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U.S. Waived Laws To Keep F-35 On Track With China-made Parts

An anonymous reader sends this report from Reuters: "The Pentagon repeatedly waived laws banning Chinese-built components on U.S. weapons in order to keep the $392 billion Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter program on track in 2012 and 2013, even as U.S. officials were voicing concern about China's espionage and military buildup. According to Pentagon documents reviewed by Reuters, chief U.S. arms buyer Frank Kendall allowed two F-35 suppliers, Northrop Grumman Corp and Honeywell International Inc, to use Chinese magnets for the new warplane's radar system, landing gears and other hardware. Without the waivers, both companies could have faced sanctions for violating federal law and the F-35 program could have faced further delays."

57 of 348 comments (clear)

  1. Don't imagine it stops there. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's a lot of electronic parts in those planes. Seriously, where do you get the electronic components to run a modern warplane if not from China this last decade?

    1. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Did you not even read TFS? Electronics weren't being imported, rare-earth magnets were. We're still capable of building our own electronics, we just can't do it as cheaply as the Chinese.

    2. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Teancum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It sort of shows how vulnerable America really is in terms of being able to wage a major war, and how badly the U.S. Congress has sold out the American people with it encouragement of outsources manufacturing outside of America. Sure, there are many reasons why electronics companies in particular no longer manufacture their components or devices in America any more (where at one time 100% of all ICs were made in America on a global basis), but a great deal has to do with both treaties that Congress has ratified and specific trade policies that have basically gutted the manufacturing base in America.

      I guess we shouldn't go to war against China, as we would be literally destroying our own factories.

    3. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by postmortem · · Score: 2

      You get them made from your own designs in Taiwan, which is not exactly PRC.

    4. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by ikedasquid · · Score: 2

      Given that the aircraft contains hundreds of thousands of parts, I'd be willing to bet more than just a few "China" parts have slipped in. It's one thing if it's some $10,000 part...but for a handful of $2 magnets (which if we did go to war with China could be found in stockrooms all across the US) who cares. Don't get me wrong - this should be avoided. It happened as an oversight and a waiver was granted. Thats the kind of thing waivers are for. We don't need Uncle Sam spending $100K to replace $2 magnets.

    5. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by glavenoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      ..but for a handful of $2 magnets (which if we did go to war with China could be found in stockrooms all across the US) who cares

      I do. They're probably counterfeit magnets made out of melamine and lead paint, and they probably don't even have a south pole...

      --
      I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable /. beta rollout fallout.
    6. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      we cannot build electronics in the US anymore. we don't own the plants that produce the transistors, resistors, caps, diodes, etc. for the last 30 or more years, those have been made exclusively in asia (all over asia, not just china). I can't remember the last time I found a transistor or chip made on US soil.

      assembly, sure; but making the parts is all done overseas. we sold outselves out in that regard. and see the capacitor problem (badcaps.net) that we have had to live with the past 20 or so years. those parts are also in the MILITARY and other sensitive pipelines. the caps that blow up on your motherboard also exist in everything else we build, unless we pay a premium for japanese caps (the chinese ones are all known to be bad; no one I know builds with chinese knock-off capacitors anymore; but I bet those that want to save every dime do cheap-out and use those bad parts).

      I wish we would start a jobs program to bring electronics manufacturing back to the US. if nothing else, just for peace of mind, to be able to use those parts in critical situations and KNOW they are designed and built properly.

      Not true. Intel has a number of major semiconductor fabrication plants in the US. So have Micron, Freescale, Cypress, On, Texas Instruments and others.

    7. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh really? There are still fabrication plants in the US. Not too many, but they exist and can manufacture semiconductor components.

    8. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wish we would start a jobs program to bring electronics manufacturing back to the US. if nothing else, just for peace of mind, to be able to use those parts in critical situations and KNOW they are designed and built properly.

      What would be the point? It'd just be overpriced junk that drives up the cost of military purchases even more than they already are. The US is in the process of destroying its economy. It no longer matters IMHO whether parts are made by potential future enemies or not.

    9. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by noh8rz10 · · Score: 2

      always cutting corners with their one-pole magnets!

    10. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Bartles · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You left out tax policy, environmental policy, and labor policy as well. Those are more responsible for gutting the manufacturing base. I speak as a manufacturer.

