Detroit Wants Its Own High-Tech Visa

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Detroit Wants Its Own High-Tech Visa

Posted by samzenpus on Monday January 27, 2014 @03:20AM from the fixing-the-D dept.

dcblogs writes "Detroit, a city in bankruptcy and dealing with a shrinking population, hopes to turn itself around with the help of 50,000 employment-based green cards. In exchange for the visa, an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time. The visas would be made available under the EB-2 visa category, a visa for advanced degree professionals or those deemed with 'exceptional ability' in the sciences, arts and business. The proposal was made by Michigan's governor, Rick Snyder. Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst at Economic Policy Institute, said Snyder would have more credibility on the issue if he were doing more to help workers in Detroit. In 2011, the state cut jobless benefits by six weeks to 20. 'I also think the federal government should be offering people in the U.S. some money and land in Detroit if they'll move there,' said Costa, or 'just offer it to people across the country who have advanced degrees.'"

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The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by Shoten · 2014-01-27 03:24 · Score: 5, Funny

...a familiar lifestyle for people from third-world countries with high crime, corrupt cops and crumbling infrastructure.

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1. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-01-27 03:30 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  The city has been terribly managed for decades. I'm not sure what ground Costa has on criticizing Governor Snyder here though.. the city was given years to clean up its act and didn't really do anything of note, so he only recently stepped in to get the city managed by competent people using Michigan's "emergency manager" laws. They city needs a rapid rise in tax base or a bailout.. since Americans aren't exactly flocking to Detroit (even though property is cheap and employment is available if you have skill) and bail out money isn't to be had, pleading for immigrant help isn't exactly off base. It's not even Snyder's original idea, this has been floated for awhile now.
2. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by mlts · 2014-01-27 03:33 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Portland suffered through this fate many years ago. There is one thing that will put Detroit back on the map, something California and Texas do not have...
  Fresh water. Chip plants need it, businesses require this to run. When the major aquifers dry up and make sunbelt areas extremely expensive to live in (barring an advance in desalination, and even then, trying to pump that water inland), Detroit, and Michigan in general, will be relevant again. No water worries, fairly stable terrain (no earthquakes), worst issue might be blizzards.
  I'd give Detroit a couple years for it to reach its nadir, because the one-two punch of a continual drought combined with the extreme populations trying to live in desert will eventually cause an exodus back to the northern climates, as that will be where the companies relocate and where the jobs will be.
3. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-01-27 03:55 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Who needs hippies when you are drowning in hipsters? (This is officially my 1000th and final hipster joke ever. Rejoice!)
  I was making hipster jokes before they were cool.
4. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by tripleevenfall · 2014-01-27 04:03 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's the Republicans' fault that Detroit is in the state that it's in?
  Detroit has had one-party Democrat rule for more than two generations.
5. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by tverbeek · 2014-01-27 04:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I don't know if Detroit will ever be "important" again, but Michigan as a whole has more going for it than former automotive plants, and "fresh water" only hints at it. That water's good for more than just drinking and industrial uses, after all: it's important for agriculture and has a whole lot of recreational potential too. The whole belt west of metro Detroit (and a bit to the north) is good for a variety of farming. North of that are countless forested lakes and rivers which are great for fishing and canoeing. And then there are the Great Lakes themselves, which have seasonal sandy beaches (think "California without the saltwater"), and are good for boating and also fishing. Lonely Planet listed Michigan's west coast and nearby Grand Rapids as their "top travel destination" for 2014, which is admittedly hype, but reflects well on the state's potential economic future, regardless of Detroit and the auto industry.
  
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6. Re: The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by kenh · 2014-01-27 05:01 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Republican politicians were neither 'the' nor 'a' reason Detroit was mis-managed. Literal decades after decades of single-party rule robbed the locals of any need for their politicians to defend/justify their actions, so they went off the rails in a spectacular fashion.
  The ONLY blame you can heap on Republicans in Detroit would be for letting the Democrats run the city by failing to win more elections... But are we really going to blame the loser of an election for the actions of the winner?
  
  --
  Ken
7. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by dcw3 · 2014-01-27 05:15 · Score: 3
  
  Lakes Michigan and Superior have seen a small drop over the last 20 years, which likely depends on overall precipitation. Others have not. From Wikipedia: The source of water levels in the lakes is tied to what was left by melting glaciers when the lakes took their present form. Annually, only about 1% is "new" water originating from rivers, precipitation, and groundwater springs that drain into the lakes. This is balanced by evaporation and drainage, making the level of the lakes historically constant.[10]
  As for pollution, do you have any references? I'd argue that the lakes have gotten cleaner since the 70s, but I don't have evidence other than my own visuals.
  Useful water level link below shows history back to the 1800s.
  http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data...
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
8. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by sjbe · 2014-01-27 05:33 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  You think the great lakes are inexhaustible fresh water?
  
