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Obama Announces Surveillance Reforms
In a speech today, U.S. President Barack Obama announced changes for the operations of the country's intelligence agencies. He says the current program will end "as it currently exists," though most of the data collection schemes will remain intact. However, the data collected in these sweeps will not be stored by the U.S. government, instead residing with either the communications providers or another third party. (He pointed out that storing private data within a commercial entity can have its own oversight issues, so the attorney general and intelligence officials will have to figure out the best compromise.) In order for the NSA to query the database, they will need specific approval from a national security court. Obama also announced "new oversight" to spying on foreign leaders, and an end to spying on leaders of friendly and allied countries. Further, decisions from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court will be annually reviewed for declassification. A panel advocating for citizen privacy will have input into the FISC. There will be chances to national security letters: they will no longer have an indefinite secrecy period. Companies will be able to disclose some amount of information about the NSLs they receive, something they've been asking for. Another change is a reduction in the number of steps from suspected terrorists that phone data can be gathered. Instead of grabbing all the data from people three steps away, it's now limited to two.
And the intertwining of corporation and state increases.
Remember, libertarians: power will always find a vacuum. So there will always be strong government - the only thing we can influence is who controls the strings.
...this sounds to me like rebranding.
In other words:
1) A private enterprise will store secret data: What could possibly go wrong?
2) More secret court oversight: as if the secret court that exists right now is not rubber-stamping everything the NSA passes its way.
3) Companies will be able to talk about the secret court orders: Google and Facebook signed a big check for the future Obama Presidential Library?
4) Rest assured this is a true reform! Nothing to see here, folks, move along...
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
"If you like your privacy, you can keep it, period."
So, aside from a few window dressing changes and a toss to the big Internet companies - the biggest difference is that another company is going to 'store' the info and the government is going to have to ask itself if it can get access to it?
Another nice contract to somebody. No real change in the Status Quo.
Gotta love that hope and change.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Unless laws change to explicitly ban behavior there is little to stop them from creating exceptions to their own policies and procedures.
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
I watched the whole thing. He chose to focus on phone meta data collection and not even address prism and the likes of the new utah data center. The speech and these new "reforms" are all about preserving the NSA ecosystem (read money) that spends billions of dollars of tax payer money on programs we don't want. For christs sake they are tapping domestic fiber lines and siphoning everything into storage (including phone calls) and the language in the law doesn't even consider it a search until the data (that they already stored) is queried. He won't address it because they already spend billions on it and he who upsets the flow of money in washington might as well tie their own noose. The dollar sign is the new swastika.
Since they have to go through the FISA court for warrants to do the searches now the bandwidth of the court will limit their ability to dragnet like that. I have my own problems with the FISA court system but at least it does add an additional party looking over the requests and the small size of the court reduces the amount of work that can be done requiring the NSA to actually focus their work to real suspects. This change is good for American freedom from a surveillance state and it's probably good for our security as well as the analysts will be looking at sets of data with a higher signal to noise ratio.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
But he PROMISED that all they data they're going to gather on you will never be looked at. Doesn't that make you happy?
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
I heard that Target put in a bid to securely host all of the secret data.
Since they claim they have to go through the FISA court for warrants to do the searches now
FTFY
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
... but also go fuck yourself, Barry. Can't believe I voted for you. Ah well, let me look over the protest options next cycle.
When you live in a sick society, just about everything you do is wrong.
"Since they have to go through the FISA court for warrants to do the searches now the bandwidth of the court will limit their ability to dragnet like that."
Sorry, but no. The FISA court already approved all that in the past. So why would this make any difference?
This is a joke. A distinction without a difference. You know very well that Obama has been in favor of expanding surveillance -- because he DID. This is just another of his many lies. He's pretending to address the issue without making any real, substantive changes.
What about oversight? They say they're going to stop doing this and that, but how will we ever know whether they're being honest about it? How will we know whether the next president decides to turn the bus back around? Congressional oversight is a joke, as members of Congress (e.g,, Feinstein) are as much in favor of running roughshod over citizens' rights and allies' respect as Gen. Alexander is. FISC oversight is likewise pointless, and several of those judges have argued against even having an opposing side arguing for the privacy protections of the people. Short of another Snowden, there's no way to know.
... recognized that his administration has slipped up in allowing the NSA to have 100% free feign with civilian surveillance. Our bad.
To reward the citizens continued support of out cause we will be increasing the official ObamaChocolate programs weekly individual chocolate allowance from 30 grams to 25 grams.
There's already been a report of one of the FISA judges asking for more funding to expand the court if this kind of change goes through. We can't count on the bandwidth remaining small.
