How Chris Christie Could Use the NSA Playbook

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Conor Friedersdorf has written a tongue-in-cheek article in The Atlantic advising New Jersey Governor Chris Christie how he can use the NSA playbook to successfully defend himself of the charges that a senior member of his staff was involved in shutting down George Washington Bridge traffic, a stunt meant to punish the mayor of an affected town for opposing his reelection. Christie's NSA-inspired explanation would include the following points: There are almost 9 million people in New Jersey, and only one was targeted for retribution, an impressively tiny error rate lower than .001 percent; The bridge closure was vital to national security because [redacted]; Since the George Washington Bridge is a potential terrorist target, everything that may or may not have happened near it is a state secret; Going after a political rival is wrong but it's important to put this event in context; Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich was the only target of non-compliant behavior. No other Fort Lee resident was ever targeted for retribution, and any delays that any Fort Lee resident experienced were totally inadvertent and incidental; Finally a panel will be formed to figure out how to restore the public's faith in Chris Christie. "To some readers, these talking points may seem absurd or deliberately misleading," concludes Friedersdorf, "but there isn't any denying that so far they're working okay for the NSA.""

Comments

beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

it is really telling that the public official closed the bridge illegally and nobody is sitting in jail for this.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

“Chris Christie is dealing with a scandal after it was revealed that a top aide shut down access to the George Washington Bridge to get back at a Democratic mayor for not endorsing him. Christie was furious when they blocked the bridge because he thought they said they were blocking the fridge.” –Jimmy Fallon

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicans/a/Chris-Christie-Jokes.htm

Re:beacon of freedom

[ebno-10db]

It is really telling that your entire list refers to a certain Democratic president, and mixes in things that (in your opinion) are bad policy. There are plenty of legitimate complaints about corruption in government, and then there are partisan shills. By acting as the latter, you demonstrate that you have no real concern about the former.

Re:beacon of freedom

[cold fjord]

By labeling that poster a "shill" you are obviously attempting to delegitimize the criticism over policy matters. Should we likewise label you a "shill" acting in defense of the administration or its policies? Apparently nobody here can hold an opinion without being a "shill." That does get to be tedious.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you're a shill, but I do think that you slurp the NSA's collective mommasack.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe the president for the past couple of years has been a fucking democrat and recent examples are the first ones that came to mind?

Re:beacon of freedom

[DiamondGeezer]

I think its telling that Chris Christie didn't attempt any of that BS when he apologized.

Re:beacon of freedom

[_KiTA_]

It is really telling that the ATF gave over 2500 guns to Mexican drug cartels, and no one from the ATF, DOJ, or Obama Administration is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that the IRS targeted political opponents during an election year, and no one from the IRS, DOT, or Obama Administration is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that Obama campaign donors at Solyndra got $500,000,000 of tax payer money, promptly went bankrupt, and no one from the DOE is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that the Fed prints $75,000,000,000 a month, totaling over $4,000,000,000,000 in the last 5 years, and no one from the fed is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that the president himself breaks the PPACA on a daily basis by announcing parts he will be temporarily or permanently not enforcing, and he's not sitting in jail.

Wow, that's a fun list. I count 3... 4? outright lies, 4 completely made up scandals, 1 thing taken completely out of context, several words that don't mean what you think they mean, and a complete lack of understanding as to how civics works.

It's always fun to debunk these kinds of lists, because I always learn something new, usually something that makes me proud of what our country is doing.

The only sad thing is that it takes me hours and the people posting them will either blindly ad hominem them ("YOU LINKED DAILYKOS THAT MEANS YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD~!~!"), call me a "liberal commy fagg 'MERICA hater", or ignore me and go right back to posting about how Obama was raised by Karl Marx on the Socialist Moonbase on the dark side of Mars or something. Or go back to quoting from the sites those guys run. Same difference, really.

Anyway, lets go!

1. Fast and Furious was made up. The entire thing was based on one right wing ATF source, who was discovered to be lying. It has been debunked so often that even the actual GOP doesn't mention it, only ultra-far right idiots in the Tea Party talk about it nowadays.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/irs-scandal-democratic-acorn_n_3785717.html

2. Ditto for the IRS scandal, which was also made up. Darrel Issa asked the investigator to ignore the fact that the IRS was looking at all groups claiming to be charities, as they are REQUIRED TO DO BY LAW, and merely provide him talking points on Republican ones. The real scandal? The IRS failed to notice 10 out of 11 of the Koch brothers fake charities were fake charities. You'll note that Issa doesn't even bother talking about this one anymore, he's too busy trying to use Benghazi to kneecap President Hilary Clinton before her 2016 victory.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/26/1219172/-Here-s-how-Darrell-Issa-manufactured-the-IRS-scandal

3. Solyndra's loan was one of Bush's projects, not Obama's, and there's a HUGE difference between George Kaiser (a billionaire who raised a whopping 50-100k for Obama) and the Kaiser Family Foundation (a charity he started). There's a whole boatload more of made up crap about Solyndra, it's a very transparent manufactured scandal to try and drive us away from Solar and Wind technologies -- because oil will never run out or anything. I'll just leave this link as an exercise to the reader:
http://ourfuture.org/20120926/the-phony-solyndra-solar-scandal

4. Literally not true. The "Fed prints $75,000,000,000" is such a common meme that there are so many Tea Party sites shatting it out that it's hard to discover it's source. Took a while, but I found it - The fed is buying back a bunch of T-Bonds and Mortgage Bonds at the rate of 75 billion a month as part of the stimulus package, but that's not "printing money." The Feds have a FAQ entry up on it here, for those who don't roll

Re:beacon of freedom

[timeOday]

the IRS targeted political opponents during an election year

Actually the IRS scandal is a myth. There's nothing behind it. It started with a self-serving selection of evidence and was confirmed only by multiple levels of management practicing CYA.

Re:beacon of freedom

[cold fjord]

It is really telling that your entire list refers to a certain Democratic president, and mixes in things that (in your opinion) are bad policy.

If you're going to criticize the President that is actually in power you are stuck criticizing Obama at the moment. Don't you think it is fair to criticize him for the policies and actions of his administration?

You call him a "shill," and yet you are attacking the commenter for criticizing the only president in power he can comment on, not the comments. What does that make you?

Can we store your comment until after the next election and flip "Democrat" to "Republican" to use on you? It will probably be just as applicable.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with the OP comments, but I like to read rebuttals.

I read the one about fast and furious that you said was completely made up (Over 200 dead Mexicans disagree), so I followed you link, even though it was Huff Post. I figured the Huff Post would have a link to where the information that it was fake would be. It didn't even MENTION Fast and Furious.

Were you just posting random links hoping people wouldn't follow them? It talked about the IRS scadal, and I've read the DNC talking points on that and they are all lies. No right wing group got tax exempt status for over 2 year, a process that is not to take longer than 90 days. Because of that many donors could not donate until they got the status. I've yet to find a source to debunk that bit of fact.

So I stopped following your talking points because they appear to be just made up with random links.

Re:beacon of freedom

[guises]

Oh, come on. This was revealed, what? Two days ago? You're angry because convictions don't happen instantaneously? You can get angry about this is in a few months when we find out that the prosecutor has decided to drop the investigation. You're really jumping the gun here.

Re: beacon of freedom

[JWW]

Your point for 4 is no better than what was originally stated. It's still very bad monetary policy.

And for 5 you're the one spreading bullshit. The republicans have been unable to pass anything to actually get in the way of Obamacare. Sure republican governors have opted out of building exchanges but the law gave then that choice. What the law didn't do was allow insurance to be sold across state lines, which would have only required a federal exchange. It was a colossal miss by the law. Oh and the gp post is correct Obama's constant executive changing of the law is sure as hell completely illegal.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Attila Dimedici]

You are correct that he should not have brought the Fed's stimulus into this discussion and probably not Solyndra or PPACA (at least not the way in which he did). However, the point to note is that the media have already spent more time covering the bridge closing than it has the IRS targeting Obama political opponents (both in slow walking applications for non-profit status and starting audits against those who have spoken out about problems with PPACA), or on the Fast & Furious gun running by the BATF to Mexican drug cartels.

Re:beacon of freedom

[nameer]

With respect to 4, no the Federal Reserve is not "literally printing money", however the money deposited in the reserve accounts of the member banks is indeed new money. This can be fairly described euphemistically as "printing money." The important question is whether the increase in the money supply risks inflation. Currently, it doesn't look like it. And now we are starting to move into the "remove the punch bowl" phase of monetary policy with reductions in the buying program. As the Federal reserve eventually transitions from buying to selling its bond holdings, the money that the member banks pay the Fed to buy back the bonds disappears in a poof as money is removed from the money supply. It will be interesting to see if we can get the meme going, "The Fed burns $XM every month!"

