Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Working With Others, As a Schizophrenic Developer?
An anonymous reader writes: "I hope there are a few open source developers on Slashdot who understand this. As a developer who works alone and remotely (while living with my own family) — and is schizophrenic — there would be times I would feel very high (a surge of uncontrollable thoughts), or low because of the kind of failures that some patients with mental illness would have, and because of the emotional difficulty of being physically alone for 8 hours a day. This led me to decide to work physically together with my co-workers. Have you been in this situation before? If you have, how well did you manage it? (Medications are a part of the therapy as well.)"
Your ability to be productive and stay on the "happy path" will come from the ability to trust your team, trust yourself, and have your team trust you. I'd start with setting and achieving goals, and asking for help early in the process if you feel things start to slip.
What with the usual tenor of Slashdot comments, wanted to say early: awesome that you're working, doing it, trying to live in the "normal" world, where the normals don't often understand. My heart and thoughts are with you.
...for any reason... Ever!
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Thinking of my experiences on commercial development teams in the USA, I think you should be prepared 1) to deal with a lot of prejudice and 2) to find infrequent interactions that are compassionate and gratifying.
We understand, to some extent, why you are so difficult to work with. We can make some accommodation.
But if your having a bad day, take your ass home. Don't get self righteous. ADA does not make you right.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You might try telling any new co-workers right away that you have schizophrenia. That way, there will be less confusion and misunderstanding by others. You could just mention it in a matter-of-fact sort of way, by talking about schizophrenia as just a chronic illness like so many others. That might de-mystify it for some people.
I worked with someone who had schizophrenia, and she simply told new co-workers right away. I thought it was a good way of handling it.
Best of luck.
I think this is the first time I've posted anonymously to Slashdot in fifteen years...
Yes, it's tricky. Working alone, if you have mental health issues, can lead to a number of problems. As you say, you're very isolated, and that's emotionally difficult. But more, there's no-one else there to notice when things start going wrong for you. I know from my own experience that I don't always have good insight into how poorly I'm performing. But working in a commercial setting - in an office, against deadlines - can be a considerable stress raiser, and may make your situation worse.
This isn't always so. When I got my last job, I was seriously unwell and knew that I was. I very nearly didn't apply for the job because I thought I was too ill to do it. But when I actually got into the office, I found the work much easier than I expected and the team welcoming and generally good company, which boosted my self confidence and helped me towards a fairly rapid recovery.
I'd avoid medication if you can. Apart from all their other lovely side effects, anti-psychotics and anti-depressants can make you substantially less sharp, which may make you less able to do the job. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, if you can get it, is helpful to many people (including me). Maintain a good relationship with your doctor and make sure he or she knows your situation and your anxieties. Try to have someone around you who can watch out for changes in your behaviour and let you know when you're looking shaky.
And good luck!
Schizophrenia isn't psychopathy. Not that psychopathy is a condition that would affect the quality of code.
You should educate yourself about mental illness. You clearly do not understand it.
Further, it's illegal to discriminate against the mentally ill.
First, I really understand what you're saying. This is a tough situation, but I'm certain you can make it through.
You're being really wise not to isolate yourself. Spending time with people will make a very substantial difference in both how you feel and your general recovery. Isolation, even with caring family will hurt you. Please keep on trying to interact with people.
In terms of mental health... what you're describing sounds more like bipolar and less like schizophrenia. Schizophrenia can be medicated, if you're serious about it, carefully monitored, and have a good support system. Bipolar is a bit rougher, and you'll have to recognize what's happening to you yourself, and with the help of family and friends. Be very careful when you're manic - I know it can feel awesome, but the code you produce can be pretty damn awful. Depressed code is less of an issue as you'll likely not write that much.
You'll find that folks in CS tend to be very understanding of mental health issues. Very, very understanding. We're in an industry filled with intelligent and generally caring people, and you'll find support. Just be honest with your colleagues about how you're doing, and most importantly, make sure your first priority is taking care of yourself.
/* Dang, I can't type that well. */
Limiting your exposure to others is one of them. Do you think there are more benefits than liabilities being in close proximity to peers?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Highly functioning individuals all tend to have various quirks, idiosyncrasies, and other habits. I've worked with aspies, the depressed, and what have you and while all of them may suffer immensely in their personal worlds they are self aware enough to not let their disorder control them. They work with it and through it rather than using it as an excuse for problems.
