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White House Reportedly Dismissing Key Healthcare.gov Contractor

Nerval's Lobster writes "Months after a problem-riddled rollout of the Healthcare.gov Website, the White House is dismissing a key contractor, CGI Federal, that built much of the portal, according to The Washington Post. The newspaper suggested the federal government is on the verge of signing a new contract with a replacement, Accenture, which has some experience in building online health-insurance portals on the state level. 'We are in discussions with potential clients all the time but it is not appropriate to discuss with the media contracts we may or may not be discussing,' an Accenture spokesperson is quoted as saying. Unnamed sources 'familiar with the matter' informed the Post of CGI Federal's dismissal, and suggested that it has much to do with continuing anger over the botched introduction of Healthcare.gov, as well as the pace of continuing repairs to the Website. As their contract is due to expire anyway at the end of February, government officials reportedly decided that it was the perfect time to pull the plug with a minimum of legal ramifications."

41 of 284 comments (clear)

  1. Accenture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Holy fucking shit we're fucked.

    1. Re:Accenture? by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Informative

      No shit.

      (...wait, let me guess - they'll want to move the whole damned thing to an IIS platform too, right?)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Accenture? by msobkow · · Score: 5, Informative

      No kidding. Accenture is one of the worst money-grabbing providers out there. They bring in the "top tech talent" for the initial meetings, then bill you the same rates for a horde of junior incompetents, and you never see that senior talent again.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:Accenture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is nothing wrong with the IIS platform. Accenture is the issue. The vast majority of their PM team cannot find their dick with both hands.

    4. Re:Accenture? by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have never known Accenture to do anything successfully. I worked for a company a few years ago that brought Accenture in to take over running their IT. It was supposed to speed up issue resolution, make experts available, and be less expensive.
      No, no, and NO! Plus they used getting this as a way to get their foot in the door, and then got their people into everything they could. The company is slowly failing.
      I went out and celebrated the day I got my layoff.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    5. Re:Accenture? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They bring in the "top tech talent" for the initial meetings, then bill you the same rates for a horde of junior incompetents, and you never see that senior talent again.

      But, really, do you see this as different from any IT organization/software company you've dealt with?

      The early enthusiasm and usefulness drops off pretty quick once the deal is signed and the sales guys get their commission checks.

      And then you have the people wondering how the hell to implement a flying car and deliver on the unicorns which were promised by the sales guys.

      I've certainly been on the receiving end of this from Oracle and a few others.

      The problem is the people who chase the deals and carefully craft the responses to make it look like you've solved the problem. In a lot of cases, it's basically a shell game.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Accenture? by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is nothing wrong with the IIS platform. Accenture is the issue. The vast majority of their PM team cannot find their dick with both hands.

      Never said it was wrong or right - but it's a common trick with large contractors to declare your existing platform obsolete, insecure, or underpowered, and (after you signed the contract) demand that you shove over to their preferred platform. Of course, they'll point to some esoteric half-hidden legalese thing in the contract that your non-tech legal department completely glossed over, and you never got to see.

      This means they get extra money, more time to ETA, and they move you to whatever they're more comfortable with. It also has the danger of locking you in even tighter come the next contract renewal.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re:Accenture? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Informative

      Could be worse.

      If you think Accenture are incompetent vandals try to get anything done with IBM?

      They charge so much for the tiniest things and then call me about jobs to admin these systems for $24,000 a year. No I am seriously not exaggerating that either as they wanted to pay me $12/hr for a millions of dollar contracts for such systems.

      Great value these poor schmucks are getting for that price.

    8. Re:Accenture? by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Accenture might actually deliver the "top tech talent," at least for the first year. They would be foolish not to, with such a high-profile (and expensive!) contract on the line.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Accenture? by fbumg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can only speak from personal experience, but to me the big difference is that IBM is at least technically competent. I guess as an opponent of Obamacare I should be happy, as this will undoubtedly allow the problems to continue. But I feel for the people that may be depending/hoping for this to come together. Accenture? Really?

      --
      I know I don't know what I don't know.
    10. Re:Accenture? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What plausible reason could there be for moving a project to IIS? Does IIS have any advantages over free alternatives?

      Clearly, you've not dealt with companies who have built their world around a specific technology before.

