Slashdot Mirror
NSA Tracking Cellphone Locations Worldwide
tramp writes "The National Security Agency is gathering nearly 5 billion records a day on the whereabouts of cellphones around the world, according to top-secret documents and interviews with U.S. intelligence officials, enabling the agency to track the movements of individuals — and map their relationships — in ways that would have been previously unimaginable. Of course it is 'only metadata' and absolutely not invading privacy if you ask our 'beloved' NSA." Pretty soon, the argument about whether you have in any given facet of your life a "reasonable expectation of privacy" may take on a whole new meaning. Also at Slash BI.
No, it absolutely will not. People need to get through their heads that just because your rights are violated, that doesn't mean expecting them not to be becomes unreasonable. If someone breaks into your house every day, it doesn't become "reasonable" for them to do so, or unreasonable for you to expect people to stay out of your house.
The logic espoused by the quoted idea is the same as saying if police were to start strip searching everyone without cause, it would be reasonable simply because it always happens.
Stop that.
What else is there to say.
Anyone surprised by this? I imagined they were doing that anyway
I'm not saying its ok, but what did people think was going to happen when they started carrying around devices that store and report their physical position every few minutes. Somebody is getting that data. If its not the NSA, then its a phone company or an advertising company or police officers or etc...
Robert Litt, general counsel for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which oversees the NSA, said “there is no element of the intelligence community that under any authority is intentionally collecting bulk cellphone location information about cellphones in the United States.”
The dude is quite the contortionist... the statement basically tells us absolutely nothing.
On second thought - it tells us everything.
#DeleteChrome
Precedent is a bigger component of the law than logic is.
Don't mistake the way you'd like things to work from the way they actually work.
Depends on how you define metadata. Nowadays the line between privacy, metadata and your last name, habits, shopping, etc seems to be a single "SELECT" line involving one or two tables.
The information is obviously a valuable law enforcement tool. Just like phone records, like wiretapping (under a judge auth.).
At least my perception, way before snowden and all the latest leaks, was that this was actually happening. This is just a confirmation.
Would be great if, as in wiretapping, this would be supervised by justice, and used only in criminal investigations. Sound naive ...i know
I like the idea the folks in Utah had to cut off the water supply from the NSA facility so they're unable to cool their hardware and it melts. An across-the-board move to shun them and their conspirators in Washington would send the clear message that they had better change course and obey the law before the American people compel them through more drastic measures.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Interesting spin
"One senior collection manager, speaking on the condition of anonymity but with permission from the NSA, said “we are getting vast volumes” of location data from around the world by tapping into the cables that connect mobile networks globally and that serve U.S. cellphones as well as foreign ones. Additionally, data are often collected from the tens of millions of Americans who travel abroad with their cellphones every year."
You are supposed to infer from that, that only Americans who travel abroad with their cellphones are the ones tracked. When it's not, it's Americans at home too, the tower ids are in the metadata he's already admitted they collect.
“there is no element of the intelligence community that under any authority is intentionally collecting bulk cellphone location information about cellphones in the United States.”
Police Officer : "Did you murder that woman?"
Knife carrying suspect, caught as scene of crime, covered in victims blood: "I had no authority to intentionally kill that woman"
or in gaol or hanging separately:
http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
We have the technology, power, ressources to track anyone and anything anywhere in the world...including USA and other countries and we can be more powerfull and more advanced than we are right now. I'm not afraid of that...contrairy, I adapt to it and that's not the problem. I'm more afraid of the person or people behind that power. We're talking about the people in the military and the current government. It's not a surprise or secret that lots of those stories are about corruption.
Take the analogy of a gun. The gun remains a gun and can be a tool of authority and defence and power to peace... put that in the wrong hands and you have yourself a mass murderer and a completely different story
Because Dancing with the Stars is on and it's that nasty Obamacare that's the real threat to freedom!!!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I guess they forgot the part where Batman has it destroyed it because it poses a danger to society and goes against everything he believes in.
If you let the attacks change your way of life, if you're so afraid that you prefer protection over freedom, the terrorists win!
You don't want the terrorists to win, do you?
(Rhetoric works both ways!)
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Between precedent and law stands PROTEST!
With all this 'fear', the terrorists have already won. Rhetoric or not.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
It's completely totally up to **US** to demand our government do its job & obey our rights
Please tell us your plan to demand thees things so I can follow along.. Since you have it all figured out..
Just checking - the carriers are all tracking our movements as well, and using the data for profit.
I understand the outrage over the NSA doing it, I'm just checking to see if we're all fine with the corporations doing the same thing for profit as part of our wonder free-market society.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Don't worry, next time they're gonna vote for the other branch of The Party and everything will be better.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Bow to Israel, or we will know that you did not. Our eyes see everywhere.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
my plan is simple...actually it's Thomas Jefferson & other founders plan...
what government policy is effecting the behavior you don't agree with?
what do *you* specifically want to change?
identify that, then use your powers as a citizen to advance policy that would be different
this work happens every day on every possible policy...I used to be a social studies teacher & the idea is that theoretically only a person who didn't finish high school or a non-US person should be asking "how" our system works...