    11. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by ImOuttaHere · · Score: 2

      Absolutely! The US can and does still produce their own electronics. As for "cheap", that's changed. The West has moved enough jobs offshore that we have created salary competition in China (even though their education in science and engineering still sux). It's rather like what we did for India around software development and call centers a decade ago. Cost parity between formerly cheap East and formerly expensive West has been achieved.

    12. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I build electronic things and I have yet to see a single transistor or other part with a 'made in usa' designation.

      go to the usual supply houses and find some for me, ok? mouser, digikey, newark, jameco, etc. go browse for common parts like resistors, chips, caps, diodes, etc. find me any significant amount of those common yet important parts that are made here.

      some of you are quoting wiki, but having been in the electronics industry for several decades, I have yet to see any modern parts (other than specialized stuff) being made here at the component level.

      go and prove me wrong. but I'd need to see more than 'wiki' to believe it. every part I have used that I bought from a distributor is made overseas. 100% of them. and I've been doing this for a long, long time - longer than many of you have been alive.

      I do try to find US made parts but I have to go to a surplus store and buy stuff from the 50's and 60's to find 'new old stock'. anything from the 80's onward (roughly) is outsourced. everyone knows it, too, who is in the industry.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 5, Interesting

      F-35's are not for "major wars". It's bleeding edge, horribly expensive multi-role aircraft that does none of the roles well. The ill-founded claims by its manufacturers that it is "eight times more effective in air-to-ground combat" is pointless since it is almost 10 times as expensive to build and operate as a more specifically ground combat focused aircraft. The "build a core design and bolt on different components for different roles" has led to a variety of tragic design flaws that have been incredibly expensive to address for all its different variations. It's also a complete maintenance nightmare: the redesigns needed to reduce the weight, after it was enlarged to hold more weapons and provide larger engines, has led to customized parts that no one else uses, on the very edge of the strength/weight tradeoff to keep the weight down. So they fail, frequently, and are very expensive to replace. When confronted with various design flaws, such as the extremely por cockpit visibility leading to trivial destruction by cheaper aircraft in combat, Boing's suggestion that "that pilots worried about being shot down should fly cargo aircraft instead"

      There is no chance that this aircraft will have the reliability and longevity of many existing models of current US aircraft, which means incredible ongoing costs in repairing and replacing expensive aircraft that can never be used at their full capabilities_. They are displacing budgets for manpower (needed for ground warfare and holding territory, as seen in Iraq and Afghanistan), supply craft (for keeping troops and warcraft supplied), base maintenance (to train and equip men and machines), and drones (which are far cheaper and more effective than modern aircraft at targeteed strikes). The best thing that could happen for the US milatary with this aircraft is to pull the plug on it _now_, throw 1/3 of money into a rebuild and oversupply of more conventional aircraft, use 1/3 the budget to build newer, more specifically suited aircraft for each military branch instead of a Swiss Army Aircraft, and use the remaining 1/3 for manpower support. America is short on the ground troops and personnel to run the several occupying wars we're in the midst of.

    14. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Immerman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Right. If only we'd allow you to pay an even more miniscule tax rate, use slave labor, and dump your toxic waste into the public water supply you could be more competitive. Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic.

      A proper response would be not to weaken local regulations, but to impose tariffs on imported goods manufactured in conditions exploiting such socialized costs. Of course that would likely start a trade war with China, which we can ill afford. So perhaps we should encourage public shaming of domestic companies that import products with such an unfair advantage?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    15. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by alexander_686 · · Score: 2

      I will take the opposite side.

      Much of the prosperity in today’s America can be traced back to the fact that we live in an era were nations resolve their differences in multilateral originations that are rules based. That free trade and openness have greatly expanded.

      This has occurred, on balance, because of American leadership. You may not always get your way, and it might cost more in the short term (both in blood and money), but there are huge advantages in being able to set the priorities of the world.

    16. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by ArbitraryName · · Score: 5, Informative

      we cannot build electronics in the US anymore. we don't own the plants that produce the transistors, resistors, caps, diodes, etc. for the last 30 or more years, those have been made exclusively in asia (all over asia, not just china).