      Those companies tend to be like hammer-makers -- they view everything as a problem to be solved with a hammer.

      We once had a manger (well, briefly, he was someone's drinking buddy) who was a huge RDB ER-diagram nut.

      Now, our system wasn't an RDB, and was never going to be. In fact, it was nothing at all like an RDB. But, he insisted on making reams of meaningless ER-diagrams which had nothing at all to do with the system.

      We repeatedly told him his diagrams had nothing to do with our system, and that there was no point in creating ER-diagrams that didn't apply, and that we were not going to use them because they were meaningless. He continued to insist that the only workable way to describe what we were doing was with an ER-diagram, and continued to produce even more. Of course, since the ER-diagrams were meaningless, they neither described the system as it existed, nor as it was supposed to be.

      Eventually, his pretty little models were demonstrated to be pure fantasy, completely unrelated to the software at hand, and mostly just something he did to make it look like he was productive. And, to top it off, they were done in software he owned a copy of, but the company didn't -- which means nobody but him could do anything with them besides look at them and wonder what they were for.

      Someone finally understood what the developers had been saying for a while, and realized that not only was this guy not helping us get anything done, he was giving the ER diagrams to the client, who were then asking "what is this, and how does it relate to what we have". Eventually management realized what was happening, and got rid of him.

      It really isn't uncommon for someone to come in and more or less say "I consider myself an expert in X, and you are using Y, therefore in my professional opinion you need to start using X".

      It has nothing at all to do with the specific needs, or even the problem at hand. But it's what they know, and what they think everyone should be using.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    11. Re:Accenture? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think there is a disconnect between price and quality.

      When a CFO see's that he can pay and admin $24,000 vs $85,000 he thinks wow the we have been getting screwed!

      I've never seen quality work out of $24,000 admins or hardly any work for that matter; seems to be a constant churning with these companies as well.

      Really brings the whole quality of the industry down; The C's start to think that's just the way it is as well as the Mids, obviously not that way in reality.

      You know if they had common sense they would write in these contracts that they will refund all the money paid for the contract plus a 25% restocking fee if they get fired before the end of the contract. If they refuse to those terms, that's really telling in the sense that they know that they will fail!

      I am guessing most of the time they count on under bidding the contract and then charging add on's out the nose to their clients, seems like a total scam to me.

      I had 3 headhunters call me in the past 4 months for senior level and management level positions. One was $10/hr and I would be driving with no fuel re-embursment to branch offices, the other were $15/hr with no benefits or roughly $29,000 a year! They were not even junior jobs either. WTF.

      I turned them all down and one was angry and told me IT is not worth that much after I told him what I made on my last contract. The recession has changed people's mindsets as IT is like janitor or plumber work which anyone can do and is sooo easy and just not important. Sadly there are sobs whose unemployment has just run out who took these jobs. This then re-enforces the concept that IT work are like plumbers and other non skilled professions and more money needs to go elsehwere etc.

    12. Re:Accenture? by gregor-e · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it's that the first few weeks of a project, the people they send are actually pretty sharp, enough to make you wonder if maybe you should float a resume over there, since they're billing outrageous gobs for these sharp people, and, hell, if you only got half of that hourly rate it'd still be a good jump up. Then, one by one, they sub out the sharp people with complete drones who require tons of hand-holding and who make n00b mistakes that inevitably slow down the rate of progress. Conveniently, this allows them to bill even more hours at the same top-talent rate you were envious of. Your company ends up paying $200/hr for $20/hr talent, and pays for more hours of this crappy talent to boot.

      Anyone who contemplates renting talent from one of these big consultancy firms would do well to insist on naming specific individual developers in the contract, and add a performance penalty that multiplies the hourly billing rate by MIN(1.0, HOURS_QUOTED / HOURS_BILLED). That will prevent subbing in third-stringers billed at first-stringer rates and will provide diminishing returns for dilatory behavior, as well as incentivize them to think of everything that must be done before committing to a quote.

    13. Re:Accenture? by msmonroe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah sounds right for here as well, but there is a lot of competition and you probably get most jobs through word of mouth.
      Have you heard of the Pareto Principle? Basically if we apply it to the Plummbers 20% are making 80% of the money or $60 dollars an hour. Good to be in that 20% but if your in that 80% not as good; your probably working a lot of construction jobs to feed your family.

