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Tesla's Having Issues Charging In the Cold
cartechboy writes "It's winter, and apparently meteorologists have just discovered the term Polar Vortex, as that seems to be the only thing they can talk about these days. But seriously, it's cold, and apparently the darling child of the automotive industry, the new Tesla Model S electric car, is having issues charging in the cold weather. It's being reported that the charging cables that come with the car are unable to provide a charge when the temperature dips below zero. As you can imagine, this is an issue in a country like Norway where the Model S is one of the most popular cars. In fact, it seems this issue has already left one Model S owner stranded with a dead battery nearly 100 miles from the nearest charging station. Other owners are reporting issues charging. Tesla's European sales chief Peter Bardenfleth-Hansen apologized for he inconvenience owners are facing, and said it's 'trying hard to resolve' the issue. Apparently the issues are simply down to the differences in the Norwegian network as Norway uses a slightly different charging adapter than other countries in Europe."
"below zero' Kelvin? (is that you, Frank Herbert?) Centigrade? Farenheit?
People disincentivized into buying electric cars, increasing CO2 emissions, raising planetary temperatures until electric cars work.
I'd think the batteries would be the problem. Running serious current through the wires should keep them warm even in cold weather. Plus, conductivity should go up with colder temperature.
Now the batteries on the other hand.... Batteries don't hold charge very well in the cold. It's been one of the two big problems for electric cars since the 19th century.
newsflash: batteries generate electricty from stored chemical energy
Yes, it's related to the cold, but it also appears to be related to the specific issues of Norway's grid.
Some speculation is that the problem involves too-extreme fluctuations in the electricity provided by that grid and a charger-side software-mediated shutoff of charging. If that's the case, then this might be another charger issue that can be solved with an over-the-air "patch" like some of the previous problems.
While this is definitely a concern for Tesla and their Norwegian customers, it doesn't seem to be relevant to cars in North America.
Then we'll have to go out on Tauntauns
Well, as the joke goes here in Sweden:
Why are there no mental asylums in Norway?
It'd cost too much to put walls and a roof over the whole country....
Weird, eh?
I used to work in Northern Canada where all the US and some of the European manufacturers used to do cold weather testing. (The toolsets and options differ in North America which is why separate testing was done for Europe.) The Asian manufacturers were also doing cold testing there but their labs and warehouses ended up with all of the crappy real estate.
Did anyone seriously think the cold wouldn't be an issue? People need to get out of California and see what the rest of the world is like.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Because many of us are interested. Tesla, love'em or hate'm are trying to sell a pure electric car without the compromises at a price at least a segment of the mass market can afford. There are ton's of technical hurdles to doing that and its interesting to watch theory and design encounter real world conditions.
Tesla is somewhat unique in this area too, Yes there is all electric Leaf and that strange i-Miev thing but neither of those comes anywhere near offering the range and performance characteristics of what most of us Americans expect from our ICE powered vehicles, in other words they make compromises, where as most Slashdoter's would be quite pleased with the Tesla compared to their current ride, provided it continues to live up to expectations.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
No, meteorologists have understood the term Polar Vortex for decades. Weathermen, newscasters, and ratings-minded producers have only just discovered the term.
apparently the darling child of the automotive industry
What's with the snide side commentary? Tesla isn't the "darling" of anyone. Snide, obnoxious comments like this are pretty much du jour in any coverage. Everyone's gunning for them, simply because they're odd kid on the block.
A Tesla catches fire after hitting a piece of massive road debris or getiting into a crash, and it's a fucking national emergency, their stock tanks, electric cars are suddenly "unsafe", etc.
Meanwhile: do you drive a Ford SUV made in the 90's? Twice, Ford weakened the roof and support pillars to save money, against the recommendation of their engineers.
Drive a 90's Ford? Their ignition switches were substandard and could short out, causing your car to catch fire at random. 8.6 million vehicles: http://articles.baltimoresun.c...
Drive a recent GM truck? They've also got a "randomly burst into fire" problem; 370,000 vehicles: http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/1...
Just google "GM recall fire" or "Ford recall fire" and read page after page of recalls that affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of vehicles.
Please help metamoderate.
The name Tesla also holds a special place in geek culture. Choosing that as name for an electric car manufacture puts a greater expectation on the product.
What's next, are we going to post about a gasoline car not starting (am actually trying to help someone jumpstart their ICE right now, maybe I can get featured too)?
Anyways, just last week, someone made the trip from NYC to LA in his Tesla Model S, seen temps in the -20F range, and the car was just fine. I'm driving my EV in these same temps, no issues either (ignoring the lower range).
This is not a battery issue as some people seem to indicate.
I'd advise Slashdot readers to take their typical tack, and not read the linked articles. They are crap. However (again, much like Slashdot), the comments can be enlightening.
What I'm seeing there is:
a) This is not about the cold, or winter at all. Its been a problem since they started delivering vehicles in August.
b) Due to all the bad press (from poor journalists such as these) over fires from improperly overcharged batteries, Tesla charging cables now try to detect when a battery is fully-charged and stop the charging process.
c) They do this by looking for changes in the current flow through them.
d) Norway's power grid is so dirty that it is fooling the cables. That's the issue, near as I can tell.
good old gas and diesel cars always work when it's below freezing.
