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Carmakers Keep Data On Drivers' Locations From Navigation Systems
cold fjord writes "The Detroit News reports, 'A government report finds that major automakers are keeping information about where drivers have been — collected from onboard navigation systems — for varying lengths of time. Owners of those cars can't demand that the information be destroyed. And, says the U.S. senator requesting the investigation, that raises questions about driver privacy. The Government Accountability Office in a report released Monday found major automakers have differing policies about how much data they collect and how long they keep it. Automakers collect location data in order to provide drivers with real-time traffic information, to help find the nearest gas station or restaurant, and to provide emergency roadside assistance and stolen vehicle tracking. But, the report found, "If companies retained data, they did not allow consumers to request that their data be deleted, which is a recommended practice."'"
All across America, well polished and maintained '57 Chevy convertibles just got that much cooler.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
The government recommends that you guys do something that will cost you money and empower the consumers! Why haven't you done it yet!?!?!
The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
Our economy is increasingly based on collecting, trading, and exploiting customer information, rather than actually making and selling a product.
When's the bubble going to burst?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Why isn't this required by law?
Facts have a liberal bias.
Full stop. Monetization of people, saving their data without their express, signed consent (after they have been acutely made aware -- no EULA click through counts) should be illegal with stiff penalties that include actual prison time. My data is mine. If you want it and want to make money from it, let me know and pay me. I think 50% of all profits you make from my data is beyond fair. Anything less is criminal.
What if the driver becomes involved in a lawsuit or is accused of a crime? Could the automakers be forced to provide the data? Or, if the automaker had reason to suspect the information may be subpoenaed would they have to retain the data or risk legal sanctions? A formal destruction policy may help in the latter case at least.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
We should have learned by now, that if a mechanism for spying or location tracking exists, than it IS being recorded and stored indefinitely.
I'm constantly surprised by people who are surprised.
I'm now a die-hard Subaru fan, just because as far as I know, they are the only ones who sell new cars without awful LCD screens and features like dashboard GPS.
not me, first thing I did was pull that fucking OnStar shit out. replacing the mirror wasn't cheap but worth it. freaking dealership wouldnt do it, had to take it to the body shop down the street. then I snipped the wires in the mic they put in the ceiling (assholes, like I need my car to be a flipping telephone...stupid use of technology).
Am I the only one who read that as the car makers are somehow not letting the nav system know the driver's location?
Companies should not keep private information about individuals.
The government hates competition.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
"Automakers collect location data in order to provide drivers with real-time traffic information, to help find the nearest gas station or restaurant, and to provide emergency roadside assistance and stolen vehicle tracking."
I've used GPS extensively all over the world. Why would you need to retain the position for ANY of these reasons, except the last one? Maybe the last reported position for the an emergency (like just before the GPS-demolishing wreck).
Most people look at it and ask my why or at least raise an eye brow. Now I can simply say, "NSA". And they will nod understandingly and my mojo as the rebel who defies the draconian government will go up one notch.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Am I the only one who read that as the car makers are somehow not letting the nav system know the driver's location?
No.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Under long standing case law, information about you is not your data. e.g., the list of phone numbers you called are the business records of the phone company. So the police don't need a warrant to get it, they just have to ask the phone company which has no interest in your privacy.
It's almost certainly going to be the same in this case. The records the car company keeps are their records, including the tracking data. If the cops want to know where you've been, all they have to do is ask the car company nicely.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The government is just jealous that it's having trouble getting the data. They're big babies, if they can't have it they don't want anyone to have it.
I was in a meeting today with a state DOT official who showed how his department buys monthly GPS tracking data on all traffic in the state, combined from companies including TomTom, Garmin, AT&T, etc. by a private company and processed by the University of Maryland. He was able to use it to prioritize road improvements and later show the benefits of those improvements. The data he had (average speeds for small stretches of road at hourly intervals) was quite granular and powerful for what he was doing but innocuous from a privacy perspective. The question should be, who else are these companies selling the data to and in what form?
This is why stuff like OnStar, or the fully connected internet of things is going to be a privacy nightmare.
You can't turn off OnStar and trust they still aren't listening.
When you can't trust that your own property isn't spying on you (which can of course then be subpoena'd by law enforcement), you're pretty much screwed.
It's bad enough everything you do on the internet someone is trying to track -- having your car always telling the company where you are is beyond creepy.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
So far, this hasn't seemed to have happened, but if it does become public, there will be a backlash, especially OnStar which has the ability to track and disable cars in realtime [1].
Ahem. Just a few links that spring to mind. You can easily find others.