Re:beacon of freedom

[inode_buddha]

Its called "intelectual honesty". Try it sometime.

Re:beacon of freedom

[readin]

So you use a bunch of left-wing websites to "debunk" the news?

I don't have time to go into everything, and in fact most of the list doesn't interest me that much.

But the IRS scandal wasn't hatched a couple days before the national press finally noticed. The IRS behavior was being noticed and complained about for many many months before it became widespread knowledge. You probably heard about the IRS being used as a political weapon in spring of 2013.

From July of 2012, "Even worse, the IRS has responded to dozens of tax-exemption applications by tea-party groups with astonishingly intrusive document demands, seeking not only donor lists but also lists of volunteers." http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/310384/obama-s-sunshine-policy-david-french

Mr. French is referring to a DailyCaller article from February 2012, http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/22/congressional-investigations-sought-over-irs-assault-on-tea-party-groups/

Yes it's true that these are all conservative websites, but who else was going to cover news at that time that was negative to President Obama and wasn't already high profile?

Anyway, here is a non-conservative site debunking your debunking http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/14/irs-tea-party-progressive-groups/2158831/

Re:beacon of freedom

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

1. Fast and Furious was made up. The entire thing was based on one right wing ATF source, who was discovered to be lying. It has been debunked so often that even the actual GOP doesn't mention it, only ultra-far right idiots in the Tea Party talk about it nowadays.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/irs-scandal-democratic-acorn_n_3785717.html

That link is to a completely unrelated story about the IRS. I was hoping you had some proof, because that was the first time I've heard that Fast and Furious was all bullshit. So I searched the same website for more info and didn't find anything to support your claim. What I did find was an article from july 2013 talking about two more deaths in mexico linked to those guns - not something I'd expect to see from "huffpo" if the scandal had been debunked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/06/fast-and-furious-gun_n_3554854.html

Re:beacon of freedom

[guises]

He's a shill because he's phrasing his criticism of the president (in the middle of a conversation about the governor of New Jersey) in a way that implies neutrality. He claims to be talking about corruption in government, and yet for some reason every one of his examples (other than "the fed") is either related to the president or is claimed to relate to the president. Again, in a conversation that has nothing to do with the president.

The reason he ignored GP's comments is because it's been done to death. Anyone reading this who doesn't know the reasoning behind each of those is blinded by partisanship.

Briefly though, because the Solyndra BS pisses me off more than any of the others:

I would fucking *love it* if the federal government would start making solar panels and selling them to people directly, but certain agitators would start screaming about socialism if the money isn't given to private interests instead. When you give money to to private companies there's always the chance that they'll go bankrupt. That's how it works. If you look at the whole program, rather than just at Solyndra, most of the companies did fine - a better success rate than most programs like this one.

Re:beacon of freedom

[readin]

Myths: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/350595/five-irs-scandal-myths-andrew-stiles

Re:beacon of freedom

[readin]

It is really telling that your entire list refers to a certain Democratic president, and mixes in things that (in your opinion) are bad policy.

You're right. Maybe we should do something about that guy.

But we won't. When Nixon did similar stuff, the Republican senators went to him and told him it was time to go. He resigned in disgrace. The Republican senators and representatives were punished mercilessly for it and lost many seats in Congress. The Democrats have learned the lesson well - in this age of widespread ignorance their political fortunes depend more on the popularity of their president or presidential candidate than it does on their individual actions. The demonstrated in with Clinton that they will defend their guy no matter what (even when he lies under oath - that used to be a big deal). They certainly won't go after Obama.

Re:beacon of freedom

[readin]

If I had made that list it would focus on two events
* The closing of national parks, blocking of scenic overlooks, etc. that were often unnecessary and in fact more expensive than not doing them during the government shutdown. The President was attempting to blame Republicans for pain he was inflicting.
. * The IRS targeting of conservative groups that effectively prevented them from having a strong effect during the 2012 election.

Re:beacon of freedom

[_KiTA_]

1. Fast and Furious was made up. The entire thing was based on one right wing ATF source, who was discovered to be lying. It has been debunked so often that even the actual GOP doesn't mention it, only ultra-far right idiots in the Tea Party talk about it nowadays.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/irs-scandal-democratic-acorn_n_3785717.html

That link is to a completely unrelated story about the IRS. I was hoping you had some proof, because that was the first time I've heard that Fast and Furious was all bullshit. So I searched the same website for more info and didn't find anything to support your claim. What I did find was an article from july 2013 talking about two more deaths in mexico linked to those guns - not something I'd expect to see from "huffpo" if the scandal had been debunked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/06/fast-and-furious-gun_n_3554854.html

Sorry, too many links. Have some more appropriate links, and thank you for catching that:
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/not-so-fast-on-fast-and-furious/

Re:beacon of freedom

[stenvar]

it is really telling that the public official closed the bridge illegally and nobody is sitting in jail for this.

"Telling?" If you look at politics, this is business as usual. Bush, Obama, Clinton, Reagan, they all have done much worse. Christie just was particularly stupid because he acted on something that's a bit sensitive and exercised his power out of complete pettiness instead of advancing his career through it. But by the time the next election comes around, voters will have forgotten even this.

Re:beacon of freedom

[BringsApples]

It is really telling that our 'leaders' are criminals, and that they employ people that we commonly call 'the police' to uphold laws, and that those 'police' guys are so 'blinded by their own sense of importance' that they won't put their bosses in jail, all because of 'the chain of command'. It's this 'chain of command', and why it's followed as it currently is, that's the real telling thing in America these days.

At some point The People are going to wake up to the fact that criminals run this place in an orderly fashion. Imagine how nice things could be if normal honest people ran $the_country (because this goes for all countries). Or, is that even possible? I hear that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Dunno...

Re:beacon of freedom

[stenvar]

It is really telling that your entire list refers to a certain Democratic president

Abuse of power has been far worse under this president than under previous presidents. And that certain Democratic president happens to be our current president.

and mixes in things that (in your opinion) are bad policy

All of the things he lists are actual abuses of power, not mere policy disagreements.

and then there are partisan shills

"Shill" implies a clandestine attempt to influence discussions; there is nothing clandestine about his (or mine) views. And while I can't speak for felrom, I'm not partisan: I disliked Bush with the same fervor as I disliked Obama, but since Bush is thankfully gone, there is no need to criticize him anymore.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Sique]

He is still the less steaming pile of shit compared to the alternative: Quantum Romney, who holds a superposition of all possible political positions, until one starts to observe him closely, then he will collapse to a position according to the respective political convictions of the observer. I think the main problem with Barack Obama is that he is only interested in his social programs and does not really care about anything else, leaving it to the persons in the departements and then staunchly supporting them even if they totally screw up. (And he seems to like people who know how to handle a computer and mainly thinks they can do no wrong as long as they are working for him.)

Re:beacon of freedom

[Goldsmith]

I think you're mixing politics with ethics.

Does anything you brought up matter to the overall point that government is in the habit of breaking it's own laws?

Fast and Furious lost "strength" as a scandal because gun walking was revealed to be a "standard" technique implemented at a local level. There's questionable legal and moral basis for this, regardless of whose fault it is politically. There's a big difference between something seen as a "fake scandal" and something which "didn't happen." Gun walking does happen and it shouldn't.

It was still wrong for the IRS to delay applications the way they did; the IRS still insisted on information they weren't entitled to. The IRS did share information with people outside government that they shouldn't have. It's not ok that these things happened just because it hurt people evenly across the political spectrum.

It's not ok for any president to ignore implementing a law. Does the fact that Bush's administration ignored environmental law make it ok that Obama's administration ignores the health care law? This doesn't make any sense. Can the next administration pick a new set of laws to ignore? It's silly. We don't want a system where that kind of behavior is ok.

Your arguments are part of the problem here. (PART, not the whole problem, calm down...) We have to stop looking at things in terms of who is winning and losing politically. The root problem in our country is a pattern of poor governance. Regardless of who is in power, we need to expect and receive competent and ethical government. We are not getting that. (And the point of this discussion is that Christie is part of the problem, not the solution.)

There were many moderate Republicans and Independent voters who recognized after Bush that the Republican party had "lost" the ability to effectively govern (I was one of them). There will be many moderate Democrats and Independents who now come to the same conclusion about the Democratic party. As you point out, government is more than just the person at the top, it's the infrastructure, culture and people installed in the hundreds of administrative positions under the president. Now though, we have few (no?) credible alternatives to turn to...

Re:beacon of freedom

[tomhath]

There's this concept called "Due Process". Prosecutors investigate what happened, decide if someone should be charged. Then there's this thing called a trial. If someone is finally found guilty they might go to jail.