      Completely false. To name just a handful.
      Transistors: Loads. Intel, Freescale, Micron, NXP, etc.
      Resistors: US Resistor, Powerohm
      Capacitors: American Capacitor Corporation and AFM Micro
      Diodes: Sensitron

    17. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by ArbitraryName · · Score: 2

      and besides, this is about higher end chips.

      Intel makes their high end chips exclusively in the US. Overseas fabs make lower tier chips.

      the wiki article is not the full truth. some higher end chips are made here but that's NOT what the issue is about. you can't build entire systems from US based parts anymore. it simply can't be done. most of your parts (usually all) are not US made. and your pc board is not just one single high-end chip.

      You seem to be conflating cost and efficiency with technical capability. It usually doesn't make any sense for mass produced consumer level electronics to be made in the US. It would be horrendously expensive, quantities would be relatively limited and no one would buy them. That doesn't mean the capability isn't there. If an F-35 could be made from the ground up in the United States (which is obviously can be, as rare earth magnets are the only thing at issue here) your desktop PC's motherboard could be if there was some reason for it.

    18. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      I'd like to remind you that "free" trade is one of the main enemies of democracy. The idea behind free trade is removal of sovereign control, which in democracy means control by the people, and putting it in the hands of large multinationals (i.e. those with large amounts of money).

      Severe decline of democratic rule in most Western countries, including US can be traced directly to globalization advancing far enough for this particular negative impact to start hitting Western democracies significantly enough to be felt. It had been demolishing weaker democracies elsewhere for far longer, as those were simply weaker and less resistant to power of money which (often half-forced or bought through corruption) free trade unleashed on them.

    19. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      Um seriously?

      Take a look at Syria. There are no US troops there and they are slaughtering themselves just fine. Iraq still has weekly car bombings. Hell in Iraq the majority of all deaths were not from coalition troops but from Muslim fighters killing everyone who didn't agree with them.

      Personally I say we retreat back to north america maybe keep one or two bases open and wait in 20 years the world will descend into major war. For as war hungry as the USA has been theUSA has been the person everyone can hate equally.

      Of course I also believe in letting Iran have nukes. Iran is stupid enough to use them. Most likely against Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

      Syria, Iraq, and any country other than the USA is not our problem. Let them handle their own affairs.

    20. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      you don't have common parts (the non-semi conductors like caps and resistors) made here. its not economical and its not specialized, generally, so its NEVER done here other than for rare circumstances (some high end audio parts might be made here but on a very tiny production scale and not for common use).

      the wiki article is not the full truth. some higher end chips are made here but that's NOT what the issue is about. you can't build entire systems from US based parts anymore. it simply can't be done.

      Oh, really?

      I've read that a lot on slashdot... let's see...

      American sourced components (from the top of my head):

      capacitors (ceramic, tantalum), inductors:
      http://www.kemet.com
      (look for the defense/aerospace section)

      resistors
      http://www.micro-ohm.com

      discrete transistors:
      http://www.semi-tech-inc.com

      LED, Displays:
      http://wamcoinc.com

      IC's, microprocessors, basically the stuff from Natsemi and TI:
      www.ti.com
      (go to the space, avionics and defense section)

      I could go on... basically all microwave components are available as well.

    21. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure if there are sourcers for purchasing military approved reading Slashdot, and they happen to read your comment, and are allowed to post such information, you will feel stupid. Until then you have basically said "I operate in completely different circles" much like using your social connections to prove Kardashians don't exist because they are not at your gatherings.

      In other words, your industry sounds like consumer goods, not military hardware. Consumers won't pay domestic prices, military sourcing will. Ergo, I give your first hand experience zero relevance.

    22. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Man, how did civilization ever survive all those thousands of years before the US existed? Just dumb luck I guess. The fact of the matter is that it's been less than a century since the US got significantly involved in international politics, when we were drawn in by the presence of a major alliance seeking to conquer the rest of the world. And most of the problems since then can be laid directly at the feat of the aftermath of those wars, when we and the Europeans divied up the conquered nations as the spoils of war, even if we did install "independent" puppet governments instead of claiming them as colonies

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    23. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by alexander_686 · · Score: 2

      For that I see the root issue as the rise of the special interest groups and the importance of money in politics. Corporations are only one of many special interest groups. Neutering them won’t increase the say of the common man. It’s not a question of corporations but how the political system is structured.

