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Tesla Used A Third of All Electric-Car Batteries Last Year
cartechboy writes "We've heard about Tesla building this new gigafactory to produce battery packs for its electric cars. Heck, the company's current bottleneck is its ability to get battery packs for its electric cars. In fact, last year Tesla used a bit more than one-third of the auto industry's electric-car batteries, and that was with only selling 22,477 cars last year. Tesla is expanding its model lineup as quickly as possible with the introduction of the Model X crossover next year and a compact sports sedan in 2017. With the rapid expansion of its vehicle line, Tesla is going to need a crazy amount of battery packs, and quickly. Thus, the Silicon Valley upstart is building the gigafactory to engineer and produce battery packs in much larger quantities. If Tesla can remove the battery production bottle neck it's currently facing, the only question left will be market acceptance of a mainstream electric car."
They better hurry then, March is a few days away. Time be marching away from them otherwise.
They should go straight to December larger.
Is 1,000 x bigger than megafactory?
1,000,000 x bigger than kilofactory?
last year Tesla used a bit more than one-third of the auto industry's electric-car batteries, and that was with only selling 22,477 cars last year.
So this was last year? :p
At current projected usage, Tesla is threatening to use up all the supply of batteries by 2016, and then there'll be trouble. I foresee a US invasion of Fremont in the near future as mayor Gus Morrisson continues to engage in belligerent talk and saber rattling related to commercial zone redistricting and increased parking fines. Rumors still abound regarding the untimely demise of his predecessor Bob Wasserman. Was it pneumonia, or something far more sinister?
And I love the fact that slashdot gives them great coverage!
the only question left will be market acceptance of a mainstream electric car
No, I do not think that is even an unanswered question at this point. The biggest question I have is, will there be a STANDARD connector for quick charging batteries so that after driving 200 miles, can we re-charge the batteries in a few minutes no matter what brand of car we're driving?
Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option.
However, I do see the possibility of all this changing how we travel. Especially if the Autonomous automobile becomes a reality. This would allow people to travel by train / airplane and "rent" a vehicle only for getting to / from transportation hubs and local travel.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Really? Marketplace acceptance when they can get $90k for a sedan?
No, the real question(s) left are - can you make it affordable and can you accelerate and standardize recharging, because most people out there wouldn't care if their cars ran on donkey shit if it was affordable, quiet, efficient, and you could "fill up" whenever and wherever you needed to.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Let's see about the benefits.
No cooling water
No oil
No flammable liquid fuel
No brake fluid
No grease
No "fan" belts
No noise of consequence
No engine and drive train with 2000 parts
No internal combustion engine repairs/adjustments
Very low brake pad usage (unless you are 18 years old)
Hello
motives questioned
Is a 'gigafactory' one that is a thousand million times bigger than a typical Detroit automobile factory? I am not quite sure I understand the term....
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/08/finally_hollands_lg_chem_plant.html
Maybe I should just realize that battery factories take time to build, and it's actually the materials that are the stopping point.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Is a 'gigafactory' one that is a thousand million times bigger than a typical Detroit automobile factory? I am not quite sure I understand the term....
It means it has a cool name, and has a googleplex of ideas.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Tesla is going to need a crazy amount of battery packs
Lucky they don't need a gigacrazy amount of battery packs, they'd have to build a super-duper-gigafactory.
It's an interesting article for perspective but somewhat inaccurate. The article fails to point out that not all Lithium batteries are the same. The Volt for example uses such a different battery chemistry that it tends not to catch on fire even when punctured. The one simulated in lab fire occurred from the battery coolant catching on fire after it had a chance to dry out. (Took about a week.) The trade off is that the Volt's battery has lower power density which means that it holds less power for a battery its size. The Tesla S uses laptop batteries which have great battery density but have the obvious trade-off of catching on fire when punctured. An Iphone uses a Lithium Polymer battery which has some of the highest energy densities of all Lithium batteries. The downside is they explode when punctured. In a small device like a phone or tablet this isn't a big deal but in a Car which this would give it some amazing range, if it crashed it would literally be a bomb on wheels.
Gimme a barebones Yaris like car, not the ugly ass 2013 Yaris for say $12-15K CDN and I'm in.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I think the point of the name is the capacity in watts of the proposed factory.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Why even post something like that? Is uninformed cynicism what passes for a constructive comment these days?