I don't see any of the "changes" they've made or have talked about making as protecting American freedom from a surveillance state. All I see is Washington trying to sweep things under the rug and bury things deeper.
We made a change, won't you please forget it ever happened now? OOooooh look over there!!! Shiny!!!
But he PROMISED that all they data they're going to gather on you will never be looked at. Doesn't that make you happy?
Just as happy as the families of every detainee released when Gitmo closed five years ago, and the families of troops that all came home from Afghanistan and Iraq five years ago when we ended those wars.
When Obama mentioned Snowden's name, you could see a bit of disgust and a sneer streak across his face for a brief moment. He then felt the need to point out that he was ahead of Snowden, planning to confront the system anyway.
Nothing is more dangerous than a programmer with a screwdriver.
How about U.S. citizens can query the database and receive a report on what data the NSA has collected?
Read "Enemies: A History of the FBI" by Tim Weiner and you'll see that we have been through this BS before. Nothing changes.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
I calculate the odds that this Politician is lying about this to be 100%.
Ever heard of pre-signed forms? The FISA court is worthless.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
what annoys me about this is obama is focusing on the phone data collection stuff. but what about PRISM, and the L3 infrastructure stuff, the new text message stuff (which is notable because it's content, not metadata), and all that jazz. he says the NSA's stuff is legal and he'll make a few adjustments, but he's ignoring all the ILLEGAL things they do. BTDubs the full text of the speech is at NYTimes.
Regardless of one's feelings about Snowden, I think it's pretty clear these changes (IF actually implemented) are a result of him opening peoples' eyes to the extent of the surveillance and spying on the American people. We seriously owe him, big time imo.
As an left-leaning independent, I was generally optimistic about Obama entering office, sadly, not so much any more --- NOT that I think things would be better under Republicans mind you, who seem to say 'less government' only in regards to their corporate overlords, but are heavy handed in wanting to legislate their personal morality (gay marriage/rights, religion, women's issues, etc)
Many days I wish the US had a parliamentary system such as England or Canada, this two party sh*t if for the birds. At least in those countries, minority parties can actually gets seats and have some representation -- here, we are stuck with two lame ass parties.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
Obviously LOVEINT is one example. But more details are coming out about how David Patraues was caught having an affair because of "metadata" collected by the NSA.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/06/17/4111871/metadata-helped-reveal-gen-petraeus.html#.Utlud2nfqCg
When Jill Kelley first reported getting threatening emails about Patraues, the FBI read all her emails as part of "a routine step".
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/us/from-petraeus-scandal-an-apostle-for-privacy.html
They didn't have a warrant to read her email, they just hacked into google and made a copy of everyone's email. If you report a crime to the FBI they read your email. Simple as that.
There! I feel the hot breath of reform already. Big brother is a subcontract.
Now the secret courts will have to examine secret accusations with extra secrecy. The NSA building data centers will be reversed, so that the commercial sector can occupy this function. And send the bill for "services".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Notice how this is a curb on the *use* of the collected data - not on collecting it in the first place.
In other words, politicians have realised how much power this level of information can give them - and that is why control of it is far too important to be left in the hands of the NSA.
So what we have is just a power struggle over the strings of control - and not over the real issue of overbearing intrusion into the private lives of the people of this planet.
All your ghosts are just false positives.
The real surveillance and intelligence community crimes and abuses were not addressed.
They did nothing about the remote sensing and energy weapons abuses. Because they'd surely have to convict the President and others of crimes.
Dr. Robert Duncan of the CIA says that radar systems were retro fitted with mind reading and mind altering technology in the 1970s and 1980s. Which they are using to remotely decode peoples thoughts, emotions, memories, and also to remotely control and commit secret assassinations and experimentation right here domestically for the last 35 years.
These black operations can also be confirmed by NSA whistleblower Russell Tice, who said they target Americans with space capability during their black operations. That includes illegal surveillance called Remote Neural Monitoring and Electronic Brain Link, based on the same technologies Duncan disclosed.
A US Investigative Services (defense contractor) employee also came forward to say that these weapons are real and being used to target people to me in private. In fact, she presumes, that I was targeted during highly illegal psych / weapons experimentation.
This technology is the ultimate surveillance gear, and our fuck tard police, FBI, CIA, NSA, DoD and Homeland Security agents are running around using this in secret on us. Spying on our thoughts, memories, what we see, hear, think, and feel. Agents link up and covertly communicate and spy on citizens, and they attack and brutalize people, set them up to look mentally ill.