    24. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not true. Intel has a number of major semiconductor fabrication plants in the US.

      True, for the list of parts he specified. Processor cores, yes, Intel and Texas Instruments have fabs in the US, but he's entirely correct that discrete components are exclusively manufactured in Asia. No one at all makes resistors, capacitors, or diodes in the US.

      Well, from GP " I can't remember the last time I found a transistor or chip made on US soil"...

      That said, google "american made capacitors" etc., and you'll prove that false too.

      I'm not disputing there is a lot of electronics components made in Asia, but they are not the only choice the way OP made it out to be.

    25. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      "many of which"

      but not the majority.

      Put those goalposts back where you found them and then get lost, asshat.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    26. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      Please

      All China has to do is impose a temporary embargo for just 1 week.

      Walmart, Sony, and 90% of all corporations would be SCREAMING MURDER and we would have the stock market crash and another recession start.

      China has the west by the balls. Not the other way around my friend. Corporations will rule once again at the expense of the people and I bet Walmart might even go out of business as its stores all have just in time inventory and have so much of its funds tied to replenishing stock. Walmart doesn't buy anything outside of China in the last 15 years.

      China is the winner here as they laugh at our outdated thinking with big military weapons can secure peace and assertiveness in economic trade. China owns all the darn means of production!

      This was their plan all along and if they invade Taiwan we wont get involved. After all without Walmart who will pay for their re-election campaign and the economic fall out will be devestating. Intel and others who have expensive R&D can't just build a new chip fabrication plant overnight and make chips immediately in the US. It takes years to move out and set a factory up.

    27. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no "killer" problem with the F35 that we can find.

      Thanks. I feel totally reassured now.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    28. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by alexander_686 · · Score: 2

      What are you trying to say? All class are more prosperous than in the 50s. – even the bottom 20%. And I could make a decent argument that corporation where more powerful back then – buying congressmen outright instead of renting them via campaign contributes.

      Why pin this on corporations when we can pin this on:
                The great wage compression of the 50s, a unique event brought about by the massive destruction of capital during the 20s and 30s and the post war surge in productivity.

                Technology that leverages the cleverest, ripping the middle class to shreds. Same as during the time of luddites.

                Slowing productivity growth, which historically shifted power to capital over labor.

      It is o.k. to be mad. It is not o.k. to blindly strike out.

    29. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      When you consider that the German Army, in both wars, had considerably better equipment than the countries they successfully invaded, you see the problem of relying on technical superiority. They became overextended, and could no longer supply the necessary armies occupation. Japan became similarly overextended: they started a fight with a much, _much_ larger nation. America's pre-deployed and quite expensive tactical reserve was devastated at Peal Harbor. Spending US military resources on a very, very expensive stealth fighter is analagous to buying one Oracle server running all my databases, when I can deploy 20 laptops running MySQL around the world for less money, better failover, and better local response times where the data is actually needed.

    30. Re:Don't imagine it stops there. by ppanon · · Score: 2

      Apparently you are blissfully unaware that China used predatory pricing on rare-earth metals to put every other non-Chinese rare-Earth mine out of business or mothballed quite a few years back, and then parlayed that into a monopoly in powerful magnet production by squeezing out every other manufacturer once they had the monopoly on the raw materials.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    31. Re: Don't imagine it stops there. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      If it is merely your position that the United States is greedy, and willing to kill off any number of people who happen to interfere in our "interests", you and I may find a lot of common ground.

      But, you seem to be saying that the United States has actually caused the underlying reasons that so many millions of people around the world have killed each other. You lose me there. How did the US cause Idi Amin to come to power? Or, Pol Pot? Or, Joseph Stalin? Restricting my questions to more modern-day mid-east countries, you might begin to make sense. The UK caused the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. European and US powers have constantly interfered in the mideast since then. But - even then, you completely ignore the power struggle between factions of Islam, you ignore the non-theists who have ruled parts of the mideast, and you further ignore all of the peripheral powers in the mideast. You have heard of the Phalangists, have you not? The Bedouin? The Kurds? Do you realize that Turkey is a power aside from Islam, with a lot of influence and power throughout the region? Have you considered the friction between Persians and Arabs?