At this point there is absolutely no evidence that Christie knew his staff was involved. But Democrats will be harping on the "scandal" for the next three years because Christie is the biggest threat to the gravy train they've been enjoying for the past five years.

Re:beacon of freedom

[stenvar]

1. Fast and Furious was made up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious

I'm not even going to bother debunking the rest of your b.s. You are either f*cking insane or a pathological liar.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't understand Solydra.

There is no evidence that the president did anything wrong, but the White House staff certainly did. They knew that it was almost certain to going go belly up. They had the breakdown, and a formal analysis that said not to invest there. They chose to ignore the warning, possibly because they thought they had a good media darling to dangle in front of the public. Also, the loan itself was illegally structured. The federal government was put in the back of the line for recollecting assets in bankruptcy, instead of the front. This mechanic certainly made it look like either cronyism, or kickbacks.

Argue if you will, but something heinous happened there. If it wasn't illegal behavior, it certainly was incompetent. As far as we know, nobody was even "reassigned" over that one.

Re:beacon of freedom

[superwiz]

Yet. No one is sitting in jail, yet. This was just uncovered. Everyone involved is already punished to some degree though. The public official was fired. The political adviser was not only fired but was told he would not be eligible to work as a consultant for any Republican governor again.

Re:beacon of freedom

[superwiz]

Unlike Christie, Obama hasn't fired anyone responsible though. So unlike Christie, Obama is guilty.

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

All they did was fuck up tracking guns that were sold to known drug runners by people whose idea of tracking gun sales is to write them on rolls of toilet paper and whose idea of background checks is to look behind the guy.

No, it's worse than that. They simply didn't track these weapons or notify Mexican authorities that they were doing this (Mexican authorities learned about Fast and Furious when the scandal became public via whistleblowers after the death of a US Border Patrol agent involving two guns from the program), and the gun sellers were in on the alleged sting and were authorized by the ATF agents involved to sell those weapons as they did.

In addition, the Sinaloa Cartel got a free ticket for at least a year to smuggle guns and who knows what else into Mexico in addition to those 2000 or so guns. Maybe it was a sting and maybe it was substantial aid for a favored cartel.

He's half right, Solyndra started the process to get the loan in 2007. Should Obama have known to cut them off halfway through? Who knows... They didn't get the money then "promptly go bankrupt" though.

Yes, he should have cut off the process. And yes, they did go promptly bankrupt since they were out of cash in about 15 months of getting the loan money and bankrupt in two years.

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

I would fucking *love it* if the federal government would start making solar panels and selling them to people directly, but certain agitators would start screaming about socialism if the money isn't given to private interests instead.

Why? It's not the federal government's job to make solar panels. And given how incompetent they are about anything else, I can't imagine why you'd want them to.

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

If you look at the whole program, rather than just at Solyndra, most of the companies did fine - a better success rate than most programs like this one.

Just because companies haven't gone bankrupt yet doesn't mean that they have succeeded.

I'm looking at Abengoa SA, for example. They got almost $3 billion in guaranteed loans through this program to build infrastructure worth a fraction of that. I don't see that ending pretty, especially with their likely exposure (being the largest Spanish sustainable energy business) to the Spanish solar power industry, which completely lost its government subsidies over the past few years.

Re:beacon of freedom

[bill_mcgonigle]

The fed is buying back a bunch of T-Bonds and Mortgage Bonds at the rate of 75 billion a month as part of the stimulus package, but that's not "printing money."

Where is the Fed getting the money to pay for the purchases?

Re:beacon of freedom

[Jawnn]

It is really telling that the ATF gave over 2500 guns to Mexican drug cartels, and no one from the ATF, DOJ, or Obama Administration is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that the IRS targeted political opponents during an election year, and no one from the IRS, DOT, or Obama Administration is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that Obama campaign donors at Solyndra got $500,000,000 of tax payer money, promptly went bankrupt, and no one from the DOE is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that the Fed prints $75,000,000,000 a month, totaling over $4,000,000,000,000 in the last 5 years, and no one from the fed is sitting in jail.
It is really telling that the president himself breaks the PPACA on a daily basis by announcing parts he will be temporarily or permanently not enforcing, and he's not sitting in jail.

[citation needed]

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we store your comment until after the next election and flip "Democrat" to "Republican" to use on you?

I suppose this is a rhetorical question, and my answer is irrelevant, but still, I suggest you do not.

The left/right paradigm makes all proper debate useless, and makes people entrenched in one of two positions, forever allowing such things like this to happen in the first place. Like the goats in Animal Farm, people who do these things kill all discussion.

Therefore, it was wrong to bring up the left/right paradigm when this guy did it, and it will be wrong to do it when the other group of puppets are in position as well.

Re:beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

1. Fast and Furious was made up.

Your link doesn't talk about Fast and Furious. Maybe you mis-linked? Not only is it real, Obama seems to have tried to cover up parts of it.

2. Ditto for the IRS scandal, which was also made up.

The Department of Treasury disagrees.

I don't care about Solyndra, but saying, "The Fed is not printing money, they are buying bonds" is about the same as saying a paypal transfer is not giving someone money. The Fed is buying bonds with money they create, their explicit goal is to increase the money supply. Of course, it's not exactly a scandal, and it's not Obama's fault.

It isn't required for the president to enforce all laws (which is a good thing), so I don't care about that either. It is rather amusing that the president's own law was so poorly designed that he has to avoid enforcing it, though.

Re:beacon of freedom

[DexterIsADog]

But we won't. When Nixon did similar stuff, the Republican senators went to him and told him it was time to go. He resigned in disgrace.

Gee, I missed the news when Obama's burglars were caught breaking into the office of the psychiatrist for one of the enemies on his list, and was discovered to be paying bribes to silence witnesses.

Can you throw me a link? No? Just to discussions of policies you don't like? Oh, okay.

I'm disappointed in Obama, but I do wish he'd get caught doing something to compare to Nixon - only I'd like that something to be similar to the creation of the EPA.

Re:beacon of freedom

[guises]

Government programs are usually, not always, more efficient than private counterparts. Medicare, for example, operates at an 8% overhead, while insurance companies were complaining that the 15% overhead that the Affordable Care Act allows them was untenable. The advantage that private industry has is in innovation, not efficiency.

It's the government's job to promote the economy and maintain public resources. In this case that meant pushing clean energy, both as a long-term economic goal and as a means of environmental conservation. There are many ways that the government can work towards objectives like this one, one way is to give money to private organizations and another is to simply go ahead and do it. You're asking me why I have the preference that I do: one factor is that giving public money to private companies is one avenue, the most traveled avenue, for corruption. So this always makes me pause. Even when everything is above board, this isn't taking advantage of the system that we've set up for ourselves - the market and private companies are there as a source of innovation. Innovation can sometimes lead to efficiency, and that's great and all, but when you're looking to just get something done as smoothly as possible you're not looking for new methods and creative ways of thinking about the problem. If we're looking to flood the country with solar panels then we can do it ourselves, there's no need to go through some roundabout public/private process.

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

Medicare, for example, operates at an 8% overhead, while insurance companies were complaining that the 15% overhead that the Affordable Care Act allows them was untenable.

And Medicare doesn't do proper checks for fraud. Keep in mind that a lot of the insurer overhead is put in place by the same government which doesn't put that same burden on Medicare. Going back to the solar power example, the US government would probably "streamline" its manufacturing by waiving itself from the more burdensome EPA and OSHA regulation, just like it did in the past with nuclear power.

If we're looking to flood the country with solar panels then we can do it ourselves, there's no need to go through some roundabout public/private process.

Protip: we're not looking to flood the country with solar panels. This is a great example of why governments can be so inefficient. You are arguing that the federal government can very efficiently do a colossally wasteful action. But suppose we don't want to do that?

Re:beacon of freedom

[ganjadude]

really? you mean you didnt hear about the NSA breaking into EVERYONES office?? I mean hell nixon only invaded 1 office, the sitting president, and previous president have been invading EVERYONE

Re:beacon of freedom

[HornWumpus]

Hint: The NSA technically 'works' for Obama. Not that they don't have a nice thick file on him so the truth is almost certainly the opposite.

Re:beacon of freedom

[ganjadude]

you use huffpo and dailykos as your arguments?? that would be like using glenn beck or sean hannity as sources....

Re:beacon of freedom

[ganjadude]

Lets see here, IRS was a lie?? If so why did they apologize for it?? I see your daily kos and raise you a wall street journal http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323744604578474983310370360

Fast and Furious was a lie? Business week would disagree with you and huffpo http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-21/fast-and-furious-scandal-returns-to-haunt-obama

I could go on but its not worth my time

Re:beacon of freedom

[HornWumpus]

The fed will _never_ sell it's bond holdings.

