products and services they've been provided, and they like the general corporate attitude they've seen from Valve.
29. Re:Better late than never by ameen.ross · 2013-12-04 21:09 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder what company you are representing...
  
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30. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 23:14 · Score: 0
  
  Lots of reports that it's in a beta somewhere. Testers report lots of glitches still, so if any of this can be believed, it's coming, it's just not there yet.
  I sure hope so, because I already bought it.
31. Re:Better late than never by paulatz · 2013-12-05 00:41 · Score: 1
  
  (I found about about Google via an Scientific American article.)
  I found it on altavista, while looking for something else
  
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  this post contain no useful information, no need to mod it down
32. Re:Better late than never by sheehaje · 2013-12-05 01:04 · Score: 1
  
  Sega (I know it's a publisher) has a few of there titles either all ready ported to Linux or is going to port to SteamOS (Total War: Rome III)
  The Metro series is being ported - which while 4A Studios isn't a huge name, their publisher (Deep Silver) definitely has some AAA titles under belt (Saints Row to name the top one).
  Of course Valve has ported some of their titles, and more importantly the Source Engine. I'm sure their full catalogue will be ready to go soon. Don't underestimate that - Counter Strike is still one of the most played online games going, and so it DotA now.
  One last one I'll include is Brutal Legend - yes it's old. Yes it's wasn't wildly popular - but it's another engine successfully ported.
  Yes - I know this is a small sample. And like I said in an earlier post - I wonder about critical mass. If anyone can pull it off though, it is Steam. I remember Loki Games trying to achieve critical mass - they ported games like Myth and Railroad Tycoon and Heretic. I still have about 10 of their ports. Unfortunately - they didn't get critical mass - and most importantly they didn't get first day titles to release. The back library will be important for SteamOS/Machines - but even more important will be the ability to get AAA titles released on par with the big 3 (Sony, MS, Nintendo).
33. Re:Better late than never by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-05 01:40 · Score: 0
  
  Millions also don't.
  The only way I'll have respect for Valve again is when they roll back their highly intrusive DRM, it's only a slightly less bad version of what Microsoft originally proposed for the XBox One.
  They've been the single most prominent vehicle in establishing phone home DRM in the history of gaming and making it the standard.
  I don't get why Slashdot is so quick to slag off EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, Sony et. al. for their DRM but worship the likes of Valve and Blizzard whose DRM is unparalleled nowadays in terms of restrictiveness and intrusiveness.
  Valve are only interested in Linux because they saw the Windows Store as a threat to Steam. Given that Windows Store is an abysmal failure I wouldn't be surprised to see Microsoft drop it, and if Microsoft drop it Valve will just stop caring about Linux again.
  The only major games company that's ever genuinely given a shit about Linux and FOSS in general is id Software that at least provided official Linux ports and open sourced it's old games.
  Even the PS4 and XBox One are now less restrictive than Steam. That's pretty fucking embarrassing, but no, it's a reason for worship here for some god unknown reason.
  All Valve is going to do is bring their DRM to pollute Linux. Great.
34. Re:Better late than never by ildon · 2013-12-05 15:26 · Score: 1
  
  It only takes one person who likes a piece of software to write a post promoting or defending it. It doesn't make them a paid shill.
Games on linux by Nemura · 2013-12-04 05:47 · Score: 1, Interesting

Maybe we can completely get rid of windows in the future if all games are playable on GNU/Linux.
1. Re:Games on linux by i+kan+reed · 2013-12-04 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  Well, you'll take approximately 2 centuries to push corporate America off a monopoly that took 2 decades to develop, but if enough games ran on linux, I could easily see being done with windows at home. Especially given Windows 8.
2. Re:Games on linux by nhat11 · 2013-12-04 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  I go to where ever there's a large performance, choices and stability gains are so if Linux meets that, I'll go there but currently, Linux doesn't have the choices and windows is stable and the performance increase in Linux compare to windows isn't that huge.
3. Re:Games on linux by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  Depends on what you're doing. For standard browsing, etc., Linux wins in both speed and stability. For memory-intensive duties like encoding, Windows doesn't hold a candle. For office/productivity suites, it's really a tossup, and is more about your interface preferences and portability demands than anything else. For gaming... yeah, I boot my Windows install.
4. Re:Games on linux by mark-t · 2013-12-04 06:27 · Score: 2
  
  Right... like it took DVD's centuries to knock VHS off.... oh, wait. No it didn't.
  When an alternative presents enough advantages over what may have formerly and for all practical purposes been a monopoly in any given sector or industry, it doesn't take that long for the public to realize it and switch.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
5. Re:Games on linux by David_Hart · 2013-12-04 06:32 · Score: 2
  
