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Detroit Wants Its Own High-Tech Visa
dcblogs writes "Detroit, a city in bankruptcy and dealing with a shrinking population, hopes to turn itself around with the help of 50,000 employment-based green cards. In exchange for the visa, an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time. The visas would be made available under the EB-2 visa category, a visa for advanced degree professionals or those deemed with 'exceptional ability' in the sciences, arts and business. The proposal was made by Michigan's governor, Rick Snyder. Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst at Economic Policy Institute, said Snyder would have more credibility on the issue if he were doing more to help workers in Detroit. In 2011, the state cut jobless benefits by six weeks to 20. 'I also think the federal government should be offering people in the U.S. some money and land in Detroit if they'll move there,' said Costa, or 'just offer it to people across the country who have advanced degrees.'"
...a familiar lifestyle for people from third-world countries with high crime, corrupt cops and crumbling infrastructure.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Here's the problem with importing more and more workers: They're going to get fucked by the Big Boys just like the rest of is. I have no illusions about this.
How about Dan Costa's idea? If the feds want Detroit to live, offer business grants to get people to open up shop there, give the existing population work (instead of just importing more people), and give them the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Does the federal government own land in Detroit?
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
doing what? Haven't most people left because there aren't enough jobs? You want to pay off your debts, charge people an exit tax.
It seems like a default position for state and municipal politicians to primarily look at how the federal government can help them. If anybody should pay people to come to Detroit, shouldn't it be Detroit or Michigan?
The visa issue has to be federal, of course.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
With an unemployment rate of 17.7%, it doesn't look to me like they need MORE people imported to look for work. Looks to me like they need to be spurring businesses to start there so that they can hire some of these people who are looking for work.
As we well know, 17.7% means that these are the number of people on the eligible list of unemployment benefits...which they just cut to 20 weeks. So, it doesn't include the number of people who never found a job while they were on unemployment and now have neither a job nor can collect unemployment.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Doesn't using the phrase "an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time" sound a lot like an indentured labour program? It seems awfully familiar to what the Brits did to/in India during the 1800s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system)
Amen.
The concept of "company town" gets a spit and polish for the 21st century. Good job repackaging yesterday's failed concepts, Detroit!
The Democratic Party should be the one imploding, not the GOP-- but the offer of free handouts is a tough one to campaign against. It's amazing how most failing cities have been under de facto on-party rule for decades, yet that party has managed to blame the other one for all its ills.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
They should build walls around the city so their remaining citizens cannot leave.
Look at how much of Democratic campaigns are funded by contributions from public employee unions.
We now have a government by the government for the government. AKA the Democratic Party.
You obviously don't know your own car makers do you? I grew up in North America, but live in Europe. Want to know a dirty little secret? I can get reliable low gas requirement AMERICAN cars in Europe. Around 1999 we bought a Jeep Wrangler and then took it to Canada. Since it was NORTH AMERICAN built we could import the car without problems. What was interesting was that the Jeep dealership who had to do some minor changes spent nearly 1.5 hours inspecting the car. We thought something was wrong and asked how come they took so long. Answer, "your Wrangler is Awesome it has so many efficiency features and electronics that I have never seen on sale here."
I recently had a discussion about this with an American and the problem is not the American car makers, but Americans. They want from their American car makers BIG FAT engines with BIG FAT chassis. Americans are not willing to go for the reliable low gas requirements cars because they are "wimpy" cars. The cars I drive here are American built and they are not wimpy. They might not have 600 HP, but who the frig cares since it is not that useful anyways. And even less useful in America...
Go figure, eh!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
How are you going to convince someone with an advanced degree to settle in effing Detroit? They are going to want to escape the poverty of the third world!
The problem facing Detroit is not a lack of people with advanced degrees. The problem is decades of life under a corrupt mayor, high crime, crushing taxes, over-regulation, and shitty weather.
The situation is improving a lot lately, but it has a long way to go. You can't solve this overnight by issuing a bunch of visas. Detroit needs to get serious about redevelopment, crime prevention, and attracting business. Once there are good jobs there, you'll have plenty of Americans with advanced degrees going there. I don't have to remind you that we're in the midst of a "jobless recovery".
All of these things are happening already. It's just a slow process to undo decades of mismanagement.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Maybe they can offer 40 acres and a mule to move there.
There are about 150,000 EB-2 visas given out every year. 1/3 of those are going to go to Detroit? Maybe they'll increase the total by 50k just for Detroit, that would still be 1/4 of the granted EB-2 visas. There is tremendous demand for these, and someone (a US business) usually pays for the substantial legal bills for the application. The people who get these visas don't grow on trees, it's probably the most competitive one you can go for, depending on where you're from. I've known experienced scientists who haven't qualified for it.
