Microsoft Confirms Windows 8.1 Spring Update, To Focus On Non-touch Devices

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Microsoft Confirms Windows 8.1 Spring Update, To Focus On Non-touch Devices

Posted by timothy on Sunday February 23, 2014 @02:29AM from the iteration-station dept.

SmartAboutThings writes "At a special event at the Mobile World Congress, Microsoft has announced the 'spring' update for Windows 8.1. Joe Belfiore, who is the head of platform at Microsoft for smartphones, tablets and desktop devices, said the Windows 8.1 update will come with improvements for non-touch devices. Belfiore also said the update will focus on bringing back some of the 'old' features to Windows 8.1, such as the much-hyped start button, but this won't have a negative impact on the touch experience."

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99% by Citizen+of+Earth · 2014-02-23 02:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

said the Windows 8.1 update will come with improvements for non-touch devices
What a fantastic strategy -- to put a few afterthoughts into 99% of their market...
1. Re:99% by chalkyj · 2014-02-23 02:39 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It'll be nice to use server 2013 without having to battle with a "touch screen optimised" interface. I guess they over estimated how many people are running server 2013 on tablets.
2. Re:99% by inasity_rules · 2014-02-23 02:53 · Score: 2
  
  This is exactly why I'm running exchange on 2011. Also they killed exchange from SBS when they called it "Essentials". Wish I could ditch it, but I don't have time to rewrite all the legacy stuff that has been added.
  
  --
  I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
3. Re:99% by Stickiler · 2014-02-23 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  Wait, did they seriously remove Exchange from SBS 2013? Fuck me, guess I'm migrating my work servers to something else.
4. Re:99% by inasity_rules · 2014-02-23 03:06 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Pretty much... We installed it on our new server without checking first then had a "uh... wait... Where is exchange?" moment. Turns out Microsoft wants you on the cloud. Or, I dunno, you could just fork out the cash for exchange server. That is, assuming you have an unlimited amount of cash lying around.
  
  --
  I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
5. Re:99% by petermgreen · 2014-02-23 03:09 · Score: 2
  
  Afaict microsoft's greatest threat in recent has not been that windows would be replaced on the desktop/laptop but that computing would shift away from desktops/laptops (where they hold a near monopoly) to smartphones/tablets (where they are an also-ran).
  Afaict MS thought that by forcing metro (tablet interface+forced appstore) onto desktops and laptops they could both gain a footing in the tablet market and also get some of that easy money that apple enjoys from their appstore.
  Unfortunately for MS it hasn't really worked out that way. the crippled RT was largely DOA. Regular win8 on tablets has become popular with some niches but is held back by the cost and bulk of x86 hardware.
  
  --
  note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
6. Re:99% by inasity_rules · 2014-02-23 03:29 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  No, I had a new server and a copy of Microsoft Server Essentials(as part of our companies Action Pack). I installed the new server for testing purposes (as one does), and discovered there was no more exchange. It was a waste of my time, yes, however at the time it didn't seem unreasonable that SBS becoming Essentials wouldn't eliminate the essential reason to get and use SBS.
  
  --
  I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
7. Re:99% by inasity_rules · 2014-02-23 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  *reasonable.
  
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  I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
8. Re:99% by Stickiler · 2014-02-23 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, as a small Australian business, with Australian internet, I won't be bothering with the cloud bullshit. Guess I'll be looking for something Linux-based to supplant it.
9. Re:99% by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:00 · Score: 1
  
  You know what's idiotic? Assuming that that it was an UPGRADE on a PRODUCTION server, when the original poster mentioned neither of those terms. Do you do this often, just so you can attempt to talk down to people?
10. Re:99% by Bing+Tsher+E · 2014-02-23 04:01 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Not anymore. You can now get a full x86 tablet with 8.1 for about the same price as a Nexus. It's still not for sure how things will settle, but this might be the point at which Tablets become something more than a toy to the public at large.
  It would be a delicious irony if the entry of affordable regular Windows onto Tablets became the hinge point for their mainstream acceptance. Maybe Apple will soon be forced by the market to sell an OSX tablet.
11. Re:99% by ColdWetDog · 2014-02-23 04:07 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I suppose with the bad drought you all are having, it makes sense to avoid cloud-based solutions.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
12. Re:99% by inasity_rules · 2014-02-23 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  I was looking at Zimbra, which looks interesting. Unfortunately back in the early 2000s, someone at my company did all sorts of custom mailboxes and weird scripts, so until I find time(unlikely) to figure out what is going on, I'm stuck. I am only a sysadmin in my spare time...
  
  --
  I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
13. Re:99% by norite · 2014-02-23 05:57 · Score: 2
  
  Unfortunately for MS, it's too late and the damage has been done. Folks have looked for alternatives like Android, Windows 7, Chromebooks, Apple and Linux. On the desktop, win8 is a catastrophic abortion of epic proportions. Metro should have been left on tablets/phones.
  Sacrificing 99% of your user base for the sake of 1% is insanity. They must man up and admit their mistakes, but as 8.1 shows. they haven't. They haven't a got a single clue.
  
  --
  -- Fuck Beta
14. Re:99% by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 06:36 · Score: 0
  
  You also have to look at it from the opposite perspective, if they did nothing, the vast majority would STILL have gone away from desktops to more portable electronics and they would slowly drift away in any case. Now, they at least can decide to fix their issues if they desire, or continue their current course to irrelevancy.
15. Re:99% by slashmydots · 2014-02-23 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Actually what happened what they realized "hey...we want to make money."
16. Re:99% by BasilBrush · 2014-02-23 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  They must man up and admit their mistakes, but as 8.1 shows. they haven't.
  On the contrary, finally pushing Ballmer out was their admission that it had all gone wrong. 8.1 is just mitigation, their new direction will be decided by the new CEO, and as he's only be in place for 3 weeks, it's way too early to expect to see it publicly yet.
  Don't get me wrong. MS is fucked. But it's not that they don't know it.
17. Re:99% by Solandri · 2014-02-23 07:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's really simple. The only way to install a Metro app is through Microsoft's Store. There are exceptions for developers and corporate in-house software. But for the traditional business model where Party A makes the software, Party B buys it and uses it, you can only do it by selling the software in the Store.
  
  If you sell through the Store, Microsoft takes a 30% cut of all revenue.
  
  That's what this is all about. Microsoft wants 30% of Adobe's, Intuit's, SAP's, Oracle's, etc's revenue. Their plan to make this happen is to get all users (including corporate ones) to use Metro apps. If the users accept it, then the developers will be forced to make Metro apps and sell it through the Store. And Microsoft gets a 30% cut. Of everything.
  
  That's why they're forcing Metro down users' throats. That's why the "Start" button isn't really a start button but dumps you straight into Metro - it's a one-button access to where the Store is. That's why your Windows Server pushes Metro apps. It's all to get you to buy and use Metro apps, so developers will start selling Metro apps.
  