  Inexhaustible? Nope. But they are vast and very few other places on earth have anything like them. The Great Lakes have around 84% of the surface fresh water in the US. Like any resource it needs careful tending but folks who don't live around the Great Lakes don't really grasp how big they are. They properly should be termed inland Seas. With the possible exception of the Mississippi river watershed there is no more important source of water in the entire US. It's no exaggeration to say that the economy of the US and Canada would be greatly diminished without them.
  
  Also, they are getting more and more polluted and more and more water is being removed each year
  Actually the lakes have been getting significantly cleaner for the past few decades. Had you spent any effort looking you would find copious evidence proving that fact. I've lived around the great lakes for most of my life so I've seen it first hand. Lake Erie was a lot more polluted when I was a child than it is today.
  Lake Michigan and Huron are historically low but it is still within the range of normal and has been more or less steady for the past several years. Water level in the lakes fluctuate by as much as several feet from year to year normally. People do divert water (particularly around Chicago) but the Great Lakes Compact will largely prevent any mass removal of water from the watershed.
9. Re:The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by penglust · 2014-01-27 05:49 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  So instead of using those powers to fix the issues preventing American workers from considering moving to Detroit you want to bring in immigrants who have no idea of the problems and force them to stay there or be deported. If it gets worse then send them home.
  
  This is at best a band aid on a gaping wound.
10. Re: The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by Rockoon · 2014-01-27 06:14 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  counter-balance to the Democrats that have allegedly managed to run Detroit into the ground...
  "allegedly" ???
  
  Its a fact that Detroit was run into the ground, and its also a fact that the Democrats ran the city for literally 5 contiguous decades.
  
  You seem to be hypothesizing that Detroit might have been run into the ground by people that werent making any of the decisions there, rather than the people that were. Interesting blindfold you have.
  
  --
  "His name was James Damore."
11. Re: The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by LWATCDR · 2014-01-27 06:29 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Combine this with Detroit being a one industry town that got hurt bad when that industry faced a downturn. Seattle used to have much the same problem in that Boeing was the big employer. When it had problems the city had problems.
  Detroit has a lot of problems.
  1. Corruption. The city government and unions are both corrupt and mutually reenforcing. Make Michigan a right to work state. The unions have not done a good job keeping people working.
  2. Crime. The level of crime in Detroit is several times the nation average and is a lot worse than San Francisco which also has an issue with Crime. Here is the comparison between Detroit and San Francisco http://www.areavibes.com/crime...
  The easy solution for Detroit would be a lot of money. Start tearing down parts of the city and building green spaces Keep expanding the people mover and M1 street car line for better transportation and extend them to the universities, the airport and so on. Fiber to the door every where, offer incentives for people to build homes and apartments. Do not forget the well light sidewalks and bike paths. The problem is all that takes money which Detroit does not have.
  
  --
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12. Re: The real point of what Detroit has to offer... by ebno-10db · 2014-01-27 08:42 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  People say that every time someone who isn't considered "tough on crime" gets elected, but the statistics often tell a different story. People say Giuliani did a great job of reducing crime, but the precipitious drop actually started under Dinkins (who also started a lot of the "broken windows" policies). The steep decline continued after Giuliani appointed Bratton PC, but then started to decrease after 2 years when Giuliani fired Bratton. Note that the LA crime rate started dropping faster after Bratton became PC there. Later Giuliani appointed Kerik the crook as PC, despite almost all advice being against it.
  Giuliani, like all politicians, takes credit for everything good during his administration, and denies responsibility for anything bad. If you want to know what led to NYC's decline in crime during that era, the objective evidence says it had little to do Giuliani. Rather the tree big factors are.
  1. Overall national drop in crime rate (the reasons for which are a major debate).
  2. Bratton
  3. Dinkins
Give Us Opportunity, Not More Mouths to Feed by CanHasDIY · 2014-01-27 03:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Here's the problem with importing more and more workers: They're going to get fucked by the Big Boys just like the rest of is. I have no illusions about this.
How about Dan Costa's idea? If the feds want Detroit to live, offer business grants to get people to open up shop there, give the existing population work (instead of just importing more people), and give them the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty.