They should talk to Bank Of America, or Citi
They have cards with the new chip technology to prevent fraud
I know this is an unfamiliar concept in the US, but the people in Detroit are in need and require help from the rest of the country. Their city structure is designed for a much larger population. Now the city must undergo a large transformation. First, it must be determined what the future for Detroit should be, otherwise it will end in chaos. Second, if the government and police are corrupt, this corruption must be ended. Third, initiatives to support start-ups and new businesses must be launched to support an initial growth impulse. To do all this, the state and the USA itself must support these steps. We had similar problems in North-Rhine-Westphalia and in East-Germany. In such situation you have two options: Let them solve their problem alone which will result in emigration of the skilled people to other regions or countries. The remaining people are mostly less skilled and educated, as their mobility is lower. Furthermore, women have a higher mobility than men, which will result in a men surplus, which often cause more violence.
From a civilizing view, this would be a catastrophe. It would also be disruptive to the state structure and therefor disruptive for any democratic society. As a state is a relevant construct for capitalism and the construction and coordination of a society, it is important to support Detroit.
Am I missing something here? Who are these 50,000 people supposed to work for? The article vaguely mentions them, "opening businesses", but I have to ask, open businesesses doing what?
Proverbs 21:19
Help people get a new start in another city with more job opportunities, don't bring in more people when unemployment there is so high.
---------
There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
There's a lot of decay in Detroit, so much so that it's unattractive to new businesses. Even if you get get more workers into Detroit, what would they do for a living? Plow down more blocks of vacant, dilapidated houses? As has been said here, the unemployment rate in Detroit is in the high teens and if there's ever going to be a re-birth, what has to happen is that businesses need to be able to move back into Detroit and that requires a solid government and a solid infrastructure otherwise you may just as well bulldoze the rest down.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Ok.. provide the citation!
Just because it is contradictory in your brain doesn't mean that is what reality is.
Really... go ahead. Show the citation that unemployment benefits increases unemployment. You won't do it because the data show exactly the opposite!
I think Costa missed a big selling point for Detroit - proximity to Canada. If things keep getting worse instead of better, you're only a bridge away from Windsor, Ontario, Canada! Mexicans upset with low employment and poverty go North and cross the border for a better in the States. That same option is available to us! Southern Ontario has the same climate as Detroit, nicer people, generic drugs, and way less gun and violent crime. Sounds like a solution to me!
(The thing is - even I don't know if know if I'm joking or not...)
At some point, if you can't find a job, you need for the greater good to settle for what you can find. For example, after the construction bubble popped in housing, should we just keep construction workers on permanent unemployment? Or should we encourage them to do something different with their lives?
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
This isn't a natural disaster. This is the result of *decades* of mismanagement and corruption. If the system is so broken that is cannot be repaired, and fighting the system is an unwinnable battle, your only viable solution is to leave. And that's what you're seeing here. People are leaving Detroit en masse.
... regardless of how poorly the locals are running it.
Detroit is a city, but it is far from being an essential resource. If it imploded tomorrow, I doubt it would be more than an interesting news tidbit for the rest of the nation.
Finally, it's clear that you don't comprehend freedom. Freedom includes the ability to royally screw yourself by making one bad decision after another. Detroit has made many bad decisions over the years, and it is completely outside the pervue of the US Federal government to step in and mandate that the rest of the nation support a city or to dictate how a city is run
Essentially what they're admitting is that they cannot attract enough tax-paying US residents to Detroit. Therefore, they need to look elsewhere for people who are willing to work hard enough to generate the necessary tax revenues needed pay for the services which current residents want and to rescue Detroit from their woes.
This is the ultimate representation of the failure of a community.
I suppose letting people starve to death would up the percentage of people employed as the would be immune from starvation! it's a solution alright, not to mention the uptick in work at the morgues! And disease, why all the disease that will spread from those wretched urchins will absolutely drive medical costs through the roof! What's wrong with a sinking ship, as long as you're in first class, anyway?
From a civilizing view, what Detroit needs is a neutron bomb dropped on it.
but the offer of free handouts is a tough one to campaign against.
Yes, it is rather surprising how enticing food is when you are unemployed at home with kids, no work and no prospect of employment. Funny that.
The GOP could come with proposals such as retraining and plans to move people out of economically depressed areas which are unlikely to recover, or they could sit in a posh country club and rally against the 43% moochers.
If you do so, just don't come and act surprised then that we don't vote for your invective and vindictive party.
Yeah, because the only thing keeping people out of Detroit now is high land prices!
