Slashdot Mirror


Billion Star Surveyor 'Gaia' Lifts Off

mrspoonsi writes "BBC Reports: 'Europe has launched the Gaia satellite — one of the most ambitious space missions in history. The 740m-euro (£620m) observatory lifted off from the Sinnamary complex in French Guiana at 06:12 local time (09:12 GMT). Gaia is going to map the precise positions and distances to more than a billion stars. This should give us the first realistic picture of how our Milky Way galaxy is constructed. Gaia's remarkable sensitivity will lead also to the detection of many thousands of previously unseen objects, including new planets and asteroids. Gaia will use this ultra-stable and supersensitive optical equipment to pinpoint its sample of stars with extraordinary confidence. By repeatedly viewing its targets over five years, it should get to know the brightest stars' coordinates down to an error of just seven micro-arcseconds. "This angle is equivalent to the size of a euro coin on the Moon as seen from Earth," explained Prof Alvaro Gimenez, Esa's director of science.'"

77 comments

  1. Total map size by mrspoonsi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article states it will map 1% of our Milky Way, and there are 170 billion Galaxies in the universe, so that is: 0.0000000000005% mapping of the known universe (if my figures are correct).

    1. Re:Total map size by StoneCrusher · · Score: 2
      Don't forget that every time we try to count them, there turns out to be more than expected.

      While this telescope is focused on high accuracy of closer stars, so it may not be finding any more galaxies, I wouldn't be surprised if it finds even more stars in the Milky Way than we previously estimated. This seems to happen every time we take a closer look.

      From the article

      it is likely also to see a colossal number of objects that have hitherto gone unrecorded - such as comets, asteroids, planets beyond our Solar System, cold dead stars, and even tepid stars that never quite fired into life.

      It seems even the definition of star isn't always clear.

    2. Re:Total map size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I imagine there are far more than 170 billion galaxies out there.

    3. Re:Total map size by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 3, Insightful
      What you say is very true...

      Anyone who doubts this should go to YouTube and search for "Hubble Ultra Deep Field".

      Amazing video...

    4. Re:Total map size by wjcofkc · · Score: 4, Informative

      While it is true that we don't know for sure how many galaxies there are in the Universe, 170 billion is likely low balling it a bit too much. The most widely accepted estimate stands at 500 billion - but still, this is murky water. A good article on how that number was arrived at can be found here:

      500 Billion --A Universe of Galaxies: Some Older than Milky Way

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    5. Re:Total map size by EdgePenguin · · Score: 1

      It will find galaxies, sort of. Gaia doesn't really care what it is looking at, it simply tags every point of light in its field that is bright enough. Things that aren't stars are then to be discarded when the data is processed. There was a recent paper published suggesting that some of these discarded galaxies could be surveyed in order to get even more science value out of Gaia.

    6. Re:Total map size by j-b0y · · Score: 2

      Very little that Gaia observes is truly discarded -- just the main astrometric system needs a mix of stable, well behaved stars and very distant quasars, that could be between 10% and 50% of the objects detected. There will be an attempt to classify objects -- which you need to do in order to grab the quasars for the astrometric system

      --
      Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
    7. Re:Total map size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's just a guesstimate on what we can see. There are bound to be many galaxies that are too faint or so distant that the light from them hasn't reached us yet. I would not be surprised if there were trillions of galaxies in the universe.

    8. Re:Total map size by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      Some have suggested that there may be trillions of galaxies in the universe at it's not a notion to be laughed at. There is the visible universe, and then there is the the rest. There is a tremendous amount of universe that we will never be able to see or measure because light or anything else will never ever reach us. It's just that far away. There are serious theories that what lies beyond may be very exotic, including different physical laws that allow for things such as single ultra-massive objects (or at least gravitation sources) that may be as large as the visible universe itself. Another popular theory is that there is a point in such far reaching space where our universe comes into physical contact with other universes that also serve as extreme attractive forces, there are indications in the cosmic microwave background that this is true. Although there is a lot of back and forth as to whether or not the phenomenon is real (appears it most likely is), the presence of the Dark flow is an indicator that something bizarre is out there.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    9. Re:Total map size by EdgePenguin · · Score: 1

      I meant to say some of the data is discarded. The paper I read discussed reconstructing a galaxy images to take into account the information Gaia throws away before downloading it to the ground station.

