Slashdot Mirror
Tesla's Having Issues Charging In the Cold
cartechboy writes "It's winter, and apparently meteorologists have just discovered the term Polar Vortex, as that seems to be the only thing they can talk about these days. But seriously, it's cold, and apparently the darling child of the automotive industry, the new Tesla Model S electric car, is having issues charging in the cold weather. It's being reported that the charging cables that come with the car are unable to provide a charge when the temperature dips below zero. As you can imagine, this is an issue in a country like Norway where the Model S is one of the most popular cars. In fact, it seems this issue has already left one Model S owner stranded with a dead battery nearly 100 miles from the nearest charging station. Other owners are reporting issues charging. Tesla's European sales chief Peter Bardenfleth-Hansen apologized for he inconvenience owners are facing, and said it's 'trying hard to resolve' the issue. Apparently the issues are simply down to the differences in the Norwegian network as Norway uses a slightly different charging adapter than other countries in Europe."
"below zero' Kelvin? (is that you, Frank Herbert?) Centigrade? Farenheit?
Why is every Tesla fart reported on ./?
People disincentivized into buying electric cars, increasing CO2 emissions, raising planetary temperatures until electric cars work.
What's with all the anti-Tesla articles?
I am reminded why most lifeforms has been storing energy chemically, as opposed to electrically, for billions of years.
Batteries are having trouble charging in the cold!?! Nah, that never happens! /sarcasm
rock on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKpCGjD8wg&list=PL456D453B409DF8D1
I'd think the batteries would be the problem. Running serious current through the wires should keep them warm even in cold weather. Plus, conductivity should go up with colder temperature.
Now the batteries on the other hand.... Batteries don't hold charge very well in the cold. It's been one of the two big problems for electric cars since the 19th century.
Apparently the issues are simply down to the differences in the Norwegian network as Norway uses a slightly different charging adapter than other countries in Europe.
There is a right way, a wrong way, and a Norwegian way. --Edgar Hansen, Northwestern, Deadliest Catch
I'm shocked I tell you! Well, not really because it's cold out and the batteries aren't charged.
Electric cars, LOL
Dumb idea, they'll never work
Yes, it's related to the cold, but it also appears to be related to the specific issues of Norway's grid.
Some speculation is that the problem involves too-extreme fluctuations in the electricity provided by that grid and a charger-side software-mediated shutoff of charging. If that's the case, then this might be another charger issue that can be solved with an over-the-air "patch" like some of the previous problems.
While this is definitely a concern for Tesla and their Norwegian customers, it doesn't seem to be relevant to cars in North America.
Then we'll have to go out on Tauntauns
Tesla was having issues charging.
Nope, no bias in the summary at all. I couldn't possibly imagine anything other than a "just the facts" linked article.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
They should be more like the japanese: underpromise and overdeliver!
Weird, eh?
I used to work in Northern Canada where all the US and some of the European manufacturers used to do cold weather testing. (The toolsets and options differ in North America which is why separate testing was done for Europe.) The Asian manufacturers were also doing cold testing there but their labs and warehouses ended up with all of the crappy real estate.
Did anyone seriously think the cold wouldn't be an issue? People need to get out of California and see what the rest of the world is like.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Give me an MP3 player which has the following features:
1. OpenBSD
2. TrueCrypt - choice of encrypting all of device with 1st run and in settings
3. Rip from any device - an extension to the device (like the front part of ST:TNG ship's dish which separates for example) which allows CDs to be inserted and ripped on the fly without a computer connection, and the ability to plug into any electronic device which has the ability to contain audio files, scan for, and rip any audio files - all with the option to convert them to a format of your choosing
4. Complete support of as many audio/image/video codecs as possible.
5. Nothing about the device should be proprietary, neither hardware or software.
Before you say, "Why would you want to use a device with the MP3 format?" As #4 points out, and you should really know unless you're trolling, if you look at all of the MP3 players currently for sale, most support many audio, image (JPG and more) and sometimes several video formats.
