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Fire Destroys Iron Mountain Data Warehouse, Argentina's Bank Records Lost

Posted by Soulskill on from the offsite-backups-are-for-wimps dept.

cagraham writes "A fire at Iron Mountain's data warehouse in Buenos Aires left the facility 'ruined' and killed nine first-responders, according to the Washington Post. The origin of the fire is unknown. The facility was supposedly equipped with sprinkler systems, fire control systems, and had a private emergency team on standby. Among the records destroyed are Argentina's bank archives, the loss of which could have some surprisingly far-reaching implications."

101 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by cheesybagel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Kewl.

    1. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The obvious question is: Cui bono? Do any of Kirchner's henchmen have a gasoline odor on their hands?

    2. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's more like Shell having the gasoline in their hands, if any of the accusations of the Argentinian government are true, since it seems Shell is trying to destabilize the Argentinian economy, they raised the price of gasoline 12% and have made some speculative monetary moves that are devaluating the Argentinian peso lately.

    3. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is it wrong that when I hear about some strange calamity befalling a leftist leader in South American that I immediately think "CIA"?

      Nah, those guys are pretty honest and good-hearted. I can't see them doing anything nasty in South America.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    4. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder how effective that would actually be... If a national bank decided to destroy a large amount of debt records and then simply refused to acknowledge foreign debts without extensive documentation?

      In the UK if you dispute a debt the onus is on the lender to prove it exists. Quite often with old debts they have lost the paperwork and end up having to drop them.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The stupidity of your comment is in fetishising the CIA. They really aren't the only people capable of acting badly.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Nutria · · Score: 3, Informative

      If a national bank decided to destroy a large amount of debt records and then simply refused to acknowledge foreign debts without extensive documentation?

      Your logic is completely ass backwards, since the foreigners will have the original loan records, not the Argentines.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    7. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by garyebickford · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In the last 120 years, Argentina has singlehandedly destroyed their own economy a total of three separate times. In 1910 Argentina was a 'first world' state, IIRC the fifth largest in the world. Then Peron got elected, and almost his first act was to pull all of the gold out of their national bank and spend it.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    8. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by garyebickford · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That happened here in the US for a number of home loans - their loans had been shuffled so many times between institutions that some borrowers successfully argued in foreclosure proceedings that there was no evidence that the foreclosing party actually owned the loan.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    9. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 2

      If a national bank decided to destroy a large amount of debt records and then simply refused to acknowledge foreign debts without extensive documentation?

      Your logic is completely ass backwards, since the foreigners will have the original loan records, not the Argentines.

      Abolishing foreign debt is one of the 5 ways to eliminate debt and you don't need to destroy records to do it.

      Germany was having significant financial problems in the 1930's; which actually allowed Hitler to gain control. Once in power he basically said "fuck you" to all foreign debts - as that was the previous government's doing. That will ruin your country's credit rating, so he just pillaged all of Europe instead.

    10. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by sribe · · Score: 2

      Billy The Kid was a hero to many in the west not merely because he "stood up to the man", but because in the middle of a depression, when he robbed the banks, he burned them on the way out, thus destroying the only copies of mortgages and freeing many from impending foreclosure...

    11. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by starcraftsicko · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do you have any record of this?

    12. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Obviously you don't know squat about my country's economy or the facts which led to this. Argentinian justice department was investigating a massive fraud commited mostly by US based companies sucha as Monsanto and Shell, and several international baks were impled in the maneuver, the HSBC to name one. This fire looks more a way to cover up for that fraud. If you'd like to exercise your memory, I recommend you to take a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Incorporate]trip down Wikipedia lane[/url]. Iron Mountain has a long history of destroying their own facilites to safeguard their customer's data from Justice investigations.

    13. Re: So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Until today, I did.

    14. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Max+Threshold · · Score: 2

      Give them a break. They're just trying to emulate the United States.

    15. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And in response most states enacted laws requiring that the mortgage be paid off before it could be challenged in court. Of course once its paid off... who the fuck cares? Result: Literally millions of fraudulent foreclosures. It was so bad that there were legal documents being presented in federal court signed with the name of an employee of the bank that could not be found. The bank had absolutely no record of anybody by that name ever working for the bank. The bank had made up a name and the signing of the documents was fictitious. But because the law required that you pay off, or otherwise post a cash bond for the amount of a loan, before you could challenge it... the fraud was allowed to stand in federal court unquestioned.
      Source: I was a mortgage broker in California and watched this happen first hand.