The location of the gigafactory has not yet been announced, but Musk said it would include lots of solar and wind to power it, leading many analysts to assume somewhere in the southwest U.S., such as New Mexico.....
---The Motley Fool
You've got to be fucking kidding me.
"Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option."
Renting a car for $500/pop three times a year is "too expensive" for a guy who has no problem dropping $90,000 on a car? I could see that the inconvenience might be a reason, but cost? We rented a mini-van a couple times a year for our family vacations because the sedan wasn't big enough. NBD.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
how does a factory have a capacity in watts?
Is a 'gigafactory' one that is a thousand million times bigger than a typical Detroit automobile factory? I am not quite sure I understand the term....
Just be happy they didn't call it an eFactory...
I'll buy one when I can get a consistently reliable 500 mile range (at -20 degrees C exterior temperature, +20 interior, with headlights on too) out of it. Recharge at 40 to 60A (230V) at home is acceptable. That likely means a 200 kwh battery pack. So about 2.5x increase in energy density over what we have now. This will probably be available in the next 10 years. The advantages of electric given this sort of range will all but kill other powertrains for most cars. Those advantages will easily pay for a battery swapout every 5 years or so.
Ian Ameline
They need to make on the order of a billion battery cells per year to make the packs for their future car and to bring forward their grid backup storage plans...
i wonder how many furlongs it will be end to end.
It's the amount of battery capacity in KWH it will make in a year or something like that. Not very accurate but does have some relationship to the business....
love is just extroverted narcissism
When you are creating energy storage mechanisms?
Giga, as in many Giga Watts of cells produced per year.
Did Tesla BUY slashdot or do they just blow you daily? I think Tesla stories are hitting 2 a day now.
Is there still a problem with the Beta, then? The most glaring problems have been fixed already and that's why the "fuck beta" rants have mostly cooled down.
Why even post something like that? Is uninformed cynicism what passes for a constructive comment these days?
The location of the gigafactory has not yet been announced, but Musk said it would include lots of solar and wind to power it, leading many analysts to assume somewhere in the southwest U.S., such as New Mexico.....
---The Motley Fool
It's completely irresponsible and foolish to speculate that the gigafactory will be built in New Mexico. The obvious location would be in Watts.
That year by year fro the cars tehy already have sold there will have to be replacements and they do degrade losing that touted milage quot for these things. And with extreme environment (like below freezing and summers over 90 degrees) the batteries degrade much faster so those distances people thought they would get suddenly dwindles downm requiring new batteries or changing to a more conventional technology.
They say that people who buy these electric cars used, better be ready to have to replace the wornout batteries, which adds upto an outlay of an an appreciable percentage of the original price. (Tesla can get enough for their NEW cars??? SO guess what - premium proces for replacement batteries.
Oh and watch out after you have any significant accident (fender bender) as the batteries are often damaged and have much higher likelihood of malfunctioning (often resulting in a catastrophic fire)
That year by year (like withing just a few), for the cars they already have sold, there will have to be battery replacements. These batteries do degrade, losing that touted milage quoted for these things with such fanfare. And with any extreme environment (like below freezing and summers over 90 degrees) the batteries degrade much-much faster, so those distances people thought they would get, suddenly dwindles down requiring new batteries or changing to a more conventional technology.
They say that people who buy these electric cars USED, better be ready to have to replace the wornout batteries, which adds upto an outlay of an an appreciable percentage of the original price. (Tesla cant get enough batteries made for their NEW cars??? SO guess what - premium prices for any replacement batteries.)
Oh, and watch out after you have any significant accident (even just a fender bender), as the batteries are often damaged and have much higher likelihood of malfunctioning (often resulting in a catastrophic fire)
This whole discussion on electric cars reminds me of digital cameras when they first came out. People act as if no technology ever improved over time. The first cameras were about 320 x 240 or so. Film purists were laughing. In order to get the same resolution as 35 mm film, you would need 5 MEGAPIXELS!!! which considering cameras were barely .1 Megapixels seemed purely ridiculous. No way is digital going to replace film! Of course the camera resolution doubled year after year and now digital cameras are ubiquitous and film is almost extinct.
EV batteries will get cheaper and more powerful over time. Range will go up, vehicle prices will go down. Economies of scale and technological progress will see to that. As they get cheaper and better, they will make more sense to more people. People who might not buy a $40k car with a 120 mile range may well buy a $25k car with a 200 mile range.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
I have a Leaf, there is no radiator of any kind. Heat comes from resistance (pre 2013) or heat pump (2013 and beyond).