This is like saying a car is bad because the gas hose does not fit when it gets cold.
It is not an issue with the car.
And "dips below zero" would be a poor threshold.
We have windshield washer fluid that is rated to -50C (-58F) for a good reason.
Yet another product the manufacture didn't bother to actually test in the conditions the average person might expect to use said product.
No, meteorologists have understood the term Polar Vortex for decades. Weathermen, newscasters, and ratings-minded producers have only just discovered the term.
apparently the darling child of the automotive industry
What's with the snide side commentary? Tesla isn't the "darling" of anyone. Snide, obnoxious comments like this are pretty much du jour in any coverage. Everyone's gunning for them, simply because they're odd kid on the block.
A Tesla catches fire after hitting a piece of massive road debris or getiting into a crash, and it's a fucking national emergency, their stock tanks, electric cars are suddenly "unsafe", etc.
Meanwhile: do you drive a Ford SUV made in the 90's? Twice, Ford weakened the roof and support pillars to save money, against the recommendation of their engineers.
Drive a 90's Ford? Their ignition switches were substandard and could short out, causing your car to catch fire at random. 8.6 million vehicles: http://articles.baltimoresun.c...
Drive a recent GM truck? They've also got a "randomly burst into fire" problem; 370,000 vehicles: http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/1...
Just google "GM recall fire" or "Ford recall fire" and read page after page of recalls that affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of vehicles.
Please help metamoderate.
highly charged oil addict burlesque rhettorhea about almost nothing is not new... ask noam promotion going well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CKpCGjD8wg&list=PL456D453B409DF8D1 some still calling this 'weather'? http://www.globalresearch.ca/weather-warfare-beware-the-us-military-s-experiments-with-climatic-warfare/7561
My conventional engine pickup won't start when it's cold. Heck, I'm having trouble getting up myself this winter. This old man doesn't really see the issue here.
...the charging cables that come with the car are unable to provide a charge when the temperature dips below zero.
Um, Dear Editors (Slashdot and Green Car Reports), The "cables" can't provide a charge?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'm really tired of these articles popping up before the issue is fully diagnosed. I understand the media's need/want to be the first to break the story, but what story is really here?
All we know is that the car is possibly having charging problems in an isolated area. With none of the variables worked out, or the root of the problem fully diagnosed, why is the media once again so quick to blame the Tesla?
Am thinking the new Wall Chargers and/or the Software update are causing problems. When it gets cold electrical junction tended to shrink away from each other. The junctions rarely open but instead loose current carrying ability. Normally though this isn't too big a deal because they under go ohmic heating when the current gets high enough. Some Wattage is lost maintaining the temperature at the junction but it's usually very small and self regulating.(More heat causes less resistance in this case making a self regulating loop) I have even see this happen at room temperature where the junction would heat fixing it self. However, Tesla has made it so that charging system checks for bad junctions and if it detects them it ether turns off or charges slowly. Obviously, this prevents the junction from heating up and fixing it self.
What's next, are we going to post about a gasoline car not starting (am actually trying to help someone jumpstart their ICE right now, maybe I can get featured too)?
Anyways, just last week, someone made the trip from NYC to LA in his Tesla Model S, seen temps in the -20F range, and the car was just fine. I'm driving my EV in these same temps, no issues either (ignoring the lower range).
This is not a battery issue as some people seem to indicate.
...on the slightly-different-connector-excuse, and here's why:
- The voltage is the same (230V@50Hz)
- The connectors are interchangable (The only difference being the layout of the grounding pins, but support for both are required)
- If Tesla has supplied adapters that operate differently based on the socket in use (Scandinavia vs (most of) rest of Europe) they are breaching EU regulations (Yes, those regulations cover Norway, despite not being an EU member)
This is like a paper manufacturer experiencing problems with people using red pens instead of blue on their white cellulose based product.
