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British Spies To Be Allowed To Break Speed Limit
An anonymous reader writes "The Telegraph reports, 'Britain's spies are to be given a "licence to speed" for the first time, under changes to motoring laws. While James Bond would no doubt have scorned such niceties, officers in MI5 and MI6 are currently required to obey the rules of the road, even when national security is under threat. Now Robert Goodwill, the transport minister, intends to add the Security Service and the Secret Intelligence Service to the group of agencies with permission to break the speed limit.'"
... because we can be certain that intelligence agencies previously never broke the law.
If the Secret Intelligence Service tries to get away with speeding, they have to reveal who they are, then they aren't secret anymore. In fact anyone speeding might be revealing they're in the Secret Intelligence Service.
It compares the current list of public services that are allowed to speed (fire, police and ambulance) to the new list (Vehicles used to carry organs for transplant, bomb disposal units, mountain rescue teams and those engaged in “surveillance and covert operations”). But nowhere does it mention that they'll have a siren. If someone is driving really really fast where normally people aren't driving really really fast, and hits someone, killing one or more, I wonder how it'll play out on court.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
so now they can keep up with other traffic
Ok, so your average police officer is going to know and/or be able to find out that some specific vehicle belongs to an "intelligence" agency? What sort of "intelligence" are these agencies responsible for? Clearly they are becoming particularly dense if they have decided to get some kind of exemption. Such an exemption implies identification and trackability. What a pack of idiots!
What about construction zones? What about school zones?
This kind of thing is so utterly likely to get completely innocent people killed that I expect to see it being discontinued within a week of implementation.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I had a house-mate once who was a (non-UK) law enforcement officer, and he talked about "moving surveillance" (i.e. trailing suspects in a car.) They'd typically have three cars in such an operation, so that they could take turns being close to the suspect without arousing suspicion.
He said that according to the law, officers fully obeyed road laws during such an operation, but unofficially, it was impossible to do so. Once he got pulled over by a traffic cop, who, seeing his radio, maps etc. and badge, profusely apologized and sent him back on his way.
I imagine that moving surveillance is what they are envisioning 'spies' using this power for, rather than using an Aston Martin to chase an assassin motorcyclist through a built-in-middle-ages town on market day.
I do think it is better to recognize the reality of the situation, then you can put regulations and guidelines around what is and is not acceptable. You can't issue guidelines on how to handle a situation you pretend doesn't exist.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
"New study shows traffic accidents and speed related injuries have increased 50% since the law excusing government agents from the speed limit was enacted. GCHQ responded by saying the law is essential to thwart terrorist activities."
Wrong. Statistics of traffic speed incidents will be classified to maintain the antiterrorist operational integrity.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Just because there isn't a current exemption from law for them, does not mean the law applies to them. When you are above the law, you do not need an exemption from laws that do not apply to you.
Yes, Officer I was speeding.
Why was I speeding, well you see, I'm an agent of MI6.
No I cannot give you credentials as I am currently on a covert op.
Kindly let me go or I will have my superior contact your superior and have you demoted to foot patrol!
When I last visited the UK drivers drove like maniacs on the motorway. Speed limits seemed to be universally ignored. 100 miles per hour seemed to be typical.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
Anyone speeding should be assumed to be a member of the Secret Intelligence Service and not deteained by the police.
Next MI5 and 6 will be removed from being required to use toilet paper to wipe their ass after a shit fit!
Should save the ExChecker a billion pounds sterling a year in management costs alone.
ya very stupid ....
ya know what i got a real sweet idea
everyone not a spy ..drive real slow
haha
Some dumb shit in the MI5 who does nothing but read Iranian Porn all day gets to drive like a maniac all they way back to their stupid hole in Brentwood. Because he needs that level of Freedom to protect the Queen. Assholes.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
How many people die in traffic accidents compared to terrorist attacks?