  (And yes I realize this is Apple's walled garden model with iOS. I don't really have as much problem with it there because iOS devices are generally not productivity devices so most apps are priced $0 to $10. Not $100 to over $1000 like many Windows productivity apps. And no this is not Google's model. Yes Google takes a 30% cut of apps sold in the Play store, but they don't restrict where you get your apps from. It's easiest to get them from the Play store, but you can get them from any other store, or side-load them via microSD or USB or even directly from a website. Basically the current state of Windows software is like the Android environment where an optional store charges 30%, and Microsoft is trying to transition it to be like the iOS environment where the only store charges 30%.)
18. Re:99% by zacherynuk · 2014-02-23 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  Yup. We bought the last 6 copies we could, from our distro I can't see an alternative .
  
  Being reliant on internet comms is still a pipe dream. Even for companies that would adopt the cloud (non of our clients who are all finance and similar)
  
  I honestly don't know where to go in a post MS in house SBS world. It was a very good product for over a decade. It broke a little bit when outlook licences were not included in 2003. But Outlook & Exchange is what it's all about. I have found no alternative.
  
  but we will.
19. Re:99% by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2014-02-23 08:11 · Score: 2
  
  I don't really have as much problem with it there because iOS devices are generally not productivity devices so most apps are priced $0 to $10. Not $100 to over $1000 like many Windows productivity apps.
  
  Oracle, PeopleSoft and other IT software are all moving to the browser as the user inteface to construct SQL queries and run the software in the servers. They would switch to linux rather than pay 30% tax to Microsoft. Almost all the IT development could be done using the browser as the user interface. No metro needed for them.
  But there are other tools that can not run in the browser. Not just the creative studio from Adobe or the video editors. The CAD/CAM software is very expensive. ANSYS High Frequency Structures Simulator or Fluent fluid mechanics solver would run into 50K or more per seat with 20K a year in maintenance. Cadence, Mentor Graphics, Synopsis, AutoDyne, Parametric, CATIA, Abacus, StarCC++ are all multi-thousand dollar per year software, You can bet none of them would ever migrate their interface to metro, nor would they pay 30% to Microsoft. I am very sure Microsoft has special deals for these vendors, because they would drop support for Windows if Microsoft plays hardball with them.
  
  --
  sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
20. Re:99% by Mashiki · 2014-02-23 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  You know what's idiotic? Assuming that that it was an UPGRADE on a PRODUCTION server, when the original poster mentioned neither of those terms. Do you do this often, just so you can attempt to talk down to people?
  Well let's be realistic, have you ever dealt with some really *swift* outsourced IT companies? I have, needless to say when I got hired on it was so bad that the town that I ended up working for, flew me across the country to fix the mess. Because the company that they had subcontracted their IT out to, fucked it up. I mean how can you fuck up sharepoint? Well these guys did. Needless to say, the entire town was fucked for nearly 60 days with no incoming, or outgoing payments. And they had to get a bond from the provincial government to cover it until I got them back up and running. My first question when I was on-site was, where is the test and development server? And they said there wasn't one.
  Yeah it was that bad.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
21. Re:99% by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 10:06 · Score: 0
  
  Well when you cant innovate, take features away, then sell them back to the unwashed masses as improvements :)
22. Re:99% by Billly+Gates · 2014-02-23 11:35 · Score: 0
  
  Yes and no.
  Fact: Microsoft doesn't have a mobile strategy as Android and iOS are making a killing. WinCE which is the opposite doesn't work either.
  On paper what they did makes sense. Kids today do not mind Metro and view the desktop as ugly and unintuitive. Another problem is users who get a brand new computer want to install Firefox, chrome, avast Av, paint.net, and other software. Bing shows them Trojan versions. Brothersoft and cnet are freaking evil! They install conduit search which requires a reimage to get rid of.
  Ni nite and file hippo are the only 2 I can trust. So a windows Store is a blessing! Just type in Chrome and you get it etc.
  In practice Windows 8 failed due to bad employees and management. Mistakes were:
  1. The odd assumption that because people use jumplist on pinned apps = they want metro full screen apps with no jumplists?!
  2. The designer who made the office orb in office 2007 and made our users look for 30 minutes to find print because he said muscle memory would mean people will click there anyway out of habit designing hot corners and smart screen.
  3. People who focus on content are more productive without distractions = Consumption only is what we really want ala google
  4. Project VP feels using muscle memory is a great strategy to sell more phones.
  If fixed it can be great for laptop and mobile users as winrt really uses less battery. Windows 9 should:
  1. Have taskbar that disappeared when mouse is unplugged where modern apps can be stacked, grouped, aero peaked, and run like win32.
  2. Have phone, tablet, and desktop use winrt API for apps to run on all 3. Taskbar and desktop pop up if you plug in a mouse.
  3. Put color back. Minimalism can have this.
  4. Put tabs everywhere
  5. Have sccm and ad integrate with store. Maybe allow some corporate users to use it for safe apps where it won't won't fuck things up like real win32 apps
  Do this and I may use this on my next system. Windows 8 metro was rushed and implemented with incompetent employees also yes some of us are resistant to change. I am I admit as we age we like things the way they are. I am not saying that is the only reason to hate metro. Just that I see no problem using it for running server 2012 as I only do one thing at a time unlike my desktop and then walk away and remotely use MMC.
  Metro is not going away folks. As computers get smaller and more embedded the need for menus and power sucking and insecure APIs go down. So what's wrong with a Windows 7 desktop with 8 applets on it?
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
23. Re:99% by GigaplexNZ · 2014-02-23 11:42 · Score: 1
  
  You're missing the part where Server 2012 and the R2 variant don't come with the Store enabled, and Metro apps don't work out of the box. You only get the Start Screen part of Metro unless you install the desktop experience components.
24. Re:99% by marcosdumay · 2014-02-23 12:20 · Score: 1
  
  And since then you simply assume that everybody is just like the one worst experience you had on life?
  Looks like fun.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
25. Re:99% by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 12:40 · Score: 0
  
  Windows 8.1 is getting better, and the price cut on Windows should help them
26. Re:99% by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 13:01 · Score: 0
  
  Well let's be realistic, have you ever dealt with some really *swift* outsourced IT companies? My first question when I was on-site was, where is the test and development server? And they said there wasn't one.
  Yeah it was that bad.
  And you think that's the previous contractor's fault and not that they asked for QA but there was no funding for such things? You must be new.
27. Re:99% by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 14:08 · Score: 0
  
  Take some of the UK's clouds. Seriously, we've had our whole year's subscription already, feel free to take them!
28. Re:99% by FruitCak · 2014-02-23 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  I mean how can you fuck up sharepoint?
  
  By installing it?
  
  --
  I'm me. I think.
29. Re:99% by Darinbob · 2014-02-23 16:29 · Score: 1
  
  They think that they can get the same piece of the pie that Apple is getting from its store. Except that the Apple store is driven by a mix fanatical followers and people who buy apps because all the other kids in school are doing it. Microsoft doesn't have that same type of fan base. And you don't even need to use the Apple Store if you're using one of their computers rather than a phone/tablet.
30. Re:99% by WuphonsReach · 2014-02-23 16:33 · Score: 1
  
  SoGo. We run postfix/dovecot for our mail server and SoGo will be the next piece we install.
  