  Maybe we can completely get rid of windows in the future if all games are playable on GNU/Linux.
  The answer is: No...
  As I see it, the Steam eco-system will be no different than the current consoles (XBox, PS4). The Steam boxes will have the advantage over the consoles of higher-end graphics, game controllers, etc. Windows boxes not only support higher-end gaming but also a wide variety of applications. A gaming rig can, and usually is, also used for gaming, photo editing, finances, and many other applications. Much like tablets, it's all about the apps...
  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see the expansion of gaming. However, Steam is not the savior of the Linux desktop. In my opinion, It will be just another console...
6. Re:Games on linux by i+kan+reed · 2013-12-04 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  That's not comparable at all. Hardware is cheap to replace, custom software isn't.
7. Re:Games on linux by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:51 · Score: 0
  
  If -- and that's a big if -- they pull this off such that "SteamOS" games are actually portable to Steam Linux, and not just earmarked for the console, then it's very possible that this could be a death knell for Windows in the home. Sure, business will be stuck with the monolith for the foreseeable future, but there are a fair number of home users who haven't made the switch entirely due to game developer lock-in.
  Even as a Unix admin by trade, I've found it hard to kick the Windows addiction because it's attached at the hip to any modern PC game. Were Linux to transition to a reliable and stable gaming platform, I would finally be able to cut the last bonds of Microsoft and truly be free... and you can wager safely that I'm not the only one waiting on this development.
8. Re:Games on linux by timmyf2371 · 2013-12-04 06:53 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  DVD replaced VHS because it offered vastly superior video playback quality as well as many other advantages.
  Linux does have some advantages over Windows, but the reverse is also true. Windows also has an entrenched position in workplaces as well as in the home.
  Having first tried Linux on the desktop about 14 years ago and having continued to follow its development, along with the progress of Windows, I don't see any evidence which suggest Linux is suddenly going to acquire so many advantages over Windows any time soon.
  
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9. Re:Games on linux by RazorSharp · 2013-12-04 06:54 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I believe what he was trying to say is that corporate America is unlikely to wean itself off of the Microsoft monopoly anytime soon, but Microsoft's stranglehold of the consumer market is vulnerable if gaming is taken away. Apple has dug deep into one important niche -- the non-gaming, high-end users -- and Steam on Linux has the potential to knock off the gaming niche. This is important because those two niches are where the high dollars are spent.
  So while you're right, that the consumer market has the potential change quickly, I think he's correct in pointing out that corporate America will largely remain latched on to Microsoft for the foreseeable future. Two centuries is a bit of a hyperbole, but corporations are much slower to change up the technologies they depend on than individuals. An individual has to set up a new computer. A corporation has to set up thousands of new computers, write software, train people, etc. In the long term, I see specialized Linux systems becoming the standard in most corporations, but it's also probably the stranglehold Microsoft will keep within its grasp longer than any other.
  
  --
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10. Re:Games on linux by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 07:01 · Score: 0
  
  CDs came out in the 60s IIRC. How long did it take to kill tape?
11. Re:Games on linux by GreatDrok · 2013-12-04 07:23 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Hmmm, mod points or comment..... Oh well.
  "The answer is: No...
  As I see it, the Steam eco-system will be no different than the current consoles (XBox, PS4). The Steam boxes will have the advantage over the consoles of higher-end graphics, game controllers, etc. Windows boxes not only support higher-end gaming but also a wide variety of applications. A gaming rig can, and usually is, also used for gaming, photo editing, finances, and many other applications. Much like tablets, it's all about the apps...
  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see the expansion of gaming. However, Steam is not the savior of the Linux desktop. In my opinion, It will be just another console..."
  At some point the market will decide there are too many choices. This happened back in the 1980s when there were loads of different types of home computer and eventually they got thinned out through the 90's until Windows PCs were basically it. Valve is likely to turn console gaming on its head if they can get a sufficiently console like experience in place (Big Picture is close but enough games don't work with it that I still have to keep a keyboard and mouse close at hand) and enough AAA games come to it. Certainly, the market is saturated with PS4/XBone and then SteamBox and of the three I wish the SteamBox most success because it already has a massive game library compared to the other two, plus you can upgrade your hardware and keep your games. That's a killer improvement.
  As for Windows, the main reason people use it is applications. When I talk to people about why they don't use Linux or Mac on the desktop there are largely viable replacements for the apps they use (especially true with the Mac) but games always come up as the main reason. Take that away and Windows is severely weakened in the market. Sure, it will hang on for a long time especially in corporate environments but these days home users have very little need for a PC when a tablet can do their social communications and a games console can do the gaming. I have a Mac and a PC (Win 7) at home and I barely use either because I have to actually go over and sit in front of them. Sure, I use my work Mac in the office all day but in my off time I don't want to sit at a desk. Steam on any computer is OK but it still can't be totally driven without a keyboard and mouse so maybe Valve's new controller can fix that (I hope so) in which case I'll leave my Windows box in Big Picture mode all the time and enjoy my games from the couch in full 1080p or more when I next upgrade and I won't lose my library. With SteamOS taking on more of the games I already own, a wipe to that is in the future for my PC and I'll keep the Mac for the boring stuff like work.
  MS is desperately trying to remain relevant but they're bouncing around taking shots at everyone in sight because all these little devices are pulling the eyes away from their platform. Windows 8 has done little to improve things because it looks and works so badly unless you tweak the hell out of it with Classic Shell to get rid of the nightmare modern interface and restore it to something that looks and behaves more like Windows used to.
  Sitting here at my Mac I have VMs for many different Linux distros, various versions of Windows too but I run OS X because I can run everything on it either native or via some form of emulation. Games aren't really the Mac's forte but that's OK as I don't want to sit in front of a keyboard to play games and I want a viable replacement for my current Xbox 360 (which I dislike more with every update) and MS just burned the Xbox platform by releasing the One without any backwards compatibility. Similarly, Sony's PS4 has no library and the price of games have gone up another 15-20% over the already outrageous prices so no sale there either as I can't pick up cheap back catalogue stuff to fill out the collection. Pity, I had hoped to play many of the PS3 exclusives and as it stands I'll likely buy a PS3 cheap at some point soonish to do that. I also just bough
  