Most people don't discuss mental health problems to other individuals unless it's going against a social fabric. "Why is John swearing randomly?" "Oh he has tourettes." Or the like.
As long as you can make most of the dead lines you will be fine. If you find yourself really getting into a hole, like a dark one, these sometimes happen then be honest with your manager in private and let him know what's going on. If you need a break than so be it. But remember, you're on a team and the success of the team falls onto you. Don't be the weakest link, your team mates will need you.
Stay strong my friend.
I'd avoid medication if you can.
How's Tom Cruise these days? Have you seen the latest Kirstie Alley extravaganza?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I have some experience with this as a manager. I had an employee (good, productive, employee), who was, unknown to me, bipolar. Meds kept it pretty well under control. For some reason or another, he changed doctors -- first one moved away or whatever. Anyway, the new MD decided to tinker with the meds. It didn't work out well. Severely abridged version of story: after the worst 3 days of my life as a manager ever, plus 2 HR reps, plus company nurse, plus N other impacted idividuals, we finally got him help. He was on medical leave for several weeks after that before things got put right again.
Here is the thing: he had plenty of friends in the company who would have been in the position to notice something going awry and heading off the trouble before it became a crisis. So, make a friend you can trust. One to whom you are not afraid to say: "My doctor is adjusting my medication. Watch for anything strange. If the wheels come off, here is my brother's phone number."
Many people working in professional fields suffer from mental illness. Just because someone has a mental illness doesn't mean they can only flip burgers or pick up trash. Also, based on the tone of your comment it seems likely you should seek treatment as well, since you sound more like a "raving psychopath" than the person you are replying to.
Further, it's illegal to discriminate against the mentally ill
Not entirely. A mentally ill person must be diagnosed and be following the treatment of their doctor. We're going through this a bit where I work. We have an employee who is clearly suffering from borderline personality disorder and he's caused no end of grief for his managers and coworkers. Yet he refuses to seek professional help and the process has started to fire him for his behavior.
Also, businesses must only offer reasonable accommodations. If the illness requires an unreasonable accommodation, the employer does not have to provide it.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
from Wikipedia:
There is little point in arguing over definitions, much less so if you are trying to turn the conventional usage on it's head. Based on the context:
It is clear the person he was replying to (you?) was using the conventional meaning, not the archaic one you listed above.
Section 15 of the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms states "Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability". Notice that last part, "mental or physical disability". If a company discriminates against someone with a mental disability in Canada, they had best be prepared for some legal action to be taken. Also, look up the difference between a psychopath and someone with Schizophrenia.
Every worker has or has had a "wacko" boss. Most noticeable among my "wacko" bosses have been a bi-polar, a narcissist, and a lot of dysfunctional control freaks. Some have had behavioral/environmental problems and some have had physiological problems. If they are honest and share this, the work group will accept them and everyone thrives. It like, this "wacko" is My "wacko". Those that try to hide that they are "wacko" are unacceptable bosses and nobody likes them.
I would suggest that honest is the best policy in the long run. Some people will back off but may start interacting as co-workers later. Some will never interact. Some will accept you and your limitation--these make you "their wacko". With these colleagues, the work group will grow better--better able to be honest, to accept your limitations, to function like groups of people do. The embracing of "wacko" people is quite liberating and fulfills some of our basic human desires.
To anyone who thinks the use of "wacko" is inappropriate, I really don't care. I'm not using it a professional sense as a therapist would use it but as a layman. I work and live with "wacko" people and I come from a family full of "wacko" people. Everyone has the ability to like and love "wacko". If fact you either already do or you are the "wacko" that needs (and hopefully has) community.
