Slashdot Mirror
Detroit Wants Its Own High-Tech Visa
dcblogs writes "Detroit, a city in bankruptcy and dealing with a shrinking population, hopes to turn itself around with the help of 50,000 employment-based green cards. In exchange for the visa, an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time. The visas would be made available under the EB-2 visa category, a visa for advanced degree professionals or those deemed with 'exceptional ability' in the sciences, arts and business. The proposal was made by Michigan's governor, Rick Snyder. Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst at Economic Policy Institute, said Snyder would have more credibility on the issue if he were doing more to help workers in Detroit. In 2011, the state cut jobless benefits by six weeks to 20. 'I also think the federal government should be offering people in the U.S. some money and land in Detroit if they'll move there,' said Costa, or 'just offer it to people across the country who have advanced degrees.'"
...a familiar lifestyle for people from third-world countries with high crime, corrupt cops and crumbling infrastructure.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Here's the problem with importing more and more workers: They're going to get fucked by the Big Boys just like the rest of is. I have no illusions about this.
How about Dan Costa's idea? If the feds want Detroit to live, offer business grants to get people to open up shop there, give the existing population work (instead of just importing more people), and give them the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
With an unemployment rate of 17.7%, it doesn't look to me like they need MORE people imported to look for work. Looks to me like they need to be spurring businesses to start there so that they can hire some of these people who are looking for work.
As we well know, 17.7% means that these are the number of people on the eligible list of unemployment benefits...which they just cut to 20 weeks. So, it doesn't include the number of people who never found a job while they were on unemployment and now have neither a job nor can collect unemployment.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Doesn't using the phrase "an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time" sound a lot like an indentured labour program? It seems awfully familiar to what the Brits did to/in India during the 1800s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system)
The Democratic Party should be the one imploding, not the GOP-- but the offer of free handouts is a tough one to campaign against. It's amazing how most failing cities have been under de facto on-party rule for decades, yet that party has managed to blame the other one for all its ills.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
They should build walls around the city so their remaining citizens cannot leave.
Look at how much of Democratic campaigns are funded by contributions from public employee unions.
We now have a government by the government for the government. AKA the Democratic Party.
You obviously don't know your own car makers do you? I grew up in North America, but live in Europe. Want to know a dirty little secret? I can get reliable low gas requirement AMERICAN cars in Europe. Around 1999 we bought a Jeep Wrangler and then took it to Canada. Since it was NORTH AMERICAN built we could import the car without problems. What was interesting was that the Jeep dealership who had to do some minor changes spent nearly 1.5 hours inspecting the car. We thought something was wrong and asked how come they took so long. Answer, "your Wrangler is Awesome it has so many efficiency features and electronics that I have never seen on sale here."
I recently had a discussion about this with an American and the problem is not the American car makers, but Americans. They want from their American car makers BIG FAT engines with BIG FAT chassis. Americans are not willing to go for the reliable low gas requirements cars because they are "wimpy" cars. The cars I drive here are American built and they are not wimpy. They might not have 600 HP, but who the frig cares since it is not that useful anyways. And even less useful in America...
Go figure, eh!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
How are you going to convince someone with an advanced degree to settle in effing Detroit? They are going to want to escape the poverty of the third world!
The problem facing Detroit is not a lack of people with advanced degrees. The problem is decades of life under a corrupt mayor, high crime, crushing taxes, over-regulation, and shitty weather.
The situation is improving a lot lately, but it has a long way to go. You can't solve this overnight by issuing a bunch of visas. Detroit needs to get serious about redevelopment, crime prevention, and attracting business. Once there are good jobs there, you'll have plenty of Americans with advanced degrees going there. I don't have to remind you that we're in the midst of a "jobless recovery".
All of these things are happening already. It's just a slow process to undo decades of mismanagement.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I know this is an unfamiliar concept in the US, but the people in Detroit are in need and require help from the rest of the country. Their city structure is designed for a much larger population. Now the city must undergo a large transformation. First, it must be determined what the future for Detroit should be, otherwise it will end in chaos. Second, if the government and police are corrupt, this corruption must be ended. Third, initiatives to support start-ups and new businesses must be launched to support an initial growth impulse. To do all this, the state and the USA itself must support these steps. We had similar problems in North-Rhine-Westphalia and in East-Germany. In such situation you have two options: Let them solve their problem alone which will result in emigration of the skilled people to other regions or countries. The remaining people are mostly less skilled and educated, as their mobility is lower. Furthermore, women have a higher mobility than men, which will result in a men surplus, which often cause more violence.
From a civilizing view, this would be a catastrophe. It would also be disruptive to the state structure and therefor disruptive for any democratic society. As a state is a relevant construct for capitalism and the construction and coordination of a society, it is important to support Detroit.
Am I missing something here? Who are these 50,000 people supposed to work for? The article vaguely mentions them, "opening businesses", but I have to ask, open businesesses doing what?
Proverbs 21:19
There's a lot of decay in Detroit, so much so that it's unattractive to new businesses. Even if you get get more workers into Detroit, what would they do for a living? Plow down more blocks of vacant, dilapidated houses? As has been said here, the unemployment rate in Detroit is in the high teens and if there's ever going to be a re-birth, what has to happen is that businesses need to be able to move back into Detroit and that requires a solid government and a solid infrastructure otherwise you may just as well bulldoze the rest down.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
I think Costa missed a big selling point for Detroit - proximity to Canada. If things keep getting worse instead of better, you're only a bridge away from Windsor, Ontario, Canada! Mexicans upset with low employment and poverty go North and cross the border for a better in the States. That same option is available to us! Southern Ontario has the same climate as Detroit, nicer people, generic drugs, and way less gun and violent crime. Sounds like a solution to me!