  --
  "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
12. Re:Games on linux by ichthus · 2013-12-04 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  YDRC. Prototypes were developed in the late 70's, and they were commercially available in 1982.
  
  --
  sig: sauer
13. Re:Games on linux by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 08:30 · Score: 0
  
  Steam on Linux has seen stability issues. After the latest TF2 update, it's been crash city. Great to see them committing to the platform. Now they need to listen to users like you and make sure the stability and performance are up to par. Fingers crossed!
14. Re:Games on linux by ledow · 2013-12-04 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  Direct Android compatibility.
  (Potentially)
  What smartphone / tablet type has the greatest marketshare again?
15. Re:Games on linux by David_Hart · 2013-12-04 10:14 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  As for Windows, the main reason people use it is applications. When I talk to people about why they don't use Linux or Mac on the desktop there are largely viable replacements for the apps they use (especially true with the Mac) but games always come up as the main reason. Take that away and Windows is severely weakened in the market.
  I agree that the creation of a gaming eco-system for Macs would make the choice between Windows and OSX much more even. However, there are still a number of apps, especially for tracking finances and stocks, that are not available for OSX. Granted, you can run parallels or VMs (like you do), but your average computer user wouldn't know that. Also, while Steam may work to create a gaming device infrastructure, there is no guarantee that Apple would provide support. After all, they do try to keep their eco-system relatively closed.
  
  Sure, it will hang on for a long time especially in corporate environments but these days home users have very little need for a PC when a tablet can do their social communications and a games console can do the gaming.
  If that's all a user does, then I would agree with you. However, a lot of people do use their PC's for more than just social communication.
  
  I have a Mac and a PC (Win 7) at home and I barely use either because I have to actually go over and sit in front of them. Sure, I use my work Mac in the office all day but in my off time I don't want to sit at a desk. Steam on any computer is OK but it still can't be totally driven without a keyboard and mouse so maybe Valve's new controller can fix that (I hope so) in which case I'll leave my Windows box in Big Picture mode all the time and enjoy my games from the couch in full 1080p or more when I next upgrade and I won't lose my library. With SteamOS taking on more of the games I already own, a wipe to that is in the future for my PC and I'll keep the Mac for the boring stuff like work.
  MS is desperately trying to remain relevant but they're bouncing around taking shots at everyone in sight because all these little devices are pulling the eyes away from their platform. Windows 8 has done little to improve things because it looks and works so badly unless you tweak the hell out of it with Classic Shell to get rid of the nightmare modern interface and restore it to something that looks and behaves more like Windows used to.
  Sitting here at my Mac I have VMs for many different Linux distros, various versions of Windows too but I run OS X because I can run everything on it either native or via some form of emulation. Games aren't really the Mac's forte but that's OK as I don't want to sit in front of a keyboard to play games and I want a viable replacement for my current Xbox 360 (which I dislike more with every update) and MS just burned the Xbox platform by releasing the One without any backwards compatibility. Similarly, Sony's PS4 has no library and the price of games have gone up another 15-20% over the already outrageous prices so no sale there either as I can't pick up cheap back catalogue stuff to fill out the collection. Pity, I had hoped to play many of the PS3 exclusives and as it stands I'll likely buy a PS3 cheap at some point soonish to do that. I also just bought a WiiU because Nintendo is still innovating and it plays my current Wii games so we already have stuff to play along with the couple of WiiU games we got and you can pop them off the TV onto the controller screen. That's cool. PS4 and Xbox One? No back catalogue, expensive games, sub-PC graphics and all that lovely DRM. Nope, don't think so.
  The reasons that you stated are why I prefer PC gaming to the consoles, though I have the WII, XBox 360, and PS3. With the PC I do not lose my gaming library. As for gaming in front of the TV, I bought the Microsoft PC wireless gamepad controller adapter for my desktop. This allows me to sit on the couch and game using my PC.
  I haven't made up my mind about getting the new consoles yet. It'll depend on what my brother-in-law decides to do as we share video games. Today, he has the PS3 and is planning on sticking with it.
16. Re:Games on linux by jones_supa · 2013-12-04 11:41 · Score: 1
  