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An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
1. Re:Give Us Opportunity, Not More Mouths to Feed by MickyTheIdiot · 2014-01-27 04:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The idea that big business=everything is bullshit and backward. Big business is not supporting life in the US any longer and hasn't for years.
  The idea is to make your city and town a place that isn't a hellhole for the creative. Stop giving tax abatements to huge corporations that are actually employing few workers and who are often seeing NEGATIVE taxation. Start giving some help to the small businesses instead of the big ones.
  Of course this takes deep thinking and common sense which are at all time lows in the USA right now.
Unemployment rate 17,7% by tompaulco · 2014-01-27 03:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

With an unemployment rate of 17.7%, it doesn't look to me like they need MORE people imported to look for work. Looks to me like they need to be spurring businesses to start there so that they can hire some of these people who are looking for work.
As we well know, 17.7% means that these are the number of people on the eligible list of unemployment benefits...which they just cut to 20 weeks. So, it doesn't include the number of people who never found a job while they were on unemployment and now have neither a job nor can collect unemployment.

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If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
1. Re:Unemployment rate 17,7% by ebrandsberg · 2014-01-27 03:40 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I think the idea is that if they have visas to hand out to companies, the companies will be willing to put offices in Detroit for those people to work in. From there, services will be needed from the lower-skill people in the area, think food service, etc. This will then eat into the 17.1% unemployment. The problem isn't the number of workers but the type and skill of the workers, and getting things back in balance. I'm not sure this is the right solution to the problem, but I am willing to consider that it may be A solution to the problem for now.
2. Re:Unemployment rate 17,7% by generic_screenname · 2014-01-27 03:56 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The unemployment rate varies by sector. Unemployment in manufacturing is very high for obvious reasons. Unemployment in sectors like IT is much lower, partly because it's so hard to convince talent to relocate to Detroit and/or stay in the area.
Colonialism??? by jplourde · 2014-01-27 03:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

Doesn't using the phrase "an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time" sound a lot like an indentured labour program? It seems awfully familiar to what the Brits did to/in India during the 1800s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system)
1. Re:Colonialism??? by ebno-10db · 2014-01-27 03:48 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Doesn't using the phrase "an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time" sound a lot like an indentured labour program?
  Yes. This whole idea is completely contrary to the American ideal of immigration. A permanent resident visa should is, should be, and always has been, for the entire country. You should no more be able to stop immigrants from moving anywhere in the country they want, than you should citizens. Something about the Constitution making this a united country, and the federal government controlling immigration.
Re:Glorious Detroit! by operagost · 2014-01-27 03:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

The Democratic Party should be the one imploding, not the GOP-- but the offer of free handouts is a tough one to campaign against. It's amazing how most failing cities have been under de facto on-party rule for decades, yet that party has managed to blame the other one for all its ills.

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Not just handouts - public employee unions by Anonymous Coward · 2014-01-27 03:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Look at how much of Democratic campaigns are funded by contributions from public employee unions.
We now have a government by the government for the government. AKA the Democratic Party.
Re:Why should Detroit get special treatment? by SerpentMage · 2014-01-27 03:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

You obviously don't know your own car makers do you? I grew up in North America, but live in Europe. Want to know a dirty little secret? I can get reliable low gas requirement AMERICAN cars in Europe. Around 1999 we bought a Jeep Wrangler and then took it to Canada. Since it was NORTH AMERICAN built we could import the car without problems. What was interesting was that the Jeep dealership who had to do some minor changes spent nearly 1.5 hours inspecting the car. We thought something was wrong and asked how come they took so long. Answer, "your Wrangler is Awesome it has so many efficiency features and electronics that I have never seen on sale here."
I recently had a discussion about this with an American and the problem is not the American car makers, but Americans. They want from their American car makers BIG FAT engines with BIG FAT chassis. Americans are not willing to go for the reliable low gas requirements cars because they are "wimpy" cars. The cars I drive here are American built and they are not wimpy. They might not have 600 HP, but who the frig cares since it is not that useful anyways. And even less useful in America...
Go figure, eh!

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"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
They're *educated* foreigners by Slashdot+Parent · 2014-01-27 03:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

How are you going to convince someone with an advanced degree to settle in effing Detroit? They are going to want to escape the poverty of the third world!
The problem facing Detroit is not a lack of people with advanced degrees. The problem is decades of life under a corrupt mayor, high crime, crushing taxes, over-regulation, and shitty weather.
The situation is improving a lot lately, but it has a long way to go. You can't solve this overnight by issuing a bunch of visas. Detroit needs to get serious about redevelopment, crime prevention, and attracting business. Once there are good jobs there, you'll have plenty of Americans with advanced degrees going there. I don't have to remind you that we're in the midst of a "jobless recovery".
All of these things are happening already. It's just a slow process to undo decades of mismanagement.

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1. Re:They're *educated* foreigners by stewbee · 2014-01-27 04:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I grew up in what most people would call Detroit. More specifically, in the Detroit metropolitan area. I left Michigan in 2004 when I finished college, and I have an advanced degree (MSEE). I actually have started to apply to jobs back in Michigan. There are a few reasons for this.
  
