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NASA Wants To Go To Europa
MightyMartian writes "'NASA and the White House are asking Congress to bankroll a new intrastellar road trip to a destination that's sort of like the extraterrestrial Atlantis of our solar system — Jupiter's intriguing moon, Europa.' Since Europa seems one of the most likely worlds in the Solar System other than Earth where we have some hope of finding extant life, let's hope Congress gives the green light to this project."
"All These Worlds Are Yours Except Europa. Attempt No Landing There. Use Them Together. Use Them in Peace."
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Sounds hot!
Ezekiel 23:20
It would seem foolish to me to launch a big expensive search for life anywhere without first scouting the place with a small, cheap probe.
At worst a waste of multi billion dollars when it could be spent on other more fruitful missions.
Here's another idea: why don't we fork science?
One half of science we let believe that there is life on Europa.
The other half of science we let believe that there isn't.
Both halves can proceed with their work, without spending even a dollar!
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
the fact that water if regularly venting to the surface means that there are likely very thin areas of ice that can be utilised. Even on our planet life exists in very, VERY hot water that until recently we thought that life had no chance there. NASA had spent billions of dollars sending landers to Mars, a dusty boring planet. Once ok. Over and over.... a compete wase of money. Europa = a good chance we could actually find real living life. Way move exciting than Mars could ever be.
"the fact that water if regularly venting to the surface means that there are likely very thin areas of ice that can be utilised."
Unlikely. Its nothing more than melt water from fairly shallow movements in the ice. It certainly won't be anything recent from the deep ocean. The ice may well turn over in geological time but by then any life inside will have long since decomposed into amino acids or whatever precursor its made from. And thats not going to tell us much about whats down there.
While exploring space is many people's dream. The cost is enormous and the US has so much debt now, should we really be investing in our dreams
vs repairing roads and bridges?
O RLY? http://costsmorethanspace.tumb...
The mentality of these sort of people is that they will automatically and unquestioningly reject anything that does not fit their world view.
This is exactly what they say about liberals/Democrats. Both sides think the other side is stupid, ignorant, and/or crazy.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
We have a mission.
Then another one that lands and tries some new water fueling technology whatever it may be: for fuel cells and hydrogen fuel or something.
Then it's developed further so not only is Europa a moon for exploration but also a fueling stop.
And I also dream of the day when we can say that we can't go to war because of budget issues: we got a space mission on after all!
And I wish for the day when people bitch and moan about military spending and saying, "Look! The Chinese and Russians are WAY ahead of us in space exploration! WTF do we need another fucking aircraft carrier! We need another rocket!!"
But I am crazy and stupid.
The mentality of these sort of people is that they will automatically and unquestioningly reject anything that does not fit their world view.
This is exactly what they say about liberals/Democrats. Both sides think the other side is stupid, ignorant, and/or crazy.
And they're both right!
This is exactly what they say about liberals/Democrats. Both sides think the other side is stupid, ignorant, and/or crazy.
And they both are.
Ground breaking, paradigm shifting revolutions in science are rarely in applied research, it's in basic research. And likewise, space exploration has rather few immediate gains, but the needs of space exploration often lead to other discoveries that have very earthly applications. When you look at the early space programs, up to and including the moon shot, it sure gave us paradigm changes and developments we would not have seen without. From "hard" science, like electronics, computers and safety to "soft" science in the fields of organization and process analysis and optimization. These things were a necessity for the space programs but they also led to development and a boost to these other fields that we now take for granted but would most certainly not be even close to where we are today without the needs of a space program.