  I go to where ever there's a large performance, choices and stability gains are so if Linux meets that, I'll go there but currently, Linux doesn't have the choices and windows is stable and the performance increase in Linux compare to windows isn't that huge.
  Linux has lost the performance battle already. If you want a fast and responsive desktop, Windows is much better choice than Linux these days. Of course on servers and number crunching, Linux still mops the floor.
17. Re:Games on linux by realityimpaired · 2013-12-04 15:01 · Score: 1
  
  Linux does have some advantages over Windows, but the reverse is also true. Windows also has an entrenched position in workplaces as well as in the home.
  YMMV, but as far as the office/corporate world goes, my experience is that in recent years businesses have realized how screwed they'd be if Microsoft puts out a dud, and have been shifting towards platform independence and web-based tools. It started with Vista, but businesses were able to skip Vista and go to 7 (and some of 'em are still using XP), and most of what I've heard is that businesses don't like Windows 8. Because of this, they've been moving towards separating themselves from the need to have a specific platform. If 9 is as bad as 8, then it'll be the final nail in the coffin.
  For my work, for example, most of the tools I use no longer require a Windows environment. We do have a handful of system monitoring tools that were written specifically for Internet Explorer, but those tools are becoming few and far between, and we can always use citrix for those while we transition. Within a couple of years, it will probably be quite easy to make the business case for at least giving users the option of whether they want Windows, Mac, or Linux, if not transitioning to one of the non-Windows platforms entirely.
18. Re:Games on linux by exomondo · 2013-12-04 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  Direct Android compatibility.
  Doubtful, you can't make incompatible Android forks and still be part of the OHA so you will always be behind on support and that also means you don't get Google Play Services upon which many Android apps will be relying given it is the provider of much of the new features for Android now. But even then, why would you want to run those applications on your PC or console? It's just a clunky experience to use a program designed for a touchscreen phone on a device with a kb/mouse or controller.
19. Re:Games on linux by nhat11 · 2013-12-12 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  Well I meant specifically to gaming since we're talking about games
They have the clout to make GPU vendors play nice by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 05:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

Agree with Steam's business model or not, having Valve of all companies pushing gaming on Linux is going to reap enormous benefits for completely unrelated features.
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by symbolset · 2013-12-04 06:00 · Score: 1

I did not post the parent comment. Just so you know.
A Steambox will be a worthy addition to our home entertainment system. I trust Valve to put together a compelling experience.
With Valve's commitment to the Linux Foundation more game houses should see interest in Linux as a gaming platform, and more manufacturers will hopefully look to bring the unique benefits of their products to this growing ecosystem. This can only be good for competition.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
This is a good thing! by larry+bagina · 2013-12-04 06:25 · Score: 1

I imagine a massive influx of new kernel developers. Let's be honest -- most gamers will probably tweak and recompile their kernel to eek out a few cycles of improvements on tcp, memory allocation, graphics performance, context switching etc. Some of them will probably keep their patches to themselves (it's all about the frags) but some will probably get involved. I just hope Linus and other maintainers can avoid being total douchebags.