TomTom sorry for selling driver data to police
“Government Motors” To Track Drivers With OnStar, Sell Data to Police
OnStar Tracks Your Car Even When You Cancel Service
Busted! Your car's black box is spying, may be used against you in court
Very true. I was meaning the realtime tracking data, not the crap stored in the ECM/TCM, where car makers do a scan to check for tunes or modifications and if anything is found, put the vehicle on the "warranty is DEAD" list that goes to all dealers.
Newer cars, it is the same thing like jailbreaking iPhones if one wants a custom tune. Miss one gotcha or signature check, and the ECM will just refuse to run, and when the vehicle is taken to the dealer for a reflash, from there on out, all repairs are owner expense.
In GM cars, OnStar is the only system that is capable of determining your location (assuming no OEM navigation system), so if you pop the fuse or remove the antenna, that should prevent it from collecting any data.
I don't know if you're the same AC who talked about removing the mirror, but there is absolutely no reason to remove the mirror as a means to disable OnStar - that doesn't even disable the box from getting a GPS lock and storing/transmitting that data.
Cars that have onboard navi systems (i.e. car radios with built in turn-by-turn GPS) might be an issue. Those units have OEM integration with other parts of the car (With VW cars for instance, the car radio / GPS communicates over CANBUS to the information display in the instrument cluster to provide textual information about the next turn, so it's quite possible that the GPS locations could be stored in another module, such as the ECM or some other module that one can't simply remove).
I don't have a problem with the speed/RPM logs and such as they only record those basic data, not location. Other people disagree with me on this because often their insurance or police will demand these logs during a claim, but as a proponent of responsible driving, I don't see it as a big deal or an overly invasive intrusion into my privacy,
Last year a guy was busted by his wife for cheating on him because CalTrans had data saying he was in Marin at a time when he said he was in Berkeley. Now everyone is going to know where you're going. You'd better cheat on your wife only with someone who lives around the corner from your grocery store...
Obligatory Aladdin reference.
Hello. This is OnStar. We notice by our tracking system that your mileage has improved We are concerned because the sensors indicate that you are carrying about 180lbs less weight since your recent stop by the river. Did you leave someone behind?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I would have still had a gay ass mirror with onStar buttons on it. Well worth it, every penny.
Back in 1980s some do-gooders who want to punish those that frequent pron stores would note the license numbers of their cars, go to DMV to get address. Then send a letter with idea it is the wife that will open and read the letter about where their husband was at.
Then make it law, and also make it law that all social sites have to show us what they've collected if we ask for it, AND THEN, destroy it if we quit their sites.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
How about this?
1. Make a unique drawing on a piece of paper. I believe it automatically gets copyright.
2. Drive your car in a pattern matching that drawing.
3. Sue the car maker for having an unauthorized electronic rendition of your copyrighted work. Better yet, get all your friends to do that as well, and make a copyright infringement bomb.
When my Tesla was delivered in 2012, I signed a "Data Usage Agreement" that essentially said that they would be collecting all of my data, all of the time, and using it for whatever they wanted (sort of).
I don't know what would have happened if I refused to sign that particular document, as and far as I know, every Tesla owner signed it.
I know of no way to opt out.
GM = OnStar = off my shopping list.
Why? Because I can (for now) at least make one choice in my life where I can protect my privacy just a little.
These companies collecting data are like the scorpion riding on the back of the animal crossing the river and can't help but sting their purveyor and drown as a result. These companies just can't help themselves but spy on you if it will make a buck - especially if the government will pay them for it.
There was some hubbub recently about Google announcing Android integration in Audi and Honda cars. The general objection was that now Google (and, of course, GCHQ or the NSA by extension) could even track motorists while driving! But already people commented that that probably already was the case with current navigation packages.
Boy, was this a correct assumption.
Assume that all data you send out anywhere gets tracked.
When Tony Soprano had the Onstar and nav system ripped out of his new Escalade, who knew he was smarter than the NSA?
I remember Bruce Willis saying in an interview that before he decided to play a hitman in "The Whole 9 Yards" he went to visit some Mafia hitmen in Prison. They were thrilled to be consulted and quite a few of the things he said, or the mannerisms he picked up were in fact from the hit men.
It's funny because sometimes writers just make stuff up. Watch the writer's commentary from "The Thomas Crown Affair" and you'll find out much of the museum heist stuff was just to make a good show.
But other times, writers do research and from that put stuff in.
And it can be hard to tell what is made up and what is bonafide research. CIA agents who could contact the NSA and magically find out who you'd been emailing or where you'd been sounded crazy prior to Snowden's leaks.
Pay attention the next time you watch a movie. See if you can figure out what really is and what isn't.
We are the priests - of the Temples of Syrinx
2112
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