Total scheduled maintenance is tire rotation and wiper replacement. Checking brake pads is also recommended but not likely that they will need replacement until well beyond my 3 year lease. Replacing brake fluid is recommended in harsh environments but again, not in 3 years.
That's it.
And I think that pisses off the dealers because they still mail me postcards reminding me to bring it in for service.
"Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option."
You'd be willing to drop $90k on a car, and aren't willing to rent a few times a year? Couldn't be more than $1500 or so, and there are more charging stations all the time so in a year or two you might not need to rent at all. I'd like a Tesla, but I'm not willing to buy a car that expensive.
The only question left will be mainstream acceptance??
No, the only question left will be economic. Cars costing > $ 70,000 are not for middle income families. Middle (and low) income families make up the vast majority of the U.S. population.
Tesla offers unique differentiators in their product that may or may not be superior to competitor technologies but command a premium price - not unlike many Apple products.
Loaded out Lenovo or HP laptop? low to mid $1000 range. Comparable specs on a 15" Retina MacBook Pro? Mid $2000's. Differentiators - OSX, higher resolution IPS display, gorgeous unibody aluminum construction, tighter ecosystem between computer & mobile device, unparalleled retail sales & support experience through apple stores, SSD faster than spinny hard drive, better battery life. I unashamedly own one. I occasionally ask myself why.
The $1300 Lenovo with 16gb ram, Nvidia 750 discreet video, quad core i7 cpu, and Windows 8.1 will do everything you need in a laptop and 5x more. You just aren't getting those rMBP differentiators. If they are worth an additional $1000, go for it.
A completely loaded Chevy Malibu gets you a four door sedan with turbocharged engine, full leather interior and tons of options for under $31,000. It will comfortably carry you back and forth to work for less than half the cost of the Tesla, it has more than twice the range, refilling it with energy takes five minutes, and while it is using petrochemical fuel, the Teslas - lets not kid ourselves here - are using electricity overwhelmingly generated by dirty coal fired electric plants.
No one is pretending the Lenovo Y510P laptop is a loaded rMBP, or the Chevy Malibu is the equivalent of a Tesla Model S. But the point is this - the high end Apple laptop & 27" desktop products, along with Tesla's vehicles, are - so long as they occupy their current pricing strata - going to be luxury items that a very narrow percentage of the U.S. market can afford. They will accordingly occupy a small percentage of market share.
Apple and Tesla are both destined to exist as luxury brands that will always be around, always appeal to a certain well-heeled discriminating consumer, but are fated to occupy very narrow market share. Like Rolex, Gucci, Coach hand bags, those red-soled Louboutin heels your wife / girlfriend / both have had their eyes on - they are priced outside the realm of sanity for all but enthusiasts, the foolhardy, or the very well heeled.
If Elon can scale manufacturing to produce a vehicle similar to the Nissan Leaf, improve range to 200+ miles between charges, ++ plus the quality and options a little, and get the price down into the $25-35k range while still making an acceptable profit, Tesla might have something to talk about. Until such time, Teslas sales are going to exist in a range that to companies like Ford, GM, and whatever Chrysler/Fiat is calling themselves this week - is a rounding error on just one of their models' annual sales.
Tesla sold 20some thousands Model S sedans last year? Ford sold, on average, over 50,000 F-150 pickups PER MONTH in 2013. ONE manufacturer. ONE MODEL.
I love Tesla, I admire Elon, but the numbers are just wrong for most of America.
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
"the only question left will be market acceptance of a mainstream electric car"
No mention of the $70,000 price tag? It's certainly the most important question to me.
Insert witty comment here.
If Tesla can remove the battery production bottle neck it's currently facing, the only question left will be market acceptance of a mainstream electric car.
LOL. That is just funny. The Model S has won more awards than any other car. Likewise, it has nearly all reviewers raving about it. There are only a few ppl that have driven it and do not like it.
Now, they are producing at a rate of 30K cars / year, have a waiting list of 3 months in the few states that have showrooms, 3-6 months in parts Europe, and that is with less than 1/10 of the world population.
It is considered by nearly all that it is a better car that any below $150K.
In fact, it has sold more than any car in its category for any state/nation that it sells at.