1. The fed will _never_ allow a federal bond auction to not be fully subscribed at a rate below real inflation.
2. The SS trust fund has a metric ass-load of bonds and few suckers to buy them.
3. The Bonds are the feds 'reserves'. See also fractional reserve banking. (Fed Bond Holdings x Money multiplier) is the real money supply growth in this ring of the circus.
4. The whole fucking money printing is part of an economic war intended to get the god damn Chinese to remove their currency peg. These economic wars always end spectacularly badly for both sides.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, the media spent loads of fucking time on the IRS targetting bullshit, and no fucking time whatever on the real truth, which was that there was no particularly partisan bias to the investigation, and for every "conservative" buzzword search, there were "liberal" ones as well.

Get a clue that doesn't come from the lying shithead Darrel Issa.

Re: beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

If there is no meaningful inflation in the monetary system, the economy drives to a halt.

This is demonstrably untrue. Look at inflation charts through time, and you will see there are clear periods when the US money supply was deflating, but the economy was growing.

This is why gold is such a failure as a currency.

It didn't fail as a currency. In the US, the government confiscated all the gold in the country because it couldn't pay its debts. Gold (and silver) worked fine as a currency for centuries before that. (Note: I don't favor a return to the gold standard, I think there are better options, but saying 'gold is a failure' is ridiculous. If you want to see failure, look at the Zimbabwean Dollar (note the logarithmic scale there).).

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Romney never ran any of the businesses he owned, stop buying into the false narrative, the reality is that Romney was a financier, not even a manager, let alone an actual leader.

The only thing he made was money...for himself, and any actual productivity was incidental.

Re:beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

Except that's an older article that was parroting RWEC stories. I counter with this July article from USAToday: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/12/irs-occupy-groups/2511541/ [usatoday.com]

It's not clear you are anything but a blind follower of partisanship, but if you really investigated, you would have come to this official report by the department of the treasury. There was bad stuff going on in the IRS.

Re:beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

The treasury disagrees.
We know that it wasn't just "management practicing CYA" because of later testimony revealing that the applications matching keywords were required to be sent to the main IRS headquarters, where they were delayed.

It's a story that has been unveiled (is still being unveiled?) in multiple layers, so it's easy to get 'story fatigue' and stop paying attention to it after a while.

Re:beacon of freedom

[TapeCutter]

Nothing happens about the list because no laws were broken. What you have is a list of government policies you personally disagree with. No matter who you vote for there will always be government policies that you find distasteful. Democratic nations do not throw political opponents in jail for enacting such policy, they simply vote them out of office and start bitching about the new guy.

Haven't RTFA, but if he did break a specific law then all that needs to happen is someone (say a political opponent) makes a formal complaint to the police. However making a false police report for political gain can also land a politician in jail, whereas twisting a random incident into a front page scandal is what their shills are paid to do.

Disclaimer: Non-American, never heard of Christie, I could not point to NJ on a map without some searching. AFAIC a random Slashdot article does not prove his guilt or innocence.

Re:beacon of freedom

[TapeCutter]

When the government becomes a corporation it's called fascism. The government's (economic) job is to create the rules of trade (ie: "The market") in a way that spreads the benefits of said trade to society as a whole, ideally everyone is "Free" to use the "Market". Having said that, international "cap and trade" is the only "free market" answer to the tragedy of the commons.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Medicare's policy is indeed pay first, check second.

This is due to lobbying by private providers who don't want Medicare being dilatory, to the point of not wanting Medicare to do any diligence.

Why do you attribute this failure to government, and not to the persons who lobbied for it?

Re:beacon of freedom

[superwiz]

I said they have been punished to some degree. It's not over. But cutting someone out of their profession... that's not a non-punishment. But c'mon. No one was even fired for Fast and Furious or for botching protecting US embassy from a foreseeable attack which killed an ambassador. Actual people died because of Obama's scandals and no one was even fired.

Re:beacon of freedom

[dbIII]

I'm willing to bet that you've had "real jobs" where you didn't have executive authority over anything.

Re:beacon of freedom

[dbIII]

Your posting history seems to be toeing the party line far too closely for that to be correct.
Such blatant political tribalism bullshit is an utter waste of space here. I suppose the article was bait for such a thing but we can do better than mindless "go team" and "looosers!" cheers.
Another funny thing is you guys will still be going on about Solyndra long after Chinese companies kickstarted with their government's money own the global solar market.

Re: beacon of freedom

[dbIII]

The Zimbabwean Dollar is all about not trusting the people that backed it. It's more a symptom of the failure of the government there at the time than anything else. It's also a good example of how you can't force a currency to have a monopoly - if people don't like it they will use something else, just like they do there today.

Re:beacon of freedom

[dbIII]

But by the time the next election comes around, voters will have forgotten even this.

They may forget about their balls being squeezed in airports, but this is about cars!

Re: beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

- if people don't like it they will use something else, just like they do there today.

Do they? What do they use?

Re:beacon of freedom

[Joe U]

Well, yeah, the federal government can't go bankrupt, it can just print more money and tax more. What it can do, however, is wreck the economy, and that's what it has been busy doing for a decade.

So, what you're basically saying is that you do not understand macroeconomics.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Cyberax]

Let's see:

1) There's no problem with Fed. It does exactly what it should do, well within its mandate.
2) Solyndra funding was done through official channels and there is no evidence of kickbacks or anything similar. Yes, it had failed, but that happens.
3) What exactly is wrong with PPACA?

So at least a half of items on your list are crimes only in your mind.

Re:beacon of freedom

[ClickOnThis]

The problem I have with cap and trade is the trade part. I don't necessarily agree with the level of the caps, but caps when enforced do what they ought. The trading part though is pure corruption, and guarantees that the caps will never be met.

By allowing the market to place a value on the caps, and to trade them, you encourage companies to try to find ways to come under the caps. There are only so many caps, so trading them is a zero-sum-game. I don't see how that is "pure corruption."

Re:beacon of freedom

[lophophore]

Are you twelve?

Government programs are **never** more efficient than private counterparts. The US Government is so full of graft and waste it is utterly infuriating to anybody who has any idea of what is going on. There is **no** accountability. This is not tied to any administration, this has been happening for years, through many administrations. At least for most private enterprises, there is somebody who wants to see a return on their investment.

Medicare is going to run out of money, most likely before you are eligible. Social Security, too. I hope you were not counting on either of those, because our inefficient, wasteful, and corrupt government has been blowing those trust funds like a cokehead in Vegas.

You need to step back from the bong and take a look at what is going on.

Re:beacon of freedom

[readin]

I think using an entire branch of government, and one of the most feared branches at that (the IRS), is a bit more serious than a burglary (even if the burglary is blue-collar while the abuse of power is white-collar).

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

Why do you attribute this failure to government, and not to the persons who lobbied for it?

Because it is a failure of the government not of the lobbyist. And second, because there are always lobbyists. A strategy which always fails to some degree doesn't strike me as a good starting point.

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

Yawn, you think the federal government is incompetent, that's tiresome, but who is suggesting the federal factory of Solar Panel production?

Here.

What I find tiresome is when I quote the very passage that fully explains whatever concern you have and yet you still complain.

These loans are more the federal government paying somebody to make solar panels for them, which would hardly be unreasonable given their needs

The federal government doesn't have "needs" in this area. Neither does anyone else.

somebody decided to stop the purchases because they could get them cheaper from China.

Yep. It never fails to amaze me how much drama there is over simple market concepts that people just don't seem to get. If your product is more expensive and as in the case of solar panels or labor, it doesn't have a compelling advantage to justify that premium, then almost everyone, not just the "financial people" buys the cheaper product.

Actually, I think I'll go with the federal factory of Solar Panel Production, if it's run like the TVA, it'll actually DO ITS FUCKING JOB. And let's NOT let a company like Enron anywhere near it.

The job of solar panel production is to transfer money from tax payers to businesses which pay the right kickbacks to the right people? Who knew?

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

I suspect the previous poster was speaking of carbon sinks which could earn carbon emission credits. In theory, they would be a way to incentivize the long term storing of carbon. But currently, they're easy to game into exaggerating their carbon sink potential.

Re:beacon of freedom

[khallow]

With proper plausible deniability, lack of records, and flexible interpretation of rhetorical demands ("Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"), there should be no evidence that a US president or other leader did anything wrong. And as you note, somehow the cuprits never got punished for this.

Re: beacon of freedom

[dbIII]

US dollars.
Basicly the black market expanded to the entire economy and eventually everyone ignored the Zimbabwe dollar.

That sort of thing happened in Eastern Europe a while ago too.

Re:beacon of freedom

[DexterIsADog]

Um, huh? The "Plumbers" break-in of Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office by Liddy, Hunt, and CIA officers was... "blue-collar"? Those senior administration officials were just lunch pail lunks, timeclock punching blue collar blokes? What in the world are you smoking?