      We, the west, bear a lot responsibility for things that are happening over there. We destabilized a large portion of the world when we destroyed the Ottoman Empire. But - that responsibility is far more limited than you would propose. Or, did you somehow assume that life under the Ottoman was serene, simple, peaceful, even idyllic?

      I suggest that the Ottoman had a full time job keeping the lid on the sprawling diverse nation that they ruled over. All the tensions and strife that we witness today has it's roots in history that preceded even the Empire.

      Yeah, we may be bad guys in a lot of instances, but we would be the most arrogant fools in history to claim responsibility for all the problems in the mideast. Those people have histories that go back ten thousand years, compared to our ~250 year history.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  2. It would be cheaper to cancel the program. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

    And maybe better for national security.

  3. Exaggeration much? by Nemyst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Assuming that there is any sort of provision to waive the restriction under chosen circumstances (and if there aren't, then the law could use a bit of a fixing), we're talking about magnets here. This isn't as though they're using a whole PCB from China with their firmware or something. Magnets. You can't do much spying with a piece of metal. If the random testing they do on all components anyway passes, I don't see any reason to find this problematic. China already has a near monopoly on rare earth materials so it's not particularly surprising that this is happening.

    The good thing to do would be to try to plan ahead and develop internal facilities so that eventually it's roughly breaking even to use US magnets instead. The danger isn't in the magnets but in the dependency on another country.

    1. Re:Exaggeration much? by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      we're talking about magnets here

      And magnets are unimportant? If you think so, you aren't familiar with their importance.

      I think you're missing the point.

      There is a security risk from using Chinese magnets in the F-35, and it is that if we get into a war with China they could cut off our supply of magnets and we would be unable to build more F-35s (at least, not until we find a new source of magnets). That is a risk, but if the magnets are the only part not produced domestically it probably isn't a big deal, especially if they look to correct that while they're at it.

      The bigger security risk is with actual assembled electronics of any kind. Sourcing those from China would require providing specs on those parts to China which means the Chinese government would have access to them. Also, there would be a risk of undetectable sabotage in a complex component (I'm taking ICs here, not resistors). If you buy an entire chip from China you have no way to know if what you asked for is what got delivered, unless you open them up and check with an SEM/etc.

      The reason that military contracts are supposed to be supplied domestically is to ensure that our military isn't susceptible to blockade/etc. Something like an aircraft could conceivably be supplied by every industrialized nation on the earth, and I'm sure this happens for most civilian aircraft. That means that you have supply chain problems if you go to war with just about anybody.

      If you don't think that you risk sabotage by buying computer parts for a strategically-important project internationally, just talk to the Soviets, who had a major oil refinery destroyed by the US in the cold war by a subtle act of sabotage. Or talk to the Iranians about their centrifuges (or anybody dealing with STUXNET elsewhere). Or just read the latest headlines about the NSA. The US doesn't want to be vulnerable to these kinds of attacks precisely because it KNOWS it is possible having done it themselves.

      So, the guy's point wasn't that magnets weren't important in general, but simply that they're not really a suitable vehicle for sabotage. A magnet has fairly simple physical properties, which means that a quality inspection would be likely to uncover any attempted sabotage. An IC for a radar system could be designed to pass every single test until some modulated signal is received on the antenna, and then it could do anything possible within the limits of whatever it is hooked up to (disable the radar, broadcast a homing signal for enemy missiles, overheat the radar unit and set the plane on fire, etc).

    2. Re:Exaggeration much? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 2

      I think you're missing the point.

      There is a security risk from using Chinese magnets in the F-35, and it is that if we get into a war with China they could cut off our supply of magnets and we would be unable to build more F-35s (at least, not until we find a new source of magnets).

      If we were unable to find a source of magnets domestically then we wouldn't have these planes to begin with. If China were to cut off our supply then we might not be able to make more planes, but at least we would have the ones we already made. Some are better than none.

  4. Re:Imagine a world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    During the height of the cold war, around the time of the Cuban missile crisis, the US built the SR-71, which was designed to spy on the Soviet Union, out of titanium supplied *by* the Soviet Union, which at the time had a near-monopoly on titanium.

