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Using Handheld Phone GPS While Driving Is Legal In California
jfruh writes "Steven R. Spriggs was ticketed and fined $165 for violating California's law on cell phone use while operating a motor vehicle, which states that you can only use a phone while driving if you have a hands-free device. But he appealed the judgement, arguing that the law only applied to actually talking on the phone, whereas he had been caught checking his GPS app. Now an appeals court has agreed with him. The law in question was enacted in 2006, before the smartphone boom."
No reason why a windshield or dash mount cant be required for using the phone as a gps.
kinda off-topic but: the article reminded me to find an Android app that allows me to save waypoints and that will display longitude, latitude and altitude. Or maybe I should buy a real GPS receiver.
I think that a smartphone mount should be mandatory so that the device isn't in your hand. Texting and driving is a huge safety issue, and I'd imaging that screwing around with a GPS (entering text) is similarly dangerous. It's unfortunate that the court isn't willing to uphold the spirit of the law here.
If he was only pulled over because the officer observed him using an electronic device then the driver was correct. If he was pulled over for dangerous or reckless driving while using a device then the office wrote him the wrong ticket.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Looking at the screen and interacting with it is obviously safer than holding the phone to your ear and talking to someone. Don't be an idiot. You're operating a two ton machine at speed. Keep your eyes on the road.
Steven R. Spriggs, the appellant, held his mobile phone in his hand to use the mapping application to find his way around the congestion when STOPPED in heavy traffic
This person was not moving at the time. On top of that, if the phone had been a Garmin GPS instead of a phone the ticket would never have been issued even though the user would have been using both devices in the same way.
This kind of stuff is just stupid.
Arguably, simply holding your phone to your ear and talking on it is a lot less distracting than LOOKING at the phone and tapping to find map directions.
Why is the former illegal, while the latter is okay? Either make them both illegal, or make it okay to *talk* on the phone as well.
speaking as an angelino, using a cellphone in los angeles is arbitrarily legal depending on class and social status. Are you a police officer? Do you have diplomatic plates? were you Justin Bieber? then rev up those angry birds on the 101 and get ready to snapchat your next novel.
if you're one of the unwashed masses then be prepared for an almost entirely random enforcement experience. is today a warning day? or is it our legendary MANDATORY ENFORCEMENT ZONE policy where you'll be fined no matter what. Did you use your cellphone at a red light in a school zone? double fine. Was there construction? double fine. Did you just rear-end someone while on a cellphone? that piece of technology will never be considered in the accident report and is as good as having never happened.
dont get me wrong. im not here to defend cell usage in a moving vehicle but there is nothing about LA that precludes you from setting your 4-ways, pulling over, checking the phone, and safely entering traffic again. Or hell, plan the route before you get in the car. The trouble i find is the LAPD is like a magic 8-ball when it comes to enforcing this law. if you can make it to court, if you have the money and the time, then 60% of the time you'll get out of it every time.
Good people go to bed earlier.
This kind of stuff is just stupid.
That's lawyers for you...
One law saying "don't drive like an ass" should be good enough, but nooooooo, we're lawyers.
(I know, I know... there are asses with far more road sense than many drivers around here... )
No sig today...
I actually preferred the wording in SB 28 that was introduced in 2006. It not only made it illegal to text while driving, but the wording covered anything that took a significant portion of your attention from driving. This includes doing your makeup, shaving, eating. It got vetoed. Likely because the wording was a bit too broad and open to interpretation.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
California cop: Hafta make my quota...hafta make my quota... Hey you! Is that a phone?
Driver 1: No, it's a handheld GPS device.
Cop: Oh. Hey you over there! Is that a phone?
Driver 2: No, it's a handheld navigation system.
Cop: Oh. Hey, you, is that a phone?
Driver 3: No, it's a handheld telescoping built-in pleasure device.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Stop and go traffic is among the most accident prone situations.
This might be true. But accidents are not all equal. You are MUCH more likely to die
or seriously injure someone while driving at high speed than in slow stop and go traffic
because of both the speed of collision as well as reaction time.
They are still around but soon they will be no more. You will have to subscribe to a cellphone service and have a connection (lots of luck in rural areas). There is nav systems built into cars that contains maps in memory (but have to pay I heard a few hundreds every year to upgrade). Call me a luddite but I liked the Thomas Guides (map page and grid). Unlike large foldout maps, these are like a book. With paper maps I can quickly look at general spot of my destination, then do an overview on how to get there, then zoom in with my eyes to see specifics and cross streets. But the Thomas Guides are now out of print, I heard new versions are all screwed up.
These days you address by GPS coordinates (great for flying a helicopter or firing a cruise missile) but give me an address. These car nav systems are kind of dumb if you ask me. Ok so you key in the address and it will speak specific directions. But geez I don't want it to say, "turn on El Camino, drive 1.73 miles, turn right to enter hwy 85. turn left to 280, turn. " I know how to get on freeway to SF, it is the specific address in the big city I am interested in seeking.
I don't like using maps such as http://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/ on smartphones, screen too small to see detail unless I zoom in but then lose the overview.
mfwright@batnet.com
This person was not moving at the time. On top of that, if the phone had been a Garmin GPS instead of a phone the ticket would never have been issued even though the user would have been using both devices in the same way.