Ken
Actually that is wrong. There are reasons to have large big cars in the US. Frankly we are a giant country. Try driving from Los Angeles to Chicago in a tiny car some time. Midwest and western united states there is a ton of space between locations. Trying to do that in a tiny car does not work. As far as mileage goes the US car makers are to blame. We want fuel efficient cars, even with gas prices in the US two to three times better than the EU we still do a ton more driving and a fuel efficient car would be a god send. But we get messed over on fuel efficiency. We got the smart car and I thought "this will be great. Those little things get great mileage in Europe". What we got was not what you get in the EU. It had worse gas mileage than a VW Jetta. We don't get the nice Diesels you get there. Shoot, our first Hybrid car had worse mileage than our diesel cars. We don't want to have gas guzzlers but if we are going to live with them we might as well be comfortable in them.
Beside freedom people have also other rights, which you seem to have forgotten. Anyway, the people still living in Detroit do so, because they cannot just leave. Either these people have a job and not the prospect of getting one elsewhere or they have not the resources to move. So while the administration in Detroit messed up, the people still living their have to pay for it. On a side note, there is something called compassion. You cannot let them die, just because they are unable to solve their present crisis. This is pretty much inhuman.
And as the USA claim always to stay up for human rights:
- Freedom (to go where you want, to work want you want, to pray to your favorite deity, own something, etc.)
- Protection
- Housing (you have the right to live somewhere)
- Work (you have to right to be provided with work or something to do)
- Education
- Health
http://www.un.org/en/documents...
So in essence, even if you have made a long list of wrong decisions and failed miserably, you still have these rights. And you deserve to be helped. If you are a criminal, your rights, especially freedom will be limited, because you are such a big disruption to other people rights.
I came here to comment the same thing. "An immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time." I don't see how else that sentence could be interpreted -- is that not the very definition of slavery? Sure, one could argue that the wage these workers would make could classify their situation as simple employment, but even slaves receive bread and water.
sig: sauer
What is a catastrophe is that they haven't just foreclosed on the whole thing and sell it off. How much longer do we have to watch it linger. Pull the life support and let the damn thing die.
Mod parent up!
When I lived in the Netherlands I bought a Ford Focus. Far from being a "cheap" car, it cost 30,000 EUR, and was BEAUTIFUL (and definitely comparable in driving ability to a BMW 3 series or other similar).
My friends from the US were floored when they took a ride in it...
For any company I would say yes let it die. But in this case the city was fucked up by industry and the local administration and now the people of Detroit have to suffer. So yes they have to start over, but someone has to help them. Furthermore, a totally abandoned Detroit would be a environmental hazard. Someone has to clean up.
Let's study your response.
It appears you are arguing I oppose all social programs. With no evidence presented to support that, this is a straw man.
In your next statement, you appear to defend the Democrats by complaining that the GOP isn't doing anything except railing against "43% moochers". My original argument was based on the fact that these cities are ruled by the other party, so expecting a party not in power to take action is unreasonable. You also seem to demand that they take specific actions which would require large amounts of public money and probably infringements on property rights, which is not only a false dilemma but also in opposition to the very objectives the GOP claims to have.
In your last statement, you assume that I'm a member of the Republican party. I am not. I have voted for people of various parties in the last few elections.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
This country is addicted to free or cheap labor. There are plenty of people that can fill these jobs, the problem is that most of these people are not will to work for the low wages that they want to pay.
actually we can do it now with desalination, no advancement really needed.
Not economically. Industrial scale desalinization is still far too expensive to be practical in most places.
", Detroit, and Michigan in general, will be relevant again"
nope, never happen. Crappy weather, high crime, republican stripping away representation for all but about 50,000 people, no industry... nothing really.
I have news for you. The Detroit Metro area is relevant NOW and has been for a long time. Don't confuse Detroit City with the greater Detroit metropolitan area. Detroit City has its problems and they'll take a while to solve but relatively few people live and work there. About 680,000 people live in Detroit City versus about 3,700,000 in the suburbs. Oakland county immediately to the north of Detroit City is one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the entire US, has a AAA bond rating (the highest possible) and 60% of the Fortune 500 have facilities in the county. It's a genuinely nice place to live - I should know because I live there. When most people say they are "from Detroit" what most really mean is that they live in Detroit Metro, ie the suburbs.
No industry? Hah! Michigan is still the beating heart of manufacturing in the US. The amount of manufacturing that goes on here is astonishing even with the auto industry problems. And it isn't just making cars. Not by a long shot. The number of engineers and high tech jobs here is only exceeded by 3 or 4 cities in the entire US. (do you have any idea how much technology goes into making cars?)
