Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: An Open Source PC Music Studio?
enharmonix writes "I have a big decision to make. I am probably going to buy a laptop that I will primarily use for music. I would prefer an OEM distro so I don't need to install the OS myself (not that I mind), but I have no preference between open- and closed-source software as an end-user; I just care about the quality of the product. There are two applications that I absolutely must have: 1) a standard notation transcription program with quality auditioning (i.e., playback with quality sound fonts or something similar, better than your standard MIDI patches) that can also accept recorded audio in lieu of MIDI playback, and 2) a capable synthesizer (the more options, the better). If there's software out there that does both 1 and 2 in the same app, that's even better. I've played with some of Ubuntu's offerings for music a few years ago and some are very good, though not all of them are self-explanatory and the last time I checked, none of them really met my needs. I am not so worried about number 2 because I think I could pretty easily develop my own in .NET/Mono, which I think would be a fun project (which would be open source, of course). I am a Gnome fan so if I go with Linux, I will almost certainly go with standard Ubuntu over Kubuntu, but Gnome seems to rule out Rosegarden which was the best FOSS transcription software out there the last time I checked. The other solution I've thought of is to just shell out the $600 for Finale, which I'm more than willing to do, but I'm not so sure I want Windows 8 and I'm just not sure I can afford to go with a Mac on top of the $600 for Finale. I don't intend to put more than one OS on my laptop, either. Any slashdotters out there dabble in composing/recording, using MIDI, sound fonts, recorded audio, and/or synthesizers? What setup of hardware/OS/software works for you? Can FOSS music software compete with their pricier closed source competitors?"
The KXStudio apps installed over Debian or Ubuntu tend to be pretty nice (better session handling that gladish provides at least).
Someone's paired the wrong headline and summary.
Your request included 'educated' - you're asking too much.
Since music is a collaborative art, and you are going to want to share music, aren't you better off using what people in your "scene" are using, whether that's your school program or online forum or in the performance venues you frequent? I'd expect that would trump whatever software might look "best" if you were working alone.
Although I believe the other anon was out of line for his response.
I don't know anything about any of this, but it sounds like this guy is somewhat above the basic dabbling hobbyist level and that higher echelon wouldn't seem to me to be Garageband's area.
For serious music production use MacOS, its the right tool for the job. Get Logic Pro or Pro Tools for audio/midi recording, and Sibelius or Finale for score editing. If you want pain & suffering welcome to use open source alternatives.
If you're making a statement of your religious faith OR if you're just tinkering, going to the trouble of finding something to run an open source package makes sense. If you're actually interested in the right tool for the job, then buy a real music studio with a Mac or a Windows PC instead. There's a reason that real musicians generally use real tools that suit professional needs.
A Mac is a viable option, why don't you re-read the original post.. try line 1.
And guaranteed to blow your entire budget on something completely ill-suited to music composition/recording before you can buy any other decent equipment.
Our music studio only records live sound (no MIDI). We use CCRMA on Fedora20. It has a ton of stuff you might find useful. We use it for the RT prempt capabilities so musicians can auto-punch-in/out during recording without have to go back and time-shift tracks later. Our "sound card" is a pair of Echo Audiofire 12's for the 24 mics around the studio.
I have tried just about EVERY option I can find in FOSS and they do not quite hold up to the current commercial offerings. Frankly, both as an end user and as a pro audio salesperson, I've only ever had mediocre luck with Make Music/Finale. At the very least, with Avid's Sibelius, I've been able to get decent tech support. I haven't had as much luck with Ardour as I'd like, and Audacity doesn't cut it. Getting into a decent Sequencer without dropping a fortune, I'd get into Studio One personally.
If you want more details and/or want to know more about my opinions on the matter, please feel free to PM me.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Logic/Cubase on the Mac, Sonar/Cubase for Windows. (My personal preference is Cubase). When this question was last asked not even 6 months ago, it was pretty well demonstrated that the state of open source DAW applications was fine for the hobbyist or the casual user, but if you want to do actual work, you need to get some real tools.
So your solution could be open source, but you may buy it, on the other hand you think you can develop part of what you want from scratch. And it could be on Windows 8, Linus or OS X.
The whole description is rather too rambling to make any real sense of. You would have been better off just asking what recommendations people have for a PC base music studio and left it at that, and let moderation bubble up various best of breed solutions.
And in hind sight I bet the "Open source" part of the topic was added for you.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
As a DJ, I've come across some tools and some complete distributions that will likely fit your needs, but I don't know quite enough to make specific recommendations. I do know that there are alot of Linux music production tools that are way above my head, pro quality stuff. The folks at Linuxmusician.com and Linuxaudio.org would know exactly what you're talking about and be able to make specific recommendations. I looked at a couple distributions that are complete audio workstations on boot. They included a lot of fancy tools that were way more than I needed.
As you may know, music production on Linux uses JACK to hook together any software components you want. That means any editor tool can work with any midi source, for example, because they are plugged together using jack.
Two popular software packages are Ardour and Traktion, but really the Linux music community at sites focused on music production under Linux will have much better answers for you.
I read the requirements, and I'm just wondering if GarageBand meets the requirements.
Sure, but if you really read and understood the requirements, you would not just wonder if GarageBand meets his requirements, but you would know that it does not.
I'm a gigging musician who's been doing digital audio for 20 years, and followed open source audio very closely for ages. Sadly, a purely FOSS solution will just hamper you. I tried for years, ( I played shows with 100% FOSS software) but honestly, I think a DAW is too feature rich for anything but a dedicated team to do properly. Now I use Reaper, which is as close to open source as you're going to get in a kick ass DAW. (Ardour will do for tracking and mixing, but not scoring or midi editing). It's got an unlimited un-crippled demo, cheap individual license ($40), cool company, and to be honest, it's so good I'd use it over Logic or Protools or Live even if it cost $500. It's incredibly well designed, and extendable in two scripting languages so there are loads of open source extensions and plugins for it. You can find tons of great FOSS environments to use *in addition* to your DAW ( PureData, SuperCollider, CSound, scads of open source plugins), but for your main DAW, the sweet spot IMHO is Reaper on a hackintosh.
If you *need* it to be 100% open source, Linux + Ardour + PureData or SuperCollider is a good option, but I wouldn't recommend it over doing the same thing with Os X and Reaper instead.
There is just not much in the free software world, particularly for Linux, that is good for music composition. Just the way it is. If you want to do it well, you need commercial tools, generally for Windows or Mac.
For what the original poster is looking for, I'd say have a look at Cakewalk Sonar X3. Sonar is real, real good at MIDI, knows how to deal with SoundFonts, has some built in synths that aren't too bad, and only runs $100 for the basic version. It's notation is not the best, but anything I can think of that is a reasonable step up is also quite a bit more money (like Cubase).
However depending on what the ultimate goal is, the DAW can end up being the cheap part of things. High quality samples cost a lot, and there are few freebies. Reason is to make good samples you need to hire good musicians, a good recording studio/hall, good engineers, and then spend a lot of time on it. Gotta make that money back somehow. So if you want realistic sounds, you can easily spend far more on samples than the DAW/sequencer. I own Sonar X3 Producer, which is $500, but I've spent more than that on a single sample set, and I have multiple sample sets.
Also if he thinks that programming a synthesizer is easy, he's got another thing coming. Making a competent synthesis engine that sounds good, is usable, etc, etc is not an easy task. Particularly since there are all sort of different kinds of synthesis one might wish to use, and each is implemented and controlled differently.
So, like the parent said: religious statement or actual work? If you just wanna play around in Linux with free solutions, then go to it. No need to ask on Slashdot, just try stuff out. Wikipedia has a list of OSS music software, to name just one place. If you are asking because you want something that doesn't suck and can do some real work, then you'll need to stick with Window or Mac and drop some money.
Like I said, I'd go for Sonar. There's a free trial, and the base version isn't that much and has good features and capabilities (it isn't crippled with regards to tracks and so on). You can always upgrade later.