  And postfix/dovecot is so much better at dealing with large mailboxes then MSExchange ever was. The sieve scripting language is just icing on the cake. And being proper IMAP, add-in software just works without having to worry about some Microsoft incompatibility with their custom flavor of IMAP.
  
  Client side, we just run Thunderbird + Lightning (calendar/tasks). Which also deals well with mailboxes measured in gigabytes and hundreds of thousands of messages.
  
  --
  Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
31. Re:99% by Darinbob · 2014-02-23 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Store requires a login too. That's evil. And it requires reimaging to get rid of it. Seriously, requiring a login account to download free apps and some of the pre-installed apps? That's just stupid. It's spyware.
32. Re:99% by richy+freeway · 2014-02-23 19:59 · Score: 1
  
  They install conduit search which requires a reimage to get rid of.
  Seriously? You have to reimage a machine just to get rid of conduit? 10 minutes work with ADWCleaner and JRT are all it takes. I suggest handing in your geekcard at the door as you leave.
33. Re:99% by denis-The-menace · 2014-02-24 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  Check out https://www.kerio.com/connect
  
  --
  Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
34. Re:99% by lsatenstein · 2014-02-24 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  said the Windows 8.1 update will come with improvements for non-touch devices
  What a fantastic strategy -- to put a few afterthoughts into 99% of their market...
  Its a reaaction that is too late. Tablets with keyboards are the dominant force in the schools and with home users. Where does 8.1 fit in with business processing?
  
  --
  Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Start button? by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 02:38 · Score: 5, Interesting

The article talks about the "start button" making a comeback, but it obviously did in 8.1 already. Are they actually talking about Start Menu?
1. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:27 · Score: 0
  
  Virtual Desktops and being able to choose which monitor something launches on are what I would like.
  The start screen is not really detrimental I just use it the same as always - hit windows key and type. (Same way it should be used in 7)
  Other bits I used windows + x / windows + r / alt - f4.
2. Re:Start button? by gl4ss · 2014-02-23 03:29 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  8.1 start button is just a link to the start screen.
  if they really want to follow up on the ui designers bullshit line that they want to have the "power user"(someone who uses desktop, lol) interface as well.. then they have to get off their ass and do a proper start menu built in.
  I use win8.1, I've seen the start screen maybe 2 weeks ago last time.. and then I was installing some unsigned drivers(for sanguinololu, and yeah.. you have to go through one step in metro to do that.. which makes no sense if you believe that the ui guys reddit comments weren't just total damage control grade A bullshit).
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
3. Re:Start button? by _xeno_ · 2014-02-23 03:30 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Yeah, that's what I thought too, but reading the article, I think they may actually have meant the Start Button. Apparently the idea is to make it look more like the round button it is in Windows 7.
  Because that's clearly the problem.
  Reading other articles on the update it's clear that there are some minor fixes to using Metro with a mouse (right clicking will bring up a traditional context menu instead of bringing it up on the bottom of the screen), but the Start Menu (you know, what people actually want back) still will not be returning.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
4. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 03:48 · Score: 2
  
  I don't really see what the big deal is. I just got a new laptop with Windows 8.1 on it. First time ever actually using Windows 8, and at first, I was disgusted by the start 'screen'... but after a VERY short while, I realized that it was basically just a full-screen start menu that let you organize things by importance (how big the tile is) and also lets you see everything at once, vs the old way of having to carefully navigate up and right and into the menu hierarchy. Do I really need to see my open windows and part of my desktop behind the start menu when I'm just clicking to start a program? Not really.
  What I really STILL hate after a few days of using this laptop is how HORRIBLE the support for high-DPI screens is. This laptop is 15" with 2880x1620 pixels, and is set to 200% scaling/192 dpi. Windows OS components like mmc.exe are labeled as NOT dpi-aware in their manifest files, so you get this really stupid looking font scaling on half of the dialogs from Windows itself. Windows renders everything to an off-screen 96dpi buffer, then just scales that up 200%. The whole ClearType sub-pixel rendering is completely useless when you double all the red and blue pixel edges around fonts! Half of the programs I have installed look like complete garbage because they just don't care about supporting anything but 96dpi. Even Google Chrome suffers this horrible font issue, but luckily I prefer Firefox anyway, which is DPI-aware and renders fonts beatifically.
  
  --
  Morphing Software
5. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:56 · Score: 0
  
  Virtual Desktops and being able to choose which monitor something launches on are what I would like.
  You might like KDE. Its window manager called KWin does both of those things.
6. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:00 · Score: 0
  
  If you have and DVD or Blu-ray player try playing some videos on that OS :)
7. Re:Start button? by _xeno_ · 2014-02-23 04:15 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Do I really need to see my open windows and part of my desktop behind the start menu when I'm just clicking to start a program? Not really.
  Actually... yes. You do. Believe it or not.
  There's a concept called "doorway amnesia" where you'll tend to "forget" what it was you're doing when your surroundings change entirely. It's why everyone has experienced walking into a room and then forgetting why they went there in the first place. By entirely replacing the desktop and changing your context, it makes it harder to remember why you opened the Start Screen in the first place.
  The rest of the complaints have to do with it being slower to use than the start menu thanks in part to the transition animations. My personal annoyance is that not everything you have installed shows up there, instead they're hidden behind the down arrow. Yes, yes, you can "pin them to start" but after installing a new app, it always initially confuses me when I go looking for it and it isn't on the Start Screen.
  
  Windows renders everything to an off-screen 96dpi buffer, then just scales that up 200%.
  Does Windows do the bilinear filtering thing that the Retinal MacBooks do? I saw one running in a store, and the way it handles non-DPI aware apps is bilinearly scaling it up. Made the entire thing look very blurry.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
8. Re:Start button? by evilad · 2014-02-23 04:24 · Score: 2
  
  The worst thing about the hiDPI support is that they clearly *thought* about multi-monitor mixed-DPI support, and then utterly failed in execution. The "let me choose different DPIs for different screens" is so horribly broken that I can't even tell how it's supposed to work.
9. Re:Start button? by SternisheFan · 2014-02-23 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  The article talks about the "start button" making a comeback, but it obviously did in 8.1 already. Are they actually talking about Start Menu?
  There's always a workaround...
  http://www.howtogeek.com/12769...
  http://www.howtogeek.com/10771...
10. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. I have USB 3.0 ports and an SD card slot. I did install MPC-HC and watch plenty of 1080p content on that just fine. What's the issue you're getting at?
  
  --
  Morphing Software
11. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  Well you can always turn on the option to show your same desktop wallpaper behind the start screen. Might help some. I for one LOVE the fact that I don't have to manually delete all the crap extra icons programs install on the start menu like I used to on Win 7 and below. I can just leave all the garbage in the down-arrow screen and type-to-search the few things I want, and pin just those to the main screen. Once you remove all the junk on the start screen that came there by default, you can easily get a screen that doesn't even need to scroll sideways and fit all the commonly used icons there, neatly organized.
  There does not appear to be any filtering at all, at least not at 200% where it can just double up the pixels with ease. It might filter at 125% or 150%, I don't know. Here is a screenshot where I put arrows pointing at good and bad font rendering on a few screens of common OS things: http://ark42.com/win8.1/192dpi...
  