    14. Re:Accenture? by Kalriath · · Score: 4

      You get a very rich platform that can grow big. After trying to learn Drupal it seems just like a big hack. Sure your Ruby on rails can do some cool things but can it do MVC, 3-tier SOA architecture, use Hibernate, linQ, or advanced data persistent frameworks for SQL databases that much Java Enterprise Edition or .NET?

      Yes Ruby can do MVC. Yes it can do 3-tier. No, it can't use Hibernate but it has ActiveRecord which serves a similar purpose, and yes it can use data persistence frameworks. I think you're being a little hard on it, and I'm a dyed in the wool .NET Developer.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    15. Re:Accenture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hello. I am the guy who designed AND implemented 4 state healthcare solutions.

      Back when I worked for IBM I remember being the odd man out in a room full of Accenture people for a 80 million dollar insurance project (company rhymes with Farrmers .. no it was Farmers Insurance). So IBM is terrible and currently in a race to the bottom in terms of dollars spent on resources (My current contract has me and a few Indians plus a hundred worthless Chinese coding for IBM) BUT Accenture was a real eye opener.

      Imagine a world in which you are given a team of 8 people. 1 of them was a frat boy. 1 of them was a sorority girl and the other 6 of them just graduated from wherever and are learning on your dime. I have never, in my life of consulting which is LONG witness a more worthless fucking organization than Accenture. It exists purely to employ the most worthless and without talent amongst us and is perpetuated by the same.

      I hate IBM, I would kill your mother and fuck her rancid corpse to rid the earth of Accenture.

  2. Accenture does a fairly good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Accenture does a fairly good job with contract development and support. This doesn't seem to be a bad call.

    1. Re:Accenture does a fairly good job. by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think the mod meant to give it a +1 YouGottaBeShittingMe, but forgot that Slashdot doesn't have that in the options.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  3. We all know what this means..... by 3seas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can add another 9 months or more to allow whatever new contractor to take over the code base or start anew. And by the time, if ever, it is fully functional we can be sure the direction will have changed again.

    What I'd like to know is which taxpayers agreed on spending their taxes on this? The only citizens I found supporting this are those who do not pay income taxes.

    1. Re:We all know what this means..... by buswolley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taxes don't pay for Federal expenditures. That is a fallacy that is all too common.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    2. Re:We all know what this means..... by RandomFactor · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ok.... so, what does, our children?

      --
      --- Mercutio was right.
    3. Re:We all know what this means..... by danlip · · Score: 5, Informative

      Accenture already did the California implementation. And they've already had time to work out the problem. Hopefully they wrote that code so it could easily be reused for the federal site (since it is Accenture, that may be a slim hope).

    4. Re:We all know what this means..... by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, other peoples' children. This is Slashdot, remember, the home of single basement-dwelling neckbeards.

    5. Re:We all know what this means..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Accenture also produced the myCalPERS webapp used by California state employees to access and change information regarding their retirement accounts and fringe benefits. From what I know about it from people on the inside, that app is a disaster that is being slowly cleaned up and fixed by state employees as part of the state taking over responsibility for its maintenance. Accenture does not have a good track record. But the documentation they produced is good.

  4. Hmmm ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And the next question is will these guys do any better?

    I've been involved in contracting with governments, and failures of projects are as often as not caused by the incompetence of the government people and their inability to understand what they want, but then blamed on the contractors who couldn't make the system do what it needed.

    As is always the case, some times the devil is in the details, and just because the project failed, doesn't mean the people blamed for it actually were the ones who made the project fail.

    Sometimes, it just means it's easier to blame the contractor, when in fact the client was completely inept.

    1. Re:Hmmm ... by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are correct, but hiring a contractor with some rather spectacular failures (and numerous smaller ones) isn't exactly going to fix that...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Hmmm ... by CubicleZombie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sometimes, it just means it's easier to blame the contractor, when in fact the client was completely inept.

      Think about the worst requirements you've ever had to deal with. Now imagine 2700 pages of even worse requirements written by CONGRESS. Then throw Obama in the mix, issuing Executive Orders that change the system at every turn.

      --
      :wq
  5. Why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    CGI has already received their $678 million dollars. Let's throw some more money at it to see if someone else can fix it now.