      Oh, I will add too... that with the law so protective of the lenders... they got bold. I dealt regularly with court documents where the value of the home, interest rate, mortgage value were all different than what was on the original wet ink signature documents (that I kept scanned copies of). I tried several times to submit my scanned copies to the court as the mortgage broker involved (showing that the lender was fraudulently foreclosing...) in the original transaction but was stymied every time. Any evidence submitted by the defense was essentially void until a bond had been posted for the same amount as the outstanding mortgage. The judge would not even listen to any discussion about inconsistencies, possible perjury, fraud or anything until we paid the bond to gain standing in court. We tried that route and the lowest we could find was 90% equity on a bond. Meaning we had to put up 90% of the value of the mortgage just to fight it in court. When you are fighting over a $700,000 mortgage... who has that kind of scratch just sitting around? If you do... $630,000 is most likely pocket change to you.

      I will never, ever, ever buy a house in the united states after witnessing that.

    16. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by brakarific · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here is a historical breakdown of why Argentina is where it is (summary: it has absolutely nothing to do with Shell):

      - Starting with Nestor Kirchner (Christina Kirchner's husband), there were a ton of social programs started that basically bankrupted the already bankrupt country

      - In order to keep funding said programs, Argentina decides it doesn't want to pay it's foreign debts anymore, especially to the US. Argentina claimed that they had already paid back well beyond the original loan amounts. Simply put, they didn't like the terms of the loans and decided to threaten defaulting. The IMF threatened to put them on credit blacklist which drove their borrowing interest rates up even higher. In the end they restructured their debt, but like all spending problems, it is never the math that causes massive debt, but behavior.

      - Fast forward to about a year or two ago. Christina Kirchner keeps spending on social programs with no way to pay for them and is facing massive devaluation of the Argentine Peso. Investors and individuals start buying up dollars and euros before the peso collapses. Kirchner bans the exchange of foreign currencies in Argentina.

      -Fast foward to a couple of weeks ago. Argentine economists fear a massive bubble is building over the artificially propped up peso and convince Kirchner and politicians to open up foreign exchanges before the bubble gets so big that its collapse will crater the country like it did in 2001. You can read more about that incident's culmination here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

      - As a result of foreign exchanges opening up the bubble pops and the peso loses 15% of its value in less than 12 hours.

      -Foreign companies that operate in dollars or euros have to raise prices. Commodities tied to dollars or euros are always the first to rise. Oil is probably the most exposed to this as all Oil selling countries have to sell Oil in dollars.

      -After a week of rapid inflation, Shell raises it's prices, and...drumroll...SO DO ALL OTHER GAS STATIONS TIED TO IMPORTED OIL.

      It bothers me that people are always so quick to crucify companies (in this case oil companies) just because it is the popular thing to do. Those dirtbag Politicians in Argentina are no different than the dirtbag politicians we have here in the US. Their arguments consist of blaming anyone but themselves for domestic policy disasters. Just like Bush blamed Terrorists, Obama blamed Bush, and whoever comes next will blame Obama. Down there, they just say "Those damned European/American money grubbing corporations are doing this to us!" Sadly, like here in the US, the people there buy it hook line and sinker.

      Sources - Reading the news, living in Argentina for a few years (2003 - 2005), and having a basic understanding of macro economics and currency valuations.

    17. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by brakarific · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Obviously you don't know squat about my country's economy or the facts which led to this. Argentinian justice department was investigating a massive fraud commited mostly by US based companies sucha as Monsanto and Shell, and several international baks were impled in the maneuver, the HSBC to name one. This fire looks more a way to cover up for that fraud. If you'd like to exercise your memory, I recommend you to take a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Incorporate]trip down Wikipedia lane[/url]. Iron Mountain has a long history of destroying their own facilites to safeguard their customer's data from Justice investigations.

      Shell is European. Yes they probably committed fraud in one form or another. Unfortunately, it is the fraud of your elected officials that is to blame for your overall problems right now in regards to your economy tanking. In classic political fashion they are blaming some foreign entity for your problems (all countries suffer from this sort of scapegoat shaming, not just Argentina).

    18. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by radarskiy · · Score: 2

      "In 1910 ... Then Peron got elected"

      Argentina, of course, did not participate in the years 1911 through 1945.

      "to pull all of the gold out of their national bank and spend it."

      You mean the part where he paid off the debt to the Bank of England?

    19. Re:So they eliminated their debt with a fire? by garyebickford · · Score: 3, Informative

      He spent the gold reserves nationalizing the railroads and buying votes. Later the lack of those reserves resulted in the Argentine peso having the highest inflation rate in the world. If you were reading the Wikipedia article on Peron, it is apparently written by a die-hard Peronista and doesn't cover the real impact of his policies or the true reasons why he was tossed out - not once but twice. I haven't been able to track down the original citation but from what I've read, literally when he became President his first action was to be shown the gold reserves, where he said, "We will take this and spend it on the people!" - the original wording was better but hey. He did in fact spend nearly all of the reserves, and that was a key factor later in the destruction of the stable peso.