This is a post to help those that experience the same lives that the anonymous poster has, as well as I do: Many schizophrenics and people who experience abnormal thought patterns and/or manic episodes actually have an advantage by thinking “outside of the box.” See the movie “A Beautiful Mind” about John Nash. He is a man who experienced schizophrenia and then found success after many trial and errors. Quoting your anonymous post message, “that you feel very high (a surge of uncontrollable thoughts), or low”; this really is because our minds work differently that the norm (they may be mutated in some way), but that doesn't mean you cannot control them. To myself, the “ill” component of your diagnoses may be considered as “interference.” It is possible to learn how to control it. You may choose technology, pharmaceutical chemistry, therapy, and then also prayer and meditation. I prefer to use them all. Your life is a project, you can program yourself to correct your errors. Life, in a way, is about managing yourself. Motivate yourself to never give up, and then to apply yourself in every way to reward yourself (and others.) By blessing others, you may find that you learn about ways to improve yourself as well. If someone gives you bad vibes, analyze that they are the ones that may be experiencing low-self esteem and are the bad critics. Don't acknowledge pessimistic critics; only accept those who give constructive-criticism. Never give up on yourself or those who give you a positive influence. Do not label yourself as an underdog, even though at times it may seem to be this way. If you accept to be a failure by your (so called) “disease”, you will be one. Don't accept that “pill.” You must be an over-comer of your “illness” and play your “hand of cards” the best that you can. From the deck of cards that our Creator serves us, you must do the best to play your game with success. You must use your (possibly enhanced) creativity, and thought patterns for good by learning to channel them to your outcome in success. No person is perfect because “to err is human”, but you may still live Life to the fullest of your ability. You must understand that success is not the same goal for everyone. I have had many failures in my thirty-one years of Life, but “failure is a stepping stone to success.” There may even be “a thorn in you side” that you must live with rest of your Life, but you may learn to live with it and learn from it. By working with people (such as co-workers, friends or family), you may learn from their lives (just as anyone else may.) I am now in my thirties, and was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was young. Most people who have illnesses such as schizophrenia or are manic-depressive/bipolar (maybe of different types) are considered “dreamers.” To an extent this may be true, but that doesn't mean they are less useful than people who are not diagnosed with a “condition.” They may suffer from detachment from the common life; but wouldn't the world be boring if we were all the same? I really do deeply understand your aggravation with you working with your “illness.” I have gone through many bouts and struggles with this through out my life, and many times people look down on you for something that is not your fault. I believe the key is to find an occupation that you are good at (by finding work that is fun and enjoyable to you. Find what you are good at, and do it! This may be computers and technology, or maybe graphic design. It may be something that has nothing to do with technology at all! That is for you to figure out. Setup your Life management project and do “First things First, One Thing at a Time.” You may multitask your Life, but schedule yourself in order. Many veterans would understand this because they are taught the acronym “K.I.S.S”, which means “Keep It Simple Soldier.” You may do
I just thought that I'd point out that it's not discrimination if the person's condition interferes with work. I guess I could be wrong, but I think what laws like this mean is that the employer can't sight the mental illness (in this case) as the cause dismissal, etc. If the illness negatively affects job performance, it would still be valid to dismiss the person responsible. Also it may be of interest that the public sector is rather notorious for being more discriminatory than the private since the latter cannot afford to limit their labor pool as much as the former.
Yup, and the idea of 'reasonable accommodation' usually means that it only applies to companies with more than 50 employees, since it would be unreasonable to expect much from a smaller company. So if you have a disability of any kind that requires some level of support, then get a job at a large company.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
There is a genius Go programmer (as in Weiqi, Baduk, GO game) that IIRC has come out as schizophrenic some years ago.
His name is Frank A. de Groot, author of MoyoGo Studio - a controversial but good go-studying platform. Some time ago, he used to offer his program for a fee, got into trouble with major Go schools in Korea I think (they claimed he used their pro game logs data without authorization). The guy always has an axe to grind with somebody, whether on good ole groups, irc, email or forums. After some time, he started offering MoyoGoStudio for free...
And then, he deleted it. Forever.
Just like that, with all backup copies of it.
Or at least that`s what he claimed to have done, in a bad episode. Next thing i hear, when in a lighter mood, he dug up some god-forsaken source copy and apologized for not taking his pills.
I think the guy IS a genius programmer, but completely fills in the proverb about not every gift being a blessing...
Maybe he can offer some personal, non-anonymous advice on the subject?
Now, Make Your WISE Move...