(The thing is - even I don't know if know if I'm joking or not...)
At some point, if you can't find a job, you need for the greater good to settle for what you can find. For example, after the construction bubble popped in housing, should we just keep construction workers on permanent unemployment? Or should we encourage them to do something different with their lives?
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Actually that is wrong. There are reasons to have large big cars in the US. Frankly we are a giant country. Try driving from Los Angeles to Chicago in a tiny car some time. Midwest and western united states there is a ton of space between locations. Trying to do that in a tiny car does not work. As far as mileage goes the US car makers are to blame. We want fuel efficient cars, even with gas prices in the US two to three times better than the EU we still do a ton more driving and a fuel efficient car would be a god send. But we get messed over on fuel efficiency. We got the smart car and I thought "this will be great. Those little things get great mileage in Europe". What we got was not what you get in the EU. It had worse gas mileage than a VW Jetta. We don't get the nice Diesels you get there. Shoot, our first Hybrid car had worse mileage than our diesel cars. We don't want to have gas guzzlers but if we are going to live with them we might as well be comfortable in them.
actually we can do it now with desalination, no advancement really needed.
Not economically. Industrial scale desalinization is still far too expensive to be practical in most places.
", Detroit, and Michigan in general, will be relevant again"
nope, never happen. Crappy weather, high crime, republican stripping away representation for all but about 50,000 people, no industry... nothing really.
I have news for you. The Detroit Metro area is relevant NOW and has been for a long time. Don't confuse Detroit City with the greater Detroit metropolitan area. Detroit City has its problems and they'll take a while to solve but relatively few people live and work there. About 680,000 people live in Detroit City versus about 3,700,000 in the suburbs. Oakland county immediately to the north of Detroit City is one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the entire US, has a AAA bond rating (the highest possible) and 60% of the Fortune 500 have facilities in the county. It's a genuinely nice place to live - I should know because I live there. When most people say they are "from Detroit" what most really mean is that they live in Detroit Metro, ie the suburbs.
No industry? Hah! Michigan is still the beating heart of manufacturing in the US. The amount of manufacturing that goes on here is astonishing even with the auto industry problems. And it isn't just making cars. Not by a long shot. The number of engineers and high tech jobs here is only exceeded by 3 or 4 cities in the entire US. (do you have any idea how much technology goes into making cars?)
Oh and the weather is only "crappy" for part of the year if you can't handle snow. Spring, summer and fall in Michigan are gorgeous and so is winter once you get outdoors and move around. Personally I like to go skiing, snowshoeing, and skating and Michigan is terrific for outdoor activities year round. Within a 10 mile radius of my house I have over 16,000 acres of public parks with every outdoor activity imaginable available to me. Horse riding, skiing, running, biking, sailing, kayaking, golf, hiking, camping, etc. You name it I can be doing it (season permitting) within 30 minutes.
Try driving from Los Angeles to Chicago in a tiny car some time. Midwest and western united states there is a ton of space between locations. Trying to do that in a tiny car does not work.
I'm not sure I understand your argument. What about small cars makes them unsuitable for traveling long distances?
When I was in college, I owned a Toyota Tercel, a very small car. Drove everywhere with it, without a problem. I have driven from Michigan to Texas with it multiple times.
If anything they're better since they tend to get better gas mileage. Or you arguing they small cars are uncomfortable? Well, then that's a subjective thing that brings little to the discussion at hand.
And nothing that Detroit has to offer except being close to Canada would appeal to me, and that's just not enough.
I'm pretty sure you've never actually spent any time in Detroit or you'd realize what you just said is very ignorant. Yes Detroit has its problems but it's hardly the hell hole it is made out to be. There are excellent employers, plenty of entertainment within easy reach, great restaurants, and more. Plus you have easy access to the Great Lakes, Michigan and Canada which are all amazing. I could easily see myself living in downtown Detroit under the right circumstances. I live not far from Detroit as it is and I go downtown regularly. Like any big city it has its nicer areas and other areas you probably should steer away from. People go downtown all the time for sporting events (Lions, Tigers and Red Wings), cultural events (DIA), casinos, restaurants and more.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
This means our rights are NOT well enumerated, and some of those things you say are not a right could be.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
I feel bad for students studying IT at community colleges, especially in Detroit. Why aren't they be hired, instead of politicians asking to import foreign labor?
It's frustrating, because I want to be able to tell them that because of a shortage of IT workers, big companies are looking to hire and train them.
But they're not... IBM/Accenture/etc. would rather hire foreigners at lower rates than hire local community college students that understand the American language and culture perfectly.
Forget IBM/Accenture/etc.... now the local _politicians_ are saying that those students aren't going to get IT jobs because local foreigners are going to get them.
I understand that the local politicians are in a very tough spot, since the decisions that are dooming Detroit were made decades ago. With a shrinking population, imported high-income (therefore, high tax paying) labor seems like as good a decision as any, but, frankly, it's insulting to the local students.
Tell me that as a 18-year-old impressionable youth in Detroit, after hearing this article, you wouldn't think that a life of drugs and crime would be a better way to get out of poverty than IT.