      Here's just one analyst's view:

      In 1930, Argentina’s gold reserves ranked 6th. After the “experts” took over the central bank, reserves fell to 9th in 1948 (with $700 million), 16th during 1950-54 (with $530 million), and 28th during 1960-1964 (with $290 million).
      The Argentine central bank, created in 1935, was at first a private corporation. Its president lasted longer (seven years) than the president of the country, and it had strict limits for government debt purchases and even had foreign bankers on its board. It became a government entity in 1946.
      When Perón assumed power shortly thereafter, he hastily expanded the role of government, relaxed central banking rules and used the bank to facilitate his statist policies. In just 10 years, the peso went from 4.05 per U.S. dollar to 18 in 1955 (and later peaked at 36 that same year). After Perón’s rule, Argentina further devalued its currency to 400 pesos per U.S. dollar by 1970.

      (http://www.visionandvalues.org/2013/06/dont-cry-for-me-america-comparing-argentina-and-the-united-states/) - I don't know anything about this site, it was just a convenient Google result. But these facts are well known.

      It should be said that Peron was not the first, or only, leader who made a mess of things in Argentina. The Argentine political system was already suffering from various issues including classism, huge gaps between industrialists and workers, etc., and (according to several sources) a political mind set that made and makes it difficult to maintain a working democracy. The so-called 'Infamous Decade' starting in the 1930s destroyed what was left of a traditional political system and made it possible for the fascists to take over. This is a pretty good description of the situation.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
  2. Classic Slashdot by dknj · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is off topic, but I'm getting a warning at the top of Slashdot that classic is going to be going away soon (looks like in 4 months).

    How many readers are going to leave if they cut it off slashdot classic completely?

    1. Re:Classic Slashdot by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'll probably be gone.

    2. Re:Classic Slashdot by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Beta can lick my salty balls. If slashdot classic (read marginally usable slashdot, as opposed to this COMPLETELY unusable beta crap) goes away, I'm gone too.

    3. Re:Classic Slashdot by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've been coming here less and less because the stories are no longer interesting. A shitty redesign might be the final nail in the coffin. Pick a couple subreddits you like and enjoy.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    4. Re: Classic Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just need fire to destroy all data then you won't have to be gone....

    5. Re:Classic Slashdot by Alkivar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've been coming to /. since before you had to register to comment.
      This is the first design change that has actually made me consider leaving.

    6. Re: Classic Slashdot by jafac · · Score: 5, Interesting

      4-digit UID here.
      Don't like the beta one bit.
      Get off my lawn.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    7. Re: Classic Slashdot by cyberchondriac · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whoa, I don't think ever seen that low a UID here before.. or I just never noticed. I thought you had all died out by now.
      Why not tie a bunch of balloons to your house and float it on over to Argentina. Their banks are getting a fresh new start, mortgages should be cheap.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    8. Re:Classic Slashdot by Fluffeh · · Score: 2

      Erm, you don't have to register to comment. That Anon Coward isn't just a funny nick you know? :P

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    9. Re:Classic Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was going to leave feedback, but their link took me into third party site hell (nice going guys).

      The redesign is a bad idea. What makes the classic design work is the same thing that makes Craigslist work - there's a maximum of readable poop per area of screen real estate. We don't need large, flashy fonts, big catchy icons, etc if that means fewer stories or shorter summaries on a page. That's how you get into the "we made the site look so good that everyone left" syndrome.

      Microsoft's Windows 8 designers had a similar idea; you'll notice that Windows 7 is still doing a brisk business.

    10. Re:Classic Slashdot by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How many readers are going to leave if they cut it off slashdot classic completely?

      I'm likely to. I'm thinking of changing my signature to "If Hitler were also a pedophile, he'd still be better than Slashdot Beta". But maybe beta will improve?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:Classic Slashdot by Racemaniac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      i've got the feeling the beta slashdot was designed by someone who makes websites for the elderly

      huge fonts, extra pictures, tons of whitespace everywhere >__
      it might be decent for a mobile version, but not for desktops, we're not reading this on 8" screens

    12. Re:Classic Slashdot by gaudior · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are complaining about crappy stories and shitty web design, and then recommending Reddit as an alternative?

      The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

    13. Re: Classic Slashdot by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Much like anything else on the internet, if you want to see something done, just announce loudly that it's not possible.