Read USIS employee transcripts here : http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/USIS.html
Read Remote Neural Monitoring article and 4+ patents covering these weapons, watch the 23+ videos including ones with Russell Tice and Dr. Robert Duncan admitting it here : http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html
Finally, see my homepage with more information including Dr. Robert Duncan's book about these abuses here : http://www.obamasweapon.com/
My full story is on the site including names of people involved in targeting me with these weapons. It all started during the big US Department of Justice investigation of the mental health system going on here in Oregon, which has been going on since 2006.
The thing is, Obama knows this is going on. And so do these intelligence analysts who created the recommendations for Obama. They did not even come close to addressing these issues, and covered it all up. Tice is also claiming the program PRISM that was the target of the recommendations, is the low tech side of the surveillance issue, while the space capabilities are the high tech side which were not mentioned or addressed once. The media has been retardly covering only the low tech side, censoring revelations from Russell Tice and others. Like Tice said in July 2013, Snowden's allegations were only scratching the surface. They are never going to stop illegally watching us, .. they got 30+ electron imaging Electronic Intelligence satellites watching us now, globally, and in America.
The FISA court has been a whitewash since the Church Committee days. FISA rejects about one warrant per 3 year period (or 1 in 3000):
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324904004578535670310514616
You can't rationally call rubber stamping like that "oversight."
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Likely the 'new' program is already up and running, this just provides a distraction for the masses.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
I believe that the solution will involve dividing the nation into precincts on the lines established by state and local voting. Each precinct will have have their own FISA judge assigned.
What a safer country, will America be, than it was in former days, when known as land of free.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Also, the President is not allowed to know everything about what the secret agencies do. There have been many examples of that.
The U.S. government has engaged in violence each year for more than 100 years, to make a profit for a few. Anyone desiring more information about that can, for example, read these highly rated books:
Overthrow: America's century of regime change from Hawaii to Iraq by Stephen Kinzer
The brothers: John Foster Dulles, Allen Dulles, and their secret world war by Stephen Kinzer
So since the commercial entities will now be responsible for storing all of this data, care to guess as to how much the big carriers are going to charge us, the customer, for this now-mandatory requirement?
One can only imagine the cost of storing the NSAs requirements for oversight. All I do know is the costs sure as hell won't come out of the executive bonus fund. The customer will foot that bill. I promise you.
And forget deleting the data. Any of it. Ever. That's not an option.
Then the US government, for the sake of "redundancy", will still contract with some other 3rd party to store all of the same data over again, so they can create a new "Federal Communications Security Act" tax or some other horseshit to bilk the American people out of even more money, and fund PRISM v2.0
Oh...I'm sorry, did you actually believe they wouldn't do this again? Please. Besides, PRISM v2.0 has an app store, and the drone app I hear is killer.
I know I'll be modded down for this, but whatever.
I just don't see the big deal over any of the surveillance going on. I guess that now the data is structured and easily searchable rather than having to stitch together random analog phone conversations. But in a country of 300 million people, no one is interested in your text messages, emails, etc. unless you're using them to actively plan something. The Internet is a collection of semi-public networks, always has been. And spying has always existed; that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.
Everyone loves to bash the president, but I'll bet it's not an easy job. Imagine what it was like for Cold War presidents...when the Soviet Union was actively planning our destruction and we were planning theirs. Coming back from the inauguration party, you meet with your top generals and are told of every threat that hasn't been made public. On top of that, you're ultimately responsible for nuclear weapons AND you somehow have to make everyone like you. I imagine something like this happened with Obama...once he got the job he was briefed on what's actually happening outside of the public eye, and chose to continue the spying programs. Post 9/11, there were many people who didn't want to see that relatively minor event repeated at any cost, which is why these programs were put in place to begin with. An entity that was determined enough and had enough resources would be able to cause way worse devastation if they wanted to.
So call me an ignorant sheep or whatever -- I just don't see why so many people are up in arms. I'd expect the rabid anti-government crowd to be shouting their protests from within their mountaintop compounds, but not the average citizen.
I won't be happy until the senior NSA officials responsible for these programs are charged criminally and given public trials. With great power comes great responsibility and the people in charge at the NSA have forgotten that. They need a harsh reminder to prevent this from happening again.
"We've changed just enough to mollify the public outrage" isn't acceptable and won't deter future transgressions.
...all about preserving the NSA ecosystem (read money) that spends billions of dollars of tax payer money on programs we don't want.
I think Obama's actions in office are disgusting, but remember that it is a bi-partisan (in this regard) Congress that continually votes more and more billions for black-budget agencies that have no congressional oversight.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
You're reading is FAIL --- has Gitmo ended(1)? Is Afghanistan over(2)? Did Iraq linger and linger(3)? A passing familiarity with recent events makes it sarcasm as obvious as a cement truck barreling down the freeway.