    10. Re:Total map size by Framboise · · Score: 1

      Actually Gaia will map 1% of the stars, but a substantial (my guesstimate ~50%) volume of the region containing most of the stars, which will allow to map the principal structures of the Galaxy: its spiral arms and its stellar bar, as well as to constrain the distribution of dark matter. It is comparable to study one object, like the sun, to better understand all the stars; Gaia will map one galaxy well, ours, with the aim to better understand all spiral galaxies.

  2. The size of a euro coin? by yo303 · · Score: 2, Funny

    What is that in Metric? Wait, I mean American?

    1. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      What is that in Metric? Wait, I mean American?

      Well, the diameter of a Euro is about 23.25 mm, giving it a surface area of about 425 mm squared. Given the ugly assumption that all 151,785,778 items in the library of congress are A4 sized (total SA ~ 9,466,878,973,860 mm squared), a Euro coin is about 4.5x10-11 of a Library of Congress.

      I should probably do some work.

    2. Re:The size of a euro coin? by idji · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a EUROPEAN satellite, and so a EURO is very appropriate.
      Yes, the Europeans are going back to fundamental mapping of what is out there, like James Cook, Galileo, Johannes Kepler.

      Onwards to L2 Gaia!!!

    3. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Teun · · Score: 4, Funny

      US$ 1.3639

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    4. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      its diameter is .915 inch or 1.16 milli-furlongs :-)

    5. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is that in Metric? Wait, I mean American?

      The size (diameter) of the one euro coins in metric is approximately 25 mm - in "American" units is roughly the same as a cap from a soda bottle..,
      (yes, i am Greek... but don't hate me, i love 'Murica!)

    6. Re:The size of a euro coin? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 0

      (yes, i am Greek... but don't hate me, i love 'Murica!)

      Are you sure you're European?

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    7. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's between a copper half cent and a two cent. I remember when I first bought a hooker with few of those half cents at the Burns Lane, Charleston. Those were the days!

    8. Re:The size of a euro coin? by KritonK · · Score: 1

      In Metric, it is 23.25 mm.

      In American, it is 0.95836768342951360263 times the diameter of a quarter. Or, in more standard units, 0.00021188757655293088 football fields. Approximately.

    9. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1.36 US dollars.

    10. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Western Civilization... the one we Greeks... created (!!!)

      Debatable. At least you were able to tank your civilization in a matter of few recent years, so congrats for that.

    11. Re:The size of a euro coin? by jimshatt · · Score: 1

      Given how close the moon is, this doesn't sound very accurate at all. Luckily, Gaia is still very confident. Good girl.

    12. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Most Greeks/Europeans pretend to "hate" America. But even the Socialists/Communists -especially them!- (and we have plenty of them -in Greece and Europe-... unfortunatly) that are obligated by their ideology to hate USA -and everything and everyone else! - are the bigest supporters of the American economy... they just can't live without American stuff!

      A bit like the American tea-party and Chinese products

    13. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Woa, so you know how to build a sensor that can pinpoint a location at a distance of 384,400 km more precise than +/- 23.25 mm? Color me impressed!

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    14. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Western Civilization... the one we Greeks... created (!!!)

      Debatable. At least you were able to tank your civilization in a matter of few recent years, so congrats for that.

      Everything is debatable - but in /. story about "Gaia"... we Greeks win!

    15. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow, what a sweeping generalization. Most people around here (NW-Europe) appreciate americans. It seems to me the ones spewing ideological rants about the US, are those who never worked with/visited/befriended americans. We do, however, scratch our heads at your fervent opposition to social security, as this could really boost the productivity and prosperity of your middle class. That middle class which could probably generate more demand than your beloved 1%.

    16. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Teun · · Score: 1
      Please keep that 'Most Europeans' out of the story, heck, I bet that given the chance a lot of Greeks would happily have some holidays in the states.

      Now that doesn't mean a lot of Europeans are happy with the recent (last ~15 years) US government's politics re. their 'friends'.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    17. Re:The size of a euro coin? by yo303 · · Score: 2

      This being a European project you should be coloured impressed.

