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Carmakers Keep Data On Drivers' Locations From Navigation Systems
cold fjord writes "The Detroit News reports, 'A government report finds that major automakers are keeping information about where drivers have been — collected from onboard navigation systems — for varying lengths of time. Owners of those cars can't demand that the information be destroyed. And, says the U.S. senator requesting the investigation, that raises questions about driver privacy. The Government Accountability Office in a report released Monday found major automakers have differing policies about how much data they collect and how long they keep it. Automakers collect location data in order to provide drivers with real-time traffic information, to help find the nearest gas station or restaurant, and to provide emergency roadside assistance and stolen vehicle tracking. But, the report found, "If companies retained data, they did not allow consumers to request that their data be deleted, which is a recommended practice."'"
All across America, well polished and maintained '57 Chevy convertibles just got that much cooler.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
The government recommends that you guys do something that will cost you money and empower the consumers! Why haven't you done it yet!?!?!
The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
Our economy is increasingly based on collecting, trading, and exploiting customer information, rather than actually making and selling a product.
When's the bubble going to burst?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Why isn't this required by law?
Facts have a liberal bias.
Full stop. Monetization of people, saving their data without their express, signed consent (after they have been acutely made aware -- no EULA click through counts) should be illegal with stiff penalties that include actual prison time. My data is mine. If you want it and want to make money from it, let me know and pay me. I think 50% of all profits you make from my data is beyond fair. Anything less is criminal.
What if the driver becomes involved in a lawsuit or is accused of a crime? Could the automakers be forced to provide the data? Or, if the automaker had reason to suspect the information may be subpoenaed would they have to retain the data or risk legal sanctions? A formal destruction policy may help in the latter case at least.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
We should have learned by now, that if a mechanism for spying or location tracking exists, than it IS being recorded and stored indefinitely.
I'm constantly surprised by people who are surprised.
I'm now a die-hard Subaru fan, just because as far as I know, they are the only ones who sell new cars without awful LCD screens and features like dashboard GPS.
(About rape) It is going to happen so you might as well relax and enjoy it.
(He lost to Ann Richards.)
not me, first thing I did was pull that fucking OnStar shit out. replacing the mirror wasn't cheap but worth it. freaking dealership wouldnt do it, had to take it to the body shop down the street. then I snipped the wires in the mic they put in the ceiling (assholes, like I need my car to be a flipping telephone...stupid use of technology).
Am I the only one who read that as the car makers are somehow not letting the nav system know the driver's location?
Companies should not keep private information about individuals.
The government hates competition.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
"Automakers collect location data in order to provide drivers with real-time traffic information, to help find the nearest gas station or restaurant, and to provide emergency roadside assistance and stolen vehicle tracking."
I've used GPS extensively all over the world. Why would you need to retain the position for ANY of these reasons, except the last one? Maybe the last reported position for the an emergency (like just before the GPS-demolishing wreck).
OnStar? Lojack? In-car GPS navigation? Cellular WiFi hotspot? Tesla revealing they know everything about what you do with the car during that spat with the New York Times?
Most people look at it and ask my why or at least raise an eye brow. Now I can simply say, "NSA". And they will nod understandingly and my mojo as the rebel who defies the draconian government will go up one notch.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
The courts in the US wil have to eventually determine that citizens "own" data like this making this kind of thing, license plate scanning and what Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, and Apple have been doing a kind of theft.
A relative of mine was all set to vote for Claytie "born with a silver foot in his mouth" Williams until he made that remark.
Thanks to her and many other women - and men - who were also offended, he lost a race that he would've won if he'd been a bit more tactful and voter-savvy.
He also made some remark along the lines of "Gettin' serviced [by a prostitute] in Mexico is just part of growin' up in West Texas."
That didn't help either.
Am I the only one who read that as the car makers are somehow not letting the nav system know the driver's location?
No.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Under long standing case law, information about you is not your data. e.g., the list of phone numbers you called are the business records of the phone company. So the police don't need a warrant to get it, they just have to ask the phone company which has no interest in your privacy.
It's almost certainly going to be the same in this case. The records the car company keeps are their records, including the tracking data. If the cops want to know where you've been, all they have to do is ask the car company nicely.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The government is just jealous that it's having trouble getting the data. They're big babies, if they can't have it they don't want anyone to have it.
remember, the people that designed it are not dumb either, and with some of the devices being hardwired into the various data buses connected to engine etc Some devices are not easily removed without a custom bypass wiring job
every time your car is serviced by the dealer, they hook it up to their computer and it uploads lots of data
do some research, read some car enthusiast forums and find out how folks warranties were denied because they had logs of them doing 150mph or whatnot
I was in a meeting today with a state DOT official who showed how his department buys monthly GPS tracking data on all traffic in the state, combined from companies including TomTom, Garmin, AT&T, etc. by a private company and processed by the University of Maryland. He was able to use it to prioritize road improvements and later show the benefits of those improvements. The data he had (average speeds for small stretches of road at hourly intervals) was quite granular and powerful for what he was doing but innocuous from a privacy perspective. The question should be, who else are these companies selling the data to and in what form?
..just what feminists say about men being raped by women 'family' courts. You know, the whole "he'll learn something from the experience" bit from cathrine comins?