  --
  Morphing Software
12. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 04:47 · Score: 2
  
  Apps have to opt-in to being able to support that via a new manifest setting. Older apps, even ones that declare them selves DPI-aware, will just get the setting of the monitor that they open up on, then scale pixels if you drag the window to a different screen. Newer apps can now add a new per-screen-DPI-aware manifest setting, and then listen to some API calls to rescale themselves when needed I guess. Seems like a lot of work for corner cases for most people really, compared to, you know, having one programmer at Microsoft make mmc.exe at least regular DPI-aware?
  
  --
  Morphing Software
13. Re:Start button? by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  I have been surprised how well Classic Shell integrates to Win8. After installation, it feels like a core component of Windows. No taped-on feeling or anything.
  I wonder how it "taps on" to the Start Button click? One might think that it's quite tricky to intercept something like that.
14. Re:Start button? by SternisheFan · 2014-02-23 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  There is a forum section link on Classic Shell's home page here... http://www.classicshell.net/
  All windows versions have always been a pain to use in one way or another. Win8 with ClassicShell installed works fine for me, though I'm not a 'power user'.
15. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 05:28 · Score: 0
  
  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/dvd-playback-help
16. Re:Start button? by SternisheFan · 2014-02-23 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  ... and here's a link to HTG's page listing every one of it's "Win8 tips & tricks" articles...
  http://www.howtogeek.com/tag/w...
17. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 06:29 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Once you remove all the junk on the start screen that came there by default, you can easily get a screen that doesn't even need to scroll sideways and fit all the commonly used icons there, neatly organized.
  So it's like the desktop?
18. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 06:50 · Score: 0
  
  >There's a concept called "doorway amnesia"
  [citation needed}
  Seriously, try googling for the term "doorway amnesia". The closest thing to a mainstream reference that comes up is a mention in Scientific American of some random professor's research, which means that it's most probably unproven at this stage.
19. Re:Start button? by tepples · 2014-02-23 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  So how do you turn DVDs or BDs that you've purchased, rented, or received as a gift into videos that MPC-HC can play?
20. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 10:11 · Score: 1
  
  >There's a concept called "doorway amnesia"
  [citation needed}
  Seriously, try googling for the term "doorway amnesia". The closest thing to a mainstream reference that comes up is a mention in Scientific American of some random professor's research, which means that it's most probably unproven at this stage.
  I was going to post something about this, but when I clicked "Reply to This", the screen changed and I totally forgot who I am and where I was. Because I'm a fucking idiot.
21. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 11:29 · Score: 1
  
  I don't buy discs, I don't even have a disc reader on the laptop, so what's the point?
  
  --
  Morphing Software
22. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  I guess, except the Desktop always gets cluttered with files... and you can't make icons 4 difference sizes at once depending on how important the icon is on the desktop, and you can't really group or label icons like the start screen does, unless maybe you fix it into your wallpaper or use folders, which seems silly.
  
  --
  Morphing Software
23. Re:Start button? by Billly+Gates · 2014-02-23 11:43 · Score: 1
  
  Anti Slashdot and windows fanboy site, neowin.net mentioned mini start making a comeback in Windows 9 with 3 personas. Touch first, keyboard first and voice first.
  8.1 update one included jumplists for tiles and power being on the top of the screen. Yes MS heard us and is reversing.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
24. Re:Start button? by Your.Master · 2014-02-23 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  Projector scenarios are likely the killer-app for "per monitor DPI", and it's not actually all that rare in enterprise settings.
25. Re:Start button? by tepples · 2014-02-23 12:24 · Score: 1
  
  So instead of through discs, how do you lawfully obtain videos that MPC-HC can play?
26. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 12:49 · Score: 0
  
  Who gives a flying fuck about "lawfully" obtaining them?
  https://www.thepiratebay.se/ works better than any possible lawful method.
27. Re:Start button? by Draconix · 2014-02-23 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  Not only that, but it lets you do things like automatically grouping applications into single windows with tabs, too! Back when I switched from OS X to Linux, I thought I would end up missing OS X's clean, elegant UI, but now that I've been using KDE, OS X and Windows seem far, far too limiting. KDE allows me to adapt my environment to suit my ideal workflow, rather than requiring I adapt my workflow to suit my environment!
  
  --
  By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
28. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 14:13 · Score: 0
  
  Actually... yes. You do. Believe it or not.
  There's a concept called "doorway amnesia" where you'll tend to "forget" what it was you're doing when your surroundings change entirely. It's why everyone has experienced walking into a room and then forgetting why they went there in the first place. By entirely replacing the desktop and changing your context, it makes it harder to remember why you opened the Start Screen in the first place.
  Actually... no. You don't. I suppose you would also complain about any program launched from the Start Menu that opened full screen and covered up any windows currently opened on the desktop, because then you'd forget what you're doing. Actually, in the past I have experienced "doorway amnesia" when using Windows 7 with its traditional Start Menu. So, what's your excuse for that? Exactly. Your complaint is bullshit. I purposely went out and purchased Windows 8 and have been using it for six months. I like the new Start Screen, even without a touchscreen monitor.
29. Re:Start button? by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, this looks like simulating a bad VGA cable, or even a CRT monitor with bad convergence. Microsoft at least ought to disable Cleartype when rendering fonts in low PPI scaled up apps.
  On the other hand your task bar looks awesome - when the icons are vector graphics or very high res.
30. Re:Start button? by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 15:47 · Score: 1
  
  It's useful in Windows 7 even. The default Win 7 start menu actually is a bit bad for browsing hierarchical menus.
31. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 16:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I can't think of any reason they should have kept ClearType on behind the scenes when scaling is done like that. It's just plain stupid.
  I think it was back when XP came out that Microsoft started recommending all apps include a 256x256 alpha-channel icon instead of just 16x16 and 32x32 and 16/256 color with palette transparency. Any app that actually follows those specs will scale down the icon to the 64x64 needed in that screenshot. The stupid thing is it's all MS apps that don't follow the guidelines and look terrible with fonts or icons: VS2003, MMC.EXE (which runs Device Manager, etc)
  
  --
  Morphing Software
32. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 16:33 · Score: 1
  
  So I generated this B&W example of what this issue does to the fonts, when you take into account RGB sub-pixels: http://ark42.com/win8.1/192dpi...
  It's really quite terrible.
  
  --
  Morphing Software
33. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 19:37 · Score: 0
  
  Well, for one... I uninstalled Windows 8.1 last week because a Windows update came through and it totally shit the bed. I lost my start screen entirely. Windows took a good 5 minutes to boot, for whatever random reason could not load my profile (reason unknown), and decided that i don't actually need anything on my start screen. The only way I could run anything was with task manager via ctrl+alt+del, which I used to back up my data, give Windows 8.1 (which i've been running for 4-5 months in as an early adopter/IT guinea pig at work) a big fat F for fail and go back to Windows 7 until Microsoft sort their shit out.
34. Re:Start button? by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 20:25 · Score: 1
  
  This story made me look up how to change pinned icons in the task bar.
  http://www.howtogeek.com/howto...
  I never knew it simply was a directory with shortcuts in it :-) : %appdata%/Microsoft/Internet Explorer/Quick Launch/User Pinned/Taskbar
  As for Cleartype they would have to update their font rendering code so it can be switched off/on extremely quickly. Or you can choose to leave it permanently off - I would like to experiment with sub-pixel rendering on/off to get for myself an idea of how it looks like at high PPI.
35. Re:Start button? by Ark42 · 2014-02-24 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  I know it can be turned on/off in code already, because application can choose to ignore system defaults and use or not use ClearType on their own already.
  