  6. Now I'm not IT expert... by Noishkel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... but I don't think firing everyone in charge of a massive project does a lot of good when it you're trying to make it work.

    1. Re:Now I'm not IT expert... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... but I don't think firing everyone in charge of a massive project does a lot of good when it you're trying to make it work.

      No, but it gives the impression that you're Trying to Fix It.

      My question is "how much will change?" How much of this can be laid at the feet of the contractor, and how much was more of a symptom of the inability of the feds to handle the project? Because I've dealt with clients who essentially made a successful project impossible, and then groused when they didn't get a successful project (as if we could force them to do what was needed, but they ignored or failed to actually do).

      I don't always assume that just because they say "it was all their fault" that it was actually the case. Sometimes, it's people covering their own asses making the claim.

      Most especially where governments are concerned.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  7. Not just the government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's not just the federal government (healthcare.gov) that's fucked this up; state exchanges (like Covered California, supposedly on the forefront of things, to say nothing of Oregon's health exchange, who, to put it kindly, isn't at the top of the heap) have also fucked this up.

    But it's not just the governments that have fucked this up. The private insurers have fucked this up beyond all recognition. Anthem's web-based payment system was unable to accept payments during the last week of December. Customers who signed up weeks before the deadline weren't billed until the new year. Multi-hour wait times for humans have resulted in Anthem's CA PR-bot being inundated with complaints.

    You don't have insurance until you actually pay. This is difficult when the insurance company itself refuses to accept payment.

    1. Re:Not just the government. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I tried New York's system and it kept insisting that I wasn't a real person. This was after I entered in personal information which, as the victim of identity theft, made me very uncomfortable entering into an online form (Social Security number, date of birth, etc) but that I rationalized was needed for this process. I did eventually get in, but via a roundabout way that involved signing up for an account with the DMV. Don't ask me what the DMV has to do with health care (beyond using the same login schema).

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  8. This is a PR move. by EMG+at+MU · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who cares if they get dismissed a few weeks before their contract expired. Do they still get paid for the steaming pile of shit they created? Absolutely. Will they continue to get government contracts after this blows over? Absolutely.

    This is a PR move.

  9. Gov't skips testing orders last minute changes by perpenso · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the congressional testimony, http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/politics/congress-obamacare-website/:

    "In the first detailed account of what happened, officials of four contractors involved in the website creation described a convoluted system of multiple companies operating separately under the oversight of CMS, a part of the Department of Health and Human Services. Each said their individual components generally performed as planned after internal testing, but all conceded that CMS failed to conduct sufficient "end-to-end" testing of the entire system before the launch ... an end-to-end test conducted within two weeks of the launch caused the system to crash. She said it was up to CMS to decide on proceeding with the rollout."

    "... blamed a decision by CMS within two weeks of the launch to require users to fully register in order to browse for health insurance products, instead of being able to get information anonymously, as originally planned."

    The preceding should not be interpreted to mean that the contractor did good work. That may have been a problem as well. My point is that government officials were basically sabotaging their project through mismanagement. It appears that politicians were in control.

  10. Yay, another foreign corporation by CyberLeader · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you're tired of screwing it up like amateurs, bring in Accenture so you can screw it up like professionals!

    My firm has made a lot of money cleaning up Accenture's disasters. It's a living.

    So while Accenture was originally based in Bermuda, they've since moved their corporate HQ to Ireland. Could we at least pick a vendor incorporated in the U.S.?

    --

    Software Shouldn't Suck

    E-mail: frank at jacquette dot spamless com (remove the spamless!)

  11. Re:Why is this so hard by bussdriver · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From what I've heard and read over the years, off the top of my head:

    1) Software has more complexity than most everything else; big systems more so. Software can change faster and expectations change faster; it's not a machine that is going to be used for decades and needs to remain similar over that time for maintenance reasons.

    2) 2 year cycles where political changes result in different pressures, demands, etc. I've heard this is a BIG problem with government projects from multiple sources. A lot of the time that new "oversight" is anything but a smokescreen for an agenda... sometimes it is intentionally to derail the process (for example, to make room to add another contractor.)

    3) Moving targets! Specifications are not detailed enough and/or they change during development - especially across the 2 year political cycles. These regulations they pass can take a year just to be legally codified into enough detail to be useful and even then implementing it in software involves lawyers and additional decisions / interpretations in order to implement it. Then you have the legal cases which decide things that cause changes as well...