Oh and the weather is only "crappy" for part of the year if you can't handle snow. Spring, summer and fall in Michigan are gorgeous and so is winter once you get outdoors and move around. Personally I like to go skiing, snowshoeing, and skating and Michigan is terrific for outdoor activities year round. Within a 10 mile radius of my house I have over 16,000 acres of public parks with every outdoor activity imaginable available to me. Horse riding, skiing, running, biking, sailing, kayaking, golf, hiking, camping, etc. You name it I can be doing it (season permitting) within 30 minutes.
It's only four months, not six.
Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
offer business grants to get people to open up shop there, give the existing population work (instead of just importing more people), and give them the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty.
More importantly, give them SMALL business grants, so that Detroit develops a very diverse economy, and you have lots of 2, 3, 10, 50 employee companies that are providing a diversity of services. Even better, give priority to non-franchises so the money stays in the local economy (and the country, for that matter, instead of getting shipped off to a Cayman holding company.) Bring back the bakers, the shoe shops, the florists, etc.
The last thing Detroit needs is another mono-industry or mono-company economy. That's how damn near every 'boom town' gets burned...they start catering to one company or industry, and become the city equivalent of codependent. The point of a city is to be a good place to live, not a good place to work...
Please help metamoderate.
Sweet, I've always wanted Robocop to be real.
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
Want Detroit to be sold to Ohio or Canada. Please can we just make that entire armpit of the state go away?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
... but only in the People Republic of California. At least, the weather's nice there.
There's a lot of decay in Detroit, so much so that it's unattractive to new businesses.
Actually lots of businesses see Detroit as long term attractive. There are numerous people like Dan Gilbert who are buying up property left and right and moving businesses downtown. You can get property REALLY cheap and make a killing if you know what you are doing. There is a LOT of opportunity in Detroit City for those who are entrepreneurial. I have relatives who just opened up a coffee shop and others who have restaurants in downtown Detroit. It's a terrific place to do business.
Even if you get get more workers into Detroit, what would they do for a living?
How about go to work for General Motors (their headquarters and much engineering are downtown), or Compuware, or Quicken Loans, or American Axle or Ernst & Young or PriceWaterhouseCoopers, or Blue Cross or HP Enterprise Services, or many others. There are jobs in law, finance, medicine, biomedical research, engineering, software and marketing. Good, high paying jobs.
Plow down more blocks of vacant, dilapidated houses?
Already happening. Detroit City used to have a lot more people than it does not. Much of the land is going to get re-purposed in the coming years. Yeah, it'll take quite a while to finish the job but they've already started.
I would vote GOP if I had the chance to.
Try driving from Los Angeles to Chicago in a tiny car some time. Midwest and western united states there is a ton of space between locations. Trying to do that in a tiny car does not work.
I'm not sure I understand your argument. What about small cars makes them unsuitable for traveling long distances?
When I was in college, I owned a Toyota Tercel, a very small car. Drove everywhere with it, without a problem. I have driven from Michigan to Texas with it multiple times.
If anything they're better since they tend to get better gas mileage. Or you arguing they small cars are uncomfortable? Well, then that's a subjective thing that brings little to the discussion at hand.
"What about the 20+ million unemployed US citizens?"
the GOP says, "fuck em"
Until people get off their asses and votes these entitled assholes out of office that are afraid of upsetting their rich donors by calling them the scumbags they really are, nothing will change.
I'm not anti republican, I'm anti GOP, those rich scumbag protecting assholes are NOT republicans.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
"Snyder would have more credibility on the issue if he were doing more to help workers in Detroit. In 2011, the state cut jobless benefits by six weeks to 20."
Paying unemployment is not helping workers, by definition.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
It appears you are arguing I oppose all social programs.
Huh? I was talking about the republican party, not you.
you appear to defend the Democrats by complaining that the GOP
Huh^2. I'm simply pointing out why people don't vote republican in spite of obvious failings of the democratic party in Detroit. This justifies why people voting Democrat, it doesn't justify democratic policies in Detroit.
You also seem to demand that they take specific actions which would require large amounts of public money and probably infringements on property rights,
Right, like they have never done anything like that (defense spending, cough, subsidies to oil industry, subsidies to agricultural conglomerates).
Reality is that todays GOP only remembers the deficit and fiscal probity when it comes to helping people in need. But when it comes to giving massive tax breaks to the wealthy all those financial considerations go out the window and they open the deficit taps.
Yet simpletons fall for the deficit rhetoric in spite of the actual voting record of the GOP in congress and White House.
And nothing that Detroit has to offer except being close to Canada would appeal to me, and that's just not enough.