      There are no THREE DIGIT ID posters left on Slashdot

    14. Re:Classic Slashdot by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      change happens, sure, but when change is for the worse should we really embrace it? There is no shortage of news sites on the internet, I think the majority of old users like myself still come here for the comments/discussion, and if a redesign makes the comment section less usable and so causes people to leave, what's left then?

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    15. Re:Classic Slashdot by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's half of what's left!!

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    16. Re:Classic Slashdot by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I really wish someone with a big-name reputation in the geek community would do a Slashdot fork.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    17. Re:Classic Slashdot by TWiTfan · · Score: 2

      Good change = good
      Bad change != good

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    18. Re:Classic Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are complaining about crappy stories and shitty web design, and then recommending Reddit as an alternative?

      The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

      You're full of it. The reddit's stories are much the same as /. but they have many more of them. In addition reddit's web design is far superior to slashdot beta. Slashdot beta have got so many things wrong with it it's just ridiculous. The so-called "designers" who did it should hang their heads in shame. I put an entry in my hosts file to kill the random redirects to beta. If that dies then slashdot is just another advertising junk site as far as I'm concerned.

    19. Re: Classic Slashdot by bamf · · Score: 5, Informative

      Aren't there?

    20. Re: Classic Slashdot by sconeu · · Score: 2

      5 digits agrees with the almighty four digits.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    21. Re: Classic Slashdot by Wizy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Another 5 digit agreeing with the 4 digit parent.

      This redesign is horrible. I will be leaving Slashdot after >10 years if this is forced on us.

    22. Re:Classic Slashdot by mdielmann · · Score: 2

      So, in short, they took the Windows 8 approach, and were surprised to get an identical response.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    23. Re: Classic Slashdot by Quirkz · · Score: 2

      An old RPG scenario I played in included some meddlesome wizard who appeared and disappeared repeatedly with what the DM enunciated as *bamf* each time. So your user name fits exceedingly well with what you just did there.

      --
      The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
    24. Re:Classic Slashdot by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

      This is the first design change that has actually made me consider leaving.

      Classic is the only thing keeping me in the comments section.
      The fact that /devs decided to truncate long urls, even for classic Plain Old Text, should have tipped me off that my kind isn't wanted here anymore.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    25. Re: Classic Slashdot by Ecuador · · Score: 2

      Wow, you waited and waited for almost 2 years since your last post just for such an opportunity? :)

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    26. Re: Classic Slashdot by ximenes · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's correct, only two digits are left. Also I never post anymore and barely read the site anymore.

    27. Re:Classic Slashdot by rsmith-mac · · Score: 5, Informative

      i've got the feeling the beta slashdot was designed by someone who makes websites for the elderly

      Not quite. It was designed by someone who (sadly) knows what they're doing, and more importantly knows what advertisers currently want.

      A lot of sites have shifted over to this kind of design, so Slashdot is far from alone. Advertisers like it for various reasons - mostly it comes down to ads being more eye-catching - and of course advertisers control the purse strings. But at the same time the public has also had it ingrained into their heads that such a design is the definition of "modern", and therefore any site not using such a design is by definition not modern, and therefore not worth their time ("the site's owners can't be bothered to keep up with the times?"). Which just leads to a feedback loop of advertisers liking it even more, since they want to advertise on sites that the public perceives as hip/modern so that their products are seen in a similar manner.

      But the truly terrifying thing is that the industry isn't done yet. I can show you what the future will look like and it isn't pretty: http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5307992/inside-the-mind-of-a-fanboy. By all accounts the advertisers seem to love it; the text is big and readable (i.e. not threatening), there's animation and lots of flashy effects, etc. It basically reads and behaves like an interactive glossy magazine (People, not Popular Science).

      Not that I agree with any of this. Beta needs to be buried 6ft under in a grave lined with lead. But there is a method to their madness; despite what a lot of people here think, Dice hasn't gone off of their rockers. The rest of the world is just slowly moving on from text to images and iconography, as sad as that may be.

    28. Re: Classic Slashdot by Tom · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wow.

      It's like seing a unicorns.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    29. Re: Classic Slashdot by TopSpin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      None at all.

      And yes, beta has serious problems. Regressing to having to bang on the "Load More..." button instead of "Load All Comments" while not logged in is one glaring example. The fact that comments don't flow around the end the right side ad bar is another.

      This is not Twitter. People write lengthy comments here; please don't piss away space with huge margins and poor layout.

      --
      Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
    30. Re:Classic Slashdot by fnj · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'll probably be gone if this beta abortion becomes the only available interface. I mean WHAT THE FUCK?! This nazi piece of shit just imperiously throws away all of my paragraph breaks!

      Come on, slashdot. Really? Admit failure. Fire whoever needs to be fired, and get back on track.