--
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
1. Re:This is a good thing! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:50 · Score: 0
  
  most gamers will probably tweak and recompile their kernel
  You have no clue who "most gamers" is, do you?
2. Re:This is a good thing! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 09:55 · Score: 0
  
  I imagine a massive influx of new kernel developers
  That's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read on Slashdot.
3. Re:This is a good thing! by jones_supa · 2013-12-04 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine a massive influx of new kernel developers. Let's be honest -- most gamers will probably tweak and recompile their kernel to eek out a few cycles of improvements on tcp, memory allocation, graphics performance, context switching etc. Some of them will probably keep their patches to themselves (it's all about the frags) but some will probably get involved. I just hope Linus and other maintainers can avoid being total douchebags.
  Only very few people have the skills to do that. Even just performing the kernel build process properly can be a daunting task for newbies. Not to mention actual tweaking of the kernel which requires quite deep understanding of software development and how the particular module or driver works.
4. Re:This is a good thing! by iiiears · 2013-12-04 12:53 · Score: 1
  
  Kernel hacking + Debugger + Virtual Machine + DRM blobs filled with Polymorphic code.
  There will be a better understanding of the kernel by a few very determined researchers / hackers.
  My question: If you spent a couple hundred hours rewriting DRM will you share it?
  
  --
  15TW = 15,000 Nuclear Reactors. (Approx. one accident a month.)
Not a kernel problem by Daniel+Hoffmann · 2013-12-04 06:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

I don't think it is not a problem of kernel level. I believe most devs that do multi-platform use multi-platform SDKs that support xbox360, ps3 and windows only (soon to be xboxOne, ps4 and windows only). That is the reason they don't do Mac either even though macs have a pretty big userbase. What Valve needs is not to get the devs, but the SDK makers.
By SDK I mean the tools, the havok physics engine, the unreal engine, the cry engine and so on.
1. Re:Not a kernel problem by sheehaje · 2013-12-04 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  They did port there own Source Engine with great success. While Source isn't the latest and greatest - they did at least show it was possible without reinventing the wheel. Also, there are a ton of titles on Steam based on Valves own source engine.
  I don't think the hoops they have to jump through are as small as they used to be - especially now that the driver situation is starting to be ironed out.
2. Re:Not a kernel problem by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  Again those SDK's/Tools will already have to be made up correctly to interface with the PS4 OS and architecture. It means it is much closer to a "Linux" option.
  Also you say Mac has a "large user base" but they do not. Mac personal computers account for 7.73% of the market as of 2012, and of those an even smaller amount interested in the type of gaming being offered by major studios.
3. Re:Not a kernel problem by Daniel+Hoffmann · 2013-12-04 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  Well that is true, but it did take them a long time to port the engine and after porting the engine they need to port each game individually and QA everything all over again. They have a big incentive to get this linux bandwagon going but the other tool makers have no incentive whatsoever, for all they care they want the smallest amount of supported platforms possible because it is cheaper for them to develop and QA that way.
  The other tool makers will only get in on the action AFTER the user base gets big which if valve and indie are the only things driving the linux gaming forwards will take a LONG time.
4. Re:Not a kernel problem by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 07:43 · Score: 0
  
  As with (almost) all business, customers drive what is implemented. And the engine developer's customers are not users.
  They are the game developers. And if the game developers say "well, but what about SteamOS? What if it's big in one year an I'll lose out on all those sales?". Then you either convince them it's not going to happen (and depending on your customer, good luck convincing them they don't need a thing) or you support it. Once there is a "good enough" SDK supporting Linux/SteamOS, it could get _very_ hard for the others to retain their customers without it, whether it's of any relevance or not.
  Not saying it has to happen this way, but user base is not necessarily what matters (otherwise I think Windows Phone would be long dead), but also expectations and hedging your bets, especially by your customers who don't have to (directly) pay for it.
5. Re:Not a kernel problem by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  If you look at home computers (not work) in the US/EU, the Mac percentage is significantly higher. Mac users tend not to have the GPUs that certain AAA titles require though.
  Even then, many Mac games are just the Win32 version with some official WINE wrapper integrated. Expect most Linux game ports to be similar.
6. Re:Not a kernel problem by Metal_Militia · 2013-12-04 19:31 · Score: 1
  
  By SDK I mean the tools, the havok physics engine, the unreal engine, the cry engine and so on.
  Well, Crytek is already porting its 3d engine :-)
  http://www.geek.com/games/crytek-is-porting-cryengine-to-linux-1562557/
Does this change where the future of Linux is? by Mister+Liberty · 2013-12-04 06:30 · Score: 3, Funny

I kinda grew fond of it being on the Desktop.
1. Re:Does this change where the future of Linux is? by RazorSharp · 2013-12-04 06:56 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  The future of Linux: on all devices. You should check out my toaster.
  