  --
  Morphing Software
36. Re:Start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-24 07:40 · Score: 0
  
  if they really want to follow up on the ui designers bullshit line that they want to have the "power user"(someone who uses desktop, lol) interface as well.. then they have to get off their ass and do a proper start menu built in.
  They need to do more than that. They need to fire the UX designers and rehire some old UI designers who knew what power users wanted.
  To me, that means (1) Bring back focus-follows-mouse / Powertoys XP (versus having to hack the registry in Win7, and I never ran Win8 so I don't know if the hack still works), and (2) Hierarchical menus. Display keyboard shortcuts. Basically, undo most of the stuff the U"X" folks put in. Less marketing-fashionista-experience, more user-interface.
I touch my device... by EzInKy · 2014-02-23 02:50 · Score: 1

...as little as possible. What's up with this obsession to play with every second of every day anyway?

--
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
1. Re:I touch my device... by RandomFactor · 2014-02-23 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  Kent.... Stop touching your device.
  
  --
  --- Mercutio was right.
2. Re:I touch my device... by SeaFox · 2014-02-23 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  ...as little as possible. What's up with this obsession to play with every second of every day anyway?
  Maybe to make up for the lack of human contact we have in today's increasingly "connected" world.
Spring? by rossdee · 2014-02-23 02:56 · Score: 1, Insightful

The time of spring varies in different parts of the world. Where I was brought up, spring was in late September or early October, and where I live now its in May.
1. Re:Spring? by tepples · 2014-02-23 09:06 · Score: 2
  
  The time of spring varies in different parts of the world.
  Microsoft's primary headquarters is in Greater Seattle, not Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa.
Best use for Windows 8.. by GrBear · 2014-02-23 02:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

The best use of a Windows 8 license is to downgrade to Windows 7.
1. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Lifyre · 2014-02-23 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  I believe they call that Reddit these days.
  
  --
  I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
2. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:03 · Score: 0
  
  Reddit is more like a downgrade from Heaven to Hell.
3. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by fermion · 2014-02-23 04:26 · Score: 1
  
  will come with improvements for non-touch devices
  I thought this meant that user would be able to boot to a Windows 7 type interface. That is about the only way to improve the user experience. Apple made the same mistake. In trying to make their office productivity suite work on the iPad, they destroyed many useful features. The also killed compatibility between file format as MS did in the late 90's.
  In a profit driven world, the changes are going to follow the perceived direction of the market. For MS, who still makes most of it's money from corporate clients, the rush toward mobile computers and Metro makes little sense. I don't know why they did not make a decision to create a fork, like they did with NT, and keep two operating systems in the market.
  
  --
  "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
4. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Uberbah · 2014-02-23 04:50 · Score: 1
  
  Could even say upgrade to Windows 7. Just as Windows XP was an ease-of-use and performance upgrade over Vista.
5. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 10:13 · Score: 0
  
  Could even say upgrade to Windows 7. Just as Windows XP was an ease-of-use and performance upgrade over Vista.
  Interestingly, 8.1 performs better and is easier to use than 7.
6. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 12:53 · Score: 0
  
  Well, except that it doesn't perform better, and is harder to use. Yeah, except for that.
7. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 15:50 · Score: 1
  
  There are performance improvement, mostly the graphics task is highly advanced. Plus miscellaneous kernel improvements and stuff.
8. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 15:51 · Score: 1
  
  I meant the graphics stack, duh. I must be suffering from doorway amnesia because of all those crappy AC comments.
9. Re:Best use for Windows 8.. by nikkipolya · 2014-03-07 06:15 · Score: 1
  
  MS didn't fork because they wanted to make their desktop users (95% market share) *naturally* get used to and then gravitate to the windows mobile market (2% share). Windows mobile lacked apps and app developers. So they wanted to capitalize on their existing windows desktop app's and app developers by making them develop for the common windows 8 platform. As Ballmer said, Windows 8 is a big risk for MS. The risk that the mobile market may instead drag the desktop market share in its direction. Reducing the desktop market to ~2%.
It's simple: provide a choice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

You put a gigantic switch in the Control Panel somewhere: "Enable touchscreen UI (recommended for tablet use) / Disable touchscreen UI (recommended for desktop use)". Throw the switch to the latter option and you get something that approximates the Windows 7 UI. You could even call it "Classic" mode, like has been done for the last 2 versions of Windows. Nobody liked the default Windows XP "Playschool" theme. Many people didn't like the default Windows 7 theme. They were no big deal. Make it easy for users to choose, and people will complain a lot less about the defaults. Give them no choice and, yeah, they're going to complain bitterly (Windows 8), until third-parties step in to fix the problem (e.g., Classic Shell).
Stick an "Advanced" button in there to allow tweaking of individual features.
Microsoft is the last one I would have thought needed to be schooled about the value of choice, but they made the same mistake with the recent versions of Office. Experiment, but please have some respect for what users of your product have already learned.
1. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:55 · Score: 0
  
  Your comments are spot on. As far as the choice thing and your thought that Microsoft shouldn't have had to be schooled on choice being important - remember what they are doing here. They are trying to learn from Apple about how to get insane market share for tablets (as they see the desktop / full notebook becoming a smaller and smaller niche). What did they learn from Apple? They learned that users will accept not having a choice. Look at how Apple does it. Can't switch the on-screen keyboard out with a replacement, can't switch the default browser. Everywhere you go on iOS you find a lack of choice. That's what Microsoft learned. They are starting to realize that their legacy base are the only ones who will bother to try their new OS and that their base wants choice. Big oops on them.
2. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 03:56 · Score: 1
  
  You put a gigantic switch in the Control Panel somewhere: "Enable touchscreen UI (recommended for tablet use) / Disable touchscreen UI (recommended for desktop use)".
  This is probably something that is going to happen soon. It's bound to.
3. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by michrech · 2014-02-23 04:34 · Score: 2
  
  You put a gigantic switch in the Control Panel somewhere: "Enable touchscreen UI (recommended for tablet use) / Disable touchscreen UI (recommended for desktop use)".
  This is probably something that is going to happen soon. It's bound to.
  It's something that *should have been there from the Start*.
  
  --
  bork bork bork!
4. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by tuxrulz · 2014-02-23 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  Omg, this is really archaic. I remember a PC-BSD forum discussion like 3 years ago, around the development of their 2nd release if I'm correct, where they where discussing about a feature that was different on laptops and desktops, and where looking at ways to automate that detection, instead of showing a button.
  