I'm pretty sure you've never actually spent any time in Detroit or you'd realize what you just said is very ignorant. Yes Detroit has its problems but it's hardly the hell hole it is made out to be. There are excellent employers, plenty of entertainment within easy reach, great restaurants, and more. Plus you have easy access to the Great Lakes, Michigan and Canada which are all amazing. I could easily see myself living in downtown Detroit under the right circumstances. I live not far from Detroit as it is and I go downtown regularly. Like any big city it has its nicer areas and other areas you probably should steer away from. People go downtown all the time for sporting events (Lions, Tigers and Red Wings), cultural events (DIA), casinos, restaurants and more.
High tech companies need HIGHLY skilled workers. Most of the unemployed autoworkers in Detroit are not highly skilled.
Detroit Metro has a HUGE supply of highly skilled engineers and other high tech workers. There are only 3-4 cities in the entire US with more high tech jobs than around Metro Detroit. The problem is that these folks are already employed out in the suburbs were about 5/6 of the population lives. There are a surprising number of companies moving to downtown Detroit and they are bringing workers with them.
Took a 7000+ mile road trip around the country in about 16 days.... in a Chevy Aveo. Was more than comfortable, held up fine, and handled the highway speeds and mountain passes without a hitch.
People just *think* they need a massive car to drive around.
Seastead this.
Detroit has a corruption problem, regardless of political party. The only reason the politicians in Detroit are Democrat is that the African-American population votes overwhelmingly Democrat. If they voted Republican, we'd have the same assholes running for office but they would be R instead of D. Cronyism and corruption transcend party and the jerks in Detroit are opportunists of the highest order.
And as the USA claim always to stay up for human rights: ... [un.org]
Here's one of your bigger problems: we do believe in human rights, but we don't define them the same way the UN does. In particular, our background and beliefs reflect negative rights (freedom from interference by others) rather than positive rights (the right to goods or services which others in turn have an obligation to supply—slavery by any other name).
So, applying this to the situation at hand, we believe that people living in Detroit have the right to leave—no one has the right to hold them there—but not that anyone has any (legal) obligation to help them do so. People have the right to work—if two people choose to enter an employer-employee relationship under mutually agreeable terms, no one has the right to step in and prevent it—but not that anyone is obligated to offer any particular person a job. And so on for housing, education, health care... you are free to seek these for yourself, without interference, alone or working together with other like-minded individuals, but no one else is obligated to provide them for you.
Lest this seem callous, keep in mind that this is only the legal side. Socially, the same groups which most closely adhere to the traditional American values of liberty, independence and self-reliance are also the ones which have historically done the most to support those who find themselves in need of assistance, both privately and through donations to private-sector charitable organizations. The more personal the assistance, the more effective it is at restoring the recipient's status as an equal and effective member of society, as opposed to remaining forever dependent on public handouts. The distinction is important psychologically; an impersonal entitlement does nothing to boost your confidence or encourage you to get back on your feet so you can repay the favor, whereas private assistance means that someone has chosen to take an interest in you and believes that you are worth helping.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
No, our rights are well enumerated, starting with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
You do not have a right to protection.
You do not have a right to housing.
You do not have a right to employment.
You do not have a right to education.
You do not have a right to health.
You have a right to pursue all of these things, but you are not entitled to them. If you choose to be employed, you need to earn that employment. No business is obligated to hire you simply because you are a wonderful person. Further, you may choose to be unemployed, in which case the State is not obligated to support you to your satisfaction. We have programs in place to support people who become unemployed due to no fault of their own, but these are transitional programs, not lifestyles.
You do have a right to speak up about bad and corrupt government.
You do have a right to vote.
You do have a right to participate in government, at multiple levels.
As for compassion, I do know there will be victims of this situation. However, the vast majority of Detroit residents have been tolerating this disaster of a city for decades, and are now upset that the fairytale they have been spoon-fed isn't coming to fruition. I have trouble being sympathetic for folks who trot mindlessly down a well-marked dead-end road and get upset when the road ends.
Could you list some of those features?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
This means our rights are NOT well enumerated, and some of those things you say are not a right could be.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
I had read that somewhere in... Spain? They had a much better idea. If 5 people (or so, sketchy on details) would get together and form a business, the government would give them 3-5? years of their unemployment as a lump sum.... Here you go, go start a business. Oddly enough, that region had a LOT of co-op/small businesses.
Importing more people to Detroit is a stupid idea. Why not foster the entrepreneurial spirit of the people already there?
Homesteading is another good idea. Give away free houses (instead of bulldozing them) to people who start businesses.
Oh wait, those two completely awesome ideas are SOCIALIST!!!! Can't have that.....
You of all people should not be talking about logical fallacies, as your post claiming them are full of them, starting with the assumption he is talking about you directly, when he clearly is talking about the GOP in general.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
Only in America do people think Mustangs are "sports cars".