  1. There are a lot of jobs there right now. Seriously, go to monster and search for engineering jobs in Detroit and Ann Arbor.
  2. The cost of living is ridiculously low. We are talking great 3-4 bedroom houses in nice areas for around 250k. In most tech job locations around the country (Boston, Silicon Valley, etc), this doesn't buy you squat. other things are much cheaper too, like food and gas compared to where I am living now.
  3. I still have family there, so it would be nice to be able to make a quick drive to see my relatives.
  
  Now that said, there is certainly a certain type of person they are looking for in these jobs that makes getting past the HR filters difficult. Many of open positions are looking for people that have had automotive experience before, which I don't have. So in spite of having many of the other qualifications, I think that I will have a difficult time for this reason alone.
  
  And I hate to have to say this over and over again to people, but Detroit is just one city in the area. While I agree that Detroit has been mismanaged, the rest of the area is quite nice and look forward to moving back someday.
What am I missing? by wcrowe · 2014-01-27 03:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Am I missing something here? Who are these 50,000 people supposed to work for? The article vaguely mentions them, "opening businesses", but I have to ask, open businesesses doing what?

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Proverbs 21:19
Escape route to Canada by Anonymous Coward · 2014-01-27 04:23 · Score: 4, Funny

I think Costa missed a big selling point for Detroit - proximity to Canada. If things keep getting worse instead of better, you're only a bridge away from Windsor, Ontario, Canada! Mexicans upset with low employment and poverty go North and cross the border for a better in the States. That same option is available to us! Southern Ontario has the same climate as Detroit, nicer people, generic drugs, and way less gun and violent crime. Sounds like a solution to me!
(The thing is - even I don't know if know if I'm joking or not...)
Detroit Metro (not City) is a nice place to live by sjbe · 2014-01-27 05:17 · Score: 5, Informative

actually we can do it now with desalination, no advancement really needed.
Not economically. Industrial scale desalinization is still far too expensive to be practical in most places.

", Detroit, and Michigan in general, will be relevant again"
nope, never happen. Crappy weather, high crime, republican stripping away representation for all but about 50,000 people, no industry... nothing really.
I have news for you. The Detroit Metro area is relevant NOW and has been for a long time. Don't confuse Detroit City with the greater Detroit metropolitan area. Detroit City has its problems and they'll take a while to solve but relatively few people live and work there. About 680,000 people live in Detroit City versus about 3,700,000 in the suburbs. Oakland county immediately to the north of Detroit City is one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the entire US, has a AAA bond rating (the highest possible) and 60% of the Fortune 500 have facilities in the county. It's a genuinely nice place to live - I should know because I live there. When most people say they are "from Detroit" what most really mean is that they live in Detroit Metro, ie the suburbs.
No industry? Hah! Michigan is still the beating heart of manufacturing in the US. The amount of manufacturing that goes on here is astonishing even with the auto industry problems. And it isn't just making cars. Not by a long shot. The number of engineers and high tech jobs here is only exceeded by 3 or 4 cities in the entire US. (do you have any idea how much technology goes into making cars?)
Oh and the weather is only "crappy" for part of the year if you can't handle snow. Spring, summer and fall in Michigan are gorgeous and so is winter once you get outdoors and move around. Personally I like to go skiing, snowshoeing, and skating and Michigan is terrific for outdoor activities year round. Within a 10 mile radius of my house I have over 16,000 acres of public parks with every outdoor activity imaginable available to me. Horse riding, skiing, running, biking, sailing, kayaking, golf, hiking, camping, etc. You name it I can be doing it (season permitting) within 30 minutes.
Shut up unless you've actually lived in Detroit by sjbe · 2014-01-27 05:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

And nothing that Detroit has to offer except being close to Canada would appeal to me, and that's just not enough.
I'm pretty sure you've never actually spent any time in Detroit or you'd realize what you just said is very ignorant. Yes Detroit has its problems but it's hardly the hell hole it is made out to be. There are excellent employers, plenty of entertainment within easy reach, great restaurants, and more. Plus you have easy access to the Great Lakes, Michigan and Canada which are all amazing. I could easily see myself living in downtown Detroit under the right circumstances. I live not far from Detroit as it is and I go downtown regularly. Like any big city it has its nicer areas and other areas you probably should steer away from. People go downtown all the time for sporting events (Lions, Tigers and Red Wings), cultural events (DIA), casinos, restaurants and more.
1. Re:Shut up unless you've actually lived in Detroit by naris · 2014-01-27 07:44 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I have lived in Detroit and paying an extra tax so that I have no police, no fire department, no streetlights, no security, no infrastructure and unplowed streets is just not appealing. Especially when you can live 8 or more miles north to live in a better area without the drawbacks or the extra tax.