{conspiracy theory}
This looks like another effort by the US güberment and their lackey media to try to drown people with data collection and privacy. Either to deflect attention from the NSA or bombard people with enough of such type of stories so that a few years down the road the American population could care less what the NSA does as it'll just be yet another data collection story
Folks again, if you really want change, go out and spread the anti-FUD or this conspiracy theory! You know your votes are next to useless!
{conspiracy theory}
This is why stuff like OnStar, or the fully connected internet of things is going to be a privacy nightmare.
You can't turn off OnStar and trust they still aren't listening.
When you can't trust that your own property isn't spying on you (which can of course then be subpoena'd by law enforcement), you're pretty much screwed.
It's bad enough everything you do on the internet someone is trying to track -- having your car always telling the company where you are is beyond creepy.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I bet it really messes with them then I leave a car in the river, for... reasons >.>
So far, this hasn't seemed to have happened, but if it does become public, there will be a backlash, especially OnStar which has the ability to track and disable cars in realtime [1].
Ahem. Just a few links that spring to mind. You can easily find others.
TomTom sorry for selling driver data to police
“Government Motors” To Track Drivers With OnStar, Sell Data to Police
OnStar Tracks Your Car Even When You Cancel Service
Busted! Your car's black box is spying, may be used against you in court
When Tony Soprano had the Onstar and nav system ripped out of his new Escalade, who knew he was smarter than the NSA?
Yeah, of course, because women never bilk men out of their money at a bar, or in divorce court via the state, right? Where's the mainstream outrage over that? Prostitution is probably the most honest transaction the genders have today. He wants her body for an hour, and she wants his money.
Last year a guy was busted by his wife for cheating on him because CalTrans had data saying he was in Marin at a time when he said he was in Berkeley. Now everyone is going to know where you're going. You'd better cheat on your wife only with someone who lives around the corner from your grocery store...
Obligatory Aladdin reference.
the mirror replacement was cosmetic. sorry if I confused anyone. those stupid buttons on the mirror drove me nuts. oddly enough, my new mirror works just fine without them.
I would have still had a gay ass mirror with onStar buttons on it. Well worth it, every penny.
Back in 1980s some do-gooders who want to punish those that frequent pron stores would note the license numbers of their cars, go to DMV to get address. Then send a letter with idea it is the wife that will open and read the letter about where their husband was at.
I like how Senators are gung-ho to go after private companies when they violate privacy, but are suspiciously quiet when the government does it.
Then make it law, and also make it law that all social sites have to show us what they've collected if we ask for it, AND THEN, destroy it if we quit their sites.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
You people who think you're so smart have no idea
how far down the rabbit hole you are.
We track your license plates. We track your phones.
We track your credit and debit cards. We track your
face using cameras on the highway. We know what you
like to eat, what kind of porn you prefer, who your friends
are, who your wife is fucking while you're at work, and
which kind of bread you buy. We know the movies you watch, the music
you pirate, the illegal drugs you like to use, and who you dated in
college.
WE OWN YOU. Your notion that there is freedom is a
fantasy we mention to pacify you. The game is over, you
silly proles. You should embrace the idea that we know what is
best for you and you will be happier.
His car was there at that time. Doesn't really say were he was at that time.
If he is accused of something (from speeding to driving past the murder site), he'll say "some friend loaned the car, don't remember who"
If he is trying to prove he was elsewhere, cops say someone else probably drove the car that day.
Of course, all of this information is being furnished to various levels of government.
How about this?
1. Make a unique drawing on a piece of paper. I believe it automatically gets copyright.
2. Drive your car in a pattern matching that drawing.
3. Sue the car maker for having an unauthorized electronic rendition of your copyrighted work. Better yet, get all your friends to do that as well, and make a copyright infringement bomb.
Because I have never bought a car that has that capability, and never will.
When my Tesla was delivered in 2012, I signed a "Data Usage Agreement" that essentially said that they would be collecting all of my data, all of the time, and using it for whatever they wanted (sort of).
I don't know what would have happened if I refused to sign that particular document, as and far as I know, every Tesla owner signed it.
I know of no way to opt out.
GM = OnStar = off my shopping list.
Why? Because I can (for now) at least make one choice in my life where I can protect my privacy just a little.
These companies collecting data are like the scorpion riding on the back of the animal crossing the river and can't help but sting their purveyor and drown as a result. These companies just can't help themselves but spy on you if it will make a buck - especially if the government will pay them for it.
There was some hubbub recently about Google announcing Android integration in Audi and Honda cars. The general objection was that now Google (and, of course, GCHQ or the NSA by extension) could even track motorists while driving! But already people commented that that probably already was the case with current navigation packages.
Boy, was this a correct assumption.
Assume that all data you send out anywhere gets tracked.
Want features like estimated travel times, traffic information. But don't want to personally provide the data to generate that information.
Is this really that big of an issue, if you don't like it just clip the wires to the GPS receiver. You'll lose your built in nav functionality but you'll also kill their ability to track you. I know if I ever get one of those cars that beep at you every 2 minutes for not buckling your seat-belt I'll be doing a little clipping/splicing to the sensor lead to make it read like the seat-belt is always hooked even though I practically always wear my seat-belt.
I just want to be able to turn off the 'vette at the red light.
The ones who need to be turned off for cruising in the left lane, who also pull in front of you then slow down well below the speedlimit are the Hondas. Getting them off the roadway would be even better for safety and traffic flow than the phone users.