It seems to me that instead of trying to revitalize a dying city no one wants to live in and that doesn't have much decent industry left, what we need to do is bring these people to the jobs. There's lots of agricultural jobs in the southern states, for instance, which we have Mexican immigrants working at. Why not ship unemployed Americans down there and let them have those jobs instead?
At this point it's way past compassion and well into enabling.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
There's a lot of agricultural jobs in the south that are done by Mexican immigrants and guest workers. Why not move the Detroit residents down there to do them instead? Also, there's lots of other minimum-wage jobs in cities around the country that have been taken over by immigrants (frequently illegal immigrants); why not put these citizens to work at these jobs instead? Why are our politicians and various liberal groups on the "comprehensive immigration reform" (amnesty) bandwagon, and giving out all kinds of free government benefits to these immigrants, while our own people are suffering and unemployed?
I used the term "free handouts", which he translated into "any and all welfare programs" and then implied that I was a Republican, which I was not.
It seems you missed the nuance.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
He made no such implications...You assumed he was talking about you, however every use of the word you in his post seems to be directed generally at the GOP, or some other third party. It seems you over thought his post.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
The term "right" has been abused over the years to the point that most people would equate the following two statements as peers:
- I have the right to participate in representative government.
- I have the right to eat Cheetos in my bed.
In the context of this discussion, the right in question is freedom - freedom to secure housing, freedom to seek education, freedom to protect yourself. The State does not have an obligation to fix your bad decisions, nor does it have the authority to do so (because that would infringe on your personal freedom.)
So while you have a "right" (aka "are free") to eat Cheetos in your bed, expecting the State to provide the Cheetos and the bed is ridiculous. You are, however, free to obtain them yourself.
Secondly you, yourself, are abusing the word right.. You have a right to secure housing, you just do not have a right to have it given to you, meaning the government should not be allowed to make your house less secure for some reason. As for protection, it was one of the reasons the US was founded..
Just because you have a right does not mean it is something that has to be given to you, just means the government does not have the right to take it away from you, or infringe on it. For example having the freedom of speech does not mean the government is obligated to buy you a podium to stand at and speak, just that it cannot block access to the podium you want to speak at.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
I'd rather move to The Congo.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I feel bad for students studying IT at community colleges, especially in Detroit. Why aren't they be hired, instead of politicians asking to import foreign labor?
It's frustrating, because I want to be able to tell them that because of a shortage of IT workers, big companies are looking to hire and train them.
But they're not... IBM/Accenture/etc. would rather hire foreigners at lower rates than hire local community college students that understand the American language and culture perfectly.
Forget IBM/Accenture/etc.... now the local _politicians_ are saying that those students aren't going to get IT jobs because local foreigners are going to get them.
I understand that the local politicians are in a very tough spot, since the decisions that are dooming Detroit were made decades ago. With a shrinking population, imported high-income (therefore, high tax paying) labor seems like as good a decision as any, but, frankly, it's insulting to the local students.
Tell me that as a 18-year-old impressionable youth in Detroit, after hearing this article, you wouldn't think that a life of drugs and crime would be a better way to get out of poverty than IT.
Detroit's problems can't be fixed by just saying "Oh, the poor people, let's throw billions of dollars at them." Detroit's problems are like the problems of a meth addict. You can't help the meth addict by giving him money for more meth. You have to get him off the meth first -- which means, he has to want to get off the meth; if he wants to keep doing meth, sad to say, there is no help for him. That's just grim reality
Helping the people of Detroit is going to require fixing Detroit's endemic problems, but there's no significant constituencey in Detroit for fixing the problems. Fixing the problems are going to be masively unpopular in Detroit, resulting in either abject failure of the attempt, or constant shrieks of "That un-Democratic!!"
Oh, please. My wife, daughter, and I drove between Missouri and New York multiple times in a Mazda Protege. I'm 6'0" tall and I had plenty of legroom to make the 18 hour drive comfortably.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
of what was being said in the article. They want to offer 50000 visas to foreign workers. Do you honestly think that they will pay these guys to "live and work in Detroid for an undetermined amount of time" the same way that they would an American worker? They want cheap labor, that is all. That is how they are going to try to draw business back into that area. It's not about Democrat or Republican, it's about corrupt and ignorant management of that city.
This sounds like they just want to bring back slavery.
Why not offer incentives to bring American workers to the area?
I the same vein anyplace with average temperatures in the 80's for any more than a week or two at a time isn't some place that I really want to live. But we all do what we need to get by. The weather is one of the last considerations when I pick a place to live. Cost of living and employment being the top concerns for me, with quality of schools after that. So far it always seems to be one of those situations where you can pick two of the three while all abandoning hope for the third.