  If at the end, they succeeded on that, is shameful MS with all it's resources can't find a sensible automatic detection approach.
5. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by tuxrulz · 2014-02-23 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  btw, the switch should be there in case someone wants to turn it on or off at will, but at install time touch UI should be automatically detected
6. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 08:05 · Score: 0
  
  Remember to right mouse click the Start button to get to the real Win 8.x Control Panel. Metro setup sucks balls.
7. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by purpledinoz · 2014-02-23 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Don't you see that Microsoft is secretly helping us prevent degenerative brain diseases? Forcing us to learn a new UI is like learning a new language, which is correlated with better brain health. Thank you Microsoft! I bet their next step is to randomly move buttons around after every boot. Now that would be a great workout for the brain!
8. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by Your.Master · 2014-02-23 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think it should even be that. There's a specific touch gesture to get the start screen. You should get that when you use touch. You should get the other thing when you use mouse. And a hardware winkey on an actual keyboard should get the mouse one, and one on a tablet should get the touch one.
  And there *should* be a way to get the touch stuff via mouse and vice-versa, but the default should be optimized to what the user is using.
9. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by batwingTM · 2014-02-23 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  Well, sadly it isn't as simple as restoring a old UI, as the new UI was built from the begining specifically for touch devices. Even Apple recognised that a tablet OS and a desktop OS are two different things (although there is more commonality then there used to be)
  As for Office (2007 onwards) that is an even more ammusing story, which probably holds some understanding as to why Windows 8 is the way it is.
  Story goes that after Office 2003 was released MS asked a lot of their customers what they wanted to see in the next version of Office. A large portion of what was suggested already existed. MS's takeaway was that the current menu system was to complex and they introduced the ribbon to simplify the interface. My takeawy is that most Office users use it for basic tasks only
  Given what MS did with the Start screen in Win 8, I have no trouble believing that. Perhaps MS need to do a little more research into the people who are currently using thier products instead of purely focusing on the new aspects.
  
  --
  Leg Godt!
10. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 15:02 · Score: 0
  
  Sure, make it automatic. But there should be an easy way for a human to override the automatic detection if that's what they want.
11. Re:It's simple: provide a choice by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 19:41 · Score: 0
  
  Ahhh but.... if they do that, then no one will develop for the touch UI (they'll just write for Win32 and target XP, 7, 8, etc.), and Windows tablets will die a horrible death even more than they currently are. This is not about what is best for the user, it is all about Microsoft using their near monopoly on the desktop to break into the tablet market.
Start Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:09 · Score: 0

I was confused about this as well, and double-checked the date on the article on both this and the source article page, thinking I'd somehow slipped in to a time vortex without spilling my coffee cup.
I'm guessing they're referring to Microsoft adding Power and Search options to the Start Screen, which have been sorely missed by some. I myself made a shortcuts for Shut Down and Restart.
1. Re:Start Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:15 · Score: 0
  
  Why you need a Search option? Just type and it searches. Just like the old Start Menu.
2. Re:Start Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:26 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  And when you have multiple versions of the same product installed (in different directories) for testing purposes, how does seach really resolve that?
  The old menu system worked perfectly in cases like this. THen there are the cases where can't remember the name of the executable and the menu system removed the need to even know it in the first place.
3. Re:Start Screen by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  Because Win+X is to hard to press?
  
  --
  Morphing Software
4. Re:Start Screen by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 03:48 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And when you have multiple versions of the same product installed (in different directories) for testing purposes, how does seach really resolve that?
  I've found this a bit problematic too. The search gives you no context about where the found item is. It's just like a big pool of files and program shortcuts with all the hierarchy lost. Also, as the "All Apps" view in Start Screen is incredibly clunky to use, no wonder people resort to just searching.
5. Re:Start Screen by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 03:59 · Score: 2
  
  It just shows how borked the current UI is, as people regularly have to resort to some undiscoverable secret menu to get through basic tasks.
6. Re:Start Screen by urbanriot · 2014-02-23 04:13 · Score: 1
  
  ... which is obvious to Windows users?
7. Re:Start Screen by Ark42 · 2014-02-23 04:35 · Score: 1
  
  It probably tells you about Win+X and all the other keyboard shortcuts in one of the tutorials or other junk at first boot that I didn't watch. I also know on the start screen you can click your login name and get a menu with shutdown/restart/etc. In control panel somewhere you can also toggle additional options on/off for that menu like hibernate.
  
  --
  Morphing Software
8. Re:Start Screen by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 04:48 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It probably tells you about Win+X and all the other keyboard shortcuts in one of the tutorials or other junk at first boot that I didn't watch.
  Well, it does not. It tells you this:
  "Hi. While we're getting things ready, check out the new way to use Windows. After your PC is ready, move your mouse into any corner. Let's start."
9. Re: Start Screen by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 07:33 · Score: 0
  
  GUI = Grapical User Interface.
  Unless DOS is making a comeback.
  Those little templates that went over the function keys where cool.
10. Re:Start Screen by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 15:20 · Score: 1
  
  If I find myself using a Windows 8 computer and looking for a particular installed program (say Virtualbox) I cop out and browse Program Files. Win+r, %programfiles%, return : the task is done and I didn't have to learn and remember the new shortcuts.
11. Re:Start Screen by cbhacking · 2014-02-23 19:54 · Score: 1
  
  ... because hitting Start (or any of any of several ways to open the Start menu/screen, take your pick) and typing "virt" is harder? You know, that trick that has worked since Vista, and is *way* better for productivity than any amount of browsing through anything at all?
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
12. Re:Start Screen by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-23 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, typing even though no search field is shown, then dealing with the dynamic crap that shows up is harder, because I don't like animations and Gnome 3 / Unity clones.
13. Re:Start Screen by spongman · 2014-02-23 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  The metro search is significantly slower than the old win7 start menu search.
  It's cluttered with metro and web results so sometimes it doesn't even show what you're looking for.
  You can't choose just files and settings to search for.
  The sort order is reset every time you boot.
too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

I moved to KDE on Debian and haven't looked back.
You are hemorrhaging users to phones, tablets, OSX, gamers to game consoles, power users to Linux.... pretty much everything that isn't Windows. We told you people were only using Windows because there was no choice, but you failed to listen and use the chance to improve your technology. Now, it's too late. There are other choices, and people are moving to them. To quote B5:
"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
1. Re: too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed. I've been a long term Windows-only user but decided to replace my aging core2duo laptop with a MacBook Pro solely because Microsoft offended me with Windows 8.
  I haven't looked back since.
2. Re: too late, Microsoft by Bing+Tsher+E · 2014-02-23 04:10 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  My wife bought a new Windows 8.1 laptop yesterday. I got a new 8.1. tablet last week.
  We looked at the abandoned aisle for the Apple stuff at Frys. There wasn't anybody there at all. The sales clerks were busy trying to keep up with the people buying Windows laptops.
3. Re: too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:17 · Score: 0
  
  The sales clerks were busy trying to keep up with the people buying Windows laptops.
  ... and that's why Apple is the world's largest technology company taking in 37.5B per year, with a market cap greater than any other publicly traded company on earth, and Microsoft is fading fast.
4. Re: too late, Microsoft by MightyMartian · 2014-02-23 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  And other faerie tales MS devotees tell themselves.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
5. Re: too late, Microsoft by michrech · 2014-02-23 04:37 · Score: 1
  
  The sales clerks were busy trying to keep up with the people buying Windows laptops.
  ... and that's why Apple is the world's largest technology company taking in 37.5B per year, with a market cap greater than any other publicly traded company on earth, and Microsoft is fading fast.
  It's unfortunate that Apple won't release numbers broken down by product, but it is my belief that the majority of that 37.5B is for portable devices, with their computer side being a fraction of that (probably a healthy fraction, but a fraction none-the-less).
  
