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Target Hackers Have More Data Than They Can Sell

itwbennett writes "The hackers who stole millions of credit card numbers from Target customers are probably 'laying low knowing that everyone is looking for them,' says Alex Holden, who runs cybercrime consultancy Hold Security. But it's also likely that they can't sell them: 'You can imagine that having a lot of stolen credit cards will not net the hackers, say $35 per card for all 40 million,' said Holden. 'Even if the hackers are willing to sell cards for $1 a card, no one will buy the stolen goods in these amounts.'"

18 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. Stupid People by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can always reduce things. They can sell a smaller subsets.

    1. Re:Stupid People by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But the buyers know (roughly) how many cards are available. The media has seen to that. So they know its a buyers' market.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Stupid People by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can always reduce things. They can sell a smaller subsets.

      This. Thefuck is this article? The guy who broke the breach also pointed out where the cards were getting sold at too. This article is a muse on a blog by a supposed "pundit" (pundit, n.: one whose insistence of credibility is the only thing greater than their ignorance).

    3. Re: Stupid People by Redmancometh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I think they single-handedly killed the market. Think about it...no one knows all of the CC numbers yet. Not only should no one buy off of those guys, but no one knows who those guys are. So if say 80% of the cards are cancelled there are now 32 million legitimate useless credit card numbers out there.

      No one is going to trust anyone. I have a feeling this is going to do the blackhat community quite a blow.

    4. Re: Stupid People by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As some one who deals with security on a daily basis, I have seen tools to prevent this.

      What happens is someone advertises say 10 K cards for sale. They actually package 15 K cards in the pack, when the user gets the pack they have a robot ap that goes and makes purchases from shops that are on the internet and are known to be able to easycard fraud friendly. The robots order something quickly like a $20 cable or piece of merchandise. If its declined the card is dropped from the database.

      Once all the cards are checked if the buy has close to 10 K they don't care. If less then say 8 K they get another chunk of 4 K to go at again. Until they get close to the 10 K they were promised. This is how the good groups do it. The ones who don't care just sell in chunks of 5 K to 10 K with no guarantees.

      Now they also can use another system for cards to do quick transactions checks just like paypal would do to check if the card is valid. Small bump purchase then issue a refund if they want to hide from the owner of the card.

      I have to monitor these "groups" as I need to make sure that none of my servers are being used in their scams. A good security guy keeps his eye on everything ! And yes we monitor IRC and other methods of chatter to see if any of our servers have been compromised.

      --
      This package Does Not Contain a Winner
  2. Seeing that by Kardos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    next to everybody's card has been stolen, is it time for everybody to get a new card? It'll make the stolen database worthless, as well as all other databases of stolen credit cards...

  3. Probably not worth a dollar... by jddeluxe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My bank (Chase) has sent out new cards to anyone that had a transaction at Target during the time period they indicated of the breach, and many other banks/financial institutions have done likewise. The value of the purloined data is heading towards nil quickly.

    1. Re:Probably not worth a dollar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah but those are debit cards not credit cards. If stuff happens with your wife's debit cards it's her money that's gone and she has to try to get it back from the bank/merchant.

      Whereas if they were credit cards, if stuff happens it's the bank/merchant's money that's gone and they'd have to try to get the money from her or their insurer or eat the loss.

      See the difference in urgency? ;)

  4. De Beers and OPEC by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And now you understand the dilemma of De Beers and OPEC, which have more diamonds and oil than they know what to do with and trickle them to the market to keep the price up.

  5. It has arrived! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Funny

    Security through Ubiquity!

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:It has arrived! by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's the latter day corollary to hiding something in plain sight.

  6. Spoiler alert by symbolset · · Score: 4, Funny

    The data was stolen by the company that prints the replacement cards.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  7. Uh, it's not 40 million... by Patent+Lover · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's 110 million. Yes about 1/3 of the U.S. population has used a credit card at Target. I pray they don't hit Wal Mart.

    1. Re:Uh, it's not 40 million... by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well given how successful this was on a Windows based POS system, just imagine all the restaurants, and bars that might be compromised too. I'm in agreement with what others have said; we need to go to the Chip-and-PIN system. If we are going to be replacing CC for potentially hundreds of millions of people, now is the time to make the switch. If the bank wants to charge me a few extra bucks for a fancy new card, do it. I'd rather have the peace of mind after this fiasco.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Uh, it's not 40 million... by baker_tony · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wait, American's aren't using chip and pin yet?

    3. Re:Uh, it's not 40 million... by cusco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Our banks are run by people who play "executive musical chairs". If something will save the bank a million dollars over the next ten years, but nothing for the first three years, it won't get implemented because the executives will have rotated out to another company by the time the savings could affect their quarterly bonuses. Chip and pin would cost the banks money to implement, so it won't happen until you get a set of executives who can see further than the next board meeting.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  8. Re:What me worry? by TheloniousToady · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, the merchant eats it - at least that's been my experience as a merchant. The ingestion process is called a chargeback. It's one reason why credit card issuers are so glad to make refunds to consumers. Merchants live in fear of chargebacks because not only do they lose the revenue, they also have to pay a penalty.

    As a merchant, you quickly figure out that it's best to accommodate any request for a refund, even if you think you're being treated unfairly. For example, I recently had a customer in another country who asked me to pay his local taxes on the sale I had just made to him. So I gave him a refund for the amount of the tax. Easy decision.

    (I shouldn't be telling you folks this, it's supposed to be a dirty little secret. Don't tell anybody else.)

  9. Re:What me worry? by black6host · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As for parent, I recall my boss telling me something about retail: It would be better to pay roughly 20% of the people who buy from you to walk away rather than deal with them, because the problems they'll have will ultimately cost you more.

    Somehow, as a favor to someone, I ended up managing the operations of a service based company for a short period of time. We would have customers that constantly were saying: "Do you know who I am?" Usually the past, past, past president of some condo association. Or customers who thought we'd starve without their business and make all kinds of unreasonable demands that would result in a loss to us. We'd let that happen maybe two or three times and when it became apparent that the customer's behavior was chronic I would simply tell them that our goal was to satisfy our customers in every way and obviously we were unable to meet their needs. We valued their satisfaction and felt they would be better served by another company. I'd then suggest a competitor for them to call. The reactions were priceless! They couldn't believe they were being "fired". It helped us two ways. First, it freed up our resources to service the customers who appreciated being treated fairly (and we really were service oriented, money back guarantee on everything.) Second, by the time our competitor figured out what kind of customer they just took on they had suffered the loss.

    This was a service industry where there was more work to do than we had people to do it so there really was no loss to us in culling the bad ones. Offtopic I know but maybe someone will benefit from our experience.