I'd suggest:
Continue to downsize Detroit city limits. Reduce operating costs.
Employ locals for demolition and cleanup work
Clean up the town zone by zone
Clean out government corruption
Reinvent - attract new business with tax incentives. There is no going back to the old model.
and govmint. 'cause having several hundred thousand jobs go overseas (and to Mexico, thanks NAFTA!) and then have to support a city with millions jobless while real wages plummeted for 40 years certainly had no impact whatsoever...
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No, but the declaration is seen by the government as being part of the body of natural laws that include it and the constitution.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
We don't get the nice Diesels you get there.
We don't? Is the diesel Jetta that I'm driving, and that is consistently getting 43-44 MPG on the highway, a figment of my imagination?
The Dems didn't help. You see, NAFTA pretty much wrecked what little was left of the blue collar industry there was. The Dems still supported it though, so there's that. The difference was the Reps basically said "Adapt or Die in a Fire" where the Dems wanted social programs to ease the pain.
:(
There's other stuff the Reps did on a National level that hurt Detroit. See, that's sorta the problem Detroit has. They're a victim of outsourcing, off shoring, and a geneneral attact on the the middle class in America. There was a name for it back in the 90s: "Cheap Labor Conservatives". Sort of a response to "Tax and Spend Liberal". It's not as catchy though....
That's the trouble with Liberalism. It's complex answers to complex problems. It can't compete with Conservative ideology because it's not an ideology per se, just the desire to _do_ something instead of leaving everything to the "invisible hand"...
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Detroit went to hell when the Auto Industry moved to Japan/China/Mexico. Sure, there's mismanagement, but you get that everywhere (Silicon Valley, I'm lookin' at you). What _specifically_ could the Dems in Detroit do when their entire tax base lost their livelihoods and the 1%ers started cutting wages like mad? I guess they coulda done like West Virginia and cut environmental safety regs left/right. Only I hear you can't drink the water...
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Generally speaking, such programs translate to a conditional permanent residence permit that is eventually replaced with an unconditional one, after some period of time. For example, this is how it works for people who get a green card by marrying a citizen - it's a full-fledged green card in all respects, save that it is conditional on the continuation of marriage. If you are not divorced in two years, you can apply for and receive an unrestricted green card.
This is not slavery, because a holder of such a green card always has an option of backing out from the deal at any time. Of course, this would also mean that he can't stay in the country (well, unless he found some alternative means to obtain legal status).
The industrial model on which Detroit was based is obsolete, there is no reason to spend vast sums to remove obsolete infrastructure when greenfield locations in States with better climates are cheap, and the geographic advantages Detroit had many decades ago are gone.
It is perfectly reasonable to shrink Detroit, demolish obsolete housing stock and bury onsite, then leave unsupportable areas unsupported.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I think it can work as has been shown in the Scandinavian countries. For example, Norway has the second highest GDP per capita after Luxembourg and is the second wealthiest country in monetary value. Large industries are also controlled by the government. Higher education is free.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...
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...forgot the unsustainably high, 3rd world tax levels part.
You are free to leave at any time, you just move back to India (or wherever). You can't take the incentive and then walk away and use the incentive to start a life in California. That's slavery like a coupon is slavery.
If you want to use that coupon, you can only do so at Target. Slavery!!!
Learn to love Alaska
You can put money into schools in Detroit and create Detroit-native high tech workers. That is actually the responsibility of the Detroit-area governments. No innovation is necessary.
That doesn't say anything. How is a big engine more tolerable than a small one for driving cross-country?
Which existing policy that DeBlassio has promised to repeal/reverse will accelerate the the drop in crime in NYC?
Ken
The Democratic Party should be the one imploding, not the GOP-- but the offer of free handouts is a tough one to campaign against. It's amazing how most failing cities have been under de facto on-party rule for decades, yet that party has managed to blame the other one for all its ills.
I think you're confused in that the GOP doesn't offer free hand outs. It does, but just not to the people, but to corporations and the rich. Spending by the GOP still is much more than the Democrats, just less of it goes to help America or her people.
No it's not. It had to be completely re-engineered by VW for the US and was canceled for a short time because of that. It is not the same diesel they have in the EU.
It might not be the same exact thing, but it sure does get nice mileage, so what do I care if it's bolt-for-bolt identical or not?
"...required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time..."
Wouldn't that qualify as 'cruel and unusual punishment'??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
No, the GOP says that the Democrats are fucking the unemployed by destroying jobs and opportunities.
Obama's and the Democrat's stimulus program that they ran on in 2008 worked like shit and failed to achieve anything of what they promised. We are worse off today than Obama said we'd be without his stimulus program. Democrats are incompetent on the economy.