I think that's giving more credit to the cop than is deserved. As you said, the guy was stopped. The cop is already ignoring the spirit of the law. I doubt the cop would pay attention to the specific lettering of the law which would draw a distinction between GPS only and cell phones.
Here's the full text of the opinion: http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/F066927.PDF
geek. lawyer.
Cops behaving badly? Huh...
This could easily be remedied by programming the car's computer to unlock the GPS (assuming manufacturer installed) whenever the passenger airbag sensor in the seat indicates someone is sitting in it. Its not fool-proof but it would work in your scenario.
it is not illegal to have a windshield mounted GPS provided:
per CA Vehicle Code 26708 (a)(12)
A portable Global Positioning System (GPS), which may be mounted in a seven-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield farthest removed from the driver or in a five-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield nearest to the driver and outside of an airbag deployment zone, if the system is used only for door-to-door navigation while the motor vehicle is being operated.
its stupid, but there is a lot of confusion about this by both LEOs and drivers.
Correction:
You are much more likely to die if you hit MY car in stop-and-go traffic.
Heres an idea, make it illegal to hold or manipulate *ANYTHING* with either of your hands that is not actually part of the vehicle (ie, headlights, signal lights, gear shift are all okay), while the vehicle is in motion.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
All the ruling says is that particular law does not apply to smart phones displaying maps. It says nothing about the law that deals with devices that can display video and do not have a vehicle interlock. The driver was just charged with the incorrect offence.
The danger of inattention, though, is linked to the speed of the vehicle. No movement, no extra danger. A stopped car is a stopped car whether the driver is checking his mirrors every second or asleep. If the situation changes and he doesn't notice that he can become un-stopped, I'm sure the drivers around him will be sure to let him know, but until then, his behavior does not affect anyone's danger level.
I think that's giving more credit to the cop than is deserved. As you said, the guy was stopped. The cop is already ignoring the spirit of the law. I doubt the cop would pay attention to the specific lettering of the law which would draw a distinction between GPS only and cell phones.
Had the motorist spent 10 bucks for a generic window mount, there would't have been an issue.
However, the judges ruling doesn't specify that you can mess with your phone if stopped, it just says you can mess with your phone as long as you are not "listening and talking" on the phone other than hands free .
Now the law has to be amended, to make it clear that you can't be fiddling with a phone while driving, and that includes while stopped at lights
or in heavy traffic. Because as it stands, playing Angry Birds, or watching porn is ok.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Don't care if its a 'real' gps, phone, radio or just looking at your passenger's tits. If you take your eyes of the road for any amount of time at all you *are* distracted, and a hazard to others.
Tragedy can happen in a liberal blink of an eye at road speeds, if you are not looking at what is going on around you, it can happen before you even know it was going to.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
At least he was engaged in the act of driving, which includes both navigation and piloting.
I see way too many drivers doing something other than driving while driving, beyond just texting or chatting on their phones. I've seen people applying makeup, shaving, eating with two hands, and even reading a book.
Even with a handsfree device, holding a conversation is a distraction from driving.
I can see the fnords!
people would quickly learn to drive around with a bag of potatoes.
Driving while lost can also be insanely dangerous. I'd prefer people check their GPS to know when to start moving over to exit a freeway or know which lane to be in rather than reacting at the last minute when signage alerts them.
It's certainly safer than navigating using a paper map.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
A friend of mine was ticketed a few months ago for checking the map on her cell phone while she was stopped at a red light. Some things are just absurd.
Everyone pulled over for a phone violation has an out, and with Google lobbying to make sure their Glass isn't targetted what becomes of public road safety?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
You are MUCH more likely to dieor seriously injure someone while driving at high speed than in slow stop and go traffic
This doesn't invalidate your point, but most motorcycle deaths occur on 60 km/h roads
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds -- Albert Einstein
But don't we feel so much better criminalizing the touching of a phone and getting $161 for the general slush fund? Aren't the streets generally safer? A driver can pay attention to his legal paper map, or the change the radio dial, or glance away at the speedometer, or the looking in the rearview mirror --- or the billboards ---or the business signs... But wait! Let's get some new laws on these too. Any deviation from keeping your eyes on the road could be criminalized and more importantly, capitalized. Imagine the possibilities. Stopped two ton machines operating at a speed of zero are so dangerous
Stop and go traffic is among the most accident prone situations.
This might be true. But accidents are not all equal. You are MUCH more likely to die
or seriously injure someone while driving at high speed than in slow stop and go traffic
because of both the speed of collision as well as reaction time.
This is true.
But fixing a polyurethane bumper because Dopey Doris was too busy on their phone to notice traffic had stopped (or to keep her foot on the brake pedal) is an expensive PITA.
There are a lot of stupid drivers out there with no insurance and even if your insurance covers you at no cost you still lose your car for 3 or so days (if you want the job done properly).
So you're not likely to die from a little shunt in peak hour traffic, but that doesn't make it OK.
If you're in the car, you're off the phone. I live in WA (Western Australia) and the rules here are clear, you can only touch the phone if you're parked.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.