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Gov't Puts Witness On No Fly List, Then Denies Having Done So

Posted by Soulskill on from the you-can-trust-us dept.

cathyreisenwitz sends word of a San Francisco trial in which the U.S. government appears to be manipulating the no-fly list to its advantage. The court case involves a Stanford Ph.D. student who was barred from returning to the U.S. after visiting her native Malaysia. She's one of roughly 700,000 people on the no-fly list. Here's the sketchy part: the woman's eldest daughter, who was born in the U.S. and is a U.S. citizen, was called as a witness for the trial. Unfortunately, she mysteriously found herself on the no-fly list as well, and wasn't able to board a plane to come to the trial. Lawyers for the Department of Justice told the court that she simply missed her plane, but she was able to provide documents from the airline explaining that the Department of Homeland Security was not allowing her to fly.

16 of 462 comments (clear)

  1. Southwest.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are no longer free to move about the country.

    1. Re:Southwest.. by TWiTfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course you're free to move, citizen. You just need to present the proper papers, which you're not eligible for.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    2. Re:Southwest.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Correct, it does not say anything about it.

      So then why do you think the federal government have the right to stop it?

    3. Re:Southwest.. by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The US really does not resemble either the DDR or USSR in any way.

      Of course it does, it just hasn't gotten really bad, yet. The US is absolutely an imperialist superpower, just like the old USSR, using threats of force to get other countries to bow to its will and routinely sending its army to invade other countries to control resources and establish hegemony, and now it's spying on all its citizens just like the Stasi did in the DDR. It's not a big step from there to abusing all that power and routinely oppressing regular citizens.

    4. Re:Southwest.. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are quite the optimist. With today's technology, a locked down population is unlikely to be able to throw of the yoke of tyranny. And, government will be improving on today's technology, of course. Given a few decades of round the clock surveillance, mandatory forced indoctrination in the school system, and enforced thought policing, how are people ever going to regain their freedom?

      If the US falls to tyranny, there will be something equivalent to Europe's Dark Ages. It will be a long, long, LONG time before the pendulum swings back the other way.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    5. Re:Southwest.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sorry to be A/C but as someone with experience with the DDR, listen to Grishnakh. The US is playing a very dangerous game, and it's a game which cannot be won.

      You should not fear the people in power on the day your privacy and freedom are first lost. It's the assholes who come later with bold plans to abuse the new powers who your children will learn to fear.

      It took decades after their rights were removed until the full perversity of the brown shirts grew to be what it was. But thought crimes became a real offense and listening to forbidden radio could make your dad dissapear without recourse when they stormed your house in the night. When your child was sick you weren't alowed to visit in hospital. Going to church would land you on a watch list in an athiest country, and you had to lie every day about your thoughts and ideas to preserve the safety of your family. And there are many places in the world today where people still suffer under this form of opression so one needs to remember that it is very real.

      American ignorance is to think that "it happened over there but it can never happen here".
      Wake up. Humans are humans; you should never give them power over each other because they will abuse it in the name of whatever stupid ideology they feel is "best for you". It won't matter what you think if you're on the bottom.

      Every indication as far as I can tell is that the strong foundation of liberty and protected freedoms that made the USA great is being steadilly broken down and removed, brick by brick.

  2. Re:Just drive there by Lucky_Pierre · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the jackboot fits, wear it.

    --
    "Whenever the cause of the people is entrusted to professors, it is lost." ~ V.I. Lenin
  3. three times is enemy action by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Too much of this BS going on these days to be merely negligence , ignorance and incompetence.
    Yeah, the NSA would never abuse all that personal data it's hovering up.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  4. Re:Just drive there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Driving is a privilege, not a right. You can see where this leads...

  5. Re:Just drive there by Huntr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll tell you what's a right: due process. The govt appears to be denying that to a witness in a trial for their own benefit. Let that sink in a sec and decide if the issue here is whether or not she can drive to court.

