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Ask Slashdot: Working With Others, As a Schizophrenic Developer?

An anonymous reader writes: "I hope there are a few open source developers on Slashdot who understand this. As a developer who works alone and remotely (while living with my own family) — and is schizophrenic — there would be times I would feel very high (a surge of uncontrollable thoughts), or low because of the kind of failures that some patients with mental illness would have, and because of the emotional difficulty of being physically alone for 8 hours a day. This led me to decide to work physically together with my co-workers. Have you been in this situation before? If you have, how well did you manage it? (Medications are a part of the therapy as well.)"

23 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Build trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your ability to be productive and stay on the "happy path" will come from the ability to trust your team, trust yourself, and have your team trust you. I'd start with setting and achieving goals, and asking for help early in the process if you feel things start to slip.

  2. No experience, but... by jddj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What with the usual tenor of Slashdot comments, wanted to say early: awesome that you're working, doing it, trying to live in the "normal" world, where the normals don't often understand. My heart and thoughts are with you.

  3. Don't stop your meds! by mspohr · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...for any reason... Ever!

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    1. Re:Don't stop your meds! by mspohr · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am a doctor with many years experience working in the ER. I have encountered many schizophrenic patients who have stopped taking their meds, end up unable to cope and need hospital admission. What happens is that people feel better (because of their meds) and begin to think that they don't need the meds so they stop.
      Just don't stop taking your meds. The reason you are feeling better is because of the meds. Just don't stop.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    2. Re:Don't stop your meds! by shadowofwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think your advice was reasonable, based on your experience, and it was reasonable for you to offer it.

      I do have a partial disagreement with it though. Medications have side effects, often significantly undesirable, and there isn't a clear, universally applicable line which distinguishes all schizophrenics from all non-schizophrenics. I have had symptoms which meet the definition of schizophrenia, and I had them a lot more for a couple of years before they went away again. Suppose I had decided it was a problem worth getting medication for. Then I could never stop the medications again? That would seem like a good reason to be very cautious about ever starting treatment.

      My sister is a doctor in a big city ER, so I can imagine what your experience is like. But that's a skewed sample. It doesn't include the much larger number of mild schizophrenics who never wind up in the ER. Also, many doctors are not very interested in understanding the more subtle tradeoffs with medications and their significance, and they prescribe drugs casually if the patient seems to be asking for it, or for the sake of doing some kind of treatment to cover their own liability or to justify the visit. How large a portion of doctors have that kind of arrogance I don't know, because I've encountered both. But the percentage who went into medicine because of some combination of attraction to money, having power over people, and vicarious sadism is not small. Particularly in the more difficult areas like mental health and ER work.

    3. Re:Don't stop your meds! by ArbitraryName · · Score: 5, Informative

      Unlikely. His post history mentions at other points being in his 60's and has referred to medical school. A fake profile with a decade of history seems like a lot of effort to go through to pretend to be a doctor on a tech forum. Not impossible, but I'm going to go with Occam's Razor on this one.

    4. Re:Don't stop your meds! by ArbitraryName · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't really think "follow the treatment plan of your medical professionals" qualifies as medical advice, and certainly not some one should be loath to take.

  4. Advice from the former coworker of a schizo. by HornWumpus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We understand, to some extent, why you are so difficult to work with. We can make some accommodation.

    But if your having a bad day, take your ass home. Don't get self righteous. ADA does not make you right.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Advice from the former coworker of a schizo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tone is important and yours seems far more aggressive than the parent's. Schizo is a contraction which is used by some schizophrenics and their friends/family when referring to the condition. Yes, some find it offensive, but the words "nerd" and "geek" can also carry negative connotations, and the word "nigger" is frequently used by coloured people without the offensive connotations that if would have coming from a KKK member.

      Your use of "bigoted, intolerant fuck" takes what could have been a reasoned semantic/lexocogical argument and turns it into a big pile of hoisting from your own petard. (Petard is an old explosive weapon for breaking through castle walls incidentally, not a really stupid dog, just in case you take offence.)

  5. One suggestion... by floobedy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You might try telling any new co-workers right away that you have schizophrenia. That way, there will be less confusion and misunderstanding by others. You could just mention it in a matter-of-fact sort of way, by talking about schizophrenia as just a chronic illness like so many others. That might de-mystify it for some people.

    I worked with someone who had schizophrenia, and she simply told new co-workers right away. I thought it was a good way of handling it.

    Best of luck.

    1. Re:One suggestion... by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Informative

      I absolutely agree... except about the "right away" part. I'd say give it a week or two for politics' sake.

      I have ADHD, so while working I feel a mental compulsion to jump around between three or four projects at once. I know that one of those projects is always going to end up being the one preempted by everything else, because I usually have enough competence for three projects, but feel most comfortable juggling four. I keep Slashdot as that fourth.