But, regardless... my goodness, using the IRS as a political weapon *would* be serious. If the President had done that.

He didn't. Serious, non teabag-wearing people generally agree about that.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Uberbah]

The treasury disagrees.

Factually irrelevant. Both liberal and conservative groups were scrutinized, and the only group to be denied tax-exempt status was a liberal one.

Deal.

Re:beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

I'm not sure I've ever met such a partisan blind fool as you, and I've met a lot of them.

Fact: conservative groups were singled out for special scrutiny and delays, beyond what the liberal groups got. Either accept reality or keep living in your blind world.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Uberbah]

So you use a bunch of left-wing websites to "debunk" the news?

So you base your arguments on partisan tribalism rather than who is right or wrong, based on the facts?

Re:beacon of freedom

[Uberbah]

Fact: conservative groups were singled out for special scrutiny and delays, beyond what the liberal groups got.

Which part of: both liberal and conservative groups were scrutinized, and the only group to actually be denied tax-exempt status was a liberal group did your partisan brain not understand?

Either accept reality or keep living in your blind world.

I find your lack of self-awareness disturbing.

Re:beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

Which part of: both liberal and conservative groups were scrutinized,

Everything sent to the IRS is scrutinized to some degree, even your taxes. That's not the issue. You are smart enough, your problem here is that you aren't aware of the basic facts of the case, which are:

Lois Lerner's (head of CIA who was appointed by Obama) personal assistant directed the Tea Party applications, which had been cleared by lower levels in the IRS, be sent to William Wilkins (who was also appointed by Obama) where they were delayed for years. This was not a 'normal' thing to do. All the applications that were requested and delayed this way were conservative, not liberal. This is according to official testimony before congress by Elizabeth Hofacre, Michael Seto, and Carter Hull.

Now that you've been made aware of the facts, the question is whether you'll accept them or continue to deny.

Re:beacon of freedom

[Uberbah]

The question is why you're bringing up delusional Alex Jones-type conspiracy bulllllshit after being made aware of the two pertinent facts in the case. Kinda like the brain dead morons who kept on blaming Clinton for Waco and Ruby Ridge right after you've told them the latter happened before Clinton was even elected president.

Re:beacon of freedom

[phantomfive]

So, wait, you're saying it's ok with you if the president attempts to stifle groups that oppose him, as long as he's not successful? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.

Alternate reason for closing the bridge

[plasticquart]

... a stunt meant to punish the mayor of an affected town for opposing his reelection.

It is now suspected that this might not be the motivation for the bridge closure.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maddow-nj-bridge-scandal-was-political-revenge-but-maybe-not-for-the-reason-you-think%E2%80%A6/

Re:Alternate reason for closing the bridge

[Anonymous Coward]

From your link:

In 2010, Christie took the unprecedented step of refusing to reappoint a New Jersey Supreme Court justice for another term, which set off the New Jersey Democrats, who got back at Christie by shooting down all the other Supreme Court justice nominees he put forward.

So when a Republican member of the New Jersey Supreme Court came up for reappointment last year, NJ Senate Democrats promised to make it a brutal fight, so Christie decided to stop the reappointment. He was furious at Senate Democrats, and held a press conference getting really angry with them.

That press conference, expressing much anger with Senate Democrats, was held on August 12, 2013, a day before the Bridgegate e-mail was sent. And Fort Lee, the town that got backed up, is part of the legislative district represented by Loretta Weinberg, the leader of the Senate Democrats.

Random satire

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm struggling to understand how this qualifies as "News For Nerds" or "Stuff That Matters".

Re:Random satire

[amiga3D]

Maybe you aren't nerdy enough.

Re:Random satire

[cffrost]

I'm struggling to understand how this qualifies as "News For Nerds" or "Stuff That Matters".

I believe it was meant to foster a discussion about NSA's post-Snowden propaganda campaign, but we don't seem to be having that discussion, as far as I've read.

Re:Random satire

[cffrost]

Snowden, NSA, and Bitcoin.

are you serious?

[lemur3]

this 'article' is a load of cynical sarcastic crap.

and im a cynical sarcastic crap myself... i dont get it.. what exactly is the point of this?

Re:are you serious?

[phayes]

It's more of the typical muckraising from Timothy

This, my fake friends, is called the Smoking Gun

[Anonymous Coward]

And it will play out like the soap opera is has become .. slow, drawn out, and only enjoyable when stoned!

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[amiga3D]

Too late for all that. Christie allready apologized at length and fired the staffer involved. I don't get it anyway. How was closing lanes to a bridge going to hurt the mayor of Fort Lee? It inconvenienced a lot of the people in the area but they overwhelmingly voted for Christie anyway. The whole thing sounds idiotic. Is he hiring 7th graders for his staff or something? I would have broken his legs or something if I was angry with him. A traffic jam? Really?

Re:Not news for nerds

[rmdingler]

I look forward to the posting of mainstream stories on the green line site (my son's colloquialism).

Often they arrive after being picked apart by the news media, but there are still moments of insight in this forum that I can't find anywhere else.

All that,AND they talk about computers here.

there's a better NSA link here:

[circletimessquare]

how did those emails and texts get to the media?

i'm not saying the NSA did it. but how easy would it have been for it to do so?

i'm not even saying the NSA would be pursing this as policy. the NSA is not an iron machine, it's composed of people. there's greed and corruption everywhere. for every virtuous edward snowden, there's another guy like edward snowden who knows a political operative and would do what snowden did, but for the motivation of cash instead. sell this kind of info for six or seven figures

that's how dangerous the NSA is to democracy. infiltrate the NSA, abuse its powers as an employee, destroy the legitimacy of our government with the leaks and manipulations you are now capable of

we live in a world where the NSA can decide presidential elections, or any elections. right now. everyone has dirt on them. focus on the candidates you want to weed out, get dirt like this bridge fiasco on them, leak it to the media, and voila: you decide elections

this is why the NSA has to be curtailed. it is incompatible with democracy. the NSA will destroy this country, make everyone believe their government is fake

the NSA must be made transparent, congressional oversight bolted on, its scope of powers severely reduced, etc. secret courts? what the fuck? no! not acceptable

Re:there's a better NSA link here:

[ComputersKai]

this is why the NSA has to be curtailed. it is incompatible with democracy. the NSA will destroy this country, make everyone believe their government is fake

The FBI once actually tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into committing suicide. Instead of getting any sort of punishment, the head at the time of the FBI, Hoover, ended up getting a building named after him. Is this the type of country we learn about in our grade school years?

It wasn't to punish someone who wouldn't endorse

[_KiTA_]

It wasn't to punish someone who wouldn't endorse him. That's just a flashpoint scandal, nothing big. I half suspect it to be one that's being sent out intentionally to exhaust the media's attention before the real scandal starts getting out.

Basically he screwed over some Democratic Judge, and the Dems in his area announced they would be very critical of a Republican Judge that was coming up for reconfirmation in retaliation, so he pulled the same screwjob on that Republican Judge to prevent her from being questioned by the Dems. The next day he pulled the bridgegate crap in the home district of the head Democrat.

Rachel Maddow has done all the work and has an interview with said head Dem.

Or you could turn to Fox News, where somehow it was Obama's fault because Benghazi.

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[jovius]

It's always useful to deny everything first. Later when you apologize that's the image the public will remember.

For politicians denying everything is the first step. If one assumes guilt first one surely must have something hidden... As per drama the honesty only comes after a struggle and self-realization. That's more natural to sympathize with.

this had nothing to do with the endorsement.

[nimbius]

the mayor of Fort Lee has nothing to do with this:

Recently Christie had unloaded on Democrats in a particularly angry press conference concerning the renomination battle of a N.J. Supreme Court judge, a battle that had been several years in the making. The woman who headed the state Senate committee causing embarrassment for Christie at the time was N.J. state Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg (D), who happens to represent Fort Lee.

That media is really on top of things

[cold fjord]

There's Already 17 Times More Coverage on Christie Scandal Than in Last Six Months of IRS (scandal)

Chris Christie's bridge scandal: A blessing in disguise?

Re:That media is really on top of things

[readin]

Don't be so hard on the media. It took them a year to break the IRS scandal news, and then they forgot about it once the President had some up with a barely plausible denial. It only took them 5 months to catch on to the bridge thing, and you can be they'll be talking about it until Christie has a serious conservative opponent.

So based on those two data points we have a press that is getting faster at recognizing scandals and is focusing on them longer. That's good, right?

Re:That media is really on top of things

[hubie]

You probably need to factor in the fact that it is a local story in the NYC market. In my opinion, anything that happens in the NYC market gets amplified much more than other stories based on the fact that NYC is the center of media coverage.