Other reasonably priced options to look at are Reaper and FL Studio Fruity Edition.
2. figure out WHAT you want to do in music and select the software that fits your needs from there.
3. Buy the hardware that supports your software the best.
Frankly, in terms of just "getting shit done" Windows (7) is basically as good as Mac. Linux isn't so friendly, but if the software you need to get shit done is only on Linux, then, you're on Linux.
Now, there is a caveat with the software first thing, which is, your interface. If the audio in/out device you're using is Mac only, then you're using a Mac. Etc for the rest. So, for example for my home studio, I have a MOTU Ultralite MkIII hybrid running on windows 7 HP laptop. It's a bit quirky, but the sound quality is excellent and the preamps are smooth - for the price, it's hard to beat. There is better, but it costs more. Luckily, the MOTU is Mac/Win, and I happened to have this HP laptop not doing anything, so bingo: instant home music set up.
For software I run Ableton Live Suite - the fullblown monster. Why? Because what I do is more performance /composition based. If I was in a band and I was recording through some big multichannel interface, I would go with ProTools, because that's what I learnt in school, and it's pretty much the "MS Office" of the audio world (in more ways than one...) I also use Audacity, which is the swiss army knife of audio editing (i.e., small, crude, but effective)
For monitors at home I have a pair of EVENT PS8 monitors. They're a little bass heavy, but over all, very good sounding at a very reasonable price.
I don't use a mixing desk, I have an AKAI control surface and a Yamaha (XS6) synthesizer. Between them, I have plenty of ways of making things happen.
At work, things are very different - I have a ProTools C24 console and an SSL mixing desk with Bryston amps and Dynaudio 5.1 monitors and a Mac Tower running Protools, AVID, Audacity, Melodyne, Autotune, and a pile of other gear (compressors, processors, etc.) But that's almost half million bucks right there. So, "let's not go there" and let's focus on what you're trying to do.
So, get yourself an audio interface and some kick ass speakers, FIRST. Then figure out what software you need, and that will guide you to the hardware. When all is said and done, what computer you use is trivial, both in terms of effectiveness and expense. I bought my HP laptop (an old i5 running win 7) for $300 used. It works FINE. Ableton Live Suite literally costs THREE times as much. My laptop is one of the cheapest pieces of gear I own (my speakers were $650). So, don't sweat the hardware. Figure out the kind of music you want to make and proceed from there.
Here are some general suggestions
1. Rock Music: ProTools / Logic / Whatever - Focus on microphones and a good compressor.
2. Electronica: Ableton Live. Get a good control surface (I don't recommend Akai - mine sucks...) and a good keyboard
3. Dance Music: I would suggest a combo of FL Studio and Ableton Live
4. Composition: Finale and (whatever: Logic / Ableton / ProTools / Reaper / whatever) Your main point is to generate good composition - the software is just there to make it do something, so it will be more a question of what softsynths you use...)
5. Experimental: Cycling 74 Max/MSP or Processing. You'll need to get a Mac for that.
6. Jazz: See Rock.
That should get you started. DON'T TALK TO SALESMEN. They will try to sell you things. Things you probably don't need. Focus on what your interests and skills are, and then build your studio around that.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
But of course, since Ubuntu doesn't even use GNOME anymore as the default environment, I suppose it's possible you're simply asking a question from 2004, and I do remember back then apps looked kindof bad in the wrong DEs, and computers often didn't have enough disk space and RAM to want to bring in so many additional dependencies. Yeah, your question starts to make a bit more sense if we assume you're lost in time, although it still doesn't make a ton of sense. But anyways, considering it's 2014, who the fuck cares if you end up using an extra 100MB of RAM because you need to open the Qt libraries as well?
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
KXStudio is really the best choice if you want to give it a go on Linux. You can run whatever DE you want, gnome, kde, etc. Rosegarden will run just fine, even with a GTK DE (Gnome/Unity). So will QT based apps for that matter, just not as tight integration. I cant speak to transcription software, but Ardour is pro-quality multitrack audio, with decent and improving Midi capabilities. If you do opt for a Mac, I would highly recommend Reaper - for a $70 piece of software, it is quite amazing as a multitrack audio and midi studio.
Open Source purism or making music? For me it's making music so my answer is going to reflect that.
I'e seen this question before and I'll try and answer with what I feel gives you the most bang for your buck, rather than try and shoehorn some collection of solutions into the parameters listed above.
First of all, get a cheap but capable second hand laptop. If you're getting started you don't need the latest and greatest, as older stuff is really quite adequate to produce semi-pro results once you've mastered it, and the free tools out there are as a rule much less resource hungry than newly released software.
Secondly, by far the broadest and best selection of free stuff runs on Windows, however that makes you feel. Forget about open source, as you need to put in a few years work learning how to record and produce your music : any dreams of customizing software will quickly fade away once you realize how much effort recording itself takes (but it's loads of fun, so dive in and enjoy it). XP runs beautifully, more modern versions have been plagued with all sorts of issues when recording audio so at least take care when deciding this. This also has the advantage of being able to find dirt cheap 2nd hand laptops and thus having more money to spend on dedicated music hardware.
From then on : if you're still having fun (as I am after 15 years of going down this road)
Good multitrackers, soft synths, samplers and samples, audio editors and effects and mastering plugins are easily obtainable for free via an hour or so on Google, and any decent soundcard from the last 10 years will be perfectly good enough - mozt people are going to listen to your stuff on MP3 format if you get any interest in your music. Pay much more attention to your room acoustics, loadspeakers and how your mixes work on different systems in different environments and compared to professional recordings. Read a lot about this stuff. If you record acoustically you need to know a lot about microphones. If it's all done "in the box" get a really good controller keyboard and fader setup.
Finally I hope you have as much fun as I've had exploring all this stuff.
Ubuntu Studio will do everything you need
Use the right tool for the right job. If you're concerned about Windows 8, then either download a Classic start menu replacement (plenty of good free ones) and use the desktop exactly the same as you always have, or grab Windows 7 (some places still sell it). Don't make a big deal out of something that's really not a big deal in the first place, no matter what Slashdot likes to think. In the end it's the music creation software that counts and Linux equivalents simply doesn't stack up yet in terms of features, easy of use, support by plugin developers and user base, and all the niceties you get from the packages that are only available in Windows or Mac.
Fights battles when they are worthy of fighting. You already said you only care about the quality of the product. Again, use the right tool for the job.
That's assuming I'm familiR with the capabilities of GarageBand. Or music programs in general. Duh.
For the money you cant beat it.
Vote 1 Ubuntu Studio. Works great. Rosegarden works fine with it too (not loaded by default, post-install it).
Doesn't Linux still have problems with low-latency audio?
It would be nice if there was a good, solid selection of VST's to go with the various Linux DAW's.
There isn't, so as much as I would *LOVE* to run linux at home, Ableton, Maschine and NI Komplete ($thousands all up) do not have linux compatibility. If you just want to track audio channels then you're set. But, high quality production from the ground up ITB isn't quite the preserve of linux / foss DAW's. Yet.
You can use GNU/Linux, whether Ubuntu or even better, Trisquel. Another interesting one to try is Fedora: http://www.muktware.com/2012/0... and they also have another. Almost any distro can handle audio, some do this better than others in terms of plugins. This article is a tad dated, but also informative. http://createdigitalmusic.com/... There is no need to go the proprietary route unless you are looking for something very specific.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
BUT, that being said, I'm a musician in real life that prostitutes myself as an engineer during the day to pay the bills, for several decades now...
I tried for years using various software packages on Windows and Linux, you name it, I've tried it... Bottom line is, I finally broke down and bought a MBP in 2011 ( cheap ass $1199 entry level one, maxed out the memory and shitcanned the HD and installed a 512 Gb SSD) I'll never look back and wish I'd done it a lot sooner.