      I mean jesus christ. Maybe I will even start a site to compete. One whose design is not brain dead and whose management will never become brain dead.

    31. Re:Classic Slashdot by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      I can show you what the future will look like and it isn't pretty:

      Holy fuck. I want to punch someone in the kittens for that layout. ZOMG POP! POP! POP! ZOMG POP!

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    32. Re:Classic Slashdot by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      You are complaining about crappy stories and shitty web design, and then recommending Reddit as an alternative?

      The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

      Perhaps we can teach this one no more.Our job here is done. He now graduates to Yahoo comment boards.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    33. Re:Classic Slashdot by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 2

      I think the restaurant metaphor is misleading, because it assumes your patrons are entirely interchangeable. /. to me is more akin to a club, where you do have the old members with the most knowledge, and the new members joining and learning from the old members and perpetuating the club "culture". If this redesign goes through, a lot of the mentors/old members will leave, and if they go under the critical mass needed to sustain it there is a risk the site itself will become non-viable and just a news aggregator with lowest-common-denominator discussion.

      I can't see why sites continue to change their look to be "fresh" while not leaving the previous look available for people that prefer it, if you have your articles in a db it should be trivial to leave the old codebase up and running "forever" if you really can't be bothered to have your new codebase support the old format (which in my opinion should be the #1 feature of any code redesign, backwards compatibility).

      A similar charade is going on with my.yahoo.com right now, which has force-update everybody from the old very comfortable and information-dense layout to a new "fresh" layout with less functionality (can't hover on stories to read the abstract for example, which should be a fairly basic feature) and gobs more wasted whitespace and large fonts everywhere: users are up in arms on the suggestion boards and have been since it was in beta, but the company went forward anyways and it looks like it's unfortunately here to stay.

      The only constant in life is change, but it sure would be nice if this change didn't always seemingly happen hand in hand with reduction in functionality and less customizability. It would be like if the next version of emacs forced you into a 3-pane buffer with 16pt fonts and mandatory purple on white font/colors because it looks more "fresh", just because something is old it doesn't mean it's "stale", it can just mean it's tested and works well and so should be left alone.

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    34. Re:Classic Slashdot by gmezero · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I read Reddit and Hackernews for most of my tech news these days but have always fallen back to scanning Slashdot every day for the cream of the crop and to check the comments for interesting dialog because it was a lightweight, scan to get through the content.

      I've gotta say, the Beta is pretty bad from a UX perspective and I would say that it is out of line with my perceptions of who a Slashdot user is.

      It's like someone just said "this is trendy, make it happen" without any real consideration for the active user base. I can only hope that the feedback from the Beta supports my perception and they reverse on it, but I have to admit to myself that that's highly unlikely and I can say right now that it will very likely effect my visit frequency to the site.

      Pretty bummed about it.

    35. Re: Classic Slashdot by gmezero · · Score: 2

      Yeah, we're here. Just keeping an eye on you guys... but clearly not well enough as apparently one of you brought your girlfriend in and she's putting photos all over the place instead of the news.

    36. Re: Classic Slashdot by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      At your age, it's probably just cataracts.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    37. Re:Classic Slashdot by theArtificial · · Score: 2

      I'm interested in contributing, I've got a couple machines and some bandwidth, but it depends on some other factors. I really enjoy Slashdot, and would love to see this community continue, or if "we" go elsewhere, join that crowd. Maybe we can make a poll or something in what users are interested in feature wise? Slashdot of a certain era for example, or this could be a great time to refactor while keeping a familiar layout and moderation system. What's your skillset?

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    38. Re:Classic Slashdot by speederaser · · Score: 2

      I can't code but I can write a check. Post that bad boy to Kickstarter and auction off the low user ids. I would suggest the name 'slashdottir' but you'd get sued.

    39. Re: Classic Slashdot by ximenes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I still read the site every so often, but it's gone from one of my main sites that I read religiously to one that I forget about for a week or two.

      The level of the articles don't even warrant skimming the summary in most cases, let alone reading the comments or actually commenting myself. Part of it is that my interests have diverged and part of it is that Slashdot has seriously lost any edge it ever had.

      I can see why they feel the need to freshen up the design -- and it's not like it's ever been strong on a design front -- but the beta is atrocious and once I can't avoid it I doubt I'll ever be back. Slashdot may have outlasted Digg but I suspect it will share the same fate.

    40. Re:Classic Slashdot by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I have thought about it but the code there was last touched in what 06?

      Why is this a bad thing? LOOK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY TOUCH THE CODE!

  3. Classic Slashdot by EvilSS · · Score: 2

    How many readers are going to leave if they cut it off slashdot classic completely?