As much as i like Tesla and their cars, this explanation is just lame.
I'd advise Slashdot readers to take their typical tack, and not read the linked articles. They are crap. However (again, much like Slashdot), the comments can be enlightening.
What I'm seeing there is:
a) This is not about the cold, or winter at all. Its been a problem since they started delivering vehicles in August.
b) Due to all the bad press (from poor journalists such as these) over fires from improperly overcharged batteries, Tesla charging cables now try to detect when a battery is fully-charged and stop the charging process.
c) They do this by looking for changes in the current flow through them.
d) Norway's power grid is so dirty that it is fooling the cables. That's the issue, near as I can tell.
If you live in Norway, stick with proven technology. Like gasoline engines. Let's face it. Norway is often very cold in the winter. Cold enough that people die from cold unless they have machines to keep them warm. When you live in places that have extreme weather, you HAVE to accept that proven working technology like gasoline-engines-for -transportation overrides any emotional feelings of needing to serve as a test site for so-called green technology. In California it doesn't matter. But Norway's not California. If you fuck up and buy a 'green' car that won't start in the cold, then you die in the cold. Act accordingly. Nobody in California gives a shit whether or not you freeze to death because their technology failed.
This very expensive automobile has demonstratively failed to meet the needs of people who live north of the 55th meridian. Norwegians should not buy it. Buy a Volvo: Swedes understand cold and their cars can be coaxed to start in extremely cold weather.
And there is this briefly mentioned problem of the fucking Norwegian electrical connectors not mating with standard electric car connectors... You'all need to find the guy responsible for this, strip him to underwear, and dump out into the snow. Be sure to leave him with an electric heater that has a plug that just quite doesn't fit into the socket needed to stay alive. If he lives, then he won't be doing stupid shit like this any more. If he dies, well, just one more soul sacrifice to the Viking gods.
So, the company is having trouble charging?
One Tesla is having trouble charging?
FTFA: "The issues are simply down to differences in the Norwegian network that Tesla has not experienced elsewhere"
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
good old gas and diesel cars always work when it's below freezing.
I am in the middle of the polar vortex (-13F today) and haven't been having any issues charging my Tesla. I also haven't heard of anyone else in MN having charging issues. This really appears to be a Norwegian issue moreso than a general Tesla + cold issue.
'below zero' Kelvin?
Winter
In winter much of Norway is usually transformed into a snow-clad paradise.
The lower inland areas, both in the southern and northern parts of Norway, can have very low mean temperatures in winter. Temperatures can reach below -40 F/-40 C in the inner areas of Finnmark, Troms, Trondelag and Eastern Norway, even if this does not happen each winter.
By contrast, the coastal areas have comparatively mild winters. However, gales, rain and clouds can be frequent and heavy.
Seasons and climate in Norway
It doesn't matter whether you measure temperature in degrees Fahrenheit or Centigrade. What matters is whether you can keep your Tesla on the road through a Nordic winter.
I have a Chevy Volt at present. This recent cold weather snap has made it MORE expensive to drive around than my 2 year old gas car. It went from 44 miles on a charge to just barely making it to 25. I am interested if the Tesla has a similar reduction in range, and certainly in what else gets effected in the severe cold.
I complain about the submission author's bias and general bias against Tesla, and you mod it offtopic?
Time to start meta-moderating more.
Please help metamoderate.
Third grade grammar: learn it. Nerds are not supposed to be illiterate.
Some example of a guy stuck 100 miles away from a charging station as a result... AWAY.
If it was a charging issue, then shouldn't he still be at the charging station? If his voltage meter? was indicating the wrong amount, this has nothing to do with the charging station. If it was reading correctly as "low" and he opted to drive 100 miles into the middle of nowhere isn't that the fault of a stupid driver?
Anyway I think you summarized all the points, but I am still left wondering why (how) that left a man stranded 100 miles from a charging station...