Here's a bit of context on what you're allowed to do re: the "licence to speed" in a police car from Matt Delito, who is a pseudonym for a Metropolitan Police officer somewhere in London:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/12/jog-on-douchebag/
From wikiquote:
Anatole France, Le Lys Rouge [The Red Lily] (1894), ch. 7: La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
In this case it prevents the powerful and the weak, equally, from breaking the law that only the weak may be pulled over for speeding.
GoldenEye (1995)
Q: Now, this I'm particularly proud of - behind the headlights, stinger missiles!
James Bond: Excellent, just the thing for unwinding after a rough day at the office.
Q: Need I remind you, 007, that you have a license to kill, not to break the traffic laws.
I think there was also some admonishment in View to a Kill after the Paris driving.
So is this why James Bond is never speeding in the movies?
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
I was lied to by BBC america - Captain Jack and team definitly broke the speed limit many times!
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Judge: Do you have any evidence for this allegation?
1. Of course they are guilty. If they weren't, they wouldn't be suspects, would they?
2. Why would you ask such a question? Are you one of them?
Terrorism terrorism terrorism! National Security! Terrorism! National Security!!
Give us all the powers, we promise we'll never misuse them.
Thanks or else,
AC
As a necessary condition for the speed limit breaking, the transport ministry requires the agents to use recently discovered paper helmets.
Well, now they're licensed to kill ...
If you think that the spooks needs to apply for that stinking license to do what they do, there is a bridge in Brooklyn is looking for a buyer.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
They haven't realzed yet that they are on an island, so there's actually nowhere to run.
So they don't get off for corporate espionage too?
I wish my GF would say that.
Need I remind you, 007, that you have a license to kill, not to break the traffic laws.
This pertains to my interests.
alien/human hybrids should be rejected in society.
...which would get you into the houses of parliament even if the name says G Fawkes and you have a barrel of gunpowder under your arm.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
A couple of decades ago there was a special forces unit, 14 Intelligence Company, who did undercover operations, primarily in Northern Ireland. I've read a couple of books about it (this is a good one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Operators-Inside-Intelligence-Company/dp/0099728710) and they all mention how operatives were given training in advanced driving.
In one instance, they were pulled over by police during training, but when they provided a code word they were allowed to continue.
So I guess they've always been doing this, but now it's just been formalised.
They're not only allowed to speed, but they can now legally deploy oil slicks, and smoke exhausts against other motorists. But only if they're playing the theme to Peter Gunn really loudly.
I'm sure they will have the proper request filed for the occasion and will fill out the relevant forms just before doing do. Or "communicate central", which will provide one for them, clear the path, warn the patrols, shutter any possible surveillance at the right places and times, program the street lights, and set up a pursuit support task (WWII Battle of Britain style).
Just like they do for the Royals, the Aristocracy, CEOs, Financial and Corporate VIPs, some diplomats, Pinochet, visiting oligarchs and dignitaries, top E-Ucrats, and a few butlers, nannies, and special delivery services on very very important errands.
Not many people need be involved, only the semi-organic quasi-dimensional A.I. that controls that sort of thing - as well as much of the rest. Why would that be a problem?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-corruption-of-britain-uks-key-institutions-infiltrated-by-criminals-9052617.html
If you're Bill Murray, all you need is a cigarette case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP-u6XWclKQ
Before:
Spook says: Oh no, I'd better not speed to disarm the nuclear weapon and save the world in case I get a ticket in the mail in 2 weeks time!!!. Oh no, IT'S TOO LATE!
Now:
Spook says: Fear not, I shall go 35mph in a 30 zone and SAVE THE WORLD!
The fact is that the Police cannot speed whenever they please, they have to be on a recorded "emergency" incident, and unless the records support the need for the "blues and twos" then the driver will very much get a ticket. So how is this going to work with a spy? Are they going to write down the top secret terrorist incident they were speeding to in order to get away with a £30 ticket? I think not.