And you wonder if it will have market acceptance of a mainstream electric car?
Hell boy, it has market acceptance of ANY ICE car.
The real question is, what will the major car makers do when Tesla is ready to introduce their highly sought after Model E at a price of $35K? My guess is that they will all scream that they can not compete.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Well, frequently they do.
In this case, they just regurgitated what Tesla told them in June. Here we are, past the promised date of end of 2013, and still no battery swap stations. Sorry. You can post as many mid-2013 PR, er, news links from super-truthy news sources as you like, there are still no battery swap stations.
Diy using American Made Batteries Not Chinese JUNK Woopie!
I would like too see After market Battery sales to builders of Cars mopeds and motorized bicycles.
A Universal connector to quick charge any vehicle .
I will pay for this.
I thought they used 18650 batteries, which are definitely not "Electric car batteries."
....that electric cars remain a novelty for the rich, and solve no real problems yet since adoption is low. Adoption will continue to be low until the major pressing concerns of range, charging infrastructure and ridiculous price point are addressed.
> No flammable liquid fuel
No, just flammable batteries.
Www.soylentnews.org
"last year Tesla used a bit more than one-third of the auto industry's electric-car batteries, and that was with only selling 22,477 cars. "
Also, I just looked it up and it looks like in the US, last year, sold about 15.6 million new cars in 2013.
From what I understand each one of these gets a single battery in general. So that is 15.6 million batteries, by the conventional guys.
Now in addition to that Tesla apparently used half again (aka 1/3 of both combined). => 7.8 million batteries.
And that is in only 22,477 cars.
So now we can answer the question of how many batteries a Tesla car uses.
7.8 million / 22,477 = about 350 per car.
I think, I might just of figured out why so many of these cars are catching on fire.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
. The biggest question I have is, will there be a STANDARD connector for quick charging batteries so that after driving 200 miles, can we re-charge the batteries in a few minutes no matter what brand of car we're driving?
Why do people keep harping on this? This was the top rated comment last time a Tesla was mentions as well. Is it really that hard to go to Tesla's website and click on "charging"? The Tesla comes with a couple of standard plugs, including the common SAE plug. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The standard plugs it comes with include a 110/120V plug, and a plug or two for 220/240V outlets; they sell about 2-3 dozen other plugs on their website. If you're visiting a friend and they have an electric dryer plug near the garage - that's more than enough juice to top it up while you're all asleep, and since the car tracks how much energy it used charging, it's easy enough to compensate your host in some way. It's about $10, maybe $15 in electricity for a full 80kW charge, by my rough math.
So, probably the best investment a Tesla owner who visits people a lot can make...is in a 220/240V extension cable. Looks like you can get 'em on Amazon for about $2/foot; Home Depot certainly carries them as well.
Please help metamoderate.
what's the material that's used in batteries? lithium. how much lithium is there on the planet? not enough. this is the problem that's being swept under the carpet. we already have high prices on copper, as it's already in short supply due to its prevalence in electronics. the quantities required of neodymium (for the magnets in the motors), copper (for the moving coils in the motors) and lithium (for the batteries) to push around 2 tonnes of metal is basically... insane. there's not enough available on the planet. something has to give.
www.teslamotors.com/blog/gigafactory
Mainstream acceptance implies the car will actually be affordable to the average car buyer at some point in the future. According to a quick Google search, that's $31,252. The question is, can they really shave enough off the cost of batteries (keep in mind a lithium battery is made from materials that must be mined and processed, it's not really about recouping R&D at this point) and still turn a profit at that price?
Or, maybe if they're implying I can use a cryptocoin generator and convince Elon Musk my OMGPoniesCoins are worth at least three Model S cars. Yeah, that's the kind of "mainstream acceptance" I'm down for.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
No, a 'gigafactory' is 2^30 times bigger than a typical Detroit automobile factory.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It's like a 5th grader is posting these articles...
no. watts are not a unit of energy storage. guess again.
Starting a brand new automobile company anywhere, much less in America, is so difficult that it really should be seen as a miracle
Yes, every industry has "barriers to entry." But what makes this a miracle-cubed is that Mr. Musk has overcome those barriers in multiple industries: autos (Tesla), financial services (PayPal), energy (Solar City), and even radically-cost-effective spaceships (SpaceX).
You have to admit, he has an amazing ability to knock down barriers to entry!
That that is is that that that that is not is not.