    8

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  4. Offsite copies by Rob_Bryerton · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, hopefully that Iron Mountain facility was storing their backups offsite at a safe, secure location.

  5. I'm trying to reply from the beta by bmajik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    have you left any constructive comments in the Slashdot "blog" threads? That appears to be the official avenue by which they claim to want feedback, so duplicate your efforts over there.

    I too am a classic user, and I don't much care for the beta interface. I left comments indicating what I wanted the UI to do that it wasn't currently doing, and why I still use the classic mode.

    --
    My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    1. Re:I'm trying to reply from the beta by halcyon1234 · · Score: 3, Informative

      have you left any constructive comments in the Slashdot "blog" threads?

      Yes, and they've all been ignored. Just like every "feedback" thread that's ever been run by a corporation. I also filled out the survey. Ignored.

      The change will happen. Readingship will nosedive. Someone at Dice will say "See, told you Slashdot was dying, this proves me right". The site will be mothballed, and Dice News (tm) will be opened as a "leader in a newspace with no competition".

      --
      UTF-8: There and Back Again
  6. Hmmm.... by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Argentina having an economic crisis... Making impotent threats over the Falklands didn't work, let's try burning all the bank records.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Hmmm.... by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When that many failsafes all fail (and Iron Mountain certainly takes this sort of stuff seriously), it's pretty clearly an "accident" not an accident.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:Hmmm.... by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yea, if any of you haven't been in one of these data centers, the sear improbability of this kind of fire is staggering.

      The rooms are usually kept so cold you need a jacket.
      There are firewalls everywhere (and I mean the physical kind)
      They have sprinkler systems in the looses sense of the term, They more likely dump CO2 to avoid damaging the equipment.
      If all else fails the room seal and Halon dumps (or one of its alternatives) making combustion almost completely impossible.

      The only way I could see it happening is if things were shut down for a test or something...
      or some neighboring building that was much larger exploded or something.

    3. Re:Hmmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      There are firewalls everywhere (and I mean the physical kind)

      And there is you have the culprit. Walls of fire should not be placed anywhere near anything you don't want to burn. "But the Mount of Doom has a lot of fire" you say. Yeah, and it didn't do them any good, now did it? Just use a few more Orc patrols and be done with it. It may seem more expensive, but at least you won't have problems with people accidentally catching on fire and burning everything.

  7. Have to ask... by GameMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    I know it's horrible that some first responders died in this, but I have to ask if anyone's looked to see if there have been any new hand-crafted soap manufacturers and/or liposuction clinic thefts in the area lately...

    --

    Rules of Conduct:
    #1 - The DM is always right.
    #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
  8. Confessions Of an Ex-SLASHDOT BETA user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Day 1: It wouldn't stop, the redirecting. At first I thought it was malware. Had my first drink in a long time.

    Day 2: Barely had the strength to carry on as the BETA REDIRECTIONS continue.. trying not to talk to hallucinations at the bar and in the bathroom which laugh at me about these redirections.

    Day 3: Discovered the BETA redirections were random, and while at first they looked somewhat usable, when I looked at me and my monitor screen in the mirror, a horrible woman with flesh hanging off of her body looked back, trying to lead me into a dance as the word BETA appeared across her rancid breasts.

    Day 4: These BETA corridors go on FOREVER! On the plus side, I've taken up disassembling vehicles to corner this BETA beast and sacrifice myself rather than lead others to discovering it. I ate some red snow.

    Day 5: Finding it harder to concentrate. I've ate some more of the red snow. The taste is starting to grow on me.

    Day 6: This typewriter is the only entertainment I have, apart from throwing things at the walls, trying to get some response from the BETA which is now taking over my mind.

    Day 7: Hahahahahha! Would you believe it? I'M STILL BEING REDIRECTED TO SLASHDOT BETA PAGES! AHAHhahahaah! Type, type, ding, ding! Wooo!

    Day 8: The hallucinations are actually real! Would you believe it? They have offered to help me if I agree to work for them. I'm thinking about patenting this delicious red snow, the taste is unreal!

    Day 9: Having black out sessions where I cannot remember large passings of time. Found some makeup, thought I'd paint a joker smile on my face to amuse the people only I can see!

    Day 10: Productive today, part of what I wrote for my new screenplay:

    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slashdot BETA!
    I cannot opt out of Slas

    (drops of blood on paper)

  9. There's no default title in a reply in slashdot be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm masochistically viewing this story in slashdot beta. It's horrible.

    A few replies down a tree, and comments are squished into a bar about 1/16 the width of the screen. Half of the left-hand side is taken up with whitespace and vertical rules, the right-hand side is taken up with ads.