Alternatively, if they are caught by one of the very very few remaining police with the power to pull over a vehicle (rather than simply being flashed by a robo-enforcement scamera) how are they going to answer the plod when he asks "Whats all this about then?" Are they going to say "sorry, you can't give me a ticket but I can't tell you why you can't give me a ticket?"
Waste-of-time legislation....in fact I can't believe I wasted my time typing this.....
This is the crowd I grew up with, so I may be the unkowning carrier of disinformation, but here is my read:
All drove very fast. They did get ticketed frequently stateside, but the personnel office had resources. Justifications were welded onto all damage.
A small number drove mad fast because they couldn't pull out of some high-danger mentality even after the helicopter lift. They flouted the law like city kids who are "in the system", since they felt doomed anyway. You can see that kind of driving around the exits for military bases, where soldiers drive ninety to work because that is their permanent risk profile.
But most were just trying to feel the thrill, to act like the real thing. They had race-car training and cop evasion training and could surprize you when they decided to treat some ordinary sight as a threat. But they suffered that ordinary human pathetic weakness for emergency powers and a starring role.
Of course, the British are pioneering. Wait for the feedback effect, when someone challenges the phony backstory for a traffic death, and a file is opened on this new strain of domestic saboteur.
foreign spies should just watch traffic and see who doesnt get tickets for speeding then?
In civilized states of civilized countries, it's illegal to clog the passing lane. My understanding is that the Bretons have no such law, though that's true of most countries, including the USA; only a few states have one, and I've never even heard of it being enforced
New Jersey is one of the states where that is the law and, oddly enough, it is enforced pretty regularly.
Master morality.
A new hobby will spring up.
SPY SPOTTING. Join now and get an early leg up on how many cars, faces and locations you can attach to possible spies.
Big points go to an Aston Martin DB5 spotting I wager. The faster the better.
1) Hack the traffic monitoring cameras and datamine to determine who is able to speed with impunity.
2) Pose as cop. Pull over speeder. Check for "It's cool I'm a spy" license.
3) Busted!
Part of being a good spy is being able to blend in. How does this help them blend in?
Lets make something legal, legal!
If it's really an imminent national security threat, where you're putting peoples lives at risk by driving faster, the risk of a speeding ticket isn't going to change anything.
Since they have the license to kill, why don't they just blow up traffic lights and cars in front of them with bazooka?
The traffic doesn't care what speed your car or special privileges allow you to drive. You go the same speed as everyone else.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Same as in the US...
What about the rights of the lonely arch villan? What about him/her/it? Surely you don't expect us to follow the speed limits when MI-5 and the like are trailing us. Oh damn, there goes my cover again..
So in other words, an organization which is tasked with defending the lives of citizens(from one of the most remote & unlikely threats) is being given carte blanche to violate regulations regarding one of the most persistent, imminent, & probable threats to their health?
Well, on the bright side: from this EXTREME position of lacking a sense of priorities(or perspective) there can only be progress. You can hardly do worse than focusing on the least probable threat at the expense of the most probable.
The problem is the laws that allow them to "get the job done" without meaningful discussion & accountability invariably result in severe abuse. Sure it starts out "we need these laws to stop a bomber", but eventually it becomes "we needed to fire dozens of rounds into a crowd of innocent people to stop an unarmed mentally unstable jaywalker."
A 'licence to speed' is not necessary. Saner countries do it much simpler: 'emergencies trumps other laws'. Which is why you can legally kill in self defence even though murder is outlawed in all other cases. It applies to traffic too - anyone can legally ignore speed limits when bringing a dying person to the hospital. National security emergencies likewise.
Your understanding is wrong.
1) We're "British", or if you must insist, "Britons". Some of us will even answer to "Brits". Mais etre Breton, c'est bien une autre chose.