Re:That media is really on top of things

[cold fjord]

You will notice that my post specifically refers to the bridge scandal. The "NSA playbook" isn't really relevant to his situation, its a farce.
Think of it as implied statement that the article is a troll (the purpose of which is to tarnish Governor Christie), and that the commenting system allows us to make relevant comments on real issues. Does the truth of a matter get tired and stale? I'm certain it at least becomes inconvenient.

Re:That media is really on top of things

[Enry]

Well and the fact that it wasn't just conservative/tea party groups that were targeted - plenty of liberal groups were as well. So it's unlikely this was done because of retribution or because of political ideology.

Re:That media is really on top of things

[DexterIsADog]

You probably need to factor in the fact that it is a local story in the NYC market. In my opinion, anything that happens in the NYC market gets amplified much more than other stories based on the fact that NYC is the center of media coverage.

To be fair, it's not just the media concentration. New York is the largest, most important city in the nation.

Re:That media is really on top of things

[readin]

I know what your president told you. But http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/14/irs-tea-party-progressive-groups/2158831/

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[Anonymous Coward]

Refuse to let your aides testify, and when they're forced to, have them lie and/or plead the fifth.

That was perfected by the Bush/Cheney administration, with their handling of everything from throwing Libby under the bus to shield Cheney from the Plame disclosures to having Alberto Gonzales forget everything he ever knew when testifying about why Democratic judges were fired. These were actual scandals and not bullshit fake ones like the ones on your other list.

There's no honest person who can be outraged at Christie's politically motivated law breaking, and content with the last 5 years of the same

This is how I know you are complete politically motivated fucktard; limiting yourself to the last 5 years which just so happens to cover Obama. I suppose you were absolutely happy with the previous administration? I can't even list all the outrageous shit that administration generated, starting with the greatest foreign policy and humanitarian disaster in the history of the world: the Iraq War. You want to talk about justice? About somebody from the DOE going to jail for Solyndra? WTF, that was actually a good move - the bankruptcy was due to China manipulating the market, not something that could be forseen. You probably didn't know that since you are clearly a retard. Get back to me when Bush/Cheney are being tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity and then we'll talk about who's going to jail for quantitative easing at the Fed.

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[ebno-10db]

felrom, do you get paid for this? That's your second partisan shill post. There's an article about something corrupt that a Republican did, and immediately there are (several) screeds about Obama. It's like the China shills that pop up every time there's an article critical of China.

There's no honest person who can be outraged at Christie's politically motivated law breaking, and content with the last 5 years of the same, time and again, from the president.

Translation: you're outraged that there would be an article about a corrupt act by a Republican, that isn't immediately "balanced" by a rant in the same article about unrelated corruption amongst Democrats.

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[ebno-10db]

Is he hiring 7th graders for his staff or something?

Take that back! I have a son in the 7th grade, and I assure you that most 7th graders are more mature than politicians.

I would have broken his legs or something

So you do understand NJ.

Re:Not news for nerds

[cold fjord]

Maybe it's a bug, but I see this post moderated as "-1, Insightful" at the moment. Although it's probably unintentional, there is a certain elegance to that. The polemic and invective aren't completely without insight.

If you want to know a child, look at his friends..

[Proudrooster]

So by looking a Chris Christie's friends what can we determine from him? All of his friends seem to be petty, vindictive, bullies. Then when things go bad, it is every man for themselves which shows a lack of loyalty since everyone except Christie has had to resign. It won't be long until one of his friends turns on him, but then it will be an all out character assassination against that old friend.

This little stunt happened on the first day of school, messing with kids and communities on a stressful first day, the people of NY & NJ, interstate commerce, and possible security and emergency services.

Some of the friends are going to need a timeout, where big people go for timeout. A little jail time.

Re:Not news for nerds

[Proudrooster]

This post is clearly flame-bait and troll-bait, just roll with it! The NSA analogy was just thrown in to make it seem quasi legit.

Re:Not news for nerds

[Capt.Albatross]

This should be posted on a political forum. Maybe slashdot could create a second site for stories like this.

I think you have misunderstood the target of the referenced article. It is not actually about New Jersey politics, it is about the weakness of the NSA's justifications for its recently-revealed actions. Those actions seem to have attracted a lot of interest on slashdot.

Re:What's more amusing here...

[argStyopa]

Not to mention, of course, the most implausible tissue of rationales for it to appear HERE on a tech-news site.

"Let's see, we can cover it because we could suppose that the governor, if he actually had anything to do with it, could use the same tactics to defend himself that the NSA is using to defend themselves for doing the things the president ordered them to do!"

It's like supposing the motivations of a strawman of a strawman of a strawman who happens to use computers. Sheesh.

Re:What's more amusing here...

[nedlohs]

Because Christie is hilarious and thus any excuse to show him is taken.

Actaully Fox News is.

[Anonymous Coward]

When Rupert Murdoch and couple of other billionaires started their own network in the 1980s and Fox News in the 1990s, they intentionally wanted the network to be on the right side of the political spectrum because they felt that part of the US market was being under served by other news outlets. After all, Regan was big then, the DEmocrats still had a strangle hold on Congress and the Conservatives had non outlet that catered to them.

Flash forward 25 years and the country as a whole has moved more to the right. So, hows does Fox News differentiate itself now?

By being so wacky right wing that they have become a parody of themselves. Colbert is making a real nice living by just accentuating some of the rhetoric - not adding too much to it, BTW.

That's how ridiculous they have become.

When I see commentators and anchors talk out of their ass; like blaming the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 on the financial meltdown; which it turns out it had nothing - zero - contribution to the financial meltdown.

Fox News narrative is now scaring old white people. My doctors office has it on (all those old white people live it) and the BS that comes out of those people's mouths makes me wonder how these people can keep a straight face - actually I can - they millions of dollars a year to read the BS the Fox writers come up with.

Also, notice how all the "anchors" are pretty MILFs with short skirts and hooker/stripper heels?

All of the women on Fox News look like strippers.

Infotainment, baby! with shitty half truths and lies.

And parroting what they see on that shitty lying network. I've actually talked to people who were convinced that we the US will become just like Greece and they put their life savings into Gold - when it was pushing $2,000 an ounce (it since has fallen 40%). Guess where they got that idea from?

Re:Actaully Fox News is.

[Voyager529]

Also, notice how all the "anchors" are pretty MILFs with short skirts and hooker/stripper heels?
All of the women on Fox News look like strippers.

I sense that the viewership of Fox News by the Slashdot demographic is headed for an increase.

Re:Actaully Fox News is.

[Uberbah]

If you cannot admit that MSNBC does the EXACT same thing

Cuz they....don't? Sure, they're in the tank for Obama 21 hours a day, but since Obama is just as right wing as Bush, that's a distinction without much of a difference. But MSNBC doesn't lie through their teeth all day long, all day strong.

Christie missed a HUGE opportunity

[roman_mir]

Christie could have turned THIS event into a presidential run win, but he is too much of an establishment to do it.

He could have come out and said: I will find the responsible, fire them and initiate a criminal case against them and then I will step down. This was done on my watch, I will TAKE responsibility.

I think it was a giant opportunity for him to be seen as super responsible rather than corrupt, but hey, he is a Jersey boy, he don't go that way.

Re:Christie missed a HUGE opportunity

[Overzeetop]

My wife likes him because he didn't toe the party line when he needed help after Sandy.

I think he's a fucking hypocrite because he basically said Obama as a commie faggot until he, unexpectedly, needed more help than he could get from his own state. Then he became a sudden convert to the shared-risk model of disaster response which the Democrats seem to favor. He's lucky it happened at the end of the first term, 'cause three months later and I would have told him to suck it and go ask his Republican governor friends to open up their coffers because people who don't want to pay in don't get to hold their hands out when their luck runs dry.

Re:Christie missed a HUGE opportunity

[nitehawk214]

Christie could have turned THIS event into a presidential run win, but he is too much of an establishment to do it.

He could have come out and said: I will find the responsible, fire them and initiate a criminal case against them and then I will step down. This was done on my watch, I will TAKE responsibility.

I think it was a giant opportunity for him to be seen as super responsible rather than corrupt, but hey, he is a Jersey boy, he don't go that way.

Fat chance of that. If a criminal case comes out against Kelly, she will leak to the press that Christie was behind the whole thing. Regardless if it is true, it will torpedo any chance of a presidential nomination. (assuming there is still a chance)

Re:Christie missed a HUGE opportunity

[roman_mir]

The answer is obvious, I don't understand why it escapes you.
Money. Millions of dollars. That's how you buy silence and it's a very cheap way to get ahead in elections that cost hundreds of millions.