    18. Re:The size of a euro coin? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      Modded down for a joke? Man you guys are up tight.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    19. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Teun · · Score: 1

      Given how close the moon is,

      Now I appreciate the US concept of distance is, especially for those from the mid-west, different to that of someone living in say Luxembourg or Belgium but to call the moon close is a bit of a stretch.
      I mean, even with your low fuel prices such a 480,000 mi round trip might get expensive...

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    20. Re: The size of a euro coin? by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Northern Europe is indeed more friendly towards the US than Southern or even Western Europe.

    21. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded down for a joke?

      ... that it wasn't even a "joke"?

      Man you guys are up tight.

      ... no, just Socialists/Communists - it's /. dude!

      Sign: Your Greek/European parent...

    22. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please keep that 'Most Europeans' out of the story, heck, I bet that given the chance a lot of Greeks would happily have some holidays in the states.

      I don't think any Greek would choose USA for his holidays (Greeks live in Greece dude... the other people choose Greece for their holidays!), but many Greeks happily choose USA as a place to live and prosper (and become very patriotic towards USA - even if they always feel nostalgic about Greece).
      I don't "keep that 'Most Europeans' out of the story" because i think i know well us Europeans - we constantly PRETEND to hate USA!

    23. Re:The size of a euro coin? by EdgePenguin · · Score: 1

      The Bush years were very trying on European patience, but there really isn't widespread animosity to Americans here. Please, don't let it stop you visiting. No, really, we are totally fucked here, bring your precious dollars ASAP. Help us!.

    24. Re: The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet the U.S. is not friendly to any of those countries.

    25. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is that in Metric? Wait, I mean American?

      You must be joking. We're talking about stars & galaxies here, so let's put it in relevant units.

      A Euro coin is 23.25 mm, that is 0.7535 attoParsecs or 7.755*10^(-11) light seconds or 2.4578*10^(-18) light years.

      For you quantum physicists: that is 1.439*10^33 planck length.

    26. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      This being a European project you should be coloured impressed.

      Sure, I shouldn't kulør d'impressed seid?

    27. Re:The size of a euro coin? by GauteL · · Score: 1

      I was wondering how impressive it was and attempted to resolve this with trigonometry to find the likely error distance 1 light year away.

      This got me in trouble with precision (the angle is of the order 1.0e-11 in Radians) but knowing that the angle is a constant here, the error should scale linearly with the distance.
      If we use 400,000 km as the distance to the moon, 1 light years is roughly 2.0e7 times the distance to the moon (Google search calculator).

      Thus an error of 20mm = 2.0e-5 km error at 400000 km should give around 2.0e7 * 2.0e-5 km =~ 400 km, meaning at 1 light years away, their error is roughly on par with how far away Ryan Air puts you from your real destination.

    28. Re:The size of a euro coin? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      the Western Civilization... the one we Greeks... created (!!!) That is a myth.
      History likely had run pretty similar when Xerses had won over the greeks.

      are the bigest supporters of the American economy... they just can't live without American stuff!
      That is nonsense. The only american products I own is my Apple stuff ...
      And I don't know anyone who owns anything made in america. Yes, ofc. you see the occasional american car on the streets and yes I guess many european air lines fly Boings ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    29. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US economy is about 70% consumption-based. Exactly how much more demand do we need?

    30. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'd like to know *which* euro coin. there are more than one.
      you're just assuming that the one euro coin was intended.

    31. Re:The size of a euro coin? by rnturn · · Score: 1

      Well, at least today it is. I prefer my units of measurement to be in wavelengths of an excited atom or, at the very least, the distance between two scratches on a platinum bar.

      (I think the point folks have been trying to make it that it would have been much more informative to say a ``N millimeter'' coin/object/whatever. Much of the world has probably never seen -- or ever will see -- a Euro coin except, maybe, in a photograph.)

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    32. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever watched musicals/tv-shows/cinema movies and listened to music? Idiot!

    33. Re:The size of a euro coin? by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Paradoxically, the Republican voter base loves love Social Security. They just don't love social security.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    34. Re: The size of a euro coin? by peppepz · · Score: 1

      Why do you say so? I live in Southern Europe and people here generally consider the US as the source of everything that's modern and cool, a feeling which is widely reflected by our foreign policy.