  --
  bork bork bork!
6. Re: too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  no they weren't
  Lying on the net is easy.
7. Re: too late, Microsoft by rubycodez · 2014-02-23 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  could it be you live in a weird place and are both weirdos? 8D
  Apple and Android products flying off the shelves at stores around me, Windows 8 hardware not moving much
8. Re: too late, Microsoft by rubycodez · 2014-02-23 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  guess again
  http://wallstcheatsheet.com/te...
9. Re:too late, Microsoft by CRC'99 · 2014-02-23 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  I moved to KDE on Debian and haven't looked back.
  You are hemorrhaging users to phones, tablets, OSX, gamers to game consoles, power users to Linux.... pretty much everything that isn't Windows. We told you people were only using Windows because there was no choice, but you failed to listen and use the chance to improve your technology. Now, it's too late. There are other choices, and people are moving to them. To quote B5:
  "The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
  In a way, I agree - but I can't say that I like KDE or Gnome 3. I ended up settling on XFCE using Fedora 20. It boots fast, everything works as it should (except a PCI DVB card - but I already had a spare USB one that works fine).
  Thunderbird for email, Chrome for web browsing, terminal, Steam for my TF2 fix, and it all 'just works' - especially now the open source radeon driver does dynamic power management correctly.
  I'm just in the middle of purchasing a new laptop - and the first thing that will happen is it be formatted and Fedora 20 get installed. I've also moved away from Google for contacts / calendar sync and now using OwnCloud (private stuff ftw!), and Dropbox is also replaced by OwnCloud. I'm finally getting to have a say in my OS and data security!
  
  --
  Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
10. Re: too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 07:08 · Score: 0
  
  That's not my experience in New York, London, Paris, or Tokyo.
  Maybe in Shitsville Wyoming people are buying Windows desktops/laptops/notebooks/tablets/mobiles, I dunno.
11. Re: too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 07:10 · Score: 0
  
  What is Frys?
12. Re: too late, Microsoft by Bing+Tsher+E · 2014-02-23 13:12 · Score: 1
  
  I prefer the article linked to at the bottom of the article you linked:
  Analyst: Apple Could Become the Next Microsoft
  But, then, we'll all use whatever platforms are out there and affordable, now, won't we?
13. Re:too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 14:08 · Score: 0
  
  After my hp notebook stopped working went to buy a new one. All that was available was Win8. Not wanting to purchase anything running that garbage I went home and dug-out an older under-powered notebook, wiped the drive and installed Linux. It was amazing, that old notebook is now faster than ever without microcrap windows !
14. Re: too late, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-24 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  What is Frys?
  
  Big-box (and I mean big-box brick-and-mortar chain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRpQLPF0nNA
  The best part of Fry's is that nobody there knows anything and the staff tends to ignore the customers, which means you just walk in, drool over toys, then stumble in the general direction of the store that sells RAM, Motherboards, power supplies, cases, and other components, pick the stuff you want, and buy it. Pricing is decent. Selection, for brick-and-mortar, is unparalleled. There's even an electronic tools/components section where you can buy everything from brand-new DSO scopes to vintage EPROMs.
15. Re: too late, Microsoft by rubycodez · 2014-02-24 13:50 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't matter what most people use, Apple already makes more profit and is worth more than Microsoft. There is no reason for them to make razor thin margins on what panders to the masses, Microsoft can feed itself to that meat grinder.
Re:Windows is for Grandpas by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 03:53 · Score: 1

It's not that obvious. If we look past the recent Start Screen silliness, the NT 6 core has made Windows a fine OS in general.
Who cares. Windows is obsolete anyway. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:03 · Score: 0

Who cares. Windows is obsolete anyway.
Doubt it will impress many by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:07 · Score: 0

So far my hopes for a more traditional improvement in Windows 8 has not happened. I have pretty much lost hope that the next incremental installment will satisfy.
To be honest I don't mind Windows 8 in classic mode, but then again I have that in Windows 7. So why spend $120 to upgrade to get apps I don't even care
to use on a PC? This is really the issue with Windows 8 and PC users. Nobody really cares about touch screens or duel user interfaces trying to mix tablet preferred Modern desktop with traditional classic desktop. Tablet users will prefer Apps and PC users classic programs. Stands to reason Microsoft could have simply defaulted Windows 8 to a classic desktop UI and tablets to a Modern desktop. I bought my wife a Surface RT which works very well with apps and is terrible with Office in classic mode. My wife a big user of Office finds it so handicapped on a tablet its just not worth it. Touch screens are not nearly as precise to input things which is why we have full screen apps and big tiles and buttons. Stands to reason, they require bigger input areas. PC's on the other hand consider tiles and full screen apps a waste of good space. So for me Microsoft either needs to dramatically reverse itself on the duel UI of Windows 8 soon. Or risk alienating all of Windows users into staying with Windows 7.
Belfiore is a used car salesman so belive him by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:11 · Score: 0

as you would any other used car salesman! Nothing the dude has ever said turned out to be the truth!
Re:Windows is for Grandpas by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:13 · Score: 0

its a horrid os with dll madness an registry shit hole on top of that its a resource hog - and you need permission from vendor to run it
Re:Windows is for Grandpas by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 04:24 · Score: 1

True.
Much-hyped start button? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 04:41 · Score: 1

How is a 19 year old square on the screen that was removed due to the absolute retardation of Ballmer and company a much hyped new feature? Can they accept it's too little too late for Win 8?
A peek at Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 05:12 · Score: 0

If you want a closer look on what's happening at Microsoft, check the upcoming Build Conference and the stuff at MSDN Channel 9.
1. Re:A peek at Microsoft by rubycodez · 2014-02-23 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  and if you don't give a shit and have moved on to better alternatives, don't
2. Re:A peek at Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 07:16 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks, Captain Obvious. ;)
Yes it is hard to press Win+X via RDP by mimino · 2014-02-23 05:17 · Score: 4, Informative

Yes it is hard to press Win+X via a remote desktop connection to a server that got tablet-optimized interface with Windows Server 2012.
1. Re:Yes it is hard to press Win+X via RDP by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 10:30 · Score: 1
  
  Additionally, Ctrl-Alt-Ins gets filtered in RDC with 8.1, and no one at MS seems to have the foggiest idea why this was done. Rebooting VMs running in VMWare Workstation on my work machine now requires an explicit mouse/menu action when I'm working remotely.
Reddit is more of an upgrade by mimino · 2014-02-23 05:18 · Score: 1

Reddit is more of an upgrade
Will someone get fired? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2014-02-23 05:32 · Score: 1

I guess they're giving up on their Unified Experience of Terrible.