      When starting with a new team, I'll usually spend a week figuring out the team dynamics and demonstrating my abilities to the rest of the team. Yes, I keep Slashdot open on my computer, but I'm not slacking off. My projects still meet deadlines and work as promised. Once I can show that, I'll mention to people, often individually, that I have ADHD, and I'll explain with a few prepared sentences how I'm very uncomfortable being limited to focusing on a single task. Some folks will ask questions, others will just accept it, but generally speaking everyone is open by then to the idea that even though I'm mentally different, I can still be a productive member of the team.

      I have met one person who was concerned about my capability. He was under the impression that having ADHD meant I would be unable to focus on anything, which is an unfortunate persistent myth. By explaining my condition at the end of a productive week, I was able to give clear and specific examples of when my ADHD was an asset, and describe my mitigation techniques when it was a liability. We ended up working well together.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:One suggestion... by QilessQi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was pretty courageous of her... mental health issues still carry a stigma above and beyond other types of disorders, at least in the United States. If the OP isn't comfortable with revealing his/her schizophrenia, a possible middle ground would be to say: "I have a chronic illness that I have to be on medication for, and my moods can be unpredictable at times. Please don't take anything personally." Most people would attribute behavior fluctuations to side-effects of the meds, and that would be that.

      And to the OP:

      I really applaud the decision of getting out of the house and interacting with people. I was a full-time telecommuter once, and the isolation really does take its toll. I don't even like dead-quiet workspaces: I prefer going to work in an environment full of professional interaction and conversation. But if I were you, I would ease into it. Start with half-time: either 5 half-days or 2.5 full days a week (e.g., all Monday, all Wednesday, and Friday morning). Then adjust your schedule in a way that makes sense. If you work a full day, give yourself the lunch hour as alone-time to help you mentally regroup for the second half of the day.

      Best of luck!

    3. Re:One suggestion... by floobedy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was pretty courageous of her... mental health issues still carry a stigma above and beyond other types of disorders, at least in the United States. If the OP isn't comfortable with revealing his/her schizophrenia, a possible middle ground would be to say: "I have a chronic illness that I have to be on medication for, and my moods can be unpredictable at times. Please don't take anything personally." Most people would attribute behavior fluctuations to side-effects of the meds, and that would be that.

      I disagree with you about this. The problem is, if he says to others "I have some kind of illness", without specifying that it's schizophrenia, then that's treating it like a mystery or a stigma, not to be spoken about. That's treating it in hushed tones, once again, which causes the kind of rumors which the poster might prefer to avoid. Also mentioning "moods" will seem like an attempt at concealment or understatement, like he's depressed or moody.

      If the poster has schizophrenia, then his co-workers are going to find out about it, sooner or later. It may as well be on the poster's terms.

      Just treat it in a very matter-of-fact way. He could mention that he has schizophrenia in the same way you'd mention that you have diabetes and need to take an injection every once in awhile. It's a simple fact, like any other medical condition. It's out on the table right away--no need to be hidden or spoken about in hushed tones. That de-mystifies it.

  6. Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think this is the first time I've posted anonymously to Slashdot in fifteen years...

    Yes, it's tricky. Working alone, if you have mental health issues, can lead to a number of problems. As you say, you're very isolated, and that's emotionally difficult. But more, there's no-one else there to notice when things start going wrong for you. I know from my own experience that I don't always have good insight into how poorly I'm performing. But working in a commercial setting - in an office, against deadlines - can be a considerable stress raiser, and may make your situation worse.

    This isn't always so. When I got my last job, I was seriously unwell and knew that I was. I very nearly didn't apply for the job because I thought I was too ill to do it. But when I actually got into the office, I found the work much easier than I expected and the team welcoming and generally good company, which boosted my self confidence and helped me towards a fairly rapid recovery.

    I'd avoid medication if you can. Apart from all their other lovely side effects, anti-psychotics and anti-depressants can make you substantially less sharp, which may make you less able to do the job. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, if you can get it, is helpful to many people (including me). Maintain a good relationship with your doctor and make sure he or she knows your situation and your anxieties. Try to have someone around you who can watch out for changes in your behaviour and let you know when you're looking shaky.

    And good luck!

    1. Re:Good luck by dmr001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Attempting to treat an honest-to-goodness thought disorder like schizophrenia without medication is akin to treating near-sightedness with counseling. There's a place for cognitive therapy in schizophrenia but it's considered adjunctive treatment (among mainstream practitioners). There are a smattering of schizophrenics who can ignore auditory and visual hallucinations that are the hallmark of the disease, and anti-psychotics may indeed make some people feel less sharp (though that isn't universal). I'd wager that most people with schizophrenia are more capable of getting things done when they aren't beset by what are typically very vivid and often intrusive hallucinations. There are, of course alternative viewpoints, such as that of the Church of Scientology.

    2. Re:Good luck by floobedy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd avoid medication if you can.

      Don't advise people with schizophrenia to discontinue their medications! For many schizophrenics, it's important that they take their meds consistently. Many schizophrenics do not notice when they are getting worse.

      Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, if you can get it, is helpful to many people (including me).

      It's possible that you have a mental condition which is different from the poster's. What works for you might not be good advice for him.

  7. Re:barking up wrong tree by TemperedAlchemist · · Score: 5, Informative

    Schizophrenia isn't psychopathy. Not that psychopathy is a condition that would affect the quality of code.

    You should educate yourself about mental illness. You clearly do not understand it.

    Further, it's illegal to discriminate against the mentally ill.

  8. Difficult Subject, but here's some advice by bstarrfield · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, I really understand what you're saying. This is a tough situation, but I'm certain you can make it through.

    You're being really wise not to isolate yourself. Spending time with people will make a very substantial difference in both how you feel and your general recovery. Isolation, even with caring family will hurt you. Please keep on trying to interact with people.

    In terms of mental health... what you're describing sounds more like bipolar and less like schizophrenia. Schizophrenia can be medicated, if you're serious about it, carefully monitored, and have a good support system. Bipolar is a bit rougher, and you'll have to recognize what's happening to you yourself, and with the help of family and friends. Be very careful when you're manic - I know it can feel awesome, but the code you produce can be pretty damn awful. Depressed code is less of an issue as you'll likely not write that much.

    You'll find that folks in CS tend to be very understanding of mental health issues. Very, very understanding. We're in an industry filled with intelligent and generally caring people, and you'll find support. Just be honest with your colleagues about how you're doing, and most importantly, make sure your first priority is taking care of yourself.

    --
    /* Dang, I can't type that well. */
    1. Re:Difficult Subject, but here's some advice by bstarrfield · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Dang, forgot to add something. As a more senior manager who has hired folks with various mental maladies, I can state unequivocally that the ADA provides far less protection than you'd first assume. Try very hard not to make your illness a discussion matter when you're in the hiring process, at least not until an offer is present. Companies will look for any reason not to higher someone, and unfortunately the stigma of mental illness can make the hiring process difficult.

      Mental Health issues are just - unfair. It's ridiculous, it's unjust, it's reality that people with mental illness are often treated like crap. I wish I could change that, and when I hire folks I try to look past those issues. if someone is recovering from cancer, they're a hero. Someone with mental illness does not get that benefit. You must be smart, so try to play the game as it's presented to you, and understand that people are trying to improve the situation.

      Final thing - some firms will be much more understanding of mental illness issues than others. Stay way from anything related to defense, national security, and finance. Look to firms like Apple, Redhat, and other companies that will value you as an individual, not just a cog in a vast machine.

      --
      /* Dang, I can't type that well. */
    2. Re:Difficult Subject, but here's some advice by matria · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hired a woman with mental health problems to work in my computer shop. I told her that as far as I was concerned it was no different than if she were diabetic and needed to take medication to control her blood sugar. Unfortunately she did not keep her doctor's appointments, even though I ended up marking them on the shop whiteboard and reminding her, and she did not take her medication regularly. After eight or nine months, and some pretty unhappy clients, I had to let her go. She was very bitter and tried to cause problems. So I can understand why many firms might be reluctant to hire someone with such an issue.

  9. Take some coworkers into your confidence. by dbc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have some experience with this as a manager. I had an employee (good, productive, employee), who was, unknown to me, bipolar. Meds kept it pretty well under control. For some reason or another, he changed doctors -- first one moved away or whatever. Anyway, the new MD decided to tinker with the meds. It didn't work out well. Severely abridged version of story: after the worst 3 days of my life as a manager ever, plus 2 HR reps, plus company nurse, plus N other impacted idividuals, we finally got him help. He was on medical leave for several weeks after that before things got put right again.

    Here is the thing: he had plenty of friends in the company who would have been in the position to notice something going awry and heading off the trouble before it became a crisis. So, make a friend you can trust. One to whom you are not afraid to say: "My doctor is adjusting my medication. Watch for anything strange. If the wheels come off, here is my brother's phone number."

  10. Re:barking up wrong tree by mosb1000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Many people working in professional fields suffer from mental illness. Just because someone has a mental illness doesn't mean they can only flip burgers or pick up trash. Also, based on the tone of your comment it seems likely you should seek treatment as well, since you sound more like a "raving psychopath" than the person you are replying to.

  11. Re:barking up wrong tree by mosb1000 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Psychopathy means pathology of the psyche. Nothing more, nothing less.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    from Wikipedia:

    Psychopathy is defined as either an aspect of personality or as a personality disorder, characterized by enduring dissocial or antisocial behavior, a diminished capacity for empathy or remorse, and poor behavioral controls or fearless dominance. There are various definitions which are only partly overlapping and sometimes appear contradictory.

    There is little point in arguing over definitions, much less so if you are trying to turn the conventional usage on it's head. Based on the context:

    I'm not convinced that "software developer" is an appropriate job for a raving psychopath.

    It is clear the person he was replying to (you?) was using the conventional meaning, not the archaic one you listed above.