Everyone can spew whatever fanboi shit they want to, but Apple owns the music market. Even software that works in multiple OS environments like ProTools work better on a Mac and you don't run into hardware/latency/drivers/other issues common on other HW/OS platforms. Just go ahead and buy an Apple iMac or MBP as suits your environment; if you don't you can spend a lot of time/money/aggravation over a period of years, trust me, been there, done that, have the T-shirt and barbed wire ankle tattoo...
Try MuseScore. If it doesn't meet your needs, get a Mac.
http://musescore.org/
No, the real time kernel was available by 2008 and soon after the drivers and other important elements for real time were adapted.
You DO want to use a kernel compiled for real time, last I checked. You certainly CAN introduce latency if you're also using it as a typical desktop, but if you either start with a studio distribution or build it as a studio machine you should be fine.
If you want to record audio, use synths, etc, I'd recommend sticking with one of the big boys: Ableton, Cubase, Sonar, Logic, FL Studio, Pro Tools. Compatibility is a big deal and unless you have a compelling reason to pick something more niche it'll likely cause you more pain than it's worth. Synths are all either VST for PC or AU for Mac, and they work in all the DAWs. You won't want just one, most of us end up with 10's or even hundreds. If you're looking to do anything realistic in terms of orchestral or acoustic sounds expect to spend $$.
The only thing you mention which is a little specialist is notation support - I know Cubase does a decent job of that and some of the others (FL, Ableton) don't support it at all. Something to research.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
I've been writing and recording since the early 80s. I own several computers and tonnes midi/audio recording software, (e.g. Protools, Cubase, Garage Band, Sonar, Sibelius...). I've also been using Linux on my desktop since Mandrake 7. Recently, I set up a computer with Ubuntu Studio, and I love it. I've barely touched any of the other systems since....mostly just to export tracks. There was a bit of a learning curve, but I'm finding that once I got the hang of using Jack, there was no turning back.
Primarily, I'm using Ardour (http://ardour.org/features.html) for multi-track audio recordings (LV2, VST and LADSPA plugins are all supported), MuseScore (http://musescore.org/) for scoring, Timidity/Qsyth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiMidity%2B%2B) for MIDI tone generation.
Also, I've never had any issues sharing tracks with users of other programs, nor have I had any issues exporting from other programs/platforms into those in Ubuntu Studio.
"Oh, what sad times these are when passing ruffians can say 'ni' to helpless old ladies."
you want to run a recording studio on an OS that cant even mix a line input without dropping down to a command line and running a text based tool... have fun, but if I were you I would get something that requires less time dicking around and more time recording
It's definitely not open source, but I vote Reason 7, windows 7. You won't get the standard notation, but everything else you wanted, you'll get in droves. It's a seriously excellent program and sounds fantastic. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the state of the art is for free stuff. There's probably something out there, but I figured I'd cast my vote for Reason.
Top 10 Notation Software Reviewed
As you can see from the reviews Sibelius scores the best and runs on Windows 7,XP, Vista and Mac. If you want to go ahead and write your own open source software then I'm sure us slashdotters would be happy with that. However, if you don't have the time to do that then Sibelius is probably the go.
You mentioned programming your own synth, which would be open source. I'd bet there is an open source synth that is 98% what you want. Since it's open source, you can just do the 2% that it's missing - no need to write your own 100%.
Several people mentioned Mac. I'm a hardcore FOSS guy. I used FOSS exclusively for 15 years. Mac devices like the iPhone reminded me why proprietary stuff can be so annoying. Then I was presented with a Mac Pro. Actually using the Mac changed my view. It's good, and it's what professional creatives use - for a reason. Don't let any negative experiences with iOS portable devices put you off of Mac computers. It's as if OSX and iOS are made by two different companies. Additionally, Mac OSX is Unix, so it'll run most any Linux programs.
If you're just working in your basement or making basic recordings/mixings, go with Garageband. Need more features and aren't afraid of paying a bit more look at Logic Pro-X. I like LogicPro for composing music while ProTools is better for editing and mixing.
All of the above have a rich support for plugins.
Conversely you could select Audacity. Runs on windows/linux/mac and is pretty much free. It's a step up from Garageband, depending on exactly what you need to do. Definitely take a look at it.
One could pick their applications based on platform or based upon your requirements/needs of your work.
I chose the latter and went with a mac and LogicPro.
Btw, don't forget to to get good input hardware (mics, converters etc..). Believe it or not, that $30 cable that comes with the game Rocksmith does provide an ok USB interface, not quite as good as the equipment from Line6, but if you're just hacking in the basement for minimal cost, it'll work. With recordings crappy input = crappy output.
I would also spend some time on Homerecording.com browsing/searching their forums. This topic is covered quite a bit there.
Good luck.
We pretty much assumed you knew nothing about music programs in general when you suggested an apple device.
I've been following this for more than a decade, even wrote a lot of audio software for Linux, and all my music is made under it, with my own apps. Yet I recognize the situation will never improve. Here's why:
1) While the Linux kernel is perfectly capable of low latency, even on the shittiest of hardware, it does not provide the concept of primary and secondary buffers. If you want to use pro audio, you want to be able to mix the low latency, high sampling rate stream together with the regular OS/Desktop audio. Windows and OSX do this by setting the hardware for the realtime client, then also mixing the secondary audio over it, which comes from userland (or already mixed in userland). As a result, when using realtime audio in Linux, desktop audio dies or is hacked to route pulseaudio to jack and other stuff that does not really work well.
2) It's impossible to write plugins similar to VST, because of the different way tookits connect to X11 (they won't share the connection). You can't mix and match toolkits so a host DAW will use different plugns. The only way is to use separate processes, but that makes programming complexity much higher and very few people bothered. Wayland seemed like it could fix this in the future, but other distros such as Ubuntu refuse to use it, so it doesn't seem good.
3) Good programmers are not necesarily good composers. This is something that is much more important than it seems. Commercial companies are forced to listen to their users, but OSS developers mostly care about doing something good enough for themselves. Given the chance that a good programmer is a good producer/composer is super slim for the practical world, most audio software kind of sucks and feels incomplete. Ardour took more than a decade to implement MIDI and it still is horrible, because the main developers care more about live session recording. If they really had to use it everyday to make professional music, it wouldn't be as bare bones as it is now. At the same time, stuff that looks like a good idea (jack daemon) are terrible in practice because making music with a bunch of applications open is akin or worse to a live set of devices with cables connected.
4) Finally, the biggest problem of Linux is that, unlike other software such as 3D or imaging, there is plenty of cheap and good Windows/OSX audio alternatives, so even if OSS software were to run properly on Windows/Mac, the incentive is still slow. It's not like Blender or Gimp, that it's commercial counterparts are in the thousands $.
If you aren't familiar with the capabilities of GarageBand, or any other music software, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU COMMENTING ON THIS PARTICULAR STORY?
I use it as a hobby and am reasonable happy with it.
It's a live distro and I never bothered to install it onto a hard drive, though I believe it's possible.
http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html
But download ubuntu/xubuntu/mint on USB flash drive, install it on another, or simply try it from virtualisation! That way is best way before you go full on into open source. Also, as a side note, see if laptp will be compatible with Linux. Avoid poblems before they are real! I got Lenovo laptop for me mom, id search for specific model but I can't right now since I am at work and gmail is restricted here.
I use FL. It is a great program. I've been using FL for a decade almost, and I like it alot. I like the synths and sounds alot. Experiment with vsts. You can plug them in. I also use Reaper.
People rave about Logic, Reason and Protools. I can't deny the quality of music I've heard made first two. Never touched PT, nor been told when music is made with it, but I've also met audiophiles seem to love it.
You will soon discover that your hardware is the biggest constraint, after the software is taken care of.
Make sure to add a hardware audio compressor to your system if you are using distortion+EQ's. LEARN _HOW_ TO USE IT so it protects your ears from sound spikes. Even "small" PC speakers can cause partial deafness with sound spikes happening at particular frequencies.