    4) Short deadlines, high demands. This was a 5 year project and they had about 2-3 years of time and charged more money but throwing money at development doesn't speed it up with the same level quality as normal project pacing.

    5) Consultants are paid by TIME not success. Ask anything you want, they'll say yes and just bill more hours. Failure just means more hours and successful completion is not a big motivation.

    6) The more contractors who have to work together the more troubles are created.

    7) The more governments and gov departments, the more hurdles you have. Like contractors but worse; especially, if those governments are not cooperative, competent, or responsive. Many state governments and politicians have been trying to harm this project.

    8) Contracts, renewals, punishments are purely political, NOT results oriented. Failure only delays you until the next contract you bribe your way into - if you even end up fired at all. This company was probably #1 in getting contracts and not in their services provided; they'll get plenty of future contracts and probably do nothing to improve the quality of their services... as they likely did in the past. The entire political process is a huge target for attack by contractors; it's best to do it in house than contract to sufficiently large contractors who can manipulate the process.

    9) Metrics. Measurements of success or failure are purely political. Even with contractual metrics specified upfront, politics trumps all reason or law. Specific goals can be met but general ones can be grandstanded -- or design flaws that were approved or demanded can be shifted from the actual culprits to the contractors.

    10) Lawyers. Involved all over. If not the root of all evil, they are right afterwards. Don't award corp X the contract, get sued by corp X. Fire corp Y for failure to deliver, get sued by corp Y or the gov sues corp Y... Need a decision to move forward with some implementation detail? must run it by the lawyers 1st... that could end up in legal battles with multiple parties before being resolved and I'm not saying these legal battles all take place in court.

  12. Re:Contracted Potential by JDG1980 · · Score: 4, Informative

    In a company of 280,000+ employees, Accenture has the capacity and expertise to make the IT side of the government healthcare offerings work.

    Pull the other one.

    Most of Accenture's tech employees are Indians with inflated (or fraudulent) credentials.

  13. Re:knee jerk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    By design / sabotage... http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/28/330524/postal-non-crisis-post-office-save-itself/

    "... what has been lost in the political debate over the Post Office is why it is losing this money. Major media coverage points to the rise of email or Internet services and the inefficiency of the post model as the major culprits. While these factors may cause some fiscal pain, almost all of the postal service’s losses over the last four years can be traced back to a single, artificial restriction forced onto the Post Office by the Republican-led Congress in 2006.
    At the very end of that year, Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA). Under PAEA, USPS was forced to “prefund its future health care benefit payments to retirees for the next 75 years in an astonishing ten-year time span” — meaning that it had to put aside billions of dollars to pay for the health benefits of employees it hasn’t even hired yet, something “that no other government or private corporation is required to do.”
    As consumer advocate Ralph Nader noted, if PAEA was never enacted, USPS would actually be facing a $1.5 billion surplus today:
    By June 2011, the USPS saw a total net deficit of $19.5 billion, $12.7 billion of which was borrowed money from Treasury (leaving just $2.3 billion left until the USPS hits its statutory borrowing limit of $15 billion). This $19.5 billion deficit almost exactly matches the $20.95 billion the USPS made in prepayments to the fund for future retiree health care benefits by June 2011. If the prepayments required under PAEA were never enacted into law, the USPS would not have a net deficiency of nearly $20 billion, but instead be in the black by at least $1.5 billion."

  14. Re:Government income is not just taxes by tsqr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Where did that come from?

    "Individual income taxes and payroll taxes accounted for 82 percent of all federal revenues in fiscal year 2010. Corporate income taxes contributed another 9 percent. Excise taxes, estate and gift taxes, customs duties, and miscellaneous receipts (earnings of the Federal Reserve System and various fees and charges) made up the balance."
    -- What are the federal government’s sources of revenue?

  15. Classmate != Buddy by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nobody's ever shown they are actually "buddies". Prominent Republicans have also gone to the same school at the time, and probably bumped into them at times. Does that make them "cronies" also? Let's not sling mud without solid evidence.

  16. Re:We're fucked no matter what ! by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 3, Informative

    Its really funny you cannot answer that question yourself....