(1) Obama did have a plan to close the Gitmo facility, and transfer its practices to the Thomson SuperMax in Illinois, aka Gitmo North. Anyone who can't see the how Obama used the word "close" there in a deceptive manner needs to take some reading comprehension courses. http://www.salon.com/2009/12/15/gitmo_3/
(2) Obama at one point tripled the number of troops in Afghanistan over GWB's numbers. That's the opposite of ending it. http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/22/chart-u-s-troop-levels-over-the-years/
(3) Obama quit Iraq only when the Iraqi government wouldn't extend SOFA. SOFA prevents US soldiers from being tried for crimes committed in Iraq, in Iraqi courts. When Iraq wouldn't extend it and thereby extend the official troop presence, Obama pulled out and everyone gave him credit for peace, when really, he merely failed to make more war.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/10/23/obamas-revisionist-history-on-ending-the-iraq-war-a-lesson-from-the-3rd-presidential-debate/
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
No, no, no, this proves that 99.97% of the government's applications are totally reasonable and responsible. The system works!
my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
Perhaps he was studying it to learn best how to kill it. Know your enemy.
what annoys me about this is obama is focusing on the phone data collection stuff.
That is deliberate. He'll be seen doing something about that NSA spying that's been in the news without actually doing anything meaningful.
Nice try barry but... no cigar. The only people who care about spying on foreign countries (friend OR foe) are the foreign countries. Who likely all do it themselves anyway. Spying on your own people reeks of Stalin and Hitler. (the list goes on)
Using a court order? No problem since you'd have to introduce reason. Just for the hell of it? Might as well just burn the constitution.
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
This is true but Obama did support Bush on all patriot act stuff... he has always supported this kind of stuff... hell, if you can say one thing about the guy is that he doesnt flipflop around this particular issue.
NO SIG
"Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" is the only phrase that comes to mind.
That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
"While the bulk telephone data remains with the NSA for now, Obama wants those records moved out of government hands, though it is uncertain where, a senior administration official said in briefing reporters on condition of not being identified."
I'm thinking, some analyst's laptop. Stored in the back of his car while he stuffs a few bills at the kitty kat lounge.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You're missing the simplest explanation: during his campaign, Obama lied.
Dead on.
Obama learned politics in Chicago - the current record holder for corrupt big-city political machines. He is a classic example of a corrupt machine politician.
The Clintons are also masters of the (less intense) state-level version of the form, having risen to the top in Arkansas, which has been run by a corrupt machine since a Mafia family from New York took it over when the big city got too hot for them. Obama beat them for the Democratic nomination. He has now remade the Federal government on the model of Chigago.
This was predicted and announced by quite a large number of people well before the election. Nevertheless, he won. So how did this come about?
There are a number of factors. But IMHO this is the most decisive: The Republican Party's organization, for well over a decade, has been solidly controlled by the Neocon faction (one of the four major and several minor factions of the party). In the last two presidential nomination battles, the Liberty wing (another of the big four), under the inspiration of Ron Paul and drawing members mainly from the young and/or Internet connected, made substantial inroads.
Their successes in the 2008 nomination process threatened to eventually displace the Neocons' control of the party machinery, as the Neocons had displaced their predecessors (mainly the Christian Right) previously. So in the 2012 nomination the Neocons fought an extremely dirty battle, with large amounts of cheating, rule-breaking, and even incidents of violence (including broken bones). This so alienated the Liberty wing (and some members of other factions) that they refused to support the Neocon's nominee in the general election. Romney lost five states by margins substantially less than the number of people who voted for Ron Paul in those states' primaries, and those states' electoral votes would have swung the general election. It's a good bet that virtually none of the Ron Paul supporters voted for Romney, and even those would have been more that balanced by Republican voters for other candidates who were also appalled at the machine's treatment of their opposition.
One circulating meme was: "If this is how they behave in the nomination process, how can we allow them to control of the machinery of the Federal Government?" Even KNOWING that Obama would run the Fed like a Chicago-style machine and use it to stomp on the people, letting the Neocon's machine continue to consolidate their control of the major opposition party and drive the big-government non-choice-election system into the foreseeable future could still look like a worse choice.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
So it's ok that we're fighting a bullshit war, because the soldiers are voluntary and are all there because they want to be there and also because they don't want to be brought up on federal charges for desertion or refusing an order. Is that what you're saying?