    35. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It REALLY doesn't matter exactly how big it is. It is a major coin from a stable major currency, with non-negligible value, so will be somewhere between 1.5 and 3.5cm. That is sufficient for what he wanted to convey. The guy was being reported on the BBC, and MOST Britons would have a pretty good idea how big a 1€ coin is (pretty similar to a 1£ coin actually). The guy was not trying to give a measurement for the US /. audience...

    36. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is quite preposterous.
      I've cancelled enough print jobs to know that A4 size is different from "Letter" size used here in Murica.
      No way is LOC storing its information on A4

    37. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the Europeans are going back to fundamental mapping of what is out there, like James Cook, Galileo, Johannes Kepler.

      Let's all hope that it doesn't all turn into a new prelude to colonization or a new inquisition...

    38. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only gets modded "funny" if it makes someone grin and isn't too offtopic.

    39. Re:The size of a euro coin? by jimshatt · · Score: 1

      Hmm, that is impressive. Thanks for doing the math. I was (obviously) going on a gut feeling there :)

    40. Re:The size of a euro coin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're nose is a bit of a stretch, ass.

    41. Re: The size of a euro coin? by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Because Southern Europe tends to like capitalism less, which is what the US embodies.

    42. Re: The size of a euro coin? by peppepz · · Score: 1

      Putting together under the same label the whole countries that comprise "southern europe" is a strong operation to begin with. As is defining a single label for "capitalism", for instance northern europe's rhenish capitalism is quite different from that of the USA. Politically, countries of southern europe have never been ruled by radical left-wing governments, while all of them have been ruled for some time by right-wing dictatorships in anti-communist stance. Now if you say that they haven't been able to implement and maintain a healthy modern capitalism system, we agree - I think that I live in the worst place on Earth to start a new business. But this doesn't mean that the majority of their population have a dislike for the USA or reject their influence; at least where I live, old people see them as a powerful ally that helped them get out of the post-WW2 misery, and young people receive them from the media as the only cultural example of how to obtain progress and wealth.

  3. Next step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next step: Galaxia

    1. Re:Next step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next step: Galaxia

      You mean Galaga?

  4. About the size of a quarter by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    Just slightly smaller than an American Quarter, not enough difference to affect this comparrison.

    1. Re:About the size of a quarter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should express this in terms of the universal unit of area: it's 2.043×10^-14 times the size of Wales.

  5. Boldly Going! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On a Five Year Mission, no less. Quick, establish the United Earth Space Probe Agency immediately so the Americans can claim to be involved while they contribute nothing.

  6. Hope Nasa can help us on that by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 0

    It seems even the definition of star isn't always clear

    I fervently hope that Nasa will get enough fund to construct a much powerful equipment than Gaia and sent it to space to help us understand the universe better.

    I fervently hope that the American government will stop wasting money on all the wasteful and counter-productive pork-barrel programs and put the money into GOOD USE and help put America in the lead again in the Space Frontier.

    2013 is drawing to a close. Will 2014 be a better beginning for the United States of America ?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Hope Nasa can help us on that by EdgePenguin · · Score: 2

      Given how long it will take to chew through Gaia data (Essentially, as someone starting out in astrophysics, this mission could define much of my working life) there won't be another powerful astrometry mission for a while.

      Why are you fixated on having NASA try to one-up ESA though? NASA has its own top end science missions planned, doing other things. If you are lucky and take care of your space agency, so of them might actually fly in space.

    2. Re: Hope Nasa can help us on that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because "frontier." Americans have been conditioned since the dawn of the twentieth century to respond positively to the word "frontier" in rhetoric and funding proposals. It's part of the "Frontier theory" of history: basically, that America was exceptional and democratic because of its unsettled western edge, until it was finally settled, which made the exploration of "new frontiers" in technology and space the new site of American exceptionalism and freedom. It's the theory that consciously underpins the rhetoric of all NASA funding, but it's been around at least since the Chicago Exposition's evanescent Great White City gleamed in all its temporary plaster glory.

    3. Re:Hope Nasa can help us on that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It would be silly to try to one-up ESA on this. It would be much better to fund these missions (and to hell with the pork-barrel manned missions):
      Mars Sample Return
      Europa Clipper, esp. in light of the plumes
      Terrestrial Planet Finder

    4. Re:Hope Nasa can help us on that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given how long it will take to chew through Gaia data (Essentially, as someone starting out in astrophysics, this mission could define much of my working life) there won't be another powerful astrometry mission for a while.