Re:Christie missed a HUGE opportunity

[fascismforthepeople]

Money. Millions of dollars. That's how you buy silence and it's a very cheap way to get ahead in elections that cost hundreds of millions.

because, of-course, politicians should not only not be prohibited from buying and selling influence, power, and votes they should actually be encouraged to do so. if they are not allowed to do this, then the little people can get in the way and prevent the powerful from pulling the levers and moving this country in the direction that your god wants it to go. this is just a part of your plan to bring more power for the powerful and fascism for the people.

Wish people wouldn't post . . .

[Skeptical1]

instructions for how to do these things.

Re:Not news for nerds

[SpankiMonki]

I think this happens when a post is up-modded "Insightful" (or other positive mod), then has successive "Overrated" downmods. The "Overrated" and "Underrated" mods do not appear to change the descriptor like a "Troll" or "Flamebait" downmod. Not sure about this though.

Re:Not news for nerds

[cffrost]

Maybe it's a bug, but I see this post moderated as "-1, Insightful" at the moment.

It's not a bug; mozumder's starting score is -1, which is caused by having poor "karma," which is caused by being down-modded more than up-modded.

Re:Not news for nerds

[cold fjord]

Ah, good catch.

Not "working well"

[jodido]

The NSA's "defense" is not "working well." Except maybe with Democrats and Republicans who wish Snowden never existed. For a lot of the rest of the population NSA excuses are making things worse for them, not better.

Re:Not "working well"

[SpankiMonki]

OMG! An actual honest to goodness post that's ON TOPIC! I wish I had a mod point.

why does he need to defend himself?

[stenvar]

This sort of thing is what politicians do every day. There is essentially no legal way to hold the guy responsible.

The only people who can punish Christie are voters. Hopefully they will do just that, although the fact that both Bush and Obama got reelected doesn't make me very confident that voters care about abuse of power.

Re:Not news for nerds

[SpankiMonki]

Are you sure? I thought that while poor karma can give a negative starting score, it doesn't apply an "Insightful" (or any other tag) to the initial post. In other words, such posts would be labeled "Score: -1" as opposed to "Score: -1, Insightful". I thought only a "Insightful" mod by another user caused that label to be attached to a post.

American's vs the world

[BringsApples]

So if I have this right (regardless what caused these assholes to close the bridge), then if terrorists hate the American government, they take it out on The People of America (Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11, Boston Marathon, etc...), and now if the American government hates the American government, they take it out on The People of America, too. Ouch, my country hurts!

Re:American's vs the world

[anmre]

Good point.

I was once stopped in 2005 by a police officer on the NY side of the bridge for taking pictures on the bridge (one of my passengers was taking pictures).

Presumably, the police think that taking pictures == terrorism.

If you ask me, police enactment of political retribution against an entire city == terrorism.

Re:American's vs the world

[BringsApples]

Apathy * power = terrorism

Christie in 2016 - how will this play out.

[germansausage]

As a non-USA-citizen, I don't have any stake in the outcome, but I'm really curious to see how this affects Christie's run for the White House. Is this a big enough problem to derail his carefully crafted "Pragmatic, bi-partisan, get stuff done" persona, or will it blow over?

My personal take, FWIW, is that he either knew and is lying, or he didn't and is a schmuck because his whole team leadership lied to him for months and he didn't catch on. If I was a voter I would be asking myself, "What if this guy is elected president, and then one day gets mad at me?"

Re:Christie in 2016 - how will this play out.

[Bananenrepublik]

He apparently never asked for the results of the traffic study. Given that his former job was as a prosecutor, he's been doing a really bad job investigating.

Re:Christie in 2016 - how will this play out.

[ganjadude]

christe is not really supported all that much by the people who got him elected. He was liked for being anti establishment but when sandy hit he became best friends with obama so the base that voted for him probably would not vote for him in 2016 over the likes of rand paul as one example of someone I believe will be running

wrong premise

[superwiz]

Christie has already dealt with the scandal. He fired everyone responsible, apologized to the victims and made sure that anyone involved in the bad decision making will not be involved in further decision making. The premise of summary is that Christie should try to downplay the impact of the harm done by the closure. But he didn't do that. He accepted the responsibility (so no attempt to downplay the impact) and dealt with the issue promptly.

Re:wrong premise

[HornWumpus]

Cristie learned from Clinton.

The slow admission.

Now we wait for the inevitable evidence of Cristie's direct involvement. Then he admits to another slice.

It won't work for Christie, it only worked for Bill because the press was blowing him on a daily basis.

Of course this is part of the larger picture of both parties sniping at the others centrists. So they have a better candidate to run against.

Re:wrong premise

[superwiz]

No, he already released every piece of paper related to it. Clinton circled the wagons -- he lawyered up and stuff (if you remember one of the stories from the 90s was that the Democratic Party was almost forced into bankruptcy because of the legal fees). Christie did the opposite of the slow admission. He did a full mea culpa cut out of the food chain anyone who had anything to do with it.

Re:wrong premise

[superwiz]

Obama keeps all the failures under him employed because he knows full well that if he starts sinking them, then some will squeak and admit that Obama himself was involved. Christie cut everyone involved out of the food chain precisely because he knows he had nothing to do with it.

It's easier: he doesn't like New York

[Bananenrepublik]

An interesting theory, but I think it goes to prove once more that Christie doesn't like the fact that people commute to New York for work. Remember when he shut down a financed infrastructure project that would have helped the economy immensely and would have reduced road traffic -- well, until he shut it down based on fake reasons and outright lies? I'm talking about the second railway tunnel crossing the Hudson, for those to ADS to remember.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/nyregion/report-disputes-christies-reason-for-halting-tunnel-project-in-2010.html

Re:It's easier: he doesn't like New York

[russotto]

The "outright lies" being that there'd be huge cost overruns which NJ would be responsible for. Said "lies" being considered "lies" because the Office of Management and Budget swore up and down there woudn't be such overruns... yeah, pull the other one, it's got bells on. The ARC tunnel was destined to go way over schedule and way over budget... like every other major government project.

Christie certainly wanted the Fort Lee mayor published for not supporting him; that's just the way machine politics works (which is why Christie and Obama get along; they understand each other). I find it hard to believe he'd be stupid enough to do it by messing with the GWB, though. Aside from hurting a lot more than Fort Lee, messing with interstate transportation invites Federal scrutiny, as former US Attorney Christie would know.

Plausible deniability is part of the game too, so Christie probably let it be known the mayor was to be punished, and his staff cooked up a plan to do it without giving him the details.

Re:What's more amusing here...

[bill_mcgonigle]

Does it really matter if it was planned or spontaneous?

Yeah, because a man died (in an ambulance) because of it. Our society cares whether a death is accidental or negligent.

Re:What's more amusing here...

[Ksevio]

Well considering media is still covering Republicans bringing up Bengazi even though they don't even know what they're trying to get from it, I guess it'll be a couple years

Bacon of freedom

[Ultimate Heretic]

Being Chris Christie, I read this as indicated...

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[phantomfive]

I don't get it anyway. How was closing lanes to a bridge going to hurt the mayor of Fort Lee?

The mayor was definitely annoyed, he was personally frantic, trying to get someone to open the lanes.

I don't understand it either (frankly, I don't understand the thought processes of anyone involved in the email exchanges, and I'm beginning to think I don't understand the thought processes of anyone in New Jersey).

meh

[cascadingstylesheet]

The Democrats can have Christie for all I care ... they are his true kindred.

But it is funny to see all the Two Minutes Hate starting already.

Re:What's more amusing here...

[cffrost]

Let's compare how much media time this gets [with that].

If you're talking about coverage via the "big six" US corporate news media, coverage depends partially on the political and economic interests of the parent corporation, and partially on the projected profitability of the coverage. The former could be determined somewhat by the legal bribes a corporation has given to political candidates. I'm not interested, as I don't share interests with any of those corporations. Thus, I don't get any of my news from them, instead preferring mostly foreign outfits with a smaller stake in determining what is fit for someone in the US to read about.

[...] American state dept official being left out to be lynched by a planned assault on our consulate when help was available? Does it really matter if it was planned or spontaneous?

I don't know, but maybe if the US hadn't participated in overthrowing Libya's government, there would be a police department there to investigate murder cases. Other than "many dead, many injured during protests/riots/attacks coinciding with anniversary of 9/11 attack on US," I remember and care little about those small uprisings through 2011-2012, except for my continual belief that the US should quit meddling in the affairs of sovereign states in which a US presence is unwanted by the majority of the populace.

There are other misdeeds, crimes, and atrocities being committed by the Obama administration that I'm far more concerned with right now, like the indiscriminate mass execution of civilians abroad via remote control (Obama: "I'm getting very good at killing people."); the mass surveillance of myself, fellow citizens, and fellow innocents across the globe; the ongoing suspension of habeus corpus under the NDAA 2012; banksters walking free, while incentivized to crash the economy for fun & profit again, as spending for assistance for this nation's most-in-need is cut; the "most transparent administration in US history" waging a war to punish/silence whistle-blowers throughout the federal government and military; and so on and so forth.