    The comment threshold system is fundamentally broken.
    There's a stupid ever-present menubar at the top of the page.
    The fucking 'dept' joke is *below* the summary, not above it. Why? Who the hell knows.

    I'm pissed, because I've been coming to this site since 1998, I like the community, and I fear that a good chunk of the regulars will leave if Beta is really forced on us.

  10. Re:Some far reaching implications... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Iron burns as follows:

    4Fe(s) + 3O2(g) -> 2Fe2O3(s)

  11. Neither surprising nor far by michaelmalak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The linked WSJ story says that a creditor to Argentina was seeking the bank records related to the country's 2001 default. That is neither far-reaching nor surprising.

  12. Business majors by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    McDonalds notes that the best people to own franchises are farmers, because they follow instructions to the letter. Since the McDonalds franchise model has been honed to perfection, the farmer-owned franchise is a guaranteed success.

    The worst franchise owners are MBAs. They want to make changes, to do things "better", and this never works out in practice. The franchise instructions do things in specific ways for a reason, all the bugs have been worked out, and the franchise model really is the best way.

    Slashdot is run by MBAs, they won't listen to us. They know better, because they are, like, business majors... ya know?

    The biggest mistake MBAs make is thinking that management/administration is a plug-in skill - you can move to a different business and manage it without knowing the ins and outs of the business.

    Any MBA can become a middle manager in, for example, a newspaper without knowing the newspaper business. It's all about managing people, getting projects done on time, and being a buffer between management and workers.

    Any MBA can manage Slashdot, you only need to survey the landscape and implement all the features that make other news sites great.

    Being like other sites will make Slashdot even greater!

  13. Re:I'm thought about trying to reply from the beta by BeerCat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I looked at the beta, and thought "I'll give it a go"

    And then found the large default font, the lack of auto-copying the OP subject and the general "messiness" of it all too painful.

    Just as well I had the classic in another tab...

    --
    "She's furniture with a pulse"
  14. I've found a test of the New Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    You can see what it looks like here.

  15. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My big issue with it is the crazy amounts of wasted whitespace. This is a trend in site layout that needs to die.

  16. Survey response by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Informative

    The survey asks:

    What do you like the most about Slashdot Beta?

    My response: "It encourages me to find and read new sites."

    1. Re:Survey response by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

      Once you've filled it out, you can't go back, you get redirected to the beta front page. There were several "WTF does that mean???" questions that REQUIRED yes/no answers. Even the QUESTIONS about the beta site suck.

  17. Multi-tiered backup strategy by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Allow me to stress the importance of a multi-tiered backup strategy. The loss of any individual tier should not result in the loss of any data...

    We're not exactly fanatical about our backups, but we still go for a three tiered strategy for our live systems: on-system (like nightly SQL dumps), off-system (nightly disk images stored in the datacentre), and off-site (nightly incremental rsync-based backups). The failure of any one of those backup tiers wouldn't be an issue...

    I don't see why archival storage should be much different. You should have at least two copies of everything in different locations, on-site and off-site. Basically, if you're shoving archival data in a third-party facility like this, you have no backups of your archives...

    1. Re:Multi-tiered backup strategy by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Very few companies want to keep those archives - the data can only harm them. You store one copy as legally required, and you store it in the best facility to show you made a proper effort, and if something still happens, well, it's not your fault any more.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  18. Let me get this straight.... by rts008 · · Score: 2

    So, you're saying Slashdot should be run farmers?
    *unhitches mules from plow*

    I'm on my way!

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    1. Re:Let me get this straight.... by NeverWorker1 · · Score: 2

      They certainly couldn't be any worse...

  19. Just ask the NSA... by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... to copy their backup of the data...

  20. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe Dice has wisely realized that we're all really coming to Slashdot for the wonderful summaries and ads, not the comments.

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  21. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by wile_e8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The comment threshold system is fundamentally broken.

    This is the part that kills me. As far as I can tell, there is no way to expand/view the parents or children of highly-moderated posts without viewing at -1, at which point the highly-moderated posts get lost in the noise. Lots of "Funny" replies where I can't even open the parent post to get the context of the joke.

  22. I've seen this one before by C3ntaur · · Score: 5, Funny

    This seems to be the standard way to make inconvenient records disappear. http://youtu.be/hZEvA8BCoBw

    --
    Loading...
  23. Not so true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hello Ciber-K, the ones who destroyed the economy are Kirchner and friends (which used to include Clarin & cia, so they are NOT saints).
    Shell raising the gas prices is obvious taking into account the more than 12% devaluation from the other day, you do remember that Oil is a commodity right? and it's price, and it's extraction costs are all dollar-tied?
    Why don't you go ask Capitanich (Former province governor, current second in command) why the Gas Stations he created back in his province have the most expensive gasoline in said province?