      Perhaps it would take a while. Or perhaps your precious scientific data would disappear at an alarming rate.

    5. Re:Hope Nasa can help us on that by Wootery · · Score: 1

      Don't know how these two are related...

    6. Re:Hope Nasa can help us on that by TangoMargarine · · Score: 2

      You're talking about not wasting money but then in the next breath that the U.S. has to "win at space"? Last I checked, we weren't in a cold war with Europe or anything. Just call this a win. We don't need to one-up them. I know it's a radical concept, but maybe we could all SHARE information about space.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    7. Re:Hope Nasa can help us on that by nojayuk · · Score: 1

      The James Webb Space Telescope is the next big NASA space project although the funding has been on-off for the past decade, raising the final price and stretching the delivery time to 2018 and counting. It could still be cancelled by Congress to save money and help reduce the national debt. Europe is providing a number of instruments and an Ariane V launch for the project in return for access to the science.

      The JWST is the last Big Space Science project on NASA's books though, all the other big observatories were cancelled or never got past the proposal stage. There are no plans to replace the Hubble with a similar visible-light observatory even in low Earth orbit, unless someone can rework those spare NRO Keyholes that were donated to NASA recently and find money to launch them.

  7. The real test... by Circlotron · · Score: 1

    ...is whether it can detect Apollo 11 mission stuff on the moon. That would shut a few mouths. The Hubble telescope lacks sufficient resolution in the visible light range.

    1. Re:The real test... by j-b0y · · Score: 1

      Well, Gaia won't ever observe the Moon, nor Venus and Mercury which are always on the sun-ward side of the solar-shield. Jupiter is so bright that it really messes with the detectors when it transits the focal plane, but it should be possible to do some interesting general-relativity experiments with the light-bending effects of Jupiter's mass for stars that are close (not not too close) to Jupiter when Gaia observes near it.

      --
      Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
    2. Re:The real test... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...is whether it can detect Apollo 11 mission stuff on the moon. That would shut a few mouths. The Hubble telescope lacks sufficient resolution in the visible light range.

      Why should moon landing deniers believe the results from Gaia?

      ESA (and also the Chinese space agency with their Jade Rabbit) must be *in* the conspiracy (they were *forced* into it by the reptilians).

    3. Re:The real test... by Framboise · · Score: 1

      In fact Gaia is sufficiently sensitive that General Relativity light deflection due to the sun and planets must be taken into account in all directions!

  8. Re:The uncertainty is 775 miles at Alpha Centauri by AmbiLobe · · Score: 2

    The angle of 7 u arc sec is 3.3 x10 ^-11 radians . The distance is 4 light years x 5.87 x 10 ^12 miles per LY . Product is 775 miles resolution of the position of a star 4 Light years away. Astounding accuracy !! congrats !

  9. Re:The uncertainty is 775 miles at Alpha Centauri by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's the uncertainty in the sideway position only.
    sideway uncertainty = (3.3 x10^-11) * (4 LY) = 775 miles

    Most of the error in the position of a star is in the depth direction. That error is given by a different formula:
    depth uncertainty = (3.3 x10^-11) * (4 LY)^2 / (2 AU) = 98,150,000 miles

  10. Excellent! by Hartree · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is a mission I've been watching and waiting for for a while. The original Hipparcos mission did this sort of mapping for a much smaller volume of space.

    Think of this as being like how finding the precise latitude and longitude of a large number of places on earth would have been to navigators of a much earlier era. No big new ideas, but it makes navigating so much easier and precise.

    This does this for astronomy and cosmology in a greatly expanded region of space.

    Something some don't realize is that our measurements of distance to stars and other objects in astronomy are very indirect. We use red shift to measure it in many cases, but that's an indirect method that relies on assumptions and estimates of the Hubble constant.

    We also use what are called "standard candles". These are objects we know the brightness of from the physics of the processes going on. Certain kinds of supernovae are some of the best known. But, again, like measuring the distance to the next town by how bright the streetlights are, it's indirect and can have errors from intervening dust, for example..

    This will use parallax, the same method as used in surveying to find distance from the change in angle between two separated observations of a far object. It's a direct method that relies on few assumptions.

  11. dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.01 billion dollars.

  12. Gaia I'm sure is honored. by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    Gaia is the first God, the God of all Gods and a women.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)