  5. Re:Russians too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!"

  6. Magnaquench by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wasn't it a clever idea to let Magnaquench be sold to China? For those unfamiliar with it Magnaquench was one of, if not the, pioneer in rare earth magnets, and their use in various applications, including military. Here are links to articles about it in two websites that are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. Anything that the Heritage Foundation and DailyKos agree on is definitely worth considering.

    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/05/magnequench-cfius-and-chinas-thirst-for-us-defense-technology

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/05/03/508203/-Magnaquench-160-Weapon-technology-with-a-bow-on-it

  7. Re:The parts were not a secret by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

    The F-35 is already in production and has been for several years - its in a phase called Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) and the aircraft produced under is are indeed final production examples (barring any rework needed) rather than test aircraft.

    100 production standard aircraft have been produced to date.

  8. Re:Russians too? by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

    Taiwan wouldn't be quite so bad - at least they're a US ally.

  9. Re:Dangerous path by ImOuttaHere · · Score: 2

    ... and China _knows_ about it's advantage in rare earth minerals. What will happen when that precious supply is mysteriously interrupted?

    It's a very similar situation to what the CIA and NSA currently find themselves in with regard to optical quality glass for lenses. Nearly ALL of it comes from China. Consider satellites and lenses for spying and you'll perhaps begin to see just how ridiculous the West's dependance on China has become. Makes a person question the role of Nation States in terms of "national security" when they allow businesses in their own countries to ship jobs offshore in short-term attempts to drive down costs.

  10. Re: So I'll ask the one question that really matte by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

    Someone using the term "Slashdot-tards" complaining about "hate filled rhetoric"? Since you read carefully, I presume you're familiar with irony.

  11. Magnets? How about jet engines? by ebno-10db · · Score: 3

    If you think the magnet thing is bad, how do you feel about G.E. to Share Jet Technology With China in New Joint Venture? No dual use there, right? An easy field to develop expertise in, right? Which explains why the three major Western jet engine manufacturers (GE, Pratt-Whitney and Rolls-Royce), have been in control of the field since WWII. This is not something you figure out overnight. It's also no secret that jet engines are the biggest obstacle to developing "all Chinese" fighters.

  12. China vs. Japan by Fnord666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I like the part where the article's headline specifically calls out the Chinese sourced magnets even though in three of the four violations cited the magnets came from Japan, not China.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  13. Re:Imagine a world... by PPH · · Score: 2

    We could have bought it from Canada. Had we not fucked over their military aircraft program for the benefit of US arms manufacturers. That ill will must run deep for us to have to turn to Russia for our supply.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  14. Re:So I'll ask the one question that really matter by PPH · · Score: 2

    Does the law as written actually permit the granting of waivers

    Yes. If a manufacturer can demonstrate that some resource or component is not available domestically, they can seek a waiver.

    The sad part is having worked for a DoD contractor that, upon identifying technologies with potential national security applications, crate it up and ship it offshore before it gets identified and put under ITAR restrictions. Its more profitable to sell the product worldwide from overseas locations and back into a US defense program with the waiver than to get it stuck on American soil.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. We'll be sorry... by russotto · · Score: 3, Funny

    When the shit hits the fan and a US pilot is in a dogfight with a Chinese pilot, and the Chinese pilot throws the switch which tuns off the magnets in the US plane...

    1. Re:We'll be sorry... by ka9dgx · · Score: 2

      They thought the Civil war in the US would be over in an afternoon. People rushed into WWI, because the didn't want to miss it. The Germans thought they could roll through and capture Russia before taking over England, etc, repeating the mistake of Napoleon.

      It's not about the first weeks of war... it's about the long fight that they all turn into... sure, we could have millions of cheap fancy Chinese made gizmos in our arsenal... but what happens if the war lasts long enough to need resupply?

  16. The fighter that can't fly in the rain by plopez · · Score: 3, Funny

    The F-35 is a huge threat to US security. It is bankrupting the nation, incapable of doing the job, and every squadron that adopts it becomes immediately non-operational due to all of its problems. If a foreign government did this to the US the cruise missiles would have been launched long ago. Kill the program!.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:The fighter that can't fly in the rain by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Funny

      What? Are you crazy? Putting a stop to the F-35 would end a large component of the American Way of Life (TM) - taking ridiculous sums of taxpayer money to pay a small set of favored contracting companies to build a bunch of military stuff at ridiculously inflated prices that may or may not work, in exchange for bribes^Hcampaign donations to the politicians who made the decision to engage in this policy.