Going on inside a prog's mind: my environmental car won't charge unless it's warmer, but global warming will fix my car. Mind gets stuck in a paradox loop and head explodes. Rest of the planet returns to normal.
To the editors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/...
It is either "Tesla is..." or "Teslas".
"Have you solved the icing problem?"
- Tony Stark
Mercedes bursts into flames on the freeway? Doesn't make the news.
Tesla bursts into flames on the freeway? Front page of Slashdot!
Chevy won't start when it's minus 40 degrees? "Yup. They do that."
Tesla won't charge when it's minus 40 degrees? Front page of Slashdot!
Whatever the shadowy consortium of conventional car dealers is paying you guys, it's worth every penny. Keep it up.
0 1 - just my two bits
... you would have stated that the gas pumps were inoperable when you tried filling your tank. This isn't about an end user being a moron who left himself stranded 100 miles from the nearest gas station. It's about an end user left without the expected charge functionality of the car due to the cold. Two decidedly different issues. I'll leave you to guess which one is the actual moron.
Because there are people who do not want to see non-internal combustion cars succeed. For various reasons.
And the reason this story is in the news is because internal combustion engines never have problems in cold weather.
Who do you think pumps more advertising dollars into the media? Companies that are focused on electric cars or companies who primarily make cars that are driven by internal combustion? Do you expect to see more commercials during the Super BowlTM for the Tesla or Chevrolet pickup trucks? And what's the over-under on how many of those Chevy Silverado commercials will be blatantly homoerotic to appeal to the red-blooded, tight jeans and flannel shirt wearing, hairy-chested, gun toting, Red State macho men who want Peyton Manning to bend them over a lay-z-boy and hit the hole in a off-tackle trap to their 2 gap. On one. Omaha.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Plus you have a nice warm, smelly emergency shelter. Don't forget your lightsaber.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Here's a must see link for us weather nerds...
http://earth.nullschool.net/
make sure to tune into the 10 hPa setting and watch the polar vortex do its thing.
Thank you supercomputer...
But your Tauntaun will freeze before you reach the first marker!
n/t
Siberian peoples with local minus 40 Celsius smile and wave. :)
Let's see...Norway has a crappy grid that's giving Teslas problems, it's cold in Norway, so let's title this "Teslas Having Issues Charging in the Cold". Journalistic ethics, how do they work?
Look, I think Elon Musk is a jerk, I'll probably never own a Tesla, but the Tesla-bashing hype is getting old. And stupid.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
The thousands of dead batteries are on old cars that have batteries out of warranty, that will start with just a jump, and can recharge the **old** dead battery enough to run for a while in 5 minutes. This is not a $100K toy who's main selling point is a brand new battery that runs it.
oil etc.. addiction
*Teslas
Your tauntauns will freeze before you reach the first marker.
Don't you mean the darling child of old rich people who never drive further than 50km in any direction? The tesla isn't helping anyone besides tesla.
Just warm it up by having a battery fire. Easy to do I hear ;-)
Table-ized A.I.
Then we'll have to go out in Tauntauns
FTFY
Batteries don't like the cold. This is inevitable and just physics/chemistry in action. If battery powered cars are going to work in cold conditions then then preheaters of the batteries will be required. For combustion based engines preheaters of the engine block are required but they do at least have the theoretical option of burning fuel to heat the engine upto a usable temperature. This is just something that battery based vehicles are going to have to deal with. If they need to have a feature to dump some power to heat things up then so be it - that is just the way that batteries are going to work but it is not a show stopper - just something that needs to be designed in.
I thought we already established this last winter when a New York Times reporter detailed his disastrous journey from Washington to Boston. Tesla is an $90,000 joke. But have fun with it if you feel the need to save the planet (and line that charlatan Elon Musk's pockets).
an ill wind that blows no good
after a day outside at -20C, i plug my samsung note 1 and got the message "charging pause, battery too cold"
Let's use the battery to heat the system so we can charge it!