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1. Re:Will someone get fired? by jones_supa · 2014-02-23 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  Ballmer and Larson-Green were at control when those decisions were originally made. No big shots to fire anymore.
Just make the damn thing work. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 07:02 · Score: 0

For over 2 decades I have been the loving husband and help desk for a typical 'Just make the damn thing work' user who buys hardware and uses whatever OS came with it. When she moved from XP to Vista SHE LIKED IT! The Win8.1 laptop I got her for Christmas is the most frustrating computer she has ever used. She has to learn new ways of doing all the basic day-to-day tasks and the changes aren't always obvious of intuitive. For the first time in her computing history I am teaching her keyboard shortcuts because that is the only way I can figure out how to make 8.1 behave.
For her next computer I may just swallow my pride and prejudice and get her a computer that just plain works out of the box; an Apple.
Microsoft will do well in non-touch devices. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2014-02-23 08:00 · Score: 1

I am very very sure Microsoft will do very well with the non-touch devices. Who can even hold a candle to Microsoft when it comes to being out of touch with its customers?

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RDP from Surface by tepples · 2014-02-23 08:58 · Score: 1

I guess they over estimated how many people are running server 2013 on tablets.
Microsoft may have assumed that system administrators might RDP into a server from a Surface tablet. Then Surface tablets failed to sell in the numbers that Microsoft hoped.
1. Re:RDP from Surface by cbhacking · 2014-02-23 19:40 · Score: 1
  
  They actually underestimated Surface Pro sales and had supply line problems for a while, but Surface RT definitely didn't sell as well as hoped.
  That said, even Surface RT supports mouse-and-keyboard input (either through the Touch or Type Covers, through Bluetooth, or through USB) so while touch-through-RDP does work well enough, it's not necessarily reasonable to assume that somebody trying to do remote admin from a Surface (or one of the many other Win8 tablets and handful of other Windows RT tablets) *would* be using touch. On the other hand, I can remote in from my phone too, in which case I'm almost certainly using touch...
  
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When the Apple Store is 90 miles away by tepples · 2014-02-23 09:11 · Score: 1

That depends on where you live. Some people like to see a device's monitor in person and touch its keyboard before buying, and they aren't willing to book a Greyhound bus trip to an Apple Retail Store 90 miles (145 km) away. So instead, they settle for a local Apple Authorized Reseller.
Problems with country on ownCloud provider page by tepples · 2014-02-23 09:20 · Score: 1

One drawback of ownCloud is that you'll probably have to either pay to lease an account from these guys or pay to upgrade your Internet connection to business class in order to satisfy TOS or CGNAT restrictions imposed by the ISP serving your area against running an externally accessible server at home.
Another thing about the list of providers confuses me: Why does saxonsitsolutions.com.au have the Great Britain flag next to it when .com.au means Australia? And why does it have the Great Britain flag on OwnDrive, which is based in Norway? Hmmm....
"Much-hyped?" Fuck you. by GrumblyStuff · 2014-02-23 09:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's NOT about the fucking start button. It's the old menu system. It's the dumb "charms" and hot spots and other touchscreen bullshit.
Continuity of context by tepples · 2014-02-23 09:32 · Score: 4, Informative

It's like the mobile version of Slashdot. On the desktop computer version of classic Slashdot, clicking Reply to This adds a text area below the comment to which I am replying. Opening Reply to This in a new window shows just the comment to which I am replying and the text area. The important part is that some context remains visible, namely the comment to which I am replying. But when I try to reply to a comment on the mobile version of Slashdot, the comment to which I am replying disappears entirely, meaning I not only lose my train of thought but also can't even quote the parts of the comment to which I am replying.
Likewise, the full-screen Start Screen of Windows 8 hides context that the partial-screen Start Menu leaves visible, even with the option to use the same wallpaper introduced in Windows 8.1. That's why I use Classic Shell on my Windows 8.1 PC at work.
Are you asserting that continuity of context is unimportant?
Buying a new PC by tepples · 2014-02-23 09:52 · Score: 1

To be honest I don't mind Windows 8 in classic mode, but then again I have that in Windows 7. So why spend $120 to upgrade to get apps I don't even care to use on a PC?
Because your PC has failed, the manufacturer has discontinued the replacement parts, and new PCs ship with Windows 8.1.
1. Re:Buying a new PC by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 13:33 · Score: 0
  
  http://store.apple.com/
  If you're going to have to replace it anyway, might as well get one that works.
2. Re:Buying a new PC by tepples · 2014-02-23 14:31 · Score: 1
  
  You'd still have to spend $120 for a copy of Windows 8.1 to run in a VM on your shiny new Mac in order to continue to use your Windows applications.
Where to click by Tony+Isaac · 2014-02-23 10:42 · Score: 2

We found people weren’t aware of where they should look in the UI.
Amazing, they must have finally done some actual usability testing!
User metrics are well documented. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 12:48 · Score: 0

I had licensed copies of Windows 8 and VS on my laptop complements of the last dev-studio I worked for. I have no idea where the copies of those license keys are, yet last week I reformatted the thing with Ubuntu, then Fedora, then Ubuntu again just to get proper LaTeX and Git environments. It's a better note-taker than any Windows machine could ever be.
I REALLY liked Windows 7, I thought MS was really onto something with it. The new UI, everything, it was an almost pixel-perfect workstation (for Photoshop, Flash development etc). I still have Windows 8 on my desktop, but that's only because Start8 makes it behave like Win 7 and all the Blu-Ray patents keeping Open Source BD players out of the market. I'd just rather spend the 100$ (cost of a BD player software) on something else.
Capitol v. Thomas by tepples · 2014-02-23 12:56 · Score: 1

Who gives a flying fuck about "lawfully" obtaining them?
Anyone who doesn't want to be the next Jammie Thomas that the industry decides to make an example of.
Too fucking late... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-23 14:02 · Score: 0

1. It's too fucking late. Microsoft is done for.
2. IBM announced today it will post minor updates to OS2, finally allowing it to take its rightful place as the premier OS.
windows by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-24 05:53 · Score: 0

I am using windows 7. Should I upgrade to windows 8.1 or wait awhile?
Maybe you're using it wrong by Lord+Chaos+EOG · 2014-02-24 10:18 · Score: 1

I use several Windows Server 2013 daily and I have no problem with any "touch screen optimized" interface, despite no touch screen anywhere. Server 2013 is a vast improvement over 2008.
x86 tablet by Lord+Chaos+EOG · 2014-02-24 10:20 · Score: 1

Even Surface 2 Pro doesn't come with 3G, let alone 4G. Microsoft missed the bus.
1. Re:x86 tablet by petermgreen · 2014-02-24 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  Umm according to http://surface.microsoftstore.... The lower models come with 4GB of ram and the higher models come with 8GB of ram.
  
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2. Re:x86 tablet by petermgreen · 2014-03-02 16:18 · Score: 1
  
  Oh sorry I thought you were talking about ammounts of ram, rereading it seems more likely you were talking about mobile phone standards.
  
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I suppose by MrKaos · 2014-02-26 00:24 · Score: 1

it's still not the year of Windows on the tablet.

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