      This policy isn't about protecting the American people, and hasn't been since at least 1989.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  17. Re:Imagine a world... by Immerman · · Score: 2

    Who is overgeneralizing? The US has been actively engaged in pressuring, subverting, or overthrowing governments around the world to promote our own agendas since shortly after we joined The Great War a century ago. The Middle East just hosts some of the most egregious examples. Or do you suppose Australia signed on to the extremist US copyright treaties because they thought it was such a good idea for their nation? Military force is hardly the only way for a superpower to inflict its will on other nations.

    If China were only fighting with those they've been fighting with forever I doubt anyone would care. How involved do we get with the constant warfare in Africa?

    And yes, obviously the small nations surrounding China are allied with the US out of fear of China, especially those affected by China's openly declared intent to reclaim regions that were once part of the empire. The question you need to ask though is why is the US allied with them? What's in it for us? We want to keep China boxed in, and are willing to make some rather dubious alliances to do so.

    We can hardly blame China for wanting to get us off their doorstep - how long do you suppose a Cold War alliance between Canada and the Soviet Union would have gone unchallenged by the US? We did everything we could think of to disrupt Cuba's ties, and they're just one little island off one small section of our coast - it could never have be more than a tactical strike base, whereas our allies allow us the option to completely blockade China.

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    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  18. Re:Russians too? by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

    It's not an American thing, that's why there is a law. It had to be waived because unimportant parts from the supply chain were not domestic-only, and replacing the parts on principal is a stupid waste of time and money.
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. This is the best I can do. I'm pulling for ya, kid- just hang in there.

  19. Re: All about money. by ArbitraryName · · Score: 2

    You'd better let Molycorp know. They've put a lot of time and money into it and are finally getting US production back on line.

  20. Re:Mountain Pass by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The heritage piece was an opportunist hatchet job to discredit all democratic presidential candidates

    That must explain their crediting Hillary Clinton with having raised a legitimate concern, and their incredibly partisan conclusion that "it is not clear from the record that either Republicans or the Democrats, Bushes or Clintons, have the intestinal fortitude to take the steps necessary to monitor problematic foreign investment in America's high-technology manufacturing sectors".

    Kos is so vague that I would argue it is wrong, and clearly given the date a pro-Obama job.

    Yes, they're guilty of making incredibly vague statements like "in 1995 The Clinton Administration approved the sale of an Indiana company that made guidence systems for smart bombs to a Chinese led consortium". How could you even attempt to verify that?

    I see editorial opportunism in both

    Yes, citing facts to bolster an opinion is clearly opportunism.

    So what is the point? Are they both right?

    That wouldn't be surprising\, given that they both mention the same facts and concerns.

  21. The US has a rare earths source now. by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    On December 19, 2013, Molycorp started up their rare earths separation plant. It's in Mountain Pass, California. So now there's a US source.

    It's not that the US lacks rare earth metal resources. It's that, until recently, China was a cheaper supplier. Then the goverment of China tried to keep the price up and insisted that Chinese companies sell motors and other completed products, not raw materials. Some rare earth metal prices shot up by a factor of 20. So the Mountain Pass mine, closed in 2002, was cranked up again, this time with new equjpiment better pollution controls.

    Pollution controls for a rare earth mine are a big deal. "Rare earths" are present in low concentrations, which means that a mine generates a small amount of product and huge amounts of toxic sludge. The big rare earths mine in China has the world's largest sludge pond, and it leaks. This created an environmental disaster area for tens of kilometers around. Villages have had to be evacuated because of sludge pond leaks. The Mountain Pass, California mine is less than a mile from I-15 between Barstow and Las Vegas. The US EPA, California regulatory authorities, and the Sierra Club all had to be satisfied that this project wouldn't create a big mess. That was done.

    Now Molycorp complains that smuggling of rare earths out of China is pushing the price down, but they're digging them up, processing, and shipping them. Problem solved.

  22. They're never going to fly anyway by gelfling · · Score: 2

    So no harm no foul. The F-35 JSF program is so absurdly over budget, late and has so many profoundly crucial problems with basic technology it will never see active service. The next President will kill it off.