  --
  "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
2. Re:Does this change where the future of Linux is? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 09:37 · Score: 0
  
  I prefer running iOS in my toaster so my bread doesn't get viruses.
3. Re:Does this change where the future of Linux is? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 13:54 · Score: 0
  
  I prefer running iOS in my toaster so my bread doesn't get viruses.
  But how do you get your toast out without jail breaking the toaster?
4. Re:Does this change where the future of Linux is? by antdude · 2013-12-04 19:12 · Score: 1
  
  I didn't know Cylons run on Linux. They sure do have a plan.
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by mark-t · 2013-12-04 06:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

The only one that I can think of right offhand, Unity3D, might export to a Linux-playable format, but does not actually provide any environment that can be run within Linux. There is, as far as I am aware, absolutely no intent to change this anytime soon. This design decision carries some problems with it that inherently make it highly unlikely to expect it to significantly increase the Linux mind-share in the world of gaming.

--
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
1. Re:Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  I have Unity 4.3 editor open now and I have a publish option "linux stanalone" (just starting with it but I belive it just embeds the Mono Runtime when publishing to most platforms)
2. Re:Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by ledow · 2013-12-04 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  If you can't cross-compile a game to a Linux binary, then you're not really programming properly. Game authoring tools are for apps, and if your app-maker can't make apps for Android, iPad, etc. just as easily as having a plugin, then you've most likely exhausted its capabilities long ago.
  Any sort of big-name title, the worry is more about the underlying engine, e.g. DirectX vs OpenGL, etc. than anything to do with just pressing a button and out pops a binary.
  If you can manage to write a Windows game and then a Mac port or an Android app of it, then chances are you can target any platform you like as easily as anything. If you didn't, the problem isn't lack of tools to do so.
3. Re:Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by LoRdTAW · 2013-12-04 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  I bet most of the problem lies in the fact that the developers of these tools are hopelessly addicted to .net and Visual Studio. These tools are probably written in C# and are closely tied to complex GUI's that have hundreds of elements based on Windows Forms or WPF. If you tell them they have to switch to a new GUI toolkit for cross platform, abandon Visual Studio and have to change a lot of the code to be more *nix friendly, they will vomit blood.
  If they wanted to be cross platform from the start they would have used a more cross platform friendly language, GUI toolkits and ditch the whole IDE workflow for one using build scripts and a syntax aware text editor (IDE's suck).
  When I say the following, believe me I am not bashing anyone, just pointing out a fact: Microsoft's tools make programmers lazy. Install Visual Studio, create a new project and you're off to building a program and everything is a click away.
4. Re:Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by mark-t · 2013-12-04 14:34 · Score: 1
  
  Unity 4.3 doesn't run under Linux either... it requires you to have a mac or windows box to develop with. You can target a Linux platform for your game binary with it, but the fact that the development tools aren't available for Linux suggests to me its ability to target that platform is unlikely to generate any significant increase in Linux use for games.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
5. Re:Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by kayoshiii · 2013-12-04 15:41 · Score: 1
  
  Currently your best bet is Unigine. Currently it has better engine but worse tooling than Unity and a 12 month license is in the same ballpark as a Unity Pro License. You probably want at least one programmer in your team if you go this route though. I will say that Linux is absolutely a first class citizen as an Authoring platform for games. I have about 5 years experience Authoring using Unigine on Linux.
  If you don't have a coder or the cash and you can hang in there for about a month LeadWorks is in the process of porting. As far as I can tell they are aiming for something similar to Unity. I put money into the kickstarter and am waiting for my copy before I can say more about it.
6. Re:Are there any decent Linuxgame authoring tools? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-05 03:30 · Score: 0
  
  http://openrpgmaker.sourceforge.net/index.html
  OpenRPG Maker is a fairly well developed and decently mature tool. If you don't mind the rather specific genre it is designed for, not bad at all.
  http://code.google.com/p/ares/
  Ares Ed is under development, but uses Crystalspace for it's backend, and has a good amount of potential.
Just one gaming customer perspective by jirikivaari · 2013-12-04 06:37 · Score: 1

I would switch on my upcoming desktop from Windows to Linux if all my games would work on it, and also some other things like Adobe tools. I'd much rather have Linux for work-related reasons than Windows on my desktop.
If Steam could get Linux Support for a lot of games, it could put Windows between rock and the hard place with gamers. They seem to be making this SteamOS to be something like playstation, but I hope they could also bring it to the desktop (even if it's a custom-installation). I hope the games they make, also support desktop-based Linux gaming. Playing straight console ports on PC is not worth it. I have no problem with consoles though, but they serve a different style of games.
Although if Apple started shipping some customizable Mac's without double the price of PC hardware (allow proper customization) and Mac supported bigger number of games, I would use Mac over either Linux or Windows on desktop. The perks of Mac just aren't good enough if I have to pay even 30% more for hardware, that is not very suitable for games (I don't need Xeon for gaming), when I can buy a decent PC and OC with 20% of the price tag. Maybe Apple has bad rep among gamers but I think they'd have low-hanging fruit if they started focusing on beating Windows on desktop without catering to some niche market of over-priced furniture buyers. Maybe the money is moving away from PC market but it still seems like a low-hanging fruit for me. Gaming on desktop is still on another level compared to other platforms (some of which are complementary rather than rivalry).
But the devil is in the details, and there's a lot of things that could fail which would make me switch back to Windows in an instant. Something as a simple as inability to turn v-sync off etc. would be major problems for me, but probably not for most of the gamers. Also I imagine any company could fail a lot of things when making an operating system (I'm waiting for C++-esque rant by Torvalds). I hope they bring the right people on board.
1. Re:Just one gaming customer perspective by space_jake · 2013-12-04 07:15 · Score: 2
  