2) You'd be AMAZED how many specific driving laws we don't have. That doesn't make things lots of things legal, because what we DO have are more general offences, such as "driving without due care and attention" and "driving without reasonable consideration for other road users", backed by a wealth of case law. THAT leaves courts free to consider just about anything that may happen on the road and find it illegal if the circumstances warrant it. Try anything antisocial, let alone dangerous, within sight of traffic police, and you could well find yourself in court for it. Oh, and don't bank on your lawyers finding a loophole and getting you off on a technicality - because the laws are framed in a general manner, there are precious few of those.
3) We don't, technically, have such a thing as a "passing lane" (there was even a road campaign a few years back that went along the lines of, "This ((inside lane)) is NOT a 'slow lane'; this (middle lane)) is NOT a 'fast lane'; this ((outer lane)) is NOT an 'overtaking lane'"). Correct lane discipline is to overtake on the right only, and return towards the left as soon as it's safe and sensible to do so.
4) The other thing we have here is the "Highway Code". The Highway Code is a government-issued publication listing rules and guidelines for road users in the UK. It doesn't technically have the force of law, but it is the guide to "correct" road behaviour, and courts - and especially those at the lower levels, where the judge may well be a lay magistrate, and a judgement following on the Highway Code is an easy, solid basis for not being appealed - will normally look to it in deciding what constitutes acceptable driving behaviour. The section on motorway lane discipline can be seen at https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/lane-discipline-264-to-266.
5) As if that weren't enough, and as it happens, clogging outside lanes IS a specific offence here. It became law in the middle of the last year. An explicit law wasn't actually needed, for the reason I've previously given, but the Government presumably felt it needed to indulge in a little bit of "gesture politics".
"You cant arrest me, i am spy and work for MI6.
Now, upload my picture on the net and lets tell the whole world."
Cant wait to see how this will work.
I did a quick search for officer involved traffic fatalities (at least in the US), while I wasn't able to find anything showing police/bystander statistics the general statistics for law enforcement traffic injury/fatality are quite telling. A vast majority of accidents occurred in dry conditions with a front end impact. The leading cause of accidents was excessive speed or failure to stay in the proper lane (does not include high speed chases which is a separate statistic).
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811411.pdf
But Terrorists...
Terrorists don't have emergency lights...
etc...
...one rule for them, one rule for the rest of us.
The UK can now officially rot for all I care.
Hey, and while you are in Germany get one of those designer purses for your woman. I think it is called a Deutsche bag!
If you are breaking the speed limit, you aren't a spy, you are a cop. I know all the James Bond crap floating around, but real spies (real ones) aren't noticed. They don't wear Armani(tm) suits, don't drive around in Lotus Esprits(tm) with machine guns behind the headlights. Sorry to burst the bubble, but real spies are people who look more like Bob the butcher and Alice the insurance salesperson. You don't know they are a spy, and have no suspicion that they are a spy. The whole "James Bond" thing is a big fat lie (has been for 50+years). Related reading: define: overt, covert. Oh, and spies might have special forces training, but usually not. They might be 'packing', but maybe not. The basic premise is: if you have even the slightest suspician that they are a spy, they have failed utterly in their job. Their day is 99.9% routine, and 0.1% doing whatever it is they do. They might have a blind drop or their signal might just be to adjust the venetian blind half way up from 7:30-8:00 every second Tuesday night. A plain, car (could be a bland looking SmartCar(tm), or a bicycle), could drive by once every two weeks, slow by the house, note the blind, and then move on. Nothing suspicious, nothing out of the ordinary. Humdrum is gold here. Have we put you to sleep yet? Perfect!
Are they 0065?
So, ANPR and average speed cameras are to be rolled out everywhere, variable speed limits enforced by said recognition technologies to keep the proles down to speed... and then this.
Way to blow your own cover.
The car speeding in the average zone is secret service/undercover police/driven by an idiot.
I'm so glad we have such a clever government in the UK, with all the right priorities.
I suspect the gadget guys have already invented the invisible flashing light for spies in an emergency.
An Infra Red / UV flashing light from some non visible part of the spectrum which most of us can't see.
to spot the spies