If you really get into this you will realize that your own use of the tools is every bit as important as the tools themselves.
This isn't really a recommendation for open-source, but since we're working with music, where the creative process is the key to the result, I'd say also look into lower-cost solutions. Last thing you want to deal with are drivers and latency issues. DAWs on windows (and mac) these days are really powerful. Reaper ($60) is a great low-cost, yet very powerful solution, but I find the menus too cluttered. But that's my preference. DAWs like Sonar/Nuendo/Cubase have lower cost ($100) options too but also very powerful. I noticed you said midi - sonar's good for that. Reaper - not so much in that area.
I also recommend visiting gearslutz.com (not a pr0n site - it's a forum dedicated purely to music/audio engineering). Beware of mis-information though and make sure the posters to your answers make records for a living. The search function on the site works great. Somebody might even have posted recommendations on opensource options there.
Most of the cross platform stuff works better in Windows. You can sniff around online for various tests, DAWBench has some good ones: http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v.... You also don't get away from driver issues if you are talking pro audio, since all the pro cards have their own drivers and many of them are... suboptimal to put it nicely.
If you like using a Mac, that's fine, but don't try and sell it as "better" because objectively, you can get more polyphony, lower latency, etc on a Windows system using the same software. Not really a big deal these days as an i7 + SSD generally means your system has more power than you need for anything, but the data is what it is.
Actually for some great synths look no further than the iPad: Nave, the Yamaha Synth & Pad, Korg iMS-20, iPolysix, iElectribe, Arturia iSEM, iMini and many others. The best with this is that you can drive it using a combo of an ipad USB interface with a Roland UM-ONE (MIDI) interface, this way you can use any synth with a MIDI out to drive the iPad, or if you prefer you can drive it with a MIDI sequencer or a DAW.
You then simply record the audio back into your DAW. It may be not the simplest of setups, but the great music companies of the MIDI era (think 80s, 90s) are creating/recreating many synths on the iPad these days and they sound great (some purists will say they don't but then again, you can't buy any hardware synth for a mere 5-10$ nor can you get decent sound fonts/samples for such a low price).
To be honest i do have some vintage gear: D110, K4r, AX73, D550 and some Proteus' but the iPad is great to try some ideas and if you like the sound, then record it in your DAW!
The sound is the point, how it was created is pointless (but the road to its creation can be fun and rewarding too, but that's another topic).
I'm kind of surprised no one in this long thread have mentioned Linux MultiMedia Studio yet, that software is actually very capable. http://lmms.sourceforge.net/ Enjoy.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Think about that. All the pieces in Logic cost a small fortune not too long ago.
Yes Gearslutz.com is the place to go, many great discussions. Also on the topic, be afraid of the latest and greatest version of any OS, Windows 8.x, OSX 10.9.x as the music companies that produce the DAWs as well as hardware audio interfaces tend to support these versions after a while. I guess they must work hard on debugging their product compared to say game companies which tend to release ASAP then just keep patching them as bugs creep along. A DAW is not a game after all and you probably don't want to rerecord your last day because of a software crash/bug/glitch.
With OSX stick with 10.8.x, with Windows stick with Win7. On the hardware front prefer SSD over HDD if you plan to do a lot of tracks and/or use libraries of samples. Plus invest in RAM, swapping is your enemy to low latency oh and all the crapware and background tasks too. If you want to do music, make it a dedicated music computer.
When you start working in the DAW, just unplug the network because you don't want Symantec updating its definitions or any background process happening when you record that once in a lifetime track.
Read reviews and make note of the hardware setup of the reviewer, prefer tried and tested and supported over latest and greatest but buggy. Try demo versions of the DAW you plan to purchase and make sure you get the concept, each one has a learning curve and some are quite daunting.
I use Ubuntustudio with a gnome desktop. Rosegarden runs fine. My basic go-to is Rosegarden using mostly orchestral type soundfonts, Yoshimi (the usable version of the very fine Zynaddusbfx software synth), and Ardour (the DAW). I don't mess much with notation, although I have published some very simple works with Rosegarden. It seems that you are wanting to commit your music to notation which may be difficult in the open source world. Also fiddling with soundfonts and the myriad realistic subtleties currently available with advanced software like Finale would be difficult. My music tends more towards "soundscapes", heavy on a baseline synth, with the simple orchestral soundfont or two on the top. Fun, but probably not what you are interested in doing. I'm hoping that Ardour will incorporate sequenced tracks (they keep saying they will) so I don't have to open so many programs... Good luck in your endeavor!
> As a DJ, I've come across some tools and some complete distributions that will likely fit your needs, but I don't know quite enough to make specific recommendations.
Great, ty for posting.
If you want to use Linux Renoise is a great program - its interface is more like a tracker, but just as capable as a traditional DAW. Its crossplatform and inexpensive too! I've been writing music exclusively on Linux for a while now (I released an EP a couple of days ago).
Secret Level EP .
Im very much looking forward to the release of "Bitwig Studio" - this will be the piece of software that may convince a lot of musicians to switch to Linux. Its written by the same guys who built Ableton Live and I cant bloody wait for its release !
Bitwig
Nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
It may not be exactly what you're looking for, since it doesn't have a standard notation interface but it's open source and packs a serious punch if you like a tracker interface.
You can add a ton of functionality -- synths, effects, audio mastering -- with VST plugins, and many can be found for free at www.kvraudio.com.
You can sample with more functionality than with the built-in sampler using a VST called Shortcircuit (vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php).
Best of all, it runs in wine with almost perfect (I never experienced any issues) performance.
And in windows (not sure about wine) you can use ASIO4ALL as the audio driver for almost no latency.
Supports all kinds of MIDI input even in a linux based environment.
Combined with MIDIOX and Midiyoke it can handle more inputs as well.
You can play soundfonts using sfz or sfz+ or any other vst that supports soundfonts (http://www.cakewalk.com/Download/sfz.aspx).
Pretty sure shortcircuit supports soundfonts as well.
Website:
http://openmpt.org/
Source code:
http://sourceforge.net/p/modplug/code/HEAD/tree/
I coupled that with...I dunno, the actual subject line, which says 'open source', which would preclude Apple, so why don't you drop the attitude?
Looks like "RTFT - Read The F*cking Title" needs to become the new baseline around here.
form free/oss land: check out ardour, it does midi now.
If you want something that is easy to approach, but powerful when you need it, I'd suggest Logic X if you have a Mac. I've been using it since the eMagic days and it has always been very powerful, but the last revision makes a lot of that power more accessible to the novice. also it only costs $200 and comes with many many sampled instruments and soft synths and channel strip plugins. it used to cost $1000 and that was a good deal...
If you're on windows I'd check out cubase, protools is an "Industry standard" but many industry pros i know want to commit suicide because of it breaking for no good reason fairly often. the mac version seems to be better than the windows version stability wise. I think its ok software, just not comparatively for the money.
If you're into this type of stuff, please check out Rosegarden, it's an incredible suite similar to GarageBand but more feature filled and mature IMHO.
Twinstiq, game news
I've been using recording software for the last 17 years and I have yet to see an OSS competitor to Sonar, Logic, Protools, or any of the big name commercial packages. Reaper is the closest I've seen as far as projects with a seemingly smaller budget go, but it is not OSS. Ardour is decent, but you're going to want good virtual instruments and quality effects if you want studio quality recordings. So you get Ardour for free, but you'll still want to use Native Instruments or one of the other solid VST modules for effects and those are never cheap. I'm guessing your basic needs are multitrack recording, mixing, editing, effects processing, and MIDI/virtual instruments. Ardour does those very well, although it was a bit unstable last time I used it. I was using it as a VST host and if I recall correctly it didn't like the 96Khz samples I was using. I ended up purchasing Sonar used from a craigslist ad and paid about 1/6 of retail.