Oh wait...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The cable doesn't know anything about the battery state. The cable is a souped-up extension cord with some protection and detection. The charger in the car does the charging, it knows the battery state. The EVSE (the proper name of this cable) is not supposed to shut off when the current goes down, the charger in the car will take care of that.
The car has always stopped charging at full, since trickle charging a Li-Ion battery is a great way to put excess wear on it.
Tesla's EVSE may be cutting off due to power problems. While it may not be Tesla's fault specifically, this would be an issue Tesla has to address.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
It could be Mr. Tesla who's having problems charging in the cold, probably because he's dead.
It could be Tesla the company which is having problems charging in the cold. (Tesla's an American company, and American English treats a company name as a singular noun, unlike British English which treats it as a plural noun.)
It could be that the author meant that Tesla Cars are having issues charging in the cold, and mistakenly pluralized them as "Tesla's" instead of "Teslas".
It could be that the author meant that the Tesla S is having issues charging in the cold, or that Tesla S Cars are, and really mistakenly punctuated it.
I'm guessing the third was most likely.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Depends on battery chemistry. Most electric/hybrid cars seem to be congregating around Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries, which generally shouldn't be charged in the cold... it can cause lithium plating to accumulate on the anodes and if done repeatedly can eventually compromise the safety of the battery packs. Discharging (using) them below freezing is OK, but charging is not.
Just avoid the Tauntaun Model S. It fails to eat at any zero degrees.
> in Minnesota every cold snap results in thousands of dead batteries. The number one call out for tow truck companies out here isn't a flat tire but a dead battery.
Soviet made cars (including Lada, a licenced, modified copy of the italian Fiat 124) are equipped with a hole in the front fender, for hand-crank attachment, to start the engine in battery-killing cold. Their trucks also feature a hand-crankable flywheel and / or a compressed air tank that can rotate the diesel engine until compression-based self ignition starts.
The famous T-34 battle tank features all three for its 30 liter engine: heavy-duty batteries, comp. air tanks and a hand-crankable flywheel. That's how one was paraded in the streets of Budapest during the 2006 revolution. The batteries and the crank-arm were removed, but a pensioner remembered the beast can also be started via air tank.
I have purchased multiple keyboards over the years, and as the lettering or dirt soils the unit, I replace same. Most of these are not deep dished on the keytops, and have that grating feeling when depressing a key.
My IBM keyboard with the ps2 plug was borrowed by my grandchild, and the plug was damaged by her, when she tryed to reinsert the plug into the socket.
Is it possible to just snip off the ps2 plug and put on a USB2 one in its place, or is there a big difference between keyboard electronics manufactured with one or the other?
My other option, probably what I may do, is open up the keyboard, and replace the full cable. Before I regret taking the wrong action, your advice would be appreciated.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
I have similar batteries - LiFePO.. I assumed, because I read it everywhere on the net, that the cold could destroy them, or ast least affect it's ability to contain a charge, so I have delayed replacing my lead acid batteries on my bike because of that. Was that an old wives tale then? Or is that the reason that Teslas use the (potentially) more dangerous Lithium Ion batteries, because they're better in the cold? And please, no snarky comments about how Lithium Ion are "safe" They are, *unless* a spike is driven through them or they are improperly charged, when they can explode.
...anyone who has taken a laptop or cellphone on a cold mountain camping trip. But then I read the comments above by those much more learned than me, and I realize I probably don't know what I'm talking about!
It is, is it?
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
In 2008 Gore assured the world that the northern polar ice cap would be gone. Gore also said we will reach the point of no return regarding global warming by 2016. So no worries EV owners, keep believing and your dead cars will be dead no more. As for me, a wool sweater and a car with an Internal combustion engine-
It's kinda surprising that there aren't EV equivalents of block heaters to keep the batteries warm and not waste charge warming up the cabin.