  From what I've read SteamOS is going to be a free standalone OS that you're free to customize and install on any device you want. The Steam Machines Valve will be selling aren't consoles under lock and key, they're just PCs with a form factor more fitting for a living room. SteamOS is supposed to have the ability to stream Windows games from a running Windows box with Steam installed as well. Their new controller, while not likely to completely replace the keyboard and mouse looks pretty promising too. I wouldn't expect them to drive all gaming to controller / console style games.
2. Re:Just one gaming customer perspective by jones_supa · 2013-12-04 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  I would switch on my upcoming desktop from Windows to Linux if all my games would work on it, and also some other things like Adobe tools.
  You're asking for world peace and moon from the sky. Just tune down your requirements a bit. It's practically impossible to get to a situation where all your games would work on it. But we might reach a point where you get a reasonable dose of excellent Linux games to keep you constantly entertained. What comes to Adobe artistic tools, it's really hard to tell if Adobe will port them to Linux at some point or not. For now it just cannot be expected to happen. Maybe for some tasks you could get along with GIMP, or possibly make some Adobe apps run properly under Wine.
3. Re:Just one gaming customer perspective by Daniel+Hoffmann · 2013-12-05 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  Mouse acceleration. You can not turn it totally turn it off on ubuntu! Some games do go through directly to the hardware to get the mouse, but I wonder how that will work on Linux.
Bye bye windows by aprdm · 2013-12-04 06:41 · Score: 1

That's really cool! I will finally be able to replace my notebook S.O, only reason i still keep the windows around is to play some games.
Here's the game changer... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 06:55 · Score: 0

Star Citizen. This is the game I've been waiting my whole life for. Make that the launch title for the Steam Box and the only thing left to do is profit!
1. Re:Here's the game changer... by ledow · 2013-12-04 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  Likely to be pushed out of sight by the Elite:Dangerous kick starter that was successful earlier this year, which has David Braben working on it.
  As yet, it's all pretty pictures and talk, but they got Â£2m just from the kickstarter. Star Citizen, in comparison, is something I'd never heard of until you linked it - and seems to have been running for longer.
  (P.S. $2.5m stretch goals to add "an additional flyable ship"?)
  Not that I'm knocking either - hell, I probably want both - but it's going to be a struggle and neither are going to be ready for YEARS.
2. Re:Here's the game changer... by Asmodae · 2013-12-04 12:38 · Score: 1
  
  Elite Dangerous may have raised 2.5 million on the kickstarter, but Star Citizen was 6 million during the kick starter campaign. Funding has continued and Star Citizen is now up to 34 million dollars at the time of this writing and climbing fast. I'm sure you've heard of Wing Commander? Freelancer? Privateer? All Chris Roberts games, who is leading Star Citizen. Might be time to pay a little attention.
Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 07:17 · Score: 0

Perhaps they'll add a Mandatory Binding Arbitration clause to the GPL?! Why the hell not, seems everyone will forget about it in a year, anyways.
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by Wootery · 2013-12-04 07:19 · Score: 0

So you're just posting your comment as a reply in order to move it higher up the thread, then?
i would say cool but by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-04 09:23 · Score: 0

Everytime the linux people get something half way working right someone has a tantrum and the whole thing falls apart again... this may succeed if valve setups their own graphics port........
1. Re:i would say cool but by rubycodez · 2013-12-04 16:08 · Score: 1
  
  I've seen this with Windows too, Microsoft gets things in their UI working half right and then someone over there in Redmond gets a brain fart and the whole thing falls apart again.
As different as Android is from "Linux" by tepples · 2013-12-04 10:17 · Score: 1

PlayStation 4 is based on parts of FreeBSD, but so is OS X. There might be as little userland-facing code shared between a typical FreeBSD with X11 operating system and the PlayStation 4 operating system as there is between FreeBSD and OS X, or between Android and X11/Linux.
Same kernel, different userspace by tepples · 2013-12-04 10:24 · Score: 1

Direct Android compatibility.