Just install a distro with a low latency kernel like http://www.64studio.com or http://ubuntustudio.org. It's very easy to do. I used it for years before switching to Mac. Both come with Ardour, which is a professional yet free DAW for both midi and audio. As far as synthesis goes, there's a wealth of those. Bristol always looked the most promising, but development seems to have halted. Yoshimi, based on ZynAddSubFX is a pretty decent. When it comes to music notation, I couldn't read a note to save my life so I can't help you there.
Looks like "RTFS - Read The F*cking Summary" needs to become the new baseline around here.
CAPTCHA: Wisdoms. I guess because I can read?
Csound is a very capable synthesier. Well, it's actually everything you want it to be. But yes, you need to learn it, it's kind of a programming language.
Same with PureData.
Lilypond is a very good notation system. But again, there is a learning curve.
Why not have a look at IRCAM's OpenMusic? http://repmus.ircam.fr/openmus... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...
If audio is your primiary thing, and aso stability. Buy a Macbook Pro. It is the only option.
I haven't looked at it in a while, so i'm not sure about the project's status, but LMMS meets all your requirements.
It's modeled after FL studio (from a UX / workflow perspective).
I wrote a longer post but I lost it, so here's the links:
LMMS ("Compatible with many standards such as SoundFont2, VST(i), LADSPA, GUS Patches, and MIDI")
http://lmms.sourceforge.net/
Ardour (A DAW, but maybe useful)
http://ardour.org/
Rosegarden (Best sequencer, with Lilypad notation support, has actual printed literature you can buy)
http://www.rosegardenmusic.com...
Audacity (PCM swiss army knife ;)
http://audacity.sourceforge.ne...
The Cloudsto MK802IV LE, £80 ARM PC-onna-stick for doing music production on (Toys!!! *8D)
http://www.sonicstate.com/news...
Who needs a Mac or a PC when you can run it all on the CPU your phone uses?
Not tried it myself but for £80, I need to get one and have a go.
I do a lot of MIDI composition. Cakewalk was the first piece of MIDI software which I was really able to get to grips with, originally in Windows 3.1. I run an old version of SONAR now, under WINE. I use that for composing, but then export it into Rosegarden for recording. I did most of this in Windows until 7 came along and broke the 4x4 USB MIDI interface I was using - it was easier just to stay in Linux from that point on.
For sound generation, I use hardware, mostly rackmount syntheszers. You can find these second hand on ebay quite a lot - the Roland JV series are pretty good general-purpose sound sources for starting out. They have the advantage that they are completely OS-agnostic, and apart from some weirdos like the Creamware ASB or the Receptor, they don't require online activation and they also won't die the year after the maker goes bust because OSX or Windows broke some API it uses. If you must use VSTs, Rosegarden and a couple of other packages will act as a VST host, probably using bits of WINE to do so. The MUSE Receptor does this as a hardware device (again, using a modified version of WINE) but although a Linux device, it is up to the hilt in DRM and remarkably expensive for what it is.
Where it gets unusual is recording and tracking. I record quick demos of the piece using Audacity, but for the real thing I track it onto tape, using a timecode track to control the sequencer. This isn't a legacy system, it was a deliberate decision because I wanted to get some idea of how things were done before Protools became widespread.
If I didn't do it that way, I'd either be looking at using a standalone DAW such as an Alesis HD24, or Ardour. I few years ago I scored a TASCAM 1" 24-track machine, and before that I was using a pair of synchronized 8-track machines, but to be honest that was a royal pain. I mix the 24-track tape down to a 1/4" stereo machine, and digitize the stereo master from that. I also have a 24-channel JoeCo recorder which I use to take digital safety masters of the multitracks.
I am well aware that this is a weird thing to do in this day and age, but I figured I may as well throw it into the pot. In any case, there are people like Slugbug and Freelove Fenner who do the whole thing completely in the analogue domain, but that's not really what the question was.
Don't let any negative experiences with iOS portable devices put you off of Mac computers. It's as if OSX and iOS are made by two different companies.
I think the person asking the question wasn't looking at Macs due to a cost issue, not necessarily because of iOS
So there are open source synths that rival Kontakt, Diva, Zebra, Lush, etc.? I'm interested. Can you give a few pointers?
Just get a cheap netbook with a browser and use audiotool. ... No matter the OS, as long as it has Flash (Chrome has Flash built in).
Honestly, I'm only joking a little here. The stuff these people did with audiotool is amazing right up to flat out insane. You really should check it out. I wouldn't be suprised if it fits *all* your needs.
That aside, you get tons of tools in the closed and FOSS space. I'd go with what fits best. It may be that the available midi/audio to usb interfaces are most sophisticated for the mac vs. windows or x86 Linux.
You also want to consider the hardware. The new Mac Pro (the round pipe-thing) has gotten raving reviews from audio professionals for its silent operation (1 fan only) in relation to its power and speed. Some even use it directly in the studio. If your on a budget, a linux laptop with supported audio hardware (supported seperate USB audio interface strongly recommended!!) will do just fine. Supercollider is one of the many FOSS audiotools (it's a synth) that are really great. There are ready-made Linux music+audio distros out there, even a specialized ubuntu variante, IIRC.
Then again, do check out audiotool. Some musicians use it exclusively. A webapp. No shit. A friggin webapp. ... As I said: Quite amazing.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I relly hate these ask/.s!
I wish these would be more generic questions, but it's alway about solving very unique problems for one people...... Isn't there a gazillion message boards in the internet for this sort of very specific questions?!?!?!!??!
This is an example of the music I produce. It is produced using KXStudio and ardour with linuxsampler/hydrogen (running as an LV2 plugin via composite sampler)/linuxdsp/calf plugins. It shows that it is definitely possible to use opensource software to create songs. Of course i have also mixed in LinuxDSP (which is commercial) along with the calf plugins - they plays a big part in my sound.
https://soundcloud.com/shadowo...
Most of the money I have spent is on the equipment I use to record (my guitars/ tube condenser mic/X-Station/headphones etc). But I have also spent a lot of time and energy accumulating free samples from different sources and kitting them together(the drum kit is an example - it is a hydrogen based Drumkit using the Colombo Acoustic Drumkit with other samples (e.g. the snare) from different sources - all free). I also use the excellent composite sampler to directly plugin the hydrogen drumkits as a lv2 plugin into Ardour's midi tracks, so I don't use anything over ardour really. I use a cheap BCF2000 in Mackie emulation mode with Ardour.
I have also bought the linuxdsp plugins - I can honestly say that they are on par and sometimes better than commercial offerings (listen to the Linuxdsp Pultech EQ in action and compare that to the real thing - very close!) - the best part is that they are not restricted to linux - so you can use them where-ever. Also use the excellent calf plugins especially the saturator.
It works for the kind of music I do - (a mix of classical/classical rock/blues/jazz) and the fact that I compose/record/produce/sing my music myself, but I have felt the pain in the past and it has often taken me a lot of time to produce the things the way i wanted it to sound (You can see some of my older pieces as well on soundcloud - you can see that the sound does gets progressively better - it was part of a learning process of learning to use the tools and learning music production! I am currently working on a new track which uses the sonatina orchestra which is a free orchestral sample released under creative commons and i think that definitely sounds a lot better than my previous ones. Also Ardour allows for midi editing on screen - i.e.. i can see all my tracks side by side with midi at the same track resolution- its very useful when i need to line up notes across tracks. Other DAWs tend to have a separate window come up when you need to have midi editing (or they used to..not sure if that's the case anymore!)
If you go with a mac - chances are you will be doing what other people have already done and use the tools that they do - it does wind up costing more though- but if you are going to be producing music for other folks, time will be critical. Also there are probably more tools/options out there for the mac - e.g. I still can't find an auto tune equivalent for linux - however it is possible to run windows VSTs under emulation in wine as well - you can find videos in youtube.
The key thing with the mac is that if you run into problems..chances are someone would be able to help you solve them - I know a friend who absolutely swears by his macbook for music production and he says that the support is amazing. Linux based DAWs have also grown in that sense - the Ardour community is large but I just get the feeling that the mac might be a bit more mature - although this could be a case of the grass being greener on the other side. It will now be a bit of a learning curve, I am way too used to the way Ardour/jack and how my tools work now that I have invested the time and energy in getting to know them.