My pet example in this context is lasers. The theory behind them was developed as early as the 1920s. It took until the 1960s for a laser to become reality. Only in 1980 it became economically feasible. But our modern economy, especially our entertainment industry, could not even consider existing without it. That's certainly not what the inventor had in mind, but that's where it is used today, with great success. Who can predict what great developments and discoveries could come out of the obstacles faced by this project? I'd say we could easily end up with revolutionary discoveries in the fields of metallurgy, superconductivity, generation/transfer/storage of electrical energy, information transport, imaging along with a better and more efficient handling of process organization and management.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
> If they're expecting to find some trace of life in some trace of water vapour that may or may not have been ejected near where the probe lands in the few days before any DNA or proteins would be destroyed by the hard vacuum and radiation then I think its wishful thinking at best.
Even if any DNA in this water would break down, an analysis of the water vapor would refine our models (and could confirm or exclude the presence of complex organic compounds, within or underneath the ice).
> At worst a waste of multi billion dollars when it could be spent on other more fruitful missions.
Your argument is biased towards the worst scenario. (at worst, _every mission_ is "a waste of multi billion dollars when it could be spent on more fruitful missions").
> Another probe to Titan that could travel around and examine the lakes and atmosphere would be far more worth while.
Obviously, the people planning the mission budget of NASA have a different definition of worthwhile than you (otherwise they would allocate all the budget on another probe to Titan).
Tie two birds together: although they have four wings, they cannot fly. (The blind man)
Initially, going to Europa indeed was a joint project between NASA and Europe's ESA, named EJSM ( Europa Jupiter System Mission):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...
Then a couple of years ago ESA announced that any talks with NASA being unconclusive (not bringing commitment), Europe would move alone; the mission was simplified, now called Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer (JUICE), fully European-funded, and scheduled for 2020.
It *is* developing right now.
IMHO there is still room for cooperating here.
Herve S.
"I think we are settling for exploring close planets just because we have no technology to go to where we actually do believe life could survive."
You can't expect to successfully run a marathon on Saturday after if you haven't run a single mile in the past decade. Each step in exploration requires a previous step of smaller magnitude. Often it's the things we're not looking for when we explore that allow us to go further or explore deeper in future missions.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
This is like taking a vacation to the big ball of twine vs Disney Land because you can't afford it.
That is a terrible analogy. By comparing space exploration to vacation you are suggesting that the science has no value other than to satisfy someone's curiosity, which is simply not true.
A better analogy: Going to Europa is like a manufacturing company investing in a robotic production machine. It costs a lot and takes a considerable amount of skill to setup and use, but once it's going the payoff is enormous.
We should be taking money from other things and putting them into the space program. We need these investments. See: http://www.investopedia.com/fi...
I wonder if its possible for America to fix this horrible "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality. There seems to be no concept of a middle ground, no grey. Everything is either black or white. How did it end up like this?
"The space elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing." - Arthur C. Clarke ~1980
Maybe it would help if they offered to takeCongress along with them for the ride. While they are at it there is no reason to leave the whitehouse out. They can even save some fuel by not bringing them back!
What NASA Headquarters is proposing is not a mission, it's a recipe for failure. They want to spend no more than $1 billion on a mission we planetary scientists have told them costs $2 billion.
Suppose you're planning a trip for two to New Zealand. You've got the budget all worked out: airfare costs about half of the total, even during the off-season, and you're skimping on hotels and meals and skipping the helicopter tour to save money. Then your spouse comes along and says you can only spend half as much. You can't make the plane tickets any cheaper, so unless you consider sleeping in the Auckland airport a vacation, she's saying you're not going to New Zealand at all.
It costs a billion dollars to send a bucket of bricks to Europa. Doing science once you get there is extra.
Yes! If we got rid of NASA altogether, think of all the infrastructure we could build....
Why, the annual savings would be enough for most of one tunnel!
Wrong....just plain wrong. Why is innumeracy so prevalent now? Are numbers really that hard? The $17 billion Nasa will get in 2014 is peanuts compared the rest of the federal budget.
Yet another slashdotter who thinks for two minutes and is somehow certain he understands the issue better than "those idiots" doing the actual work.
He should run for Congress then.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I thought it said EUROPE.
eruopA makes so much more sense