    Have a little respect for the emergency responders that died, just like the people who died back in Rio Tercero when Menem made it blow to cover his arms trading...

    1. Re:Not so true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      That was exactly my first recollection reading this story: building 7.

  24. *sigh* by sootman · · Score: 2

    I'll be very sad if Slashdot gets flushed down the tubes. Like everyone else, I come here for the comments. (Certainly not for the summaries, or timely news.) I can find neat stuff anywhere (reddit!) but nowhere else has anywhere NEAR the level of discussion that you find here. At the other end of the scale, HN and Quora get dominated by a few heavy writers and they're way too serious most of the time. I LOVE Slashdot's patented mix of light, informative, funny stuff.

    After 17 years here (HOLY CRAP!), I have no idea what I'll do if (when?) it goes.

    Dear DICE: Can you PLEASE not fuck this up and turn it into some shitty Business Insider clone or something? Can you possibly just let a good thing stay as it is?

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  25. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by labnet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My big issue with it is the crazy amounts of wasted whitespace. This is a trend in site layout that needs to die.

    Here Here. Slashdotters like data density. We extract lots of information very quickly. eg. Having a UID next to a user name infers how long they have been in the community.
    It is like pixel density in monitors which has gone backwards in the last 10 years, and now is only just starting to progress again with 4k displays. I want more data density, less white space.

    --
    46137
  26. Iron Mountain places seem to burn easily by Bearhouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Out of interest, I was looking for more detail.
    Found a story on the BBC about one of their facilities that went up in flames in London in 2006 (I think)
    Was a link to another fire too..

    Maybe not the safest archivist out there, then..

  27. Re:I'm thought about trying to reply from the beta by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Even the front page is a disaster. Classic Slashdot has a nice list of stories. A list is easy to scan. The new site has some kind of bullshit "showcase" of stories at the top, followed by massive story blocks that make me scroll like I'm looking at a mobile site on my 5" phone screen. Throw in some stock images because... well, who knows, it pads the space I suppose, and maybe some people like stock images of network cables and company logos.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  28. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by Mashiki · · Score: 2

    Quite you. Your new DICE overlords don't believe in UID's having any value, and they don't value data density. They believe in being the next gawker with a horrible UI that will make them trendy and hipsterish.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  29. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by hurfy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ROFL
    Tried it myself after all the fuss here and it doesn't resemble what you descibe at all. To make it truely painful try XP and IE 8. The 1st 3 stories (i think) are all kind of on top of one another. There is a little helper box descibing and pointing to menu items I don't actually see. Some more odd menu? entries or buttons. Past the 1st screen it seems to settle down with less than ONE story per screen usually with a HUGE pic with little relevance. Oops, i mean no stories per page, took 2 pages to get something to read. Really? Someone replaced the little icons with a pic taking up 90% of the screen, wtf? BIG green header bar with a little tiny "slashdot, news for nerds" Why the hell does it need a HUGE header, half of which (which should be the whole thing, and certainly has room for the news for nerds tagline) follows me down the screen in case I forgot where I was.

    Even if it worked as it appears to be attempting to, I have no desire to read news stories that take longer to scroll to than to read. Since I am not getting a new office computer to read slashdot I would be gone too. Feel free to paste this to feedback, with where I see this headed it isn't worth investing my time.

    I am with the one that mentioned data density, everyone seems to be going content-free lately :(

  30. unenforceable debt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    according to my records, Argentinas banks owe me a trillion dollars.

  31. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by Blue+Stone · · Score: 3, Informative

    Readability is less in the new version too. A lot in uselful info of a comment is dimmed. The contrast is diminished all over a post. No clear demarkation between a title, user details and post content.

    It really sucks.

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
  32. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That and the god damned random I-found-something-on-Flickr-that-sort-of-is-maybe-related-to-the-thread pictures. Yes, it's trendy (Google News, ad nauseum), no, it doesn't improve understanding of the issue nor are the pictures intrinsically interesting.

    Stop the Madness!

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  33. Re:beta sucks balls by Yo+Grark · · Score: 2

    Oh nothing at all. http://fredw-catharsisours.blo...

    YoGrark

    --
    Canadian Bred with American Buttering
  34. Re:There's no default title in a reply in slashdot by Splab · · Score: 2

    What new design? Oh you mean the one that isn't on classic.slashdot.org? I was half way out the door back then when they allowed us to switch to the old design.

    If Beta goes ahead, there will be a mass exodus, the slashdot user base isn't the average "uh shiny" consumer.