Also these tools have matured (i have been using them for over 5 years now). So a lot of the problems I faced in 2008 have been minimized. Suggest that if you do have the time, try giving them a spin with a simple project or something- spend a few weeks playing with it - if you like it use it. If you don't then you can always switch to commercial. The only thing you would have lost is time. That's what I did originally and didn't really look back after that.
Long standing member of the Linux audio community here, with almost 20 years experience of recording under all 3 major platforms.
Please end the Mac fanboism and answer this poor guys question!
He's asking about LINUX BASED notation software and synths! I'm sure he's well aware of Macs, REAPER and ProTools etc - not that they do what he's after anyway!
Musescore and Rosegarden have already been mentioned for Linux notation software but there is also http://laborejo.org/ , http://denemo.org/ and http://www.frescobaldi.org/ . Laborejo seems to be the most popular in the Linux world these days. I'm not sure which is the best as I don't do notation very often and I've not tried them all. The last few are basically lilypond GUIs.
As for synths, the best (and most powerful) commercial synths for Linux is Loomer's Aspect. Its unbelievably CPU efficient too. As for open source, there is TAL Noizemaker (my fave), zynaddsubfx/Yoshimi, Amsynth and Triceratops are all worth checking out.
Another good free synth (but not open source yet) for Linux is Tunefish - thats my 3rd fave after Noizemaker and Aspect.
The best Linux Audio distros are KXStudio and AVLinux. As for DAWs (which he wasn't asking about, but just for my 2p) Ardour has lots of fans and many people use REAPER under Linux as its officially supported running under wine but my fave Linux DAW is qtractor. Its the fastest and most lightweight modern DAW. It lacks some whizz bang features of the popular commercial DAWs but you may find it does everything you need it to.
Buddy, if you can keep track of MIDI channels, wires and software, you arent going to have any trouble installing a distro like , Ubuntu Studio.
Plenty of the programs you want and much more.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
no, the ferrari is the alienware gaming pc - your 23 year old toyota is windows xp and a mac is probably a prius - FOSS would be a more akin to something like a jeep from ww2 - only mechanical bits - so it works, as long as you know how to repair it, needs a lot of banned lead fuel, has no central heating, and a lot of rusted through parts which need replacing every few miles. sure, it's still a good car, but it would probably take you weeks to drive to your family.
there is no FOSS equivalent of Cubase or Logic (integrated midi sequencer, multi-track audio recorder/editor/arranger, plugin interface for synths and effects/filter)
there is LMMS, which roughly equates with Frooty Loops. Ardour is a highly configurable multi-track recorder, allegedly similar to Pro-Tools although I would compare it more to a high-end digital mixer multi-track... no candy or fancy stuff, just the basics but highly configurable. you also have the (not free but not expensive) Harrison Mix Bus version of Ardour- where it includes the sauce ( a fancy mixer, fancy plugin effects, etc...)
you will likely not have much success using a C# stack for any usable workhorse synth. its too slow. there are various projects like C# synth, you have portAudioSharp, you have NAudio, and a few other libraries, but C# itself is TOO SLOW for proper audio work.
check out C++ and probably you will have to resort to C for stuff inside the "callback function" which is executed often enough to fill sample buffers
for this your best bet to easy coding is JUCE and the IntroJucer- which is about as hand-held as it gets, in the audio dsp world... (where not much is easy, but it's not rocket science either) and you will need the VST sdk if you plan on developing for that format (JUCE let's you write cross platform and wrap it as a linux/windows vst or an audiounit)
my preferred workchain is logic (as a synth/sampler rack) followed by exporting audio and midi and bringing it all into cubase :)
these days most of the "post production tricks" are literally post-production and applied in the form of editing and offline processing bits of audio.
if you are interested primarily in scoring, you have countless options that I know nothing about, but I wanted to inform you of what I DO know something about, so good luck
I think the person asking the question wasn't looking at Macs due to a cost issue, not necessarily because of iOS
Actually he was not ruling out Macs, nor Windows "I have no preference between open- and closed-source software as an end-user; I just care about the quality of the product."
also "I'm more than willing to do, but I'm not so sure I want Windows 8 and I'm just not sure I can afford to go with a Mac on top of the $600 for Finale."
From what i have just checked you can get a refurbished Macbook Air for 849$ in Canada, add 200$ for Logic and while this is not a bargain laptop it is a decent price for the most portable DAW. He can also get a used Macbook Air or Pro for a lot less.
In music production the laptop is probably not the most expensive equipment: synths, mics, mixers, audio interfaces can all go from a few hundreds to a few grands when you add them all together to get a basic setup.
If you want to make music without spending a penny: FastTracker :)
Honestly though, "back in the day" lol
Just stick with Windows 7, unless you are moving into top end commercial pro-production (eg: Tv/Film), you wont need Logic and a Mac.
If you want everything all included in one simple program: Propellerhead Reason.
Used by Prodigy.
Run it, use it. Everything is included with the product.
If you want the next best thing to Logic: Ableton live.
Used by Deadmau5
Vst compatible with clear interface. This is my personal preference.
You'll probably want Massive/Nexus and Izone5 VSTs, but for everything else, Ableton has great inbuilt plugins.
If there's any area where I think Linux-based systems excel it's audio processing. I've been recording for almost ten years on Linux now and while it was a nailbiting affair in the past it is now very complete and efficient.
I use Ardour, LMMS, Audacity and Hydrogen for almost everything. Jack is the way I connect PCM and MIDI for everything.
Hardware support from vendors is still aproblem, I used M-Audio hardware with the unsupported ice-driver (comes with kernel since 2.4 I think), but these days I run RME's hardware stack, RME not only supports Linux officially (official hdsp driver is in upstream kernel), but also has great tech support for Linux-specific issues. Their hw isn't cheap, but it's great quality and good Linux support.
I run kxstudio over a heavily modified system that functions as a media centre, file server, desktop, dev machine and low latency DAW. It works fine for me.
Geez, I started reading these comments hoping to find a better notation solution than rosegarden for Linux and it's full of superstitious crap
I don't therefore I'm not.
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/
Check out Planet CCRMA. It's a distribution that is Fedora based that includes a lot of audio tools in their ISO. Compatibility with a good interface is sometimes hard to find but it works with a pro tools rig.
Windows 8 is a great OS, regardless of what the grognards here will say. You don't have to use Metro except as a glorified Start Menu if you don't want to, and the rest of the OS is basically Windows 7 only better. If that's not a problem for you, go for that. I was in the same situation as you, tried to install Guitar Pro on Linux, and that more of a pain in the ass than I wanted, so I just switched back to Windows. Plus, there's no driver for my Asus DAC on Linux (which is Asus' fault, sure, but in the end I want to use my 400€ DAC).
That's not what I said. What I said is that there is probably one (not "a lot") that the submitter would be happy with, based on their needs. For any given use case, there is probably one that is approximately as good as any you mentioned.
Especially given that the submitter said would be happy with something they made themselves!
> can you give a few pointers?
See the subject line of my post, which you replied to.
If you posted about your use case and what is important to you, the Linux music community could point you to the solutions that meet your needs.
Apple certified refurbished store:
http://store.apple.com/us/brow...
Other than that check the usual used sites, there's usually a few older MacBooks out there. I'd make sure whatever you get will run Mavericks, not because it's so wonderful, but because it should be fairly modern hardware. And $200 for Logic Pro X, to me anyway, is just a fantastic deal. Add on Main Stage 3 for another $30.
One thing that you'll get that no one seems to be pointing out is the lack of surprises when there's a minor patch or update. When I was running Ubuntu it seemed like every new release would cause major damage to drivers and any software that had tweaked .conf files, and the updates came fast and furious before and after a major release. After moving to OS X a lot of my routine maintenance became a thing of the past. And I can still run just about any OSS software although sometimes I need to compile it myself.