I am in the middle of the polar vortex (-13F today) and haven't been having any issues charging my Tesla. I also haven't heard of anyone else in MN having charging issues. This really appears to be a Norwegian issue moreso than a general Tesla + cold issue.
Do you live in Norway?
Do you have any basis for making recommendations for what Norwegians should do?
The Tesla actually provides a very good value proposition in Norway because of the way petrol-based cars are taxed (and electrical cars are not). Hence the Tesla being so popular in Norway.
Also, diesel-based cars can struggle in cold weather. For instance p, whenever I go on a mountain trip in winter in Norway I need to make sure that I fill petrol in the cold part of the country as the diesel being sold there is adjusted to handle the cold, whereas diesel from my hometown probably won't work below minus 15 degC.
Some example of a guy stuck 100 miles away from a charging station as a result... AWAY.
If it was a charging issue, then shouldn't he still be at the charging station? If his voltage meter? was indicating the wrong amount, this has nothing to do with the charging station. If it was reading correctly as "low" and he opted to drive 100 miles into the middle of nowhere isn't that the fault of a stupid driver?
Anyway I think you summarized all the points, but I am still left wondering why (how) that left a man stranded 100 miles from a charging station...
Here's a must see link for us weather nerds...
http://earth.nullschool.net/
make sure to tune into the 10 hPa setting and watch the polar vortex do its thing.
Thank you supercomputer...
Tesla (and battery powered cars in general) being fundamentally broken in cold weather...
A problem unique to the Tesla charging cables supplied in Norway is not "fundamentally broken" let alone having any significance to battery powered cars in general.
Tesla just needs to fix the problem and distribute new cables to Norwegian customers. Big fucking deal.
Methinks you have an axe to grind, and truth isn't important to you.
Norway, on the other hand, has 230 V between the phases and is completely isolated from the ground. With a perfectly balanced load you can expect ~127 V ground-phase, but the voltage can stray far away from that. This is an IT system (Insulated Terra). The Tesla charging cable is quite picky with the grounding, so it isn't working as it should.
This has nothing to do with the connectors, which are the same in Norway as in Germany or France.
And the reason this story is in the news is because internal combustion engines never have problems in cold weather.
I don't think most people are unaware or haven't experienced cold weather related problems with traditional ICE powered cars. We also know most of the time (modern cars anyway) they work just fine even in very cold conditions. On the other hand many of us have little or no experience with pure electric cars. So the failure modes and frequencies are in fact interesting whatever they may be, because my guess is at some point many of us will own an all electric car.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
My Nissan Leaf works perfectly during the Norwegian winter, and the Tesla owners I know here in Norway are very satisfied with their cars. They have had some charging problems, though. This has nothing to do with the connectors (which are the same as in Germany and France), and everything to do with the strange grounding system used here. In short: Both wires are live, we have 230 V between the phases (all three), and ground is, well, somewhere, who knows really. This is what seems to confuse the Tesla charging cable as it believes it has detected a ground fault and shuts down. As third party charging cables work perfectly, Tesla probably needs to redesign the charging cable in Norway and give a new one to every customer.
Perhaps you shouldn't give such strong advice on topics you are not that familiar with?
Let's see...Norway has a crappy grid that's giving Teslas problems, it's cold in Norway, so let's title this "Teslas Having Issues Charging in the Cold". Journalistic ethics, how do they work?
Look, I think Elon Musk is a jerk, I'll probably never own a Tesla, but the Tesla-bashing hype is getting old. And stupid.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Let's face it. Norway is often very cold in the winter.
Not particularly cold, given how far north we are due to the Gulf stream and particularly if you live near the coastline - and Norway is a lot of coastline. In the capital, the lowest temp last year was -17.2C, just above 0F, the average in the winter months is just below freezing. True, if I pick one of the coldest cities on the coldest nights it might be -30C, but that's rare.
If you fuck up and buy a 'green' car that won't start in the cold, then you die in the cold.
Oh please, it might be a big inconvienience calling a tow truck but nobody's going to die. If you're at home and it won't charge, stay home. If you're at a charging station there will be houses nearby. And if it breaks down in the middle of nowhere on a night with -30C then you're equally screwed as in an ICE car.
And there is this briefly mentioned problem of the fucking Norwegian electrical connectors not mating with standard electric car connectors...
Here we're talking about quite regular home connectors, we use the "Schuko" plug used in most of Europe or alternatively the IEC 60309 industrial plugs for faster charging, both very standard in Europe but different than the US. I guess that's what they're talking about since there's few other Teslas on the road in the colder parts of Europe.
The charging problems mentioned here have by the way been solved in a software patch already, Norwegian papers covered that on last saturday. With charging stations popping up in more and more places, rather abundant and cheap electric power and very nice tax breaks on electric cars I can assure you Tesla will continue to sell well in Norway.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I live in Chicago, Illinois, where the outdoor temperature last night was -15 F. Windchill, -40F.
I had to promise my car that I'd wax it every weekend this summer if she would just start this morning.
My wife's car, 10 years newer than mine, did not start at all. Heavy snow followed by deep freeze is hell on internal combustion engines that are not kept in a heated garage overnight. I was sarcastically trying to make the point that suddenly these journalists have discovered that cars don't do well in record cold temperatures, but only the electric ones. I don't feel like reading this press release, but I'll bet the story didn't mention that probably 1/3 of the cars in Chicago couldn't start this morning.
You are welcome on my lawn.