What about my brother-in-law, for example. He is a highly trained and highly skilled Marine who is very good at rendering explody things harmless. The government has spent a lot of money making sure that he knows how to do his job, and can do it well. If you give him a bomb, he can remove the trigger. He's served several deployments and has a family. He would rather not go back to Afghanistan. He's inquired with several other agencies, including local police forces. The local police forces tell him that he gets to start at the bottom of the ladder, raking in around $25k per year patrolling a beat, and after 2 years of that he would be eligible to move into the SWAT team as an EOD tech. But he can't afford to spend 2 years making $25k and not using his skills, only to be told later whether he even has a job. He has a family to take care of, after all. So even though the Marines have spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars training him, there's nowhere he can even transition to in order to continue his life outside of the military on the same level. Re-enlistment is his only option if he wants to support his family. He doesn't want to fight a BS war, and he doesn't want to enter the bottom ranks of another agency, so what exactly are his choices?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
it sounds like he has skills perfectly suited to this war. what would he do if peace broke out? btdubs glad he's ok so far and hope he remains so.
The key to democracy is that voting really does fix problems that most people actually care strongly about.
Okay. Name one. Name one problem 'fixed' via democracy.
Where I'm from, problems are 'fixed' by constant action, attention, and effort - not just by voting.
Blah blah bootlicking blah.
Look at the Verizon order. The only calls it doesn't apply to are those that start and end in a foreign country. It is patently ludicrous to believe that there is probable cause to think that every call that starts, ends, or is wholly contained within the US borders, involves illegal behavior, nor is there any specificity about the evidence sought.
Any court that would approve such an order in light of the 4th Amendment, is one made up of backbirths like yourself. That's really the heart of it, no matter how many voluminous pages of BS get generated.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
I suspect that being president, he gets to hear mostly from security people, from the armed forces and the like - he has a daily security briefing at least (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Daily_Brief). Is the material in this scrutinized by anyone outside the mainstream security establishment? Does he have a daily economics briefing (if he does, I can only imagine what it consists of). Does he have a daily "we heard from the people" briefing? Or even a weekly ACLU briefing?
No? Then don't be surprised when he tends to give the security folks what they want. They have the high bandwidth conduit to him.
So I read through the whole transcript. There's a lot of fluff in there and lip-service about reform and oversight. Which, hey, is better than coming out swinging claiming that the NSA can do no wrong, which is kinda what we got at the start. The good news is that he understands that we do need people investigating terrorism and that there is a valid reason to keep a leash on those spooks.
Of the ACTUAL changes he's proposing:
-National security letters should not be indefinite ("unless the government demonstrates a real need for further secrecy"). Despite the major cop-out, this is a good thing.
-Asking congress to make an oversight panel in FISC. Which, you know, is asking someone else to watch over your department.
-Treat foreigners like real people. Hey, that's nice.
-Outsourcing the master database to a third party.
Wait, what was that last one?
I am therefore ordering a transition that will end the Section 215 bulk metadata program as it currently exists and establish a mechanism that preserves the capabilities we need without the government holding this bulk metadata.
Well that's a gooooowwwaaaitaminute... That just means someone other than the government is holding EVERYONE'S DATA...
replaced by one in which the providers, or a third party, retain the bulk records, with government accessing information as needed.
HOLY FLIPPING BALLS! What the fuck are you thinking!? You're outsourcing the fucking keys the freaking kingdom to a "third party"!?!?!? Hey, I hear India will do it on the cheap. Maybe China will undercut them.
On the other hand, any third party maintaining a single, consolidated database would be carrying out what's essentially a government function, but with more expense, more legal ambiguity, potentially less accountability, all of which would have a doubtful impact on increasing public confidence that their privacy is being protected.
No fucking shit sherlock. So then why are you doing that?
Not true. They actually use radiation on my genitals to fucking rape me, simulate massage, and other abusive things (nerve compression/virtual sex). But this is what others report is happening to them, too.
Also I was falsely arrested because the police have this technology locally in the area, and they've been using it to hurt me, and I get targeted with them for abuses, false arrests, etc. Yep, so false arrest, inducement of situations, and other abuses. This is what they're doing to people. Just like Dr. Robert Duncan said.
I am currently going to court and expect a big defense all related to this technologies misuse in the area, with experts.
My twitter feed is really clean and I have over 1300 followers. Including big names like NBC, some human rights lawyers from Fox News, quite a few media outlets like Der Speigel, CNN, ACLU, etc. I am not saying they all support me, in fact.. I think the ACLU fucking sucks. And most of these places could have blown the door off this with a story, but so far haven't done shit.
http://twitter.com/toddgiffen