Since when did Slashdot become google?
Unless you like having your setup crash and burn every 8-14 months. Someone will update something....the OS itsself, a driver, a desktop....and IT WILL BREAK YOUR RIG. You'll spend time re-installing and reconfiguring. Your hardware will suddenly not be supported anymore because no one is spending time to develop the support (it IS volunteer-made free software). You'll have to stop projects mid-stream to fix your machine.
The reason the majority of pro recording setups use a Mac is that the thing is locked down, thus harder to mess up, thus more reliable. Saying that doesn't make me happy; I literally spent ten years working on Linux. PROUDLY. I was happy to be using and supporting open source software. For years, I accepted the workflow interruptions and inconveniences as "the cost of doing business" with free software. My favorite was the time the release notes for Ubuntu Studio said "We had a total developer fail on this one", and they did....it simply did not work. They released it anyway. My machine auto-upgraded. My mistake.
This summer, however, support for my PCI card-based a/d converter was just DROPPED in favor of developing usb 3.0 compatibility. Suddenly, I couldn't even install an old distro to get back on track. I had to get a sysadmin friend to roll me a custom OS from the ground up just to get my rig working again...so that I could finish the 3 albums and one film project I was working on.
I HAD A WORK STOPPAGE OF 3 MONTHS. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? THREE MONTHS.
None of my engineer friends with Macs have had that issue.
I have switched to a Mac Mini i7 and upgraded the RAM. It is comparable to my Linux PC power-wise, but has had zero issues. I'm still using Ardour, the originated-on-linux DAW that I've been using forever. It's ported to Mac and can be downloaded for "pay what you want". I paid $5....which is insane for how much usage I've gotten from Ardour. The Mac plugins are a little better too. Sorry, Linux dudes. It's true.
Certainly, there are Mac programs that can handle synths (again, a bit better than Linux), and you can route those into Ardour. Or use garage band for tracking/composing and mix in something like Ardour that is more powerful. There are a lot of options and a lot of flexibility.
Look at it this way: your computer is your tape machine. You CAN build one yourself with parts made by volunteers that you may not be able to replace....or you could buy a Studer and get to work. Believe me, I know budgets are an issue, but it will save you time and headache and loss of work down the road to save up longer and buy reliable hardware.
Harrison makes a derivation of Ardour called Mixbus that I use for tracking and mixing, but no MIDI yet. It runs much like the old analog consoles, which I love. Sounds great with built in tape saturation. But, I'm an old guy that likes older work flows for recording.
Pro tools. It's not cheap, but it'll work on Microsoft or Apple OS. http://www.avid.com/US/product...
If you're interested in programming your own synthesizer software, then you're probably also interested in David Olofson's Audiality.
I've been using AVlinux for 5 years or so, with Reaper as main DAW. Lately its getting better for quick scoring and even MIDI work. I use a crappy old Dell tower and a shiny new Juli@ XTE card these days. PCI is way more solid than a USB interface, IMO.
I've also used KXStudio a bit, which is easier on the eyes, but I prefer the stripped-down, hot-rodded feel of AVlinux. Both are pretty good for a general use distro as well.
You're a jerk. He was just throwing something in that hat. Calm the fuck down.
Looks like "RTFT - Read The F*cking Title" needs to become the new baseline around here.
In your defense, the title is misleading. RTFS for you!
I was just talking to a friend who owns a Protools studios, he just went through some nasty downtime. I was also called to help troubleshoot a Sonar studio a while back. I have been using Linux / Ardour / Rosegarden / Hydrogen for years and pretty much have it down. Running a pro studio with it would require ready backup machines, (probably should be done with any OS). Here is a prog rock song, using 42 tracks in Ardour, Hydrogen. Mesa Boogie Mark IV into an SM57. Custom fanned fret guitar, Roland RD digital piano. http://www.think600.com/647mix...
That'll be linuxmusicians.com. Linuxmusician.com is just a parked domain.
This is very old experience because I was using MOTU Digital Performer 4 and it's now up to 8, but MOTU Digital Performer was by far the most intuitive interface I had ever used way back 12 years ago and based on that I highly recommend it. And now it will run on both Mac and Windows, though based on my way back experience I'd go with Mac. I tried Windows first to save money - that's when the hair loss started. Then got a Mac and my studio just worked.
Look for a reason to smile you jaded #*^ *(%$
I know it's not fashionable on Slashdot, but a Mac with Logic does everything you want to do. Logic even does notation reasonably well. I've used it to score string parts and it's fine. It isn't as good as Finale, but you can try it and see if it does what you want. It's $200 for Logic Pro X which pretty much gobbles up the difference between the cost of the mac and an equally equipped PC with Pro Tools. You'll still need IO, but that tends to not be terribly expensive. It also comes with boatloads of synths and samples, so you likely won't need to buy those (although I love everything that Native Instruments makes and highly recommend everything they make).
If you get more into the synthesis side of things, you can also check out Max/MSP. You can also check out PureData, if you want something open source. For your initial requirements, I think a mac running Logic Pro X is the best solution though, and could end up being the cheapest in an apples to apples comparison.
I use a mac with Ableton/MaxMSP live in a band setting and use Logic Pro X for recording anything multi-track where phase correlation matters (drums, live recordings, etc.). I use MOTU IO. I rarely have problems. The gear just works. I rarely spend time optimizing or fiddling with settings. I plug things in and it makes/records noise. I think those last four sentences are very important when making music.
If I sit down to record and get distracted by having to fuck with processes running in the background, or crackling and popping on my IO because my buffer settings aren't dialed in or because some errant process is causing things to hang momentarily every few minutes, that distracts me from making music. I love open source for a lot of things, but no one has really dialed in open source audio to the point where you're not constantly messing with it. Windows is actually the same way. Some people like that though. Some people don't mind spending time dialing things in, if it saves them some money. I'm not that guy though. I know that macs aren't immune to problems, but I have significantly fewer problems with background processes making my life difficult than I had with my windows boxes. Windows 8.1 might be better, I haven't tried it, but 8 had all the same irritating problems that 7 and XP had for me.
Anyway, that's my $0.02. I recommend a mac with Logic. It works great for me. Take lots of people's suggestions and see which ones align the most with what you're trying to do, and then run with it. Spend time making music and not worrying about your decision once you're running. There is an extraordinary amount of brilliant software out there. If you go with a PC and Reaper, you'll have more capability to make amazing music than was available even a few years ago, and it will be cheap. You can't really lose, regardless of the decision you make.
As expensive as other pro solutions, but without all the good tools.
"but I'm not so sure I want Windows 8"
It seems like for you this is a machine to run specific applications. So find the applications you want to run and let that decide the OS that you use. You only have to choose the OS if the application works across multiple OSs. If the best application is Windows only, use Windows, if Mac only, use a Mac, if Linux only, use Linux.
For me most of my time is spent gaming and a lot of the games I use only run under Windows. So I use Windows. I've used tons of OSs, they are all pretty much the same. I use them to run my applications. I can't remember the last time I actually interacted with an OS.
Lots of people complain to me about Windows 8 and I just don't get it. I rarely if ever have to mess with the OS. I just run my programs. That's worked perfectly for me. If all my games worked on Linux or Mac I don't see how the OS would matter. The games would play the same. Why would I care if one has metro, the other unity, etc.
is the Mac/Windows app Reaktor from Native Instruments... it's an incredibly powerful visual synthesis & DSP environment that has a large ecosystem of pre-built processors and instruments. Absolutely worth investigating for a true audio geek!
Clearly the poster you replied to is a bit, um, out of his element here, but to say that serious a/v work is not possible on apple hardware is patently and demonstrably false. Name one major vendor that doesn't ship for mac?