Are you concerned about any of those things? Do you consider any of them more important than the attack that occurred in 2012?

When I read about something bad that's happened, my foremost concerns are: "In what way is this event affecting the lives of vulnerable civilians now, and in what ways may this event affect the course of future events that may cause them and others harm in the future?" When you read about something bad that's happened, be it the passing of bad legislation or some natural or intentional harm affecting many people, what are your foremost concerns?

Re:Not news for nerds

[cffrost]

Are you sure? I thought that while poor karma can give a negative starting score, it doesn't apply an "Insightful" (or any other tag) to the initial post. In other words, such posts would be labeled "Score: -1" as opposed to "Score: -1, Insightful". I thought only a "Insightful" mod by another user caused that label to be attached to a post.

I agree, but cold fjord didn't say he saw the post in its initial state. It displayed the same way for me, in a moderated/modified state.

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[Dachannien]

Bill Clinton's staffers went around prying the W keys off the keyboards in the White House before George W. Bush moved in (among other things), but we don't automatically accuse Clinton himself of being petty and moronic because of that.

Re:NSA != Chris Christie. NSA == Port Authority

[HornWumpus]

I don't believe the NSA is as corrupt as the Port Authority. If only because the Port Authority has been completely corrupt for much longer then the NSA has existed.

I'm not sure which one I'd rather have wanting me dead. You'd be fucked in any case. Couldn't run far enough or hide well enough.

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[argStyopa]

So it's fair to analyze someone by looking at their friends?

Frank Davis
Bill Ayers
Tony Rezko

Ring any bells?

Re:It wasn't to punish someone who wouldn't endors

[ganjadude]

how can you in good faith slam fox news while at the same time use racheal maddow as an example of good investigative journalism? Your bias is showing

*Yawn*

[msobkow]

And outside of the US, we call both Repooplicans and Democraps "Americans" and have a good laugh at your perpetual stream of made-in-the-media "scandals".

Re:*Yawn*

[msobkow]

Not to worry, though. We have our own media trying to spin minor events as "major scandals" to sell advertising, too.

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[hey!]

I use a different personal metaphor. The electorate of NJ is in an abusive relationship. Christie's crow-eating press conference made my skin crawl.

Many above the law

[dbIII]

It's been going on for a long time. Less than a year after Hezbolla blew up more than one hundred US Marines they were sold a lot of US made weapons by Oliver North. That great "patriot" who was photographed wrapped up in a flag when running for office didn't do any jail time and remains a proud member of the Republican party.
That set a very bad example. There are people above the law. King John of England (of Robin Hood fame if the name doesn't register) would love what the USA has become.

Re:When did this become the News for Hacks site?

[lophophore]

This is great. /. moderation at it's finest. Modded "Overrated" with a score of 1.

Seriously?

Re:No need to use the NSA's playbook...

[litehacksaur111]

They told the police to tell the commuters that the mayor had ordered the lanes closed.

Oh, he's done.

[zippthorne]

He won't be president in 2016 (or 2017..). You can get away with something like this as an incumbent and get re-elected, but it won't work for a nominee.

If he is the republican nominee, he won't win the general. He wasn't going to win the general anyway - Republicans outside of New Jersey won't turn out for him and Democrats don't have a reason to vote for him, either, since they could just vote for an actual Democrat.

Good reasons for that

[dbIII]

Because it impacted more people and is much bigger news.
Also there's juicy elements such as one of the perpetrators turning up to watch the chaos.

It's the sort of stuff that sells papers.

Moving cones != closing the bridge

[JonBoy47]

The George Washington Bridge is 14 total lanes across two decks. It's the busiest bridge on earth. This would be a lot bigger deal had the bridge actually been closed. There are 31 toll lanes, spread across 3 toll plazas, leading up to the bridge. The main plaza for the upper deck of the bridge, which has 12 lanes, normally has 3 lanes dedicated (using traffic cones) to traffic from Fort Lee's surface streets. The Port Authority effected the traffic jam by moving the cones to reduce this to 1 lane.

Also, for those who may not be familiar with this link between the New Jersey Turnpike and the Trans-Manhattan Expressway, it is a traffic shit-show pretty much all the time, even when the Port Authority isn't TRYING to make it worse. And to think, people pay $13 to cross the damned thing (well, only $11 if they have EZPass).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal

Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

"1) The ATF didn't give guns to anyone. All they did was fuck up tracking guns...Did the ATF give guns to anyone? Nope, gun dealers sold them."

EXCELLENT, a non-Bushie who knows some details.... let me fill-in a few more though: [a] They did not even make a serious TRY to track the guns [b] They did not tell the Mexican government they were doing it (and thus could not get help from them when it went bad) [c] the gun dealers in question did not want to sell the guns, but were ordered to by the ATF! The gun dealers in question, properly spotted the "straw purchasers" and did not want to sell the guns (both because they feared for their licenses and also because they feared some of their friends who worked in the Border Patrol could end-up facing thugs with these guns) so they contacted the ATF. After the thing went down, the gun dealers themsevles were some of the "whislte blowers" who went to their members of congress. Without the dealers coming forward, Eric Holder and his people would have gotten away with this. [d] Intentionally or not (you may choose based on you politics since none of us is a mind reader) This drove-up concerns of a "gun grab" in the U.S. because the whole affair lined-up neatly in time with Hillary Clinton going into Mexico and giving a speech about the need to limit guns in the U.S. and how evil American gun dealers were selling guns to criminals in Mexico. To those of us who "cling to our guns", this is no coincindence.... it LOOKS like team Obama setup a massive wave of gun violence in Mexico using American guns as a political excuse for clamping down on the 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans. If you are on the left and like "gun control", you ought to be pissed that Obama's "Fast and Furious" combined with Hillary led to a massive ramp-up in gun and ammo sales and injected a dose of political adrenaline into the "gun rights" movement that will last for many years

"3) He's half right, Solyndra started the process to get the loan in 2007. "

Hang-on there, though.... Like many unremarkable/typical things, the Solyndra loab applications were slipped-onto the desk of the federal government when the time was "right" for the non-governmental actor and not timed to the political office holders and it was processed by the proper agencies according to proper procedures. This happened to be during the Bush admin, and the proper people in government properly assessed the application and concluded that the loan was a BAD IDEA for the taxpayer (the analysts stated that bankruptcy was inevitable, given their business model and the market, and even predicted when the bankruptcy would happen). The Bush admin (probably lower-level people.... Bush himself was not smart enough and was fixated on other things) killed the loan application. After Obama took office, Solyndra (whose big investors were big Obama donors) re-submitted the application (and just happened to make many visits to the White House) and the Department of Energy pushed it through in violation of both their internal regulations and Federal Law. Federal Law, you see, clearly required that in any such loan the taxpayer would be first to recover if the business went belly-up. Team Obama, however, signed a contract with the loan that put the investors ahead of the taxpayers in clear violation of that law. Solyndra went bankrupt within several months of the date predicted by the original government analysts. The congress has been unable to get anybody in the government to come-clean sbout who did this and with what authority. The current Atty Gen (Holder) is so corrupt (the most corrupt in US history) that he refuses to enforce any laws that would aid congressional investigations (he, himself is in violation of the law, and his oath, and (after lying under oath to congress) was found "in contempt of congress" which should have lead to his removal). Nixon would never have been driven out of office if HIS Department of Justice had refused to prosecute anybody in the administrati

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[Uberbah]

Ring any bells?

Not so much a bell as a dog whistle to attract fellow shit-for-brains trolls. It's not like there aren't a legion of real issues to ding Obama with (drones, spying, campaign lies, NDAA) without having to make up the same sort of asinine bullshit that you tried to pull on the last Democratic president (black helicopters, Vince Foster).

Get a life. Get a clue.

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[Uberbah]

Bill Clinton's staffers went around prying the W keys off the keyboards in the White House before George W. Bush moved in (among other things), but we don't automatically accuse Clinton himself of being petty and moronic because of that.

A well-known winger urban legend that only morans repeat, like Waco and Ruby Ridge being Clinton's fault. Made up so right wing trolls can accuse him of being petty and moronic and avoid any issues having to do with reality.

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[Dachannien]

A well-known winger urban legend that only morans repeat

That's kind of why I cited the GAO report which confirms that while the damage was substantially less than what was originally reported by some parts of the media, the thing about the W keys turned out to be true.

Re:If you want to know a child, look at his friend

[Uberbah]

That's kinda why I said it was an urban legend, as the story is absolutely false. Your own link says "allegations", and that's coming from Bob Barr. One of the Republicans obsessed with finding a reason, any reason at all, to impeach Clinton. And even he said it was much ado about nothing.