(Potentially)
I don't see how. The OpenGL on desktops isn't the same as the OpenGL ES on devices that ship with Android. The input is too different, requiring the entire game to be rebalanced for a touch screen. And in my experience owning three Android devices, audio latency ranges from laggy to unplayable. If all that mattered were the kernel and components close to the kernel, every PS4 game would run on a Mac just because both systems use pieces of FreeBSD.
Remastering a game vs. a movie for a new platform by tepples · 2013-12-04 10:27 · Score: 1

I was under the impression that it took a lot more work to remaster a game for a new platform than to remaster a movie for a new video format. Video conversion is essentially automated once you have the lossless or nearly lossless source data. Game conversion, on the other hand, may need an emulator, and entry-level Steam OS devices might not have enough CPU power to run one.
Game mods on consoles by tepples · 2013-12-04 10:40 · Score: 2
As I see it, the Steam eco-system will be no different than the current consoles (XBox, PS4).
I see up to four potential differences.
1. Games for Steam OS may support community-created game mods to a greater extent than games for Xbox One and PlayStation 4.
2. On the other hand, Steam pretty much requires cable or DSL. Disc-based consoles work even if the only Internet access offered to homes in your area is satellite or cellular with a cap of 5 to 10 GB up+down per month, which is smaller than a single layer of BD-ROM.
3. I'm not sure how easy it is for a startup to get a game greenlit on Steam and to keep it patched, but the major consoles have had problems with this in the past: Bob's Game denied due to home office, The Binding of Isaac denied due to religious subject matter, excessive charges for Fez patches, etc.
4. I haven't seen solid evidence one way or the other about whether Linux-compatible games not sold through Steam can be loaded onto a machine that ships with Steam OS. Makers of traditional consoles, on the other hand, have since 1985 been building their entire business around console owners not having a counterpart to Android's "Unknown sources" checkbox.
Input is a big difference by tepples · 2013-12-04 10:50 · Score: 1

If you can manage to write a Windows game and then a Mac port or an Android app of it, then chances are you can target any platform you like as easily as anything. If you didn't, the problem isn't lack of tools to do so.
And one of these problems is input, which is probably the biggest practical difference among a PC, a console, and a "mobile" device. For example, even if you can port your desktop game's game logic, graphics output, and audio output to Android, that doesn't mean the resulting game's input will make any sense unless you're on an OUYA. I tried playing platformers in an NES emulator on a Nexus 7 tablet, and pretending a flat sheet of glass is a gamepad is not fun. A Steam Controller will probably handle like a Triax Turbo Touch 360 given the pictures I've seen of it.
Games obtained other than through Steam by tepples · 2013-12-04 12:45 · Score: 1

The Steam Machines Valve will be selling aren't consoles under lock and key, they're just PCs with a form factor more fitting for a living room.
Valve is also selling a very limited number of Steam Machines. Other manufacturers, such as iBuyPower, will be selling Steam OS devices to the public. Is there evidence either way as to whether these will let the user install and run X11/Linux games obtained other than through Steam, such as free software and other games that one can get without charge in a typical X11/Linux distro?

SteamOS is supposed to have the ability to stream Windows games from a running Windows box with Steam installed as well.
But does this include games that were obtained other than through Steam? Say I'm developing a game, and it isn't quite far enough along for me to seek Greenlight approval. Will I be able to stream daily builds?
Longtime Linux user here: by Anonymous Coward · 2013-12-05 10:16 · Score: 0

I've been using Linuces since the mid 90's. I have always had a Linux server of one kind or another running 24/7 in my home. I have made several attempts at switching to Linux on the desktop over this period of time but, have eventually gone back to Windows :(. The problems have been that at whatever time I attempted the switch, some critical component would take days to get working, or would not work at all, in that instance. I found that I was spending to much time working on the platform rather than working, and would simply load on whatever windows was available at the time. The most recent attempt was a year ago, and the problem that time was wireless networking.After 4 usb dongles, I was able to make a wireless connection, but, I had to manually connect EVERY time the machine was restarted, or came back up from hibernation/sleep. Finally enough, was enough, Windows 7 went on that machine, and I concentrated on getting real work done. Perhaps the problem was that I was building my machines out of whatever components I wanted. Had there been a hardware list delineating the hardware that was completely compatible with the Linux du jour, and had I known about it and built from it, things might have been different. And had updates to new revs not hosed working installations, ditto.
My hope with Steam is that they can get a stable platform that updates won't break. And where all the programs work and play well with each other. And the sound works all the time, and stays silent when I tell it to. And is dongle agnostic when coming to wifi. And...
I won't hold my breath. With the Win8 abomination, I'm thinking MacOS might be my next os of choice, even though I won't be able to build my own machines anymore...
Tom.