Thank you Dave Raggett
Why does the fact that governments spy mean we, the people who run this country, can't hold them accountable?
We can't because we have demonstrated that we can't as others have pointed out these things only came to light because of Snowden, and most of it has been happening for a decade!
Having programs on the scale the NSA is running them and having them be secret is fundamentally incompatible with representative democracy. How exactly are "We the People" suppose to hold anyone to account, judge their actions as legislators and executives etc when we can't and don't know what is being done with billions of our dollars, and thousands of our people? We can't.
While I do accept some secrecy is needed for the operations of state, I do not think a free society can allow an organization as massive as the the NSA to do so much in secret. Its clearly crossed a line where its no longer under the peoples control. Because nobody who takes the time read the paper is happy about all this.
What can they do though? We don't even really know who supported it, who objected to in legislative committee meetings because they are closed door.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
... Or even don't go to the church/mosque next door, but have an inaccuracy or error in your GPS.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The terrorists have won? Or the shitbags sitting in the back rooms pushing these programs and running the media has won?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
How is that different?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I'm shocked. SHOCKED, to find out that gambling is going on here! Your winnings, Sir...
In C++, your friends can see your privates.
So many times I've read US comments on Slashdot regarding privacy and how awful it is in the UK because of our camera coverage.
Ha! You were getting stiffed the whole time too! You weren't even getting the remote chance of video evidence to protect the innocent, just a blanket government surveillance of your online activity to protect against a largely government-engineered threat.
Now that we're both screwed, can we quiet-down on the finger pointing across ponds, and start pointing elsewhere?
I see you're new here :)
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I use my old iPhone 3GS as an iPod touch. No SIM card, no service, no signal to trace.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Fair point!! :)
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Sonic transmission of data does not make infection possible. If it were possible, systems would crash all the time from random noise picked up by microphones.
Hmmmm... (Stares at PC who has mysteriously frozen... Again..... Despite IT's assertion that there is 'nothing wrong with your computer').
Tap. Tap. Tap. "Is this thing on?"
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
if the "government" is doing something, it is somehow under government power
what, specifically, would you want to see changed?
you mention "armed forces and the local police will do all they can to 'follow orders'..."
so you would like local police forces to have different policies when dealing with protesters?
which city? during Occupy many cities had different responses...
if you identify the city then you can determine if police policy is controlled by the Mayor or a City Council
that's one example...just based on your comments about LE and military
so what is it that the government is doing you want to change?
Thank you Dave Raggett
I find the following seems to work to varying degrees:
1. Write, e-mail, and call them, let them know what you think and what you want them to do. Do this even when you agree with their stance on an issue, they need the pat on the head just like a dog. When writing to them don't be a partisan hack and name call (I have responded to a rather patronizing letter from one of my senators like that but never with the initial contact on an issue)
2. Show up at one of their town hall meetings (my stupid rep to the US House like to have phone ones) and ask hard questions on the topics you care about framed to make them look bad if they don't answer in the way you want.
3. When their supporters or they themselves are out door knocking during the campaign season have a list of issues you think they screwed up on and why and thus will not be voting for them. Also mention that you have informed you neighbors about it and actually do so ensuring that they hear the same issues several times.
4. Write letters to the editor in you local paper calling out their action or lack of action.
5. Become active in their campaign (or that of their opponent) and in the local political machine so you can help direct the platform and their thinking.
Granted all of that does require putting in some effort instead of being a simple voter, but does seem to garner reasonable results.
Time to offend someone
This is why you remove your batteries (or use a faraday cage) at home, before you go. Better would be to leave your phone completel at home and not take it with you when you go to meet your friends.
Where do you think OneNote came from?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Name just ONE Founding Father who, if he could transport through time and see the America of today, would be pleased at how it turned out. Just one. Even Alexander Hamilton would be shocked.
The line between corporate and government has been severely blurred. It shouldn't be hard for you find retired operatives making statements on how they were doing the bidding of corporations far too often when that was not supposed to be their job. If you mess with the wrong private people or corps, you'll start feeling that force. There are so many things to choose from that you have to be really severe to have them pull out the big guns. Most threats can be squashed with proportional measures... there is probably a whole handbook of guidelines on measured responses.
People wonder why the USA ignores any law and gets foreign governments to ignore their own laws... You don't need force, you can use the CIA and NSA to wield the extremely powerful weapon of information. Just look at how Wikileaks and Snowden illustrate that "soft" power to upturn any EU legal system; the ones who do the bidding would go to jail if their actions were not sanctioned; thus, providing the illusion that the system works.
The good side of democracy is the public is not so easily suckered by legal technical trickery (but instead by many other kinds) and if the people don't buy an idiotic technical argument it won't work. Do not let them talk you out of your own ability to reason. There are technicalities (the letter) and then there are distortions of intent (the meaning.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Hope against hope, I keep hoping people might somehow magically recognize sarcasm. That lack may stem from the simple fact that most people don't read books anymore and have so little perspective or even basic knowledge of the use of language. Good luck.