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Carmakers Keep Data On Drivers' Locations From Navigation Systems
cold fjord writes "The Detroit News reports, 'A government report finds that major automakers are keeping information about where drivers have been — collected from onboard navigation systems — for varying lengths of time. Owners of those cars can't demand that the information be destroyed. And, says the U.S. senator requesting the investigation, that raises questions about driver privacy. The Government Accountability Office in a report released Monday found major automakers have differing policies about how much data they collect and how long they keep it. Automakers collect location data in order to provide drivers with real-time traffic information, to help find the nearest gas station or restaurant, and to provide emergency roadside assistance and stolen vehicle tracking. But, the report found, "If companies retained data, they did not allow consumers to request that their data be deleted, which is a recommended practice."'"
All across America, well polished and maintained '57 Chevy convertibles just got that much cooler.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Our economy is increasingly based on collecting, trading, and exploiting customer information, rather than actually making and selling a product.
When's the bubble going to burst?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Full stop. Monetization of people, saving their data without their express, signed consent (after they have been acutely made aware -- no EULA click through counts) should be illegal with stiff penalties that include actual prison time. My data is mine. If you want it and want to make money from it, let me know and pay me. I think 50% of all profits you make from my data is beyond fair. Anything less is criminal.
Am I the only one who read that as the car makers are somehow not letting the nav system know the driver's location?
Because the last thing the Federal government cares about is the privacy of its citizens.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Because the REAL government is quietly asking them to hold onto the data.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
You could have saved yourself a lot of time and money by simply just pulling the dedicated fuse for the OnStar box or alternatively disconnecting the OnStar box from power.
Why isn't this required by law?
Recommended practices are easier to pass than law. Industry is okay with them because they can ignore them; Congress, agencies, or industry groups can pass them and pretend to be doing something. Occasionally they're even a little bit helpful.
Congress also does less with each passing year because, as it turns out, doing things in politics means people can paint you as against something, so the safest course of action for most politicians is to do nothing.
As a result, agencies and functionaries are left without the ability to legislate change, which means that "recommended practice" may be their best option to influence policy.
One can always just pull the OnStar antenna and call it done. This is a lot easier than doing a rip-job, and easily reversible when it comes time to sell the car.
Most people look at it and ask my why or at least raise an eye brow. Now I can simply say, "NSA". And they will nod understandingly and my mojo as the rebel who defies the draconian government will go up one notch.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
If they have data, they can be forced to cough it up, either by a search warrant for criminal cases or via motions of discovery/subpoenas for civil.
So far, this hasn't seemed to have happened, but if it does become public, there will be a backlash, especially OnStar which has the ability to track and disable cars in realtime [1].
[1]: I hope GM knows what they are doing with security, because some group wanting to get themselves on the map could use that ability during a disaster (hurricane, man-made catastrophe, etc.) to disable cars en masse, creating an almost impenetrable barrier for evacuations out of a city. I remember just the compromise of an Austin company that had vehicle disabling devices on their cars by an ex-employee, with the employee disabling all cars, caused a pretty big stir... think of that on a regional level.)
Fords don't have a bad mechanism either. They use one's cellphone for sending vehicle health reports and other items. So, instead of checking the forums for the antenna (or antennas) to disconnect, just disable Bluetooth on your phone, or just don't pair your phone up with the Ford console.
I was in a meeting today with a state DOT official who showed how his department buys monthly GPS tracking data on all traffic in the state, combined from companies including TomTom, Garmin, AT&T, etc. by a private company and processed by the University of Maryland. He was able to use it to prioritize road improvements and later show the benefits of those improvements. The data he had (average speeds for small stretches of road at hourly intervals) was quite granular and powerful for what he was doing but innocuous from a privacy perspective. The question should be, who else are these companies selling the data to and in what form?
This is why stuff like OnStar, or the fully connected internet of things is going to be a privacy nightmare.
You can't turn off OnStar and trust they still aren't listening.
When you can't trust that your own property isn't spying on you (which can of course then be subpoena'd by law enforcement), you're pretty much screwed.
It's bad enough everything you do on the internet someone is trying to track -- having your car always telling the company where you are is beyond creepy.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
So far, this hasn't seemed to have happened, but if it does become public, there will be a backlash, especially OnStar which has the ability to track and disable cars in realtime [1].
Ahem. Just a few links that spring to mind. You can easily find others.
TomTom sorry for selling driver data to police
“Government Motors” To Track Drivers With OnStar, Sell Data to Police
OnStar Tracks Your Car Even When You Cancel Service
Busted! Your car's black box is spying, may be used against you in court
Companies should not keep private information about individuals.
The government hates competition.
No, the Government prefers corporations to do their work for them.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Of course they don't. Because they can demand this information from them and use it themselves.
"Well, we couldn't get a warrant to install a GPS tracker, but since your Escalade had a GPS/OnStar, we'll just ask GM for all of your travel history. Gee, it says here you were in an area which is known to have drug dealers and prostitutes".
Much like the Patriot Act rendered cloud-computing to be a security problem for anybody not in the US but using a US based service, the internet of things will essentially cause all of your information to become the property of a company, and readily accessible to the US government.
I can't possibly put enough layers of tin-foil on to make me feel any better about this stuff. Because we're hurtling towards the dystopian future some of us have been fearing for years.
Only we seem to be voluntarily providing the companies with this stuff in return for shiny baubles.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I would rather not pay for the hardware that presents a hazard I need to avoid. Reach a negotiated price with the dealer and let them know that not removing the built-in spy is a deal breaker.
Then make it law, and also make it law that all social sites have to show us what they've collected if we ask for it, AND THEN, destroy it if we quit their sites.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
How about this?
1. Make a unique drawing on a piece of paper. I believe it automatically gets copyright.
2. Drive your car in a pattern matching that drawing.
3. Sue the car maker for having an unauthorized electronic rendition of your copyrighted work. Better yet, get all your friends to do that as well, and make a copyright infringement bomb.
that reminded me of a time when I bought my last used car. I had relocated to a new state, sold my old car and needed a new one, somewhat soon (to stop paying for a rental car). I found a reasonable car at a dealership and we haggled on the price. we sat down and the salesman tried to get me to buy all kinds of useless stuff ('undercoating', etc). I didn't need any of it.
finally, he presents a box, almost like a small ring or jewelry box. it had keys in it for the 'alarm/security' system. I told him I was NOT going to pay for such a thing and it was pretty presumptuous of him to pre-install every used car with this crap! no, I'm not paying for it, remove that or I'll find another car lot to shop at.
well, they don't even de-install it. what he did was take a dummy chip, insert it under the dash in the right socket and - bingo - alarm system was disabled.
I bet a lot of people think they have to buy what is 'pre installed' and so he makes money from those suckers. had I not stood my ground, I would have been charged for that useless bit of kit.
but I was more amazed at how easily disabled it was! if he could do it with a simple dummy chip, I bet the 'bad guys' would also be able to do that. so glad I opted not to pay for such rubbish.
de-installing a gps is not going to happen, though, as oem's integrate it into the dash.
I am old enough to remember the days when you could ask the dealer to 'delete the radio for credit'. sigh.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Right, their security is far beyond what any criminal organization can ever penetrate. Sure. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
When my Tesla was delivered in 2012, I signed a "Data Usage Agreement" that essentially said that they would be collecting all of my data, all of the time, and using it for whatever they wanted (sort of).
I don't know what would have happened if I refused to sign that particular document, as and far as I know, every Tesla owner signed it.
I know of no way to opt out.