  6. Re:Just drive there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dr. Ibrahim was familiar with Jamaah Islamiyah Malaysia. She said she had heard of it only from reading online newspapers, but that from what she had read, it was an un-Muslim terrorist organization. Later in her deposition, Dr. Ibrahim noted that since returning to Malaysia in 2005, she has become active in Jamaah Islah Malaysia, a non-profit professional networking group for Muslims who have returned to Malaysia after post-secondary schooling in the U.S. and Europe. The two groups have names that could easily be confused by non-Malays, and are sometimes referred to by the same acronym, âoeJIMâ. But both are well-known and readily distinguishable to Malaysians. And the FBI agents who visited her in 2004 didnâ(TM)t ask about âoeJamaah Isla Malaysiaâ, the entirely innocent organization with which Dr. Ibrahim is now involved. This potential confusion is the only hint in the public record to date about any possible explanation, legitimate or not, for FBI âoeSpecial Agentâ Kellyâ(TM)s nomination of Dr. Ibrahim for inclusion on the âoeno-flyâ list.

    Tuttle, Buttle, what's the difference? The Department of Records doesn't make mistakes!

    (Dear NSA: I was going to self-censor, because I know that mentioning terrist organizations reflects poorly on my loyalty score. Let the record show that I'm making a reference to a movie called Brazil, in which... well, let's just say the next time someone streams it over Netflix, you should watch along with them. You'll find a lot that's familiar.)

  7. Re:No popcorn yet by chris_mahan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How can she prove she is on the list when the airlines are instructed not to let the passenger know the reason why the passenger is denied boarding...

    --

    "Piter, too, is dead."

  8. Re:Ah yes... by Required+Snark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without blogs this kind of event will be completely ignored. It's not like we have a functioning independent press any more, so blogs pick up some of the slack. Although this is an important instance of how the legal system has been rendered non-functional, it's not the kind of stupid mindless drama that passes as "news". The lack of attention is one of the mechanisms that is used to erode basic rights and let the government get away with this crap.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  9. Re:No popcorn yet by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "You have to have a sworn record before I can do something dramatic." Judge Alsup said he would consider the document if and when Ms. Mustafa Kamal arrives in San Francisco and can testify as to its authenticity.

    FTFNFLA:

    A "false positive" occurs when a passenger who is not on the No Fly List has a name that matches or is similar to a name on the list. False positive passengers will not be allowed to board a flight unless they can differentiate themselves from the actual person on the list, usually by presenting ID showing their middle name or date of birth. In some cases, false positive passengers have been denied boarding or have missed flights because they could not easily prove that they were not the person on the No Fly List.

    When an airline ticket is purchased, the reservation system uses software to compare the passenger's name against the No Fly List. If the name matches, or is similar to a name on the No Fly List, a restriction is placed in their reservation that prevents them from being issued a boarding pass until the airline has determined whether or not they are the actual person whose name is on the No Fly List.

    In order for a citizen to comply with the laws it is essential that they be allowed to know the laws that apply to them. A restriction on flying, driving or status as a prisoner under arrest must be public information available to the citizens that such rules affect. The citizens can not protect themselves from secret rules they know nothing about. The system should have notified her at purchase that she was subject to a law which could require her facing additional government scrutiny. Judge Alsup should subpoena the no fly list as of the time Kamal purchased the airline ticket, and fucking check it himself -- He can write a Java range check program, so he can Ctrl+F a partial name match, or even look at the matching algorithm in use and see the evidence for himself.

    IMO, he is right in desiring a sworn testimony of the wronged party before taking action on their behalf -- A higher court may throw out such actions without at least a party claiming damage. However, the government is NOT allowed to withhold evidence. The no-fly list is evidence. They're not allowed to tamper with witnesses either. The list may no longer contain her name, but it very well may have. If the witness can not get on the plane to fly to court then how in the flying fuck can they give their sworn testimony? The court wants the witness, they should pay the fucking air fare -- at least give a voucher redeemable for an equivalent to their mile-high club. The government created the damn problem in the first place, they're the ones who should have a taste of their own invasive inspection medicine.

    In other words: If citizens should be assumed innocent until proven guilty -- The laws themselves should be assumed guilty until proven innocent.

  10. Re:No popcorn yet by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Alsup is simply being careful as he should be. Not being careful opens doors for appeals which he seeks to avoid.

  11. Re:No popcorn yet by ShakaUVM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >How can she prove she is on the list when the airlines are instructed not to let the passenger know the reason why the passenger is denied boarding...

    Malaysian Airlines actually provided her a copy of the letter from the DHS.

    The judge, though, said that it's not a sworn statement, so it has no validity. You know, the letter that was used to block her from travelling. That one.

    Fucking unbelievable.