Exactly. You are talking about the Democrats, of course, many of whom are very rich.
Many of those "rich scumbag protecting assholes" are people who run small businesses, saved a lifetime, and/or spent a long time getting to the top of their profession for a few years of high income.
Furthermore, above median earners (i.e., middle class, far from rich) are generally split evenly between independents, Republicans, and Democrats.
Of course, people at the bottom of the income scale, of course, vote overwhelmingly Democratic, because Democrats promise them more and more free government handouts.
Yes, it "can work" if you happen to be a tiny nation sitting on vast amounts of oil (Norway) or an even tinier tax haven and banking capital wedged between two major and powerful neighbors (Luxembourg).
For nations that don't have these unusual featuers, however, the outcome is more like Greece or Spain: massive debt, risk of default, massive unemployment, deteriorating economy, etc.. Just like Detroit.
The problems of Greece and Spain have more to do with overspending and the European central bank rather than being socialist. The high unemployment is due to the harsh measures that were handed down which just made things worse. It is not due to socialism but from bad management of government funds. Another big problem in Europe is that governments lack a lot of control over their currency since it is all handled by the central bank. Great Britain kept their currency for just that reason and do not have the huge problems that some other European countries are experiencing.
Other socialists countries are also doing fairly well. The Chinese economy has been doing fairly well though now many Chinese are upset about the things the government has ignored (like the environment, human rights and corruption).
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Yes: the problems of Greece and Spain are entirely due to overspending, just like those of Detroit.
It's "socialist" in the sense that this overspending is justified in terms of socialist terms, although, of course, there is no intrinsic reason socialist nations need to overspend; the other choice they have is to simply push their populations into poverty directly without first running up a huge debt. Historically, that's the more usual course, since nobody would lend them money.
Yes: Greece and Spain employed many people in fake, unproductive jobs and financed that by borrowing from countries like Germany. But what you call "harsh measures" is simply an understandable desire of Germans not to waste any more money on this arrangement. Why should Germans pay (and lose their money on) Greeks to be employed in useless jobs?
By itself, that isn't a problem. It became a problem only because it enabled countries like Spain and Greece to spend more than they otherwise would.
Fairly well? China is below the Dominican Republic and below world average in terms of per-capita GDP, and that's probably with lots of fake data and hidden government debt. Furthermore, China is not a "progressive" or "liberal" country in the sense of Detroit: government services are extremely limited for most Chinese.
"Many of those "rich scumbag protecting assholes" are people who run small businesses, saved a lifetime, and/or spent a long time getting to the top of their profession for a few years of high income."
This is a gold plated bold faced lie. the tax increase for the wealthy is for the people that make $500,000 or more a year per person. people who run small businesses done even beginning to approach that kind of income. I work for a guy that employs 30 people, he only makes $180K a year.
Thus is the second problem, Fool republicans that listen to the talking morons on Fox news or worse, their idiot leader, Rush Limbaugh. Get some real education before you claim how hurt the small business owner will be by taxing the ultra rich.
We need a 30% flat tax on all assholes that makes $500K or more a year, and tax at 50% any stock or trading incomes.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
"The wealthy" means people with high net worth; left wing demagogues like to conflate wealth with high income, but they have little to do with one another. High income individuals often are not rich, and many wealthy people were never high income earners.
As for the high income earners, you demonize them as some distinct, evil class of people sucking the country dry. In reality, most high income earners are middle class people who have a few good years some time towards the end of their careers, money they often desperately need to save for retirement. But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of some good bigotry and hatred.
That's not going to hurt the "ultra rich"; they don't have much income and if you tax their trading, they simply won't bother and instead engage in other money-making activities that you can't tax. Your suggestions are going to hurt a real-estate agent who has an unusually good year, or an Apple employee who is selling stock in order to buy a house in Cupertino. In the long term, it's going to hurt the stock market, and with it everybody's retirement portfolios. It's jerks like you that are screwing the middle class with your idiotic and ignorant proposals.
You obviously know absolutely nothing about personal finance, US demographics, or economics. If there is one consolation, ignorance and stupidity like yours means you'll likely never be able to live or retire comfortably. But because you can't figure out why others can, you lash out.
Because the US Jetta is 37.8 miles to the gallon and the UK Jetta is 45.4 miles to the gallon. http://www.fuelly.com/car/volk...
My 2011 US Jetta Sportwagon is officially 39 MPG (that's US gallons, of course, not UK ones) on the highway, but in practice it's consistently showing 43-44 MPG (measured by driving from Seattle to Portland & back and then seeing how much it took to refill the tank at the station). I don't know why they underestimate the numbers like that, and whether it has anything to do with the limitations of the official tests used to measure it in either country.