Obviously that will require external audio and midi interfaces, but that much is true of any laptop.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
I've looked for them, but never really found anything. So there is a good analog "modelling" synth? I would be interested in that. I'm too cheap to buy something like Diva or a model of a modular synth, since it's not really useful in my kind of music, but if there's an open source one, it would be cool to play around with.
amsynth is one analog modeling synth. https://code.google.com/p/amsy...
There are over 1,000 posts mentioning amsynth, many of them comparing other modeling synths, on linuxmusician.com .
As I mentioned a couple of times, this isn't really my area of expertise, but there are hundreds of people on linuxmusician who can give better answers than I can.
Get used professional MIDI tone modules on eBay for your musical instruments. The 10-20 year-old stuff is rapidly increasing in resale value so you can always resell any piece of equipment on eBay for what you paid for it.Get a Yamaha MOTIF, Korg Kronos, Roland Fantom G, or something in this class. The interfaces are awkward with lots of rack-mount front panel button pressing, but the sounds are good enough. You can build interactive MIDI controllers with Arduinos to overcome the inherent user-interface difficulties of these MIDI modules.
Try all the cheap and free software before buying anything. Anything that you buy that costs more than a few hundred dollars is going to make you sound like everyone else who bought the same program.
friends of mine put this together:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lmsfm/
Let's Make Some F--ing Music!
I'd bet there is an open source synth that is 98% what you want.
Another slashdotter pointed out something called csounds. It sounds like what I'm looking for in a synth. I'd have to put it in a VM since Sibelius or Final seem to be the best for notation, but it looks like my synth is already out there.
> However, the site linuxmusician.com says "This domain is for sale".
http://linuxmusicians.com/
I'm curious if you have any programs and configs you'd recommend for DJing on Linux, if that's more your personal focus.
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
Mixxx http://www.mixxx.org/ is one to look at. It has a bank of samplers, it does BPM detection and automatic beat matching, can be controlled by hardware such as a Hercules RMX, RePlay gain, automatic looping of X beat segments, etc.
It depends on what you want. Many years ago, when I did my "shopping" for software, I thought I wanted to beat match, do a lot of sampling, etc. In other words DJing as an artistic musical performance. Later, I found out that my clients aren't impressed by any of that. They are impressed when I get their wedding guests on the dance floor, which I can do by finding the right song at the right time, from a library of tens of thousands of songs, and by having ready access to historical playlists so I can see which sequences of songs worked well for the other events. In that respect a wedding D has completely different needs than a rave DJ. I actually have no use for mixing, beat matching, or sampling since I do weddings and the like.
It also depends of course on whether you want to use a hardware mixer, a software, or a hardware controller for a software mixer.
Having said all of that, Mixxx is pretty good all around. I use it sometimes. Other times, I use a hardware mixer, two instances of XMMS, "find", and some Perl scripts I whipped up. I've been a full time programmer for 16 years and I live at the command line, so whipping up some Perl scripts for playlist management made sense for me.
I'm glad you brought it up. I hadn't taken a close look at the most recent version of Mixxx in a while, not until you asked.
It looks like they added some good stuff.
Word!
Why don't you just use tape ? You have already consigned yourself into a technical corner by not recording midi/timecode etc. That is a good interface, but an entirely asinine policy. No midi huh.
You may as well ban guitars.
You can punch in ? Welcome to the 60's ?
I have used Ableton Live for many years. With the Python interface exposed by v9 and the addition of ClyphX (a scripting tool using the Python interface) I finally have the rig I want - capable of playing midi sequenced sections of songs and recording live vocals/guitar to be mixed as playback into later sections, with control provided via a pedalboard. The "programming" of the sequences is somewhat contrived, but it does work and is fairly logical, and the whole thing is fun to play with. I can solo over earlier rhythm parts, harmonise with myself on the later choruses, loop back into the bridge etc.
The other element that Ableton provides is tight sequencing and elastic audio - I can slow a chorus down a few beats and the audio will slow down to match without dropping pitch, so the performance can be as dynamic as I like.
I would have liked to try to do the same thing in Linux, but while there are scriptable DAWs and probably scriptable MIDI players, there is not the combination of the two and nothing does elastic audio like Ableton.
As for an OS - I couldn't afford a MBP so I got an i7 laptop running Windows 8 - I am resisting moving to 8.1 due to limited bandwidth at present. But the laptop is basically dedicated for music (or will be when I get my instruments out of the shipping container they are currently in).
Get a Mac. Or get dedicated hardware, like a mixer with an SD slot and basic recording. The Mac is the one and only general purpose system that is built for what you want to do. Not just at the application software level or user interface level, but in the OS subsystems and developer API's and hardware. Basically, I'm telling you to buy a computer with CoreAudio and CoreMIDI in it — you can't bolt those onto another system. A Mac comes out of the box doing what you want to do, and you can then optionally replace GarageBand with Logic (or Pro Tools or Performer or Ableton Live) and optionally replace the built-in (24/96) hardware with accessory hardware via USB, FireWire, or Thunderbolt. Even where you plan to run something like Ableton Live which is on both Mac and Windows, you will have a dramatically better experience on the Mac because you can do things like run AudioUnits plug-ins instead of VST to improve stability, and you can combine multiple audio interfaces into one, and you get reliable hardware connections through CoreAudio out-of-the-box.
Also, consider getting an iPad mini as a remote control. It runs MIDI mixer controls, pianos, drums, guitars — most of which can output MIDI over Wi-Fi to your Mac. Logic X has its own iPad app that runs it from the iPad and adds transport controls and mixer faders and so on and just works. The iPad will cost you $299, yet it will replace thousands of dollars of MIDI gear. And when you only have the iPad by itself, it becomes a complete pocket studio if you add an Apogee MiC or Jam. A7-based iPads can do 32 stereo tracks in GarageBand (earlier iPads do 8 stereo tracks.)
A big thing is that the Mac is where the user community is that is also doing what you want to do. So when you struggle with something, there will be someone who can help you dig out of that hole. But the struggles you have on the Mac will be creative, they will be musical, and there will be creative musicians who are fellow users and can help you out. The struggles on other platforms for musicians are often technical — you struggle just to get a timing or stability issue worked out and get the basic functionality that every single Mac user already has when the system comes out of the box. It is one of the most embarrassing things in computing — the lack of music and audio infrastructure in any operating systems other than Apple's. I wish it were not so — I would love to be able to tell you that any computer is good for music. But only Apple has ever made music and audio a priority on their systems. Only Apple built the infrastructure. Only Apple systems come out of the box as functioning music studios that you can then customize while maintaining that existing functionality.
Keep in mind that recording audio is a really high-stress computing task. You have to plug-in to audio interfaces with 96000 frames per second timing, you have to plug-in to 20 year old MIDI instruments, you have to run the CPU's under heavy load for hours and hours and hours without every crashing. There cannot be any crashes or you lose takes. No crashes at all can be tolerated. In many years in music, I've only ever seen Macs, iPads, iPhones do that amongst general purpose computers. To get that reliability otherwise, you need dedicated hardware.
I've worked at a few studio complexes where almost everybody is on Macs and a few guys for whatever reason are on PC's. It is embarrassing for Microsoft and PC hardware makers to see the difference side-by-side. You see a band of hardcore stoners who don't have a high school diploma between them and have barely ever touched a computer go into a room and successfully record their own original album with a $500 Mac mini, and next door to them is a guy who has a college degree who is paying another guy with a college degree $500 to get his $3000 Windows PC setup to stop crashing during recordings. Again and again, over and over, I've seen this. Don't be that guy. Don't bring a typewriter into a music studio and try to hook it up to a piano
will get you there
Mod up as informative.
If you are a student, you should be able to get Finale for much less than the full retail price (around 50% off, I believe). In fact, you can get discounts on a ton of software and hardware as a student, or even if you simply have a .edu email address. Some of the things I have purchased (CS5.5 Master Collection, Finale, etc) did require proof of enrollment at a school, but it's definitely worth it.
